In this episode of Based Camp, Simone and Malcolm Collins dive into the viral meme: “I’m just a normal person from 1995.” They explore how mainstream 1990s views — including those from Bill and Hillary Clinton on immigration, welfare reform, and borders — are now branded as “far-right extremism.”

Using data from Cremieux’s Substack analysis of the General Social Survey, Pew Research polarization graphs, and cultural shifts, they discuss the leftward drift on race, gender, sexuality, institutions, and more. They argue that what was once normal (family values, personal responsibility, evidence-based thinking) is now demonized, while the modern Right has become the side of data, science, realism, and genuine societal progress.

Topics include: the Overton window shift, trans issues and science, immigration realities, political tolerance, why many 1990s Democrats would be “MAGA” today, and the divorce between “progressivism” and actual improvement. Plus lighter moments on Hunter Biden, AI waifus, and mashed potatoes.

Show Notes

To set the scene, here are some quotes:

* From our xenophobic, far-right president, saying: “I want to talk with you about the problem of illegal immigration. It’s a problem our administration inherited, and it’s a very serious one. It costs the taxpayers of the United States a lot of money, and it’s unfair to Americans who are working every day to pay their own bills... Our immigration policy is focused in four areas: first, strengthening border control; second, protecting American jobs by enforcing laws against illegal immigrants at the workplace; third, deporting criminal and deportable aliens; fourth, giving assistance to States who need it and denying illegal aliens benefits for public services or welfare.”

* Or this from our capitalistic first lady, advocating for a “welfare reform plan that will dramatically change the nation’s welfare system into one that requires work in exchange for time-limited assistance.”

What do they all have in common? They come from left-leaning public figures in the 1990s.

* Bill Clinton

* Hillary Clinton

The Rabbit Hole on X posted “Far right is often just a propaganda term for normal person” alongside a cartoon of a woman and man in a car, with the woman saying: “Why are you so far right politically” and the man saying “I’m just a normal person from 1995.”

Andy Hatfield posted another meme that reads: “Recognize the warning signs of a far-right extremist:

* Full time employment

* Literacy

* Loves his family and country

* Common sense

* Obeys the law”

Inspired by the meme, Cremieux wrote A Normal Person 30 Years Ago A normal guy in 1995 probably believes a lot of things that are unacceptable now on Substack and his post about it—plus the resulting discourse—became a trending topic du jour on X.

Cremieux’s Observations

In his Substack article, Cremieux broke from the sentiment-based memes and looked at the data.

“I opened up the General Social Survey and had a look around. To get started, I defined a few sets of political views: Institutional Confidence, Criminal Justice & Guns, Political Tolerance, Economic/Pro-Government, Racial Liberalism/Civil Rights, Gender-Role Egalitarianism, and Sexual & Moral Liberalism, and then I outlined a set of important social views.”

The data shows that:

* “People have become less confident in America’s institutions over time.”

* “When it comes to criminal justice and firearms, more people think courts are too harsh on criminals, more people oppose the death penalty, and fewer people think we ought to requires permits to buy guns. The last of these didn’t change that much.”

* “Political tolerance has somewhat increased since the 1970s, but it’s somewhat down since the 1990s. This general trend masks something interesting: more acceptance of gays and atheists, less acceptance of racists and militarists.”

* “Movement on economically left-wing views has been generally pretty flat, which is roughly what we also see for economically right-wing views.”

* “When it comes to racial liberalism, people have shifted far to the left. People have become more likely to ascribe Black-White gaps to discrimination and less to a lack of effort, among other things.”

* “When it comes to gender roles, egalitarianism has greatly increased.”

* Diana Fleischman recently made an interesting observation on that front vis a vis male postpartum depression

* “Finally, when it comes to sexual and moral liberalism, views on sex education, divorce, marijuana legality, and so on have, in some cases, quite radically shifted towards left-ward positions. Abortion legality for serious defects is the only exception among the bunch.”

He concludes that “the nation has moved considerably, but not overwhelmingly, to the left.”

His editorialization is thoughtful: “What can we say about the normal person from 1995? In many ways, he was much like us. In other ways, he was what most people would now regard as kind of a dick. He didn’t like interracial marriage and he wasn’t too keen on gays either. These social views aren’t alone: plenty of things now considered taboo were, at the time, wholly acceptable, even in polite society, and sometimes these were the majority view.

Right or wrong, I don’t think appealing to normal people in the world 30 years ago is likely to make many friends after realizing the sorts of things people used to believe.”

I largely agree but also think he is not extrapolating sufficiently from the data. “Let a racist speak” has gone down in the General Social Survey, but also the definition of “racist” has changed significantly, from something that is, we would argue, blatantly racist, to someone who, for example, believes genes dictate skin color and other traits.

In short, I think he was looking at the wrong thing to measure change.

Additional Observations Shared on X

NC Phycicist observed that “Pew Research illustrates this nicely. What the left calls the “far right” is just the left moving further left.” sharing a pretty illustrative graph showing diverging median democrats and median republicans in 1994 vs 2017:

HF responded that: “Society always changes and moves on. By definition, a progressive (someone on the left) is either ahead of, or keeping up with those changes. A conservative (someone on the right) wants things to stay the same and not change.

Society always changes and moves on. By definition, a progressive (someone on the left) is either ahead of, or keeping up with those changes. A conservative (someone on the right) wants things to stay the same and not change.”

But Charles Pontificates pointed out that “It’s mostly leftists who want deindustrialization and the stagnation of energy production, and that’s hardly progress.” sharing a graph of electricity and income per capita that makes it clear there’s no such thing as a low-energy rich country.

People also tried to make slippery slope arguments:

* Rikki Schlott: “How far do we wanna go back on this one though? I’m just a normal guy from 1960? From 1850?”

* Posterior Malone: “Yeah it’s certainly true to some degree, but 30 years is a very long time…imagine saying in 1995: ‘I’m not far right, I’m just a normal person from 1965’”

* Martin Stepan: “I’m just a normal person from 1895.”

There’s some pondering to be done about progress and time fixing everything versus toxic ideologies spreading.

Episode Transcript

Simone Collins: [00:00:00] Hello, Malcolm. I’m excited to be speaking with you today. I want to set the scene with some quotes. Let’s start with one from our xenophobic far-right president saying, “I wanna talk with you about the problem of illegal immigration.

It’s a problem our administration inherited and it’s a very serious one. It costs the taxpayers of the United States a lot of money, and it’s unfair to Americans who are working every day to pay their own bills. Our immigration policy is focused on four areas. First, strengthening border control. Second, protecting American jobs by enforcing laws against illegal immigrants at the workplace.

Third, deporting criminal and dep- deportable Americans. Fourth, giving assistance to the states who need it in denying illegal aliens benefits for the public services or welfare.” And then here’s, and just another one from our capitalistic first lady advocating for, “A welfare reform plan that will dramatically change the nation’s welfare system into one that [00:01:00] requires work in exchange for time-limited assistance.”

Oh, but crap. I used the wrong accents ‘cause, because I was actually quoting our different president and first lady from the 1990s, Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton. And that’s kind of the whole thing that’s been bubbling up on X recently. I think

Malcolm Collins: we saw this meme that’s like, “I’m just a normal- Yeah, the, the-

person from 1990” Yeah, the, the

Simone Collins: Rabbit Hole on X specifically posted this on X. Far right is just often a propaganda term for normal sent alongside a cartoon of a woman and man in a car with this woman saying, “Why are you so far right politically?” And the man saying, “I’m just a normal person from 1995.”

Speaker: We’re just normal men What do you mean normal men? We’re just innocent men. Eh?

Simone Collins: And Andy Hatfield also posted another meme under that that, that reads, “Recognize the warning signs of a far right extremist. Full-time employment, literacy, [00:02:00] loves his family and country, common sense, and obeys the law.” And,

Malcolm Collins: There, there was actually videos that were put together at one point.

Oh,

Simone Collins: really?

Malcolm Collins: I’m probably gonna be too lazy to look for them.

Speaker 3: Your son is not just lifting weights. He’s lifting the crushing weight of toxic masculinity. This is not fitness. It’s a silent scream for self-worth.

Malcolm Collins: But this became a thing where they were leftists- We’re creating warning signs if your son was being radicalized by the far right.

Simone Collins: Oh, are you serious? Like, that this is drifting off the thing? And it was stuff

Malcolm Collins: like... Yeah, it was stuff like, “Has he been working out more recently?

Has he started cleaning his room more?

Malcolm Collins: Has he-” Oh,

Simone Collins: no. No, no, no, no. No.

Malcolm Collins: I- I- yeah, no, actually it was like, “Has he started consuming less pornography? Has he started-”

Simone Collins: You’ve got to be kidding me ...

Malcolm Collins: Has he started playing less video games and working more? He might be being- No ... radicalized by the far right.” Oh, my God. Has he started... No, another thing that was cited was, like eating [00:03:00] healthy.

Like that was a, a warning sign. Like,

Simone Collins: I did... Oh.

Malcolm Collins: No, but the irony is, is that these are all actually pretty good warning signs-

Simone Collins: They are, they are legit good warning

Malcolm Collins: signs ... that a young man is being radicalized by the far right, right? You know. Oh, my God, Malcolm. He, he, they, if I, if I was a leftist and I saw my kid start exercising, I’d be like- No,

Simone Collins: then you know.

That’s how you know. It’s true. It’s, it’s actually true. That is, that is the funny part. Anyway though, Cremieux, who we love to follow think he’s a cool guy- just saw this post and decided to write a Substack article. He, in this, he broke from the sentiment-based memes around this subject and looked at the data.

Per his article, quote, “I opened up the general social survey and had a look around. To get started, I defined a few sets of political views: institutional confidence, criminal justice and guns, political tolerance, economic, pro-government, radical liberalism/civil rights, gender role egalitarianism, and sexual and moral liberalism,” and then I outlined a set of important soc- [00:04:00] social views.

I sent you, Malcolm, the graphs. I’m gonna put all the graphs and I’m gonna link to everything I’m talking about in the show notes for this on Patreon and Substack. But this is what he generally shows.

Malcolm Collins: I love Cremieux. He’s like a meme. A b- a friend of ours, by the way. I love him. You know, follow him on X.

A great, great right-wing tweeter. And he’s like, “Let’s break down the data. Let’s, let’s-” Yeah. Let’s look at

Simone Collins: it. But also, you know, his take is gonna be different from what I think a lot of people, even when you look at the discourse on X, ‘cause this ended up as one of sort of the trending topics that got surfaced as something on X, I think even just this morning as, as our time of recording.

What a lot of people assumed he was gonna be saying is not actually the conclusion that he reached after looking at the data, and I actually think he, he was missing important things in terms of the data he looked at. But anyway. Oh,

Malcolm Collins: oh, ooh.

Simone Collins: So the data shows that, and I’m just gonna quote his findings vis-a-vis all these things, but you, it’s better for you to look at the graphs, I think.

They, they really help to sort of hammer it home. And again, just go to Patreon and Substack. The data [00:05:00] shows that, quote, “People have become less comf-” Oh, my God, the screaming. quote, “

People have become less confident in America’s institutions over time. When it comes to criminal justice and firearms, people think courts are too harsh on criminals.

More people oppose the death penalty, and fewer people think they ought to require, Wait, and fewer people think we ought to require permits to buy guns. The last of these three didn’t change that much. Political tolerance has somewhat increased since the 1970s, but it’s somewhat down since the 1990s.

This general trend masks something interesting. More acceptance of gays and atheists, less acceptance of racists and militarists. Movement on economically left-wing views have been generally pretty flat, which is roughly what we see economically for right-wing views. And when it comes to racial liberalism, people have shifted far to the left.

People have become more likely to ascribe Black-white gaps to discrimination and less to a lack of effort, [00:06:00] among other things. And when it comes to gender roles, egalitarianism has greatly increased.” On this front, by the way our friend Diana Fleischman on X shared an interesting comment vis-a-vis this article that came out on, On postpartum depression for dads.

Specifically like a lot of people on X were like, “Oh, dads can’t have postpartum depression.” Like, that’s super screwed up, and like sort of gatekeeping around postpartum depression. And what she observed, and I think this is actually really astute, is that probably there’s a rise in postpartum depression specifically because while women have this sort of insane hormonal thing they go through-

Malcolm Collins: Yeah

Simone Collins: when babies are born, that, and I’ve, I’ve witnessed this, like actually makes them pretty tolerant of all the sleep deprivation and not super stressed about getting... ‘Cause I was super phobic about waking up in the middle of the night, for example before I ever had a kid, and in my, in my un- unparented life.

And now it means nothing to me to like get up at 1:00 AM, 3:00 AM, [00:07:00] like whatever. I don’t care. Like, I’m really not stressed about it, and I’m sleeping a lot less now. But I’m, it super doesn’t bother me. And when I sleep, I sleep more deeply. Men don’t have the same kind of hormonal balance or shift. Yeah.

And yet, these days, especially in, in like sort of educated progressive families, men are expected to like get up and, and, and feed babies in the middle of the night the same amount, or like be there for their wives when their wives are up and breastfeeding. In many cases, obviously not in all, but when they take a gender egalitarian approach to newborn care, men who did not go through this hor- whole hormonal revolution, who, you know, have not experienced this bodily change that has given them the ability to be more flexible in these ways, and it’s well documented that women’s brains go through a lot of changes and their bodies too, obviously hormonally as well that probably allow for this to be tolerable.

And again, I’ve experienced it personally and I didn’t believe it could be possible. Is it any surprise that men are getting depressed when they’re like thrown into like this situation that they’re not [00:08:00] equipped to handle? So anyway, I thought that was interesting. And then he writes finally, when it comes to sexual and moral liberalism, views on sex education, divorce, marijuana legality and so on have in some cases quite radically shifted towards leftward positions.

Abortion legality for serious defects is the only exception among the bunch. So he clu- he concludes however-

Malcolm Collins: Yeah So hold on, hold on.

Simone Collins: He concludes, and this is what’s most interesting that, that the nation has moved considerably but not overwhelmingly to the left. His editorialization on the issue is what can we say about the normal person from 1995?

In many ways he was much like us. In other ways, he was what most people now regard as kind of a dick. He didn’t like interracial marriage and he wasn’t too keen on gays either. These social views aren’t alone. Plenty of things now considered taboo were, at the time, wholly acceptable even in polite society, and sometimes these were the majority view.

Right or wrong, I don’t think appealing to normal people in the world 30 years [00:09:00] ago is likely to make many friends after realizing the sorts of things people used to believe. So I somewhat agree with him, but I also think that he’s not extrapolating sufficiently from the data. So when you look at one of the graphs about like sort of racial views let a racist speak has gone down in the general social survey.

But also the definition of racist has changed significantly, and that’s not gonna get picked up in this survey. So like it changed- Right ... in the ‘90s from something that like we would genuinely even today argue is blatantly racist to-

Malcolm Collins: Yeah ...

Simone Collins: like let a racist speak means let, let someone admit that like genetic differences might lead to a difference in skin tone as you personally, Malcolm, experienced when being interviewed by an MSNBC journalist last year.

Like that’s what- Yeah ... racism is now, and that’s not gonna get picked up by this general social survey. So what I think Krimuw is missing is that he doesn’t understand that you can’t look at the general social survey and take this data-focused approach to this [00:10:00] issue, though I love the premise, because the definition of the words have changed rendering the survey data inadmissible.

What I think was more compelling was what NC Physicist observed which is I think a much more compelling graph which I’ll also send you on X to look at, and I’m also gonna post in the show notes of course. So this Pew graph I think is a lot better at illustrating what has happened. What NC Physicist observed and wrote was, “What the left calls far right is just the left moving further left.”

Sharing a pretty illustrative graph showing a diverging median Democrats and median Republicans in 1994 to 2017. For those who are just listening, basically 1994, there’s a median Democrat and a median Republican basically-

Malcolm Collins: High degree of overlap ...

Simone Collins: shown.

Yeah, they’re very close. Like, the medians are like this.

And then when you go to 2017, the medians suddenly diverge significantly. They’re quite far apart. And the, the graph goes from looking like two mountains [00:11:00] almost next to each other to, like, two quite different mountains with a very significant valley in between the two of them. Mm-hmm. And I think that that’s, that’s more what has happened.

Malcolm Collins: Well, here’s what I’ve begun to notice. And I think that this ... When I talk to your average, like, older boomer progressive about most of my beliefs, they don’t see them as particularly extreme, right? They’re like, “Oh, those are really normal things to believe.” Until I get to something like, you know, my beliefs on trans people or something like that, and they’re like, “Well, you know, what, what, what about, like, their rights?”

And I’m like, “Well, what about the rights of, like, religious people or people who dis- disagree with this,” right? And they’re like, “Well, yeah, that’s not, like, an extremist position to take.” What they don’t realize is functionally this average person from 1995 is today in the eyes of the normal progressive an absolute radical, an absolute extremist.

And [00:12:00] I think what we on the right do not fully realize is how many people who vote Democrat would actually support us if you could just get through ... Like, as I pointed out, when the thing I was shocked about was only sorry, that 40% of Democrats think that gender transition is immoral, right?

Like, like, like, that is astonishing to me, right? Like, when, when you talk about those numbers there, right? It, the left ... And yet, and yet you could be fired from saying that from a mainstream job too, right? Like, that it’s one, both such an unpopular opinion among the masses, but two, that it’s seen as labeling you as an extremist, right?

And I think a lot of the conversation is about waking people up to this reality, right? You know, that-

That th- that everyone who is really still sane is on the [00:13:00] right at this point. There, there is not... Like, the, the leftist factions that, that control what’s left of, of the left, when they go out there at their protest and say, “Shoot a Nazi,” and then, and this is a frequent mainstream talking point on the left- No,

Simone Collins: the, the, it’s punch, punch a Nazi.

But yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Punch a Nazi. Assault a Nazi. Okay, great. This is a normal mainstream talking point on the left. It’s also a normal mainstream t- talking point that if you sit at a table with a Nazi, you’re also a Nazi. And it’s also a mainstream talking point that MAGA is Nazi, which by the way, over half of America’s voted for.

They, it is... W- when you take these together and you ask, why are there so many leftist mass shootings these days it, it becomes immediately obvious. It is normal for them to believe they have a license to kill the vast majority of Americans for different belief systems. And the moment you wake up a leftist often, often, like one of these sort of sleeping boomer leftists, this is what their party is [00:14:00] now.

I, I think a lot of them are like, “Oh, I guess I, I guess I’m MAGA.” But then they’re like, “But if anyone ever found that out, I’d, I’d lose my job, I’d lose my friends, I’d lose my...” ‘Cause that’s the way that the left operates at this point, right?

Simone Collins: Well, one thing I thought was also interesting from this discourse and some of the, the discussion that people had, is this tension between the idea of progress and people shifting cultural views in the face of just better evidence, like learning, getting better, just the idea of progressivism being a concept of society progressing and improving.

And, and, well, this tension of that with like, to- I wanna say toxic culture and messages that actually isn’t making society better. So, HF responded in this general, like, about this subject, “Society always changes and moves on. By definition, a progressive, someone on the left, is either ahead of or keeping up with those changes.

A conservative, someone on the right, wants things to stay the same and not change. Society always changes [00:15:00] and moves on. By definition, a progressive, someone on the left, is either ahead of keeping up with those changes. A conservative, someone on the right, wants things to stay the same and not change.” But Charles Pontificates pointed out that, quote, “It’s mostly leftists who want deindustrialization and the stagnation of energy production, and that’s hardly progress.”

And he shared a graph of electricity and income per capita that makes it super clear that there’s no such thing as a low energy rich country. And where I felt like there’s this tension is I mean, a lot of people are trying to argue in response to this whole like, “Oh, well, they’re just reasonable people.”

Malcolm Collins: Well, I, I think that that’s just fundamentally not what the left-right divide is anymore. Uh-huh. And I think that saying that conservatives... If you go to a conservative and you ask them, like let’s say the trans stuff. My opinion on transition was changed predominantly by changes in the scientific evidence.

Simone Collins: Oh, okay. That’s a really- like- Yeah, that’s a good example of like where the left isn’t progressing with modern science and [00:16:00] understanding. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Right. Yeah, like with modern science it looks like the left should be- Or like

Simone Collins: climate change, right? Like, we learn different things about cli- But- And population is a good one, right?

Climate change, population. There was a belief

Malcolm Collins: that

Simone Collins: there were gonna be too many people, and now we know that we’re okay with a higher level of population. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: The right now is the side of data and statistics- Mm ... and, and c- climate realism and genetical re- realism, right? Like, we are the side that is engaging with information, and the left has just stopped doing that.

Simone Collins: Right. It- So this argument that it’s just that the left is the, is the, is the party of data and reality, and the right is, and conservatives are... I guess, and that’s maybe why we don’t call the it, the new conservatives. We call it the new right because-

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, because it’s not small C conservatives.

Simone Collins: Uh-huh. There are often- It’s not just go back to the old ways

y-

Malcolm Collins: quite radical people who are often open to a large diversity of ways of potentially fixing things.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And-

Simone Collins: Yeah ...

Malcolm Collins: the reason why it’s not just like go back to the old ways or don’t change is there isn’t just [00:17:00] like one unified image of the past that we’re fighting for anymore. It’s a better future that we’re fighting for.

And, and that obviously involves a lot of things. Like right now the right is a pro-AI party. The left is the anti-AI party. The right is the pro-nuclear party. The left is the anti-nuclear party. The right is the pro-genetics party. The left is the anti-genetics party. On almost every meaningful scientific i- issue

The, the right is the people coming to the, to the table with statistics. And when I talk about, like, with the trans stuff, it’s like, you know, if you follow the WPATH leaks or the data that the Travis Stark Clinic was hiding that you know, putting people on puberty blockers was increasing their unaliving risk, and now that it’s been banned in the UK, we haven’t seen any increase in unalivings in the UK, even within the trans community.

We now know that, like, the, the, those things are not true. And so now that we have that information, we can say, “Oh, we were wrong,” right? Like, the data that we were looking at was coming out of clinics that were making the majority of their money off of gender transition, which we’ve seen all of the pro-trans studies were.

[00:18:00] They had somebody involved whose life depended, life, livelihood depended on this being normalized, and that those institutions were covering up the data that was showing this wasn’t working. And we have historic evidence where a real... This happened in the past too, with Joe Money, right? Like, this is a repeated phenomenon, and when the phenomenon comes to light, you update your opinions, right?

We have changed our opinion significantly on a, you know, immigration because now if we look at the numbers, even three generations in,

Hispanic immigrants are over 50% on welfare, right? You know, you can’t support that, right? That eventually that ends up breaking the, the welfare system. They do not assimilate, right?

And with that being the case, and it’s, and it’s funny because, like, the leftists will even say, “Well, the goal isn’t assimilation.” If the goal isn’t assimilation, like, if you see that as a bad thing, them losing their heritage or, you know, culture, then we will become like the countries that they’re coming from, right?

Like, the, presumably the reason we don’t is it’s not that we have magic soil or something, it’s that [00:19:00] we see and perceive reality and ethics differently, and when they come to this perception, then they become productive like us, even if you are a blank slates. If you’re throwing that out the window, then we’re...

What, what conversation are we even having here?

Simone Collins: Yeah, this is really helpful for me because I, like I grew up just loving like the West Wing Democrat. Like this like we are patriotic, we love our country, we, we want everyone to thrive, we believe in science. That, that, like that’s the Democrat to which I anchored,

Malcolm Collins: And that’s what the right is now.

Simone Collins: I know. And, but like, but then I think there’s still a lot of people who remain Democrats today who still think that they’re West Wing Democrats, but they don’t... They hate America- ... and they won’t listen to science. And I’m, I, gets so confusing to me sometimes because we’re, I think we’re often confused of, or, or we’re, we’re being accused of being so something that we’re not.

When I think I’m, I’m certainly not the only person who is now on the right who [00:20:00] like grew up obsessed with West Wing Democrats because they’re wonderful. I love that show.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean-

Simone Collins: So that’s helpful. But, because I mean, what people kept saying is like, “Oh yeah? Yeah? Like well I’m just a normal person from the 1830s.”

Like do, is that where you, is that what you want? Is that what you want? Like you want Jim Crow? Is that what you want? And like, y- it, it just didn’t sit right with me.

Malcolm Collins: But this helps- Well, the reason why- ... sort of reframe it

Simone Collins: for me ...

Malcolm Collins: people say, “I’m just a normal person from 1995,” and it hits so hard for people in a way that

Simone Collins: these- 1995.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. When these people say, “Oh, I’m from the 1930s,” or whatever, is pretty much everyone agrees society, or at least America and Western countries, were demonstrably better in 1995, right? Like things were working better. There was less actual racism in our society, there was less you know, of the conflicts that we’re dealing with now as a society.

So when a person presents to you, “I am an average person from 1995,” m- people who hear that, the reason it’s effective is they’re like, “Yeah, let’s [00:21:00] go back to something that worked,” because this, what y- what we’re doing now, the left isn’t working.

Simone Collins: That Disney pastime is yeah. I, I really just need to wear my bonnet more. He’s going for it. But yeah, I that, th- this has been really helpful for me then because it’s, it’s helping me actually come to terms with this cognitive dissonance I’ve had around like the right being framed so readily as anti-progress, and even Cremieux being like- Yeah, the

Malcolm Collins: Cremieux-

Simone Collins: “Oh, the left hasn’t really changed” ... he’s a

Malcolm Collins: right-wing scientist. What’s he doing?

Simone Collins: Well, so this was a timed post, so I think maybe he was like, “I don’t know. Let’s see if the data backs it up.” And per the data he chose for this particular thing,

Malcolm Collins: Oh, he does that stupid timed writing

Simone Collins: thing ... that US general survey.

Yeah, I mean, like, ‘cause when that other person on X looked up the Pew results, like it’s very clear that there’s been a change. I think a lot of this comes down to definitions, but I think in that also is something interesting in that like it’s not necessarily that, [00:22:00] like, people’s reported views haven’t actually changed that much, and I think that’s meaningful.

It’s more that like maybe, maybe the radicalization is, is in definitions, is in like the way that people... The, the way that people have been radicalized, like the, the, the lobster or frog being boiled phenomenon had more to do with like not, not radicalizing people, but fundamentally and subtly changing definitions of like let’s just redefine you know, mental health as this, of of harm as no longer like physical assault, but of, you know, triggering someone, making someone feel bad.

You know, let’s, let’s r- reframe body positivity as not like, “Hey, you know, you don’t have to be perfect,” to like, “Oh, it’s okay to be morbidly obese and like deeply unhealthy.” Like maybe that’s where the, the societal harm or like the radicalization has taken place, and of course in certain measurement [00:23:00] formats that’s just not gonna show up.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, I just think his entire framing is wrong about what, what, what conservatism is in a, in a modern context, like what the right is in a modern context. Because it’s, it’s, it’s not just like, wrong. It’s an inversion of reality.

Simone Collins: I think you’re right. Yeah, it, it’s still interesting. And I, I mean, I keep hearing that whole, like, 1995 Democrat thing bandied about. It is so striking to see these quotes from Bill Clinton that are like, “Hey,” like, “Let’s, let’s control our borders and, you know, curtail social services for, you know, immigrants in our, in our cities.”

And, and that being, like, just the same simple stance that our current president has, and yet such a different view of how they’re categorized even today. It’s, it’s wild.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, I think the left back in the day was having a conversation where [00:24:00] the left and right had different values, right? But they both still wanted the best interest of the country, right?

And its people. And I think that now, very openly, the left is antagonistic towards the count- whatever country it’s in and its people. And this is, this is a fund- That means the conversation’s fundamentally different. They’re asking, “How can I destroy you?” We’re asking, “How can we build you up?”

Simone Collins: Yeah, maybe it’s connected to that, that sort of communist or, like, socialist Americans association plan that you de- outlined in a separate episode where they were like, “Okay, we’re gonna, you know, get people to collectively think that they’re super mentally unwell.”

You know, foment a- a- encourage the development of hideous art. Like, all these things. Maybe that’s kind of also it’s what’s happened is this collective plan since at least the ‘70s to basically make Americans hate America and be miserable, has also seeped in and taken over in a way that has been incredibly damaging.[00:25:00]

But I don’t know. You know- That’s, that’s more, what more or less what I wanted to discuss. This is, this is a short one, but,

Malcolm Collins: It’s a short one. Well, I mean, I think the thing that we need to get away from is the perception that we are... because in a way, yes, it is that we are 1995 Democrats, and that we are fighting with a collection of widely diverse people against the culturally dominant force, which at that time was the Judeo-Christian community.

And now it’s the urban monoculture. But I, I think outside of that, n- n- the, the two things don’t share that much in common. Like, the wider political ideology of, like, staffing the White House with a bunch of entrepreneurs and like, like, Founders Fund people and you know, actually cleaning things up, and I guess it’s...

But, like, everybody always kind of wanted the government to be and be doing who wanted a better future.

Simone Collins: But is it- I think actually Clinton had a, an effort similar [00:26:00] to DOGE.

Malcolm Collins: Oh yeah, he did. It

Simone Collins: was executed quite differently, but again, like, the similarities are insane. Plus, Trump at that very same time was a Democrat and openly known for being, like, a liberal Democrat public media figure.

So, like, I, I don’t know. I don’t know. I,

Malcolm Collins: I, by the way, fun, fun aside here, People have been talking about, and I, and I think that they’re right about this, about what was his name? Who, who’s the last president? Joe Bi- Hunter Biden. Hunter Biden running for office in a few years.

Simone Collins: Like- Oh, he’s on his comeback tour.

Yeah, I mean, I think the odds are long

Malcolm Collins: for anyone- He’s on his comeback tour. You know what? He could, he could I think do pretty well in terms of bipartisan support.

Simone Collins: Another glass ceiling. Yeah, you know?

Malcolm Collins: I mean, he’s a crazy crackhead, but he, he does it so he really captures the, what... Like, Gavin Newsom tried to do the Trump irreverent thing- Mm-hmm

and it didn’t work at all. Like, it looked so fake. When you know, Hunter Biden on, like, the Democrats’ main website has one [00:27:00] of his photos

with a crack pipe in his mouth- ... like, that is f*****g hilarious. That’s like, I’m not a Democrat, and I’m like, “That is hilarious that on the list of, like, who’s supporting who, you’ve got a, Hunter Biden with a crack pipe.”

Speaker 5: Here’s Hunter Biden reacting to this image. “ I know it may sound petty, but I can’t stand it when people Photoshop a meth pipe in my mouth. A crack pipe doesn’t have that little bowl at the end. This is why you can’t trust AI. Please make the appropriate edit. Thank you for your attention to the matter.”

Simone Collins: Well, in an age in which we’re just so fed up with inauthenticity, I think it’s one of the reasons why Trump did so well, is, like, Trump is exactly who- ... you think he is. He does not hide or try to obscure anything. Yeah. I mean, like, what- He’s proud of who he is, hides nothing. Hunter Biden is like, “Yeah, I did this.”

Like, it, it, like, the stories he told when he interviewed with Candace Owens were insane. And- Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Well, people are like, “Why, why aren’t you in, why aren’t you in jail?” And he’s like, “Well, my dad got me pardoned.”

Simone Collins: Yeah. Duh. Like-

Malcolm Collins: Like, what, what-

Simone Collins: Yeah, it, it’s super... And, and that’s, that’s, [00:28:00] that’s all we needed to hear.

You know, that just he’s not trying to virtue signal. He’s like, “Yep, that’s what happened.” Yeah, and then- And like, look at all this other crazy stuff. And I think especially, you know, in, with all the blowback that, that is arising in the face of, like, the Epstein revelations not being what we expected and all these things just not playing out the way we expected he’s got a lot going for him.

So yeah, if I- They should, yeah, they should just run him 20... I mean, it would be a tough run. Honestly- Yeah, running would be a tough run ... if it were Hunter Biden versus any of the... I mean, certainly, like Marco Rubio, there’s no way. There’s no way.

Malcolm Collins: Marco Rubio would struggle against Hunter Biden.

Simone Collins: Yeah, because Marco Rubio is all polished and perfect, and he looks like he’s hiding something.

He represents establishment. Yeah, I don’t, I don’t

Malcolm Collins: say, I don’t think Marco Rubio is a good candidate to run at all. Like, he comes across as very- I

Simone Collins: know, but people keep talking about him. I’m just

Malcolm Collins: saying ... people keep talking about him, but he just doesn’t, he comes off as so inauthentic c- compared- Yeah ... to, like, JD Vance.

Simone Collins: Right. But not everyone... Look, there are still many people who [00:29:00] weirdly want the inauthentic. They’re like, “Just give me my inauthentic politician and they have the authentic.” No,

Malcolm Collins: I just get that they have the opinion of Marco Rubio based on the things that he’s done in the administration, which I appreciate.

Simone Collins: Mm.

Malcolm Collins: And they have the opinion of JD Vance based on his history. I used to hate JD Vance for his whole Hillbilly Elegy and all that, and all his NPR-

Simone Collins: You didn’t even read it.

Malcolm Collins: No, but I saw his NPR apology tour. It was gross.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm. Oh,

Malcolm Collins: okay. But when I listen to his speeches now and I see him talking now, and I know, “Oh, this is a guy who watches Asmongold.

This is a guy who knows Hasan Shocks his dog. This is a guy who is eviscerating the UK for, like, what’s happening there in angry social media posts.” And the UK’s are like, “We, how dare you say that the UK is a garbage country and, like, the people should revolt.” But, like, I don’t see that from Marco Rubio.

I’ve never seen a speech where, like, afterwards I was like, I wanted to cheer for him, or I felt, like, a connection with him. Mm. But, you know, that, that, that’s- We shall

Simone Collins: see. We shall see. But no, you’ve... Th- this has been an important conversation for us because at least [00:30:00] now I understand That there’s been a divorce between, from the concept of progressivism and actual societal progress, which requires a reconciliation with inconvenient scientific truths and, and just, like, realities.

Plus just a- adapting with science. A- and adopting science, to your point. AI shifts in our understanding of how to best contend with climate change just realities of, of genetic differences realities of gender transition not being what we thought it was. Yeah, all these things are a divorce from what the natural, like, progress of history is going to be.

Malcolm Collins: It turned out that, like, sleeping with whoever you want whenever you want doesn’t lead to positive outcomes,

Simone Collins: right?

Malcolm Collins: You

Simone Collins: know? Right. Right, right. And I actually think, like, yeah, truly a true progressive has to, by definition, change their mind because we are going to try new things as society evolves, and some of those things we’re gonna try out to not be so good.

Like, they’re gonna turn out to be kinda damaging. And it’s like, okay, well look, we tried that. It, [00:31:00] that, that is, like, the scientific method, right? You, like, hypothesis, and then you do an experiment, and then you see if your hypothesis is null or if, if the... You’re like, “Oh, okay, I was right. I was wrong.” Like, okay, now we need to adapt.

We need further research. And then you, you, you, you, you refine, you iterate. And a true progressive society must be iterative, and the left has become a lot less iterative. Whereas on the right what you actually see is what feels like a modern version of a much more broad and distributed academic framework of, like, different schools of thought actively competing and seeing how their experiments turn out.

It’s super cool. It’s like a bunch of people, like, all trying to cure cancer and being like, “Well, I’m gonna try this weird form of gene therapy.” “Well, I’m gonna try this weird mushroom derivative.” And, “I’m gonna try, like, this targeted, like, weird bacteria.” And, like, all these different groups are trying and seeing what works best, and then when a group discovers that, like, “Oh, my weird mushroom solution actually causes the cancer to grow significantly more,” guess what?

[00:32:00] They drop it. And then on the other hand, we have, like, this one group that’s like, “I only do this one therapy. This one therapy is perfect.” And then it turns out the therapy’s, like, totally killing people. But who cares? No, we only do this one therapy, and how dare you suggest anything else? Anyway, I’m going to go.

Assuming it would be good for you, ‘cause I know you’re not feeling really great, I was gonna make heavy, creamy, smooth mashed potatoes, but I need to go now.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, that would be great for today, yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Okay, well then...

Malcolm Collins: Just mashed potatoes.

Simone Collins: Just mashed potatoes. I’m okay with that because the amount of cream and butter in them is, like, a little bit of protein plus a lot of, of fats, so I’m like, okay, fine.

I

Malcolm Collins: don’t eat that much. You know that, Simone,

Simone Collins: right? I know. But especially on days where you’re not feeling so well, I feel like creamy mashed potatoes. Like, I w- I want... I’m envisioning, it’s not gonna turn out this way, but I’m envisioning the kind that you get on the instant mashed potatoes- box where it looks like a snowy mountain at sunrise with a pat of butter slowly sliding down a beautifully whipped- I think with

Malcolm Collins: AI you’re gonna be able to make [00:33:00] great mashed potatoes.

Simone Collins: I, I pulled up a, a recipe and I... it looks good, so... with AI, of course.

Malcolm Collins: Remember to use rfab.ai recipe generator or-

Simone Collins: Yeah, it even creates really... Like, the images are also great motivation, ‘cause it shows you what you can get. And, and, like, pretty good, ‘cause you’re using Nana Banana for the images, and Nana Banana is, is the accurate AI image generator, whereas Grok is, like, the sexy, fun AI image generator.

So I like it.

Speaker 6: Or as a crazier feature, , and this one just came out, so it’s gonna be undergoing lots of updates. It’s got some stability issues now, but it’s a feature that allows you to search every not safe for work site that doesn’t have real humans on it, because I think that’s immoral, , at once. , So all of the, , not safe for work drawing sites can be searched simultaneously, and not just searched simultaneously, but from them you can, , download entire galleries with just a click, , without having to go through each individually with some, , useful [00:34:00] time-saving buttons like the no homo button, which just immediately removes all of the gay or male related tags from the search.

Or the, , English button, which instead of just searching for English, it searches for other languages, so you also get things without any, , language attached to them

Simone Collins: Yeah. Anyway.

Malcolm Collins: I love you.

Simone Collins: Off to potato land I go. God

Malcolm Collins: willing. Off to potato land I go soon enough.

Simone Collins: Hopefully. Yeah. We’ll see.

Malcolm Collins: All right. Bye.

Simone Collins: Bye. lap. He’s, he does this thing where he likes

Malcolm Collins: to- Okay. Roseanne

Simone Collins: Yes.

Malcolm Collins: We gotta make the AI waifu a, a thing. I think, I, I really wanna go harder with this. Like, the idea- Oh my God ... of, I, I, I wanna make it, like, even a meme on the right. I, I think it would be fun of you know, y- you, you can still... Being on the right doesn’t mean you can’t be, like, when I make sexy pictures of my AI waifu, which is just my wife done in, like, a Puritan AI anime style,

Simone Collins: You mean when you make AI pictures of [00:35:00] your wife waifu- Ah

not your actual

Malcolm Collins: fake wife. Yeah, yeah. Like, I do not understand, like, the people have gotten... It’s my wife, okay? Like, this is my property, okay? There is n- And it’s not like she’s semi-closed in these or something. It’s not like she’s you know, showing off some sort of sexualized asset like breasts or something.

You know, it’s literally my wife drawn in a way that is appealing enough to you, the watcher, you know, with, with yandere face or whatever, where you’re like, “Oh that, that, that’s, that’s We’re have- like, we need to be the side of fun, not the side of curmudgeonliness, okay? And I wanna put m- m- more pictures of myself.

I, I did some Duke of the North ones of, of me.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I wanna see those. Give me more of those.

Malcolm Collins: More of Otherworld Malcolm. More,

Simone Collins: more Malcolm fan art. That’s what I’m here for. Well,

Malcolm Collins: they had the, the fur on them, and I w- we were thinking about that

Simone Collins: before. Yeah, and I keep sending you those outfits, [00:36:00] and you just never wanna choose them.

You- Let’s

Malcolm Collins: get one. Let’s get one. I’ma b- make a note right now. No, you can’t. I will stay up late to find fur.

Simone Collins: No. D- you are going to bed tonight. You’re going to bed early, or you might discover that key electronics in your room have just started to disappear randomly.

Malcolm Collins: This is the way you treat our kids.

Simone Collins: It’s true, actually.

Malcolm Collins: But I mean, I mean, I wanna make it, like, a... I want it to be not just us, but I, like, want the wider community to... Because I think, you know, we did this with Emilia to an extent, right? But the problem with Emilia is if you’re an older woman, like, let’s say 40 or something like that, and you’re dressing like Emilia, or 35, 36, and you’re dressing like Emilia you’re gonna look like a creep or a, a loser, right?

Like, that, that looks try-hard and empathetic. Yeah,

Simone Collins: it’s so tried, yeah. Women need to dress their age. Let’s bring it back, people.

Malcolm Collins: We need to show that being a Christian mom is not uncool or unsexy. And, like, if [00:37:00] you were Jewish- you- Y- you could draw,

Simone Collins: like- They don’t have to be sexy. Let’s be clear. They can just be cool.

No,

Malcolm Collins: but th- women want to be desirable, and we do not have an archetype of a desirable woman with, like, five or six kids who tries to live a moral life. But there’s no reason we... We can fight asymmetrical warfare with the left because we can have sexy women and anime, right? So let’s buckle in and start fighting this.

You know, if y- if you’re Jewish, you can do, like, hot Hasidic women, right? You know, you can do the, the hot Hasidic family. Oh. The, you know, if, if you’re- And if you’re Christian, you know, post, post the, the, the, your, your wife. And I think that making it of, you know- Your wife ... your wife or, or your ideal wife if you don’t have a wife is, is also a fun way because you know it’s going to trigger the leftists soaking hard.

When they see- Yeah. Let’s do this ... us having fun, that’s gonna trigger them. Don’t let it trigger you, okay? We gotta, we gotta win this.

Simone Collins: All right. [00:38:00] Okay. As long as I get more Malcolm fan art, I’m down with it.

Malcolm Collins: Okay.

Simone Collins: I like, I like the Malcolm fan art you create for me. I mean, obviously I should be creating it too, I just don’t...

There’s no time for fun. There’s no time for anything. Gotta... Anyway, shall I start?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, let’s get started.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Are the apples wet? They, they have a lot. All apples

No, no, apples are just naturally a bit wet, Toasty. Washed them in the sink to wash off the dust- Come on, Toasty ... that you’re always so worried about, right?

Torsten, eat an apple. What are you doing?

She didn’t lick them all

I want it back to zoo. It’s true I know it’s true. I, I promise you she- Jackson, you were-[00:39:00]

See, Tyne didn’t. That would be a really long thing for her to do, Josie You make her too much fun. We went in the-

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