Former National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan and Deputy National Security Advisor Jon Finer join Mixed Signals to talk about their leap from the Situation Room to the podcast studio. They explain why they started The Long Game, what they learned about media while running US foreign policy, and how the war in Ukraine became as much an information battle as a military one. The conversation ranges from Gaza and Al Jazeera to AI-generated propaganda, reactions to the Munich Security Conference, and whether Democrats ever figured out how to explain foreign policy to the American middle class.

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