Fly tier Jake Villwock grew up the son of a commercial fisherman, and is now a Pennsylvania fly-fishing guide for smallmouth, Great Lakes steelhead, and spring creek trout. Jake is also a fly-tying innovator and author of the book Smallmouth Bass Flies Top to Bottom. Jake and Fly Fisherman editor/publisher Ross Purnell debate the age-old question, “What’s better, bass or trout?” They talk about frog patterns for trout and bass, the “Godfathers of Bass” (Clouser, Kraft, and Whitlock), and dive into the creative process behind Jake’s match-everything baitfish pattern called The Roamer. Listen to the end and you’ll learn some unusual secrets about how to catch muskies on small flies, how to target mudding carp, and why some smallmouths turn black.