In this episode, Bryan sits down with two siblings who grew up on an ostrich farm in a strict Mormon home. Their stories took very different paths—one running into rebellion, the other chasing perfection—but both eventually discovered the life-changing difference between performance-based religion and the gospel of grace.

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James and Madi grew up in an unexpected setting—an ostrich farm—inside a deeply committed LDS home led by parents who valued hard work, obedience, and doing “all you can.” As James hit his teen years, the pressure of performance-based religion collided with real-life struggles, leading to conflict, shame, and eventually being asked to leave home at 15. Madi, only seven at the time, watched it all happen and absorbed a powerful message: don’t mess up. She doubled down on Mormon checklists and perfection, while James spiraled into instability, early fatherhood, and chasing acceptance wherever he could find it.

As the years passed, James carried that same performance mindset into the Marine Corps, then into adulthood—along with addiction and a strained marriage. Madi’s story took a different path: religious OCD, emotional despair, theological questions she couldn’t get answered, and eventually stepping away from the church entirely. But when James and his wife encountered Jesus through a local Christian church, everything shifted—his identity, his marriage, and his sense of being loved without conditions. Watching that transformation sparked Madi’s own journey of deconstruction, as she began to see the profound difference between Mormon doctrine and the gospel of grace—and the hope of becoming a disciple-maker for others coming out of the same world.