Jessup Think

Beloved psychology professor Erin Ambrose joins Mark and Rex for part 2 of their discussion on sex and Christian culture.

TRANSCRIPT

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Welcome to Jessup think I'm your host Mark Moore and your co host Rex Gurney. And Rex. This is part two of sex and Christian culture. Right. And we have an expert guests with them, right? We've brought in an expert, Dr. Erin Ambrose, who's in our psychology department. And it was it was such a good conversation. It really was slides. So we hope you enjoy it. And we hope you, you gain the knowledge that she that she has to offer that can help us in this really important topic.

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We're excited. I am excited for this episode. So this is part two. And I'm really excited because we have a special guest, right?

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We figured we needed an expert after, after our last podcast. Exactly. We were looking around and we realized we had one in our midst. That's right.

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So we're really glad to welcome Erin Ambrose. Hey, I'm so glad to be here. Yeah. So and you're part of our psychology department.

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I teach psychology here. And then I also have a private practice. So nice, both sides of psychology that academia and also their how to practice

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and actually put it into practice. That's great. And how long have you been Jessa 12 years? Oh, nice. Beer. So we got we got a good crew here. We got a crew. That's almost all in the decade of being here and longer racks. So like you started as an adjunct and then worked my way in. We've done the same journey.

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Yeah, sorry. Yes, I drink too. But this time, we're way back in San Jose, when we were just on the quarter system, actually. And oh, wow, I almost didn't last pass my last my first sajak. But then here I am, like 16 years. laters. Right. There you go there and a lot. Right. Yeah,

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going, right. I have a way of like, drawing us in one class at a time.

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Exactly, exactly. We're really excited to have you on because last last episode, we did kind of part one, and we touted sex and Christian culture. And we really kind of looking at, there seems to be maybe two extremes happening within Christian culture. So you kind of have the purity movement of like, 80s 90s into the early 2000s. And we even talked about how that could be characterized, somewhat characterized as the sexual prosperity gospel was kind of like if you wade into all this, then when you get married, dubs will descend from the hip, and like almost any iteration of the prosperity gospel, there are issues. Right? Yeah, exactly. A lot of probably that happened. Oh, my goodness, yes. And then there seems to be on the other side, kind of maybe a reaction against that to kind of a kind of a disregard of the sexual biblical ethic, like, Oh, that is, you know, seen as prudish or seen as, and we're talking within Christian culture, too. I mean, right. Right, both of those within Christian culture. Right. Right.

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And so we're trying to figure out how, you know, with those, you know, with that happening, how we can possibly reframe the conversation.

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And we certainly need to write because neither of those things work. Oh, yeah. They I can tell you from the therapeutic PR side. They don't work. Right.

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Yeah, they really don't. And and I think that is the heart behind this is how do we start to because we it's a topic we need to talk about. We need to talk about more. But we also need to talk about it in a way that's going to be helpful. Be great practice goals. Yeah, just just heaping on more guilt or shame, doesn't help or yelling louder. Yelling louder. I

3:37

talked about that last time. Or disregarding it or just ignoring it. Boy. Yeah. I think I mentioned this last time I had kind of, you know, avoided the elephant in the room for years in my Christian perspective class, and finally started feeling really guilty about

Mark and Rex wade into the delicate waters of sex and Christian culture. On one hand the church has been labeled as prudish and uptight but on the other hand, statistics show that sexual practice matters little whether you are inside or outside the church.

TRANSCRIPT

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Hey, welcome to Jessup. Think I'm your host, Mark Moore and

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your co host, Rex Gurney.

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And today, Rex, we are talking about a topic that we may be approached with fear and trepidation is a topic that

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I avoided for a long time dealing with until I got convicted that I couldn't

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avoid it. Right. And it's a topic we need to talk about. And we definitely need to talk about it without fear and trepidation. That's something we need to talk about. So we're going to talk about sex and Christian culture. And I hope you enjoy. So I hope you stick around for for the show, it's going to be part one or part two. And in this episode, we're going to kind of talk about maybe statistics within the church right of of our use of sex and abuse of sex. But then also, yeah, culturally, how that how we can frame the conversation. Yeah,

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and talk about it in a redemptive way. In our community. That's right.

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So hope you enjoy. Now, Rex, yeah, today we are, we're going to be talking about a topic that that is one that you kind of brought to our kind of brainstorming session. Oh, my God. Yeah, you know, I have to right away, I'm distancing myself

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we are going to go for at least our own podcast has not gone but yeah. So we're boldly going where no podcasts right. Gossip has gone before?

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That's true. Yeah. As as the only podcast. That's right. But we do, but I think it is an extremely important topic, right. And we want to talk about sex and Christian culture. So and not just and we I think we want to kind of why I've been kind of titling in that is, is to make a distinction between we're not talking about just sex in our culture, or our culture's view of sex. But we actually want to be a little bit more pinpointed on, on on how sex is maybe viewed within the Christian culture, how is it how it is expressed within the Christian culture, and, and things that we are maybe noticing trends that we are noticing, we're gonna, I really think we're gonna look at the good and the bad, and try to parse just

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gonna try to reframe the issue in a way that especially millennials, and younger Christians, um, will actually understand and pay attention to, actually because, you know, there is an issue that we sort of don't talk about a lot. And it is the fact that there's a significant percentage of young adults who view themselves, even as evangelical Christians that simply reject part of the traditional Christian sexual ethic, and particularly the part about premarital sex. Right? It's not that they're ignorant of the teaching of the Bible. They simply reject it for one reason or another. Yeah. And I think we can both agree that the biblical eminent admonitions and and teaching on this has been pretty consistent through the past 2000 plus years, Ram hasn't really changed much. So how can we maybe reframe the conversation so folks would would take the traditional Christian teaching more seriously than apparently a lot of Christians do. Right. And I've heard that we just need to yell louder at people. That doesn't seem to be working now. Yeah, no. So are there other ways we can talk about it? Are there ways we can address this problem?

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Yeah. And it seems like that there's might be a good place to start is kind of look at why it has been rejected. I mean, I think it's kind of noticing the stats, maybe behind it. Although it's kind of interesting. It does seem like maybe within millennials, and even in Gen Xers, there was kind of this move against the biblical sexual ethic, but also kind of seeing some recent stats where like, Generation Y is having less sex than predecessor. Right, right. Engaging in even dru

Mark and Rex reflect on the holiday season while addressing the true war on Christmas.

TRANSCRIPT

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Welcome to Jessup think I'm your host Mark Maher and your co host Rex Gurney and racks it is Christmas time. I

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am so excited. You can feel the crisp air outside. Here the jingle bells and hot cocoa. Oh my gosh, yeah.

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fireplace in

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the studio is the most wonderful time of the year.

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I do love Christmas, though. I mean, if you know me, then you know that I do have a Harper

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really all things Christmas. You're not one of those guys that starts playing Christmas music on July the fourth. Oh, no, I

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have a very strict Thanksgiving. Okay. Okay. Okay. But I do have a two step process to get me into the Christmas spirit. Okay, so after Halloween, November 1 starts what I like to call Sinatra season. So just kind of the standards, not Christmas music, but still Martin Sinatra, Tony Bennett, like, the classics, but just their standards. And then it kind of gets you into that. I don't know for me Why? Like,

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probably because this association with nostalgia. Yes, some ways. And Christmas is a very nostalgic season. Nothing bad about that. It's just

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yeah, I think it is. And I think you have something. And I was like, yeah, just some about that. Maybe the way the mid 20th century captured Christmas. Even if it was artificial. I still am nostalgic about the way they you know, and

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speaking about the mid 20th century and artificial things. Mark, what do you remember with your family of origin when you're growing up about what was just one of your favorite Christmas traditions in your family when you were growing up?

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I mean, I think the one that I remember the most is that on Christmas morning, and I'm the youngest of four. So I had three older siblings, older sister and two older brothers and there's you know, there's kind of a about seven or eight years in between all of us have span. And so when I'm kind of young Elementary, my oldest siblings are kind of high school, so and I could never understand why they would still be asleep on Christmas. Oh, yeah. Like how are they sleeping? We have presence but one thing that my family did is before we could open any present my dad had to read the Christmas story. Okay, out of Luke two okay. Out of the King James Version. And

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did you have a Charlie Brown music on I know I wish

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we probably having like Sinatra record. And that was back in the day when houses you had it wasn't retro yet. It was you still just had a record player in your rights right? There. Right. The you know, I try to tell people tell students now like my parents and grandparents were cool before cool even happen because they just had a record player that's right in their living room. That's right there. That's right. And so my dad would read it and I'm pretty certain that he read it as slowly as possible. I get fidgety. Like, I would just take forever guy. But it was also something that I really appreciated. And now even kind of carry that on with our family kind of make, you know, I've got it, you got to pass on the suffering. You can't just Okay, you got to extend that. But what about you? What are some?

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Well, um, so I grew up in New Mexico. And one of the things that was no, it depends, but often often there's snow, especially in northern New Mexico, right? elevation, right. It's mainly elevation. But there's sort of a tradition, it's kind of gone almost semi nationwide now, but it really sort of started in in northern New Mexico. And it's of lighting luminarias on Christmas Eve. Oh, and it's kind of an old Spanish tradition, basically, or at least Spanish American tradition. And what you do is you only do it really, one night of the year. Um, sometimes they'll do it on New Year's Eve. But that's seldom mismanages Christmas Eve because no electric lights are allowed on this to do it the right way. Right. You

Mark and Rex examine whether theology should be considered a science. The pair surveys the historical and linguistic issues surrounding the question.

TRANSCRIPT

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Hey, welcome to Jessup think I'm one of your hosts, Mark Moore

0:04

and Mark's co hosts Rex Gurney.

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There we go. And today I'm really excited about this episode, I could have talked for five hours on this episode. Maybe even more, there'll be subsequent episodes that come out of this episode, I feel sounds good already. I can already see it happening. But we're gonna be we're excited to look at theology as a science and kind of pose like, Can theology be considered a scientific endeavor? Should it be considered scientific endeavor? What does that even mean? And what the implications

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are? If it is,

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so we really hope you engage in this, there's going to be some German names. There, there is going to be some even spelling and

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spelling tests at

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the end. So hope you enjoy. So I've been working on a journal article, actually, uh huh. And it was a position paper. So I was invited to write this. Write the article, and it was covering a question that I thought was interesting. And so to kind of bring it up on the, on the show, get your thoughts on this, but the question was, whether the study of theology could be considered or should be considered a scientific endeavor. And so I was I was intrigued by that, you know, I'm not a scientist by any means. And Rmi. Yeah. Hey, very cool. That's close. It

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totally has skipped a generation, if not more. There we go.

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Yeah, I could, I could probably even say I didn't go very far in science at all. In schooling,

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it was really bad. My father was a chemist, and I got a D high school chemistry to class did you have to hide that? Well, I went to him for help wives. And he just looks at me and he takes his old college textbook out, blows the dust off of it, and just slams it down in front of me. And I go, this is not helping me. But I know I need to be an English major.

2:07

Right? Yeah, that's, that's I had two key moments in my life. And it was physics, and then calculus. And when I was in both classes at the same time, in my senior year in high school, and I was like, yep, this isn't for me. This is not my world. I'm gonna go. Right? That's right. Yeah. So yeah, we get we get English and theology and history. That's why we get, but

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the very fact that we can even do this podcast is because there are people that actually pass calculus, right.

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Physics and Exactly. So we are indebted to them. Yes, that's right. We support him. 100%. Exactly. But when you when you kind of hear that question, what are maybe some first things that come to your mind? Like, can should the study of theology be considered a scientific endeavor?

2:54

Well, I'm actually I think it opens up some broader questions in the role of science and faith and in the academy right now, pretty much right, you know, used to be even land grant universities, even state universities back in the day would have theology departments that didn't last very long, but in the 1800s, they would Yeah. And now you rarely will find the theology department in anything but perhaps some faith based colleges. And what you will find a religious studies departments, yes, you can study religion as a social science. But theology is not considered in the realm of whatever sciences, I don't know, if science deals with what's real, then apparently, theology, people's mind doesn't deal with what's real. airgo It's not a science airgo. Right. And that, that just opens up all sorts of things about what you can teach, and even public schools in high school now. So this has a lot of really broad implications.

3:58

Yeah, it does. And it's kind of it's kind of interesting. I, you know, when I meet different people, in different areas of my life, you know, outside of the school, you know, I'm like,

Dr. Daniel Gluck joins Mark and Rex to talk about his experience with the African church. Rex also shares insights from his time pastoring in South America.

TRANSCRIPT

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Welcome to Jessup Think. I'm your host, Mark Moore, and your co host, Rex Gurney. Right. And this is part two of our global Christianity series. And we really looked at kind of theoretically last time. And so today's storytelling time today is storytelling with Mark and Rex. And we have a special guests, we have Daniel Gluck, he's professor of Christian Leadership, and just has extensive experience with church in Africa and working in mostly East Africa. So we're really excited to have him on and to kind of hear those stories, hear what he has seen happening in the church, right. And then we also get to hear some stories from you, Rex have

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spent several years in Latin America,

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yeah, in Colombia, and Ecuador.

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And you yourself have to have extensive experience with the church in Asia and

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East Asia. So we got a little you know, combo of all the churches. So we hope you enjoy this episode, and we hope it kind of pushes you to, to see the church in a bigger light, right, and to see the church as the church universal.

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But no, yeah, no, Rex, and I last week talked about global Christianity and really highlighted just kind of that shift that is, is happening, and then obviously projected to, to really take an effect in the next, you know, 25 years. Yeah, really just that shift from the center of the church being, which traditionally has been in the global north. So European, North American, to the global south. And we also highlighted that, that part of that terminology, is tied to, to geography, but it's also tied to economics as well, that that global north to global south, is that transition to churches in the global south that have traditionally been among the developing countries in sub Sahara Africa, South America and Southeast Asia. And, and so we just kind of highlighted that that shift is happening, and what that kind of looks like that, that maybe power center or the center of Christianity is now shifting over and and what does that that look like? What does that mean?

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Should we be like, even concerned about that? And why should it make a difference in the way we

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look at the faith? Right, and, and we knew and, and rexton had talked a little bit in the last episode about some of the experiences in Colombia, and we're gonna get more into that. We also want to do on the show, too, because I know your experience with the African churches. Sure. In your work in Kenya, what where all in Africa? Have you worked, particularly East Africa, so

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I'm not as knowledgeable on South Africa, West Africa, you know, North Africa, they actually usually consider the Arab World Rally, right? So because it's very Muslim influenced and stuff, but yeah, Uganda, Tanzania, Kenya, especially in East

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Africa. And with that kind of work, like what are what are some of the things you saw within the African church? And maybe some of the changes that have happened even in the last 10 years?

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Yeah, certainly, there's a couple of key themes that I would note, you know, from my experience, and study, one, you know, and this fits with this whole topic, which I think is a fantastic one is really a shift from, you know, sort of Western denominational movements to African indigenous movements. And there's actually a term for that call, there's actually a denomination called the aiic. In Africa, which is a separate thing that's African inland church, which was a splinter off of China inland mission that Hudson Taylor started, but also we talk broader about AI sees, which are African indigenous churches, and that's where the greatest growth statistically, in Christianity is. These are very Pentecostal, Pentecostal influenced movements, and they're starting congregations here

Mark and Rex discuss the explosive growth of Christianity in Africa, Latin America, and Southern Asia.

TRANSCRIPT

0:00

Welcome to Jessup think I'm your hosts are one of your hosts, Mark Moore, and your co host, Rex Gurney. Our occasional co host, occasional, you know you're on you're more reoccurring co hosts are sure. And today, we're starting kind of part one of a two part series that might turn into an 18 part series and easily do that of global Christianity. And talking about how the numbers are just exploding in the church outside of Western Europe and America. And we've kind of we've noted the decline in Western Europe for a long time. But I think it's really good for American churches to start recognizing, hey, The kingdom of God is so much bigger and so excited to In this episode, just kind of talk about that shift that's happening. Right, right. And then looking forward to part two, we'll be looking at some more stories from African churches, and Latin American churches. Right, looking forward to it. So hope you enjoyed this part one as we kind of dive into global Christianity.

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Well, no, today on there, on the episode, we're going to be talking about global Christianity. And we're going to kind of with that we're going to be defining some terms and defining maybe exactly what we mean by global Christianity. And I'm excited and maybe some other episodes, we're able to pull in some other faculty to kind of talk about their experience exactly with the with the global church. But I think just kind of maybe I think what brought this issue up with you, Rex, and kind of why how you brought it kind of to the table. And and I think something that I've seen in my own life is, it's really easy to view your own faith, kind of through only the lens or simply the lens of your culture. Right. Right. And maybe not just your culture, but your country. And I think that that is particularly a part of maybe American Christianity.

2:04

And, you know, I guess one of the reasons for that, as you could probably make a historical case that for around 100 years or so, probably, you know, the most vibrant, you know, center as far as numbers and money and yeah, theory endeavor and things like that. Were from here, right? That is actually no longer true. Maybe the money thing is

2:24

right, but is, is Yeah, is the United States still the the number one on population of country? I think it still is still is. But yeah, the numbers are shifting, they're showing those numbers are really radical. I guess, when we bring up that term global Christianity, what do we mean by that term?

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Well, I think we've already kind of sort of answered the meaning of it already. Yeah, Christianity is not the, you know, property or, or it doesn't belong to anybody. You know, it's interesting. So when you look at the geographical sort of center of Christian vibrancy over the last 2000 years, it's always shifted. I mean, you start with Jerusalem, you know, then you end up I don't know, Antioch, then somehow gets to Rome, sort of sticks with Rome for a while, then we start talking about Christendom. And when we start talking about Christendom, we're really talking about Western Europe. Right. And then, you know, you could make a case that it kind of jumped the Atlantic, and then North America became a real center of Christian vibrancy. And now that train has already left the station and it is gone somewhere else. And yeah, a lot of us really aren't aware of that. And and I guess it's just sort of important to know and and to understand what that might or might not mean for us as Christians here in the United States. Yeah. And a lot of the kind of studies in the statistics you look at talk about the center of the of the, of Christianity shifting from what is termed the global north to the global south. Well, I was just looking at some stats just recently and in 2010 of the 10 countries with the largest Christian populations

Mark and Rex discuss the growing and vocal movement of ex-evangelicals and highlight key causes for this movement away from the evangelical label. They also discuss the postChristian leap that many make, especially some recent high profile figures within the evangelical community.

TRANSCRIPT

0:00

Welcome to Jessup think I'm your host, Mark Moore and your co host Rex Gurney. And today on the show, we're going to be talking about, I think, a really important issue, an issue of people leaving the evangelical movement and leaving it publicly Yeah, leaving it publicly. And then and then a group that has left now identifying themselves as ex Benjamin tells, and kind of forming a community is saying, Hey, we were all part of something. And now we're not right, and finding community in that. And so we really wanted because there's this, this is a an issue that I think is really important. And there's been recent, recent people kind of publicly leaving a faith leaving the church, I think it's important for us to talk about it. So I really hope you enjoy the show. I hope you keep an open mind as we kind of walk through this and kind of look at this phenomenon that's happening, and maybe what are some of the reasons and what are some of the reactions we can have? It's an important conversation.

1:06

Alright, Rex, we are what I really love about maybe where this episode can go. Okay. Is and I have no idea actually. That's true. I mean, you know, topically, well, I know, we've talked, we've we've talked about this, but but I think it's just something for us to to really discuss and kind of explore I want to kind of take the next 30 ish minutes right to, to explore and really to exploring this kind of recent phenomenon, but not really and won't will highlight that. Right. But kind of a recent phenomenon of, of people leaving the evangelical movement, right. And some have put terms to that, like the x Van jellicle movement, or even x Bs, right. Like, and, and there's been a community that has formed, right, right. around that, like, and, and I think that that area is really interesting to me, right?

2:05

levels of levels, the fact that it actually is kind of a, what some people will call a hashtag community. It's also really interesting. And yes, seeing the advent of a lot of those the whole Black Lives Matters. And you know, just you just name it.

2:19

Yeah. And kind of make use of social media, to connect groups of people, right, and to find community, right. And there's been this kind of community forming of saying, Hey, we were in the evangelical movement, but now we're not.

2:34

And that not means different things for different Yeah, yeah, that's true, which makes it really interesting phenomena and also

2:41

there. And I think with that, there's been kind of then kind of high profile people who've been voiced that right, and that adds another layer. And not, not all of those more recent ones have been necessarily just ex evangelical, some of have been been moving to post christian right, saying, Hey, I don't think I can call myself a Christian anymore.

3:06

Some are atheists, some are agnostic, some are I don't know what I am some right into what they feel are more progressive forms of Christianity, some sort of stay on the margins, right, and feel that they're being prophetic on the margins. And so the sort of, I don't know, xx fees still, you know, on the outer edges of the camp.

3:27

Right. Right. And I think that's one thing that I've I do appreciate about, I think the community because I think there needs to be room for people saying, Hey, I think you're getting this wrong. Right. Right. And I think that's important. I mean, that's, that's kind of what the prophets did. And they weren't always well liked for it. Right. Right. And so I'm always, I always want to be careful about any type of knee jerk reaction. Right.

3:52

Right. And, and as you mentioned before, this i

Dr. Cynthia Shafer-Elliot joins Mark to discuss her role as a field archeologist. Dr. Shafer-Elliot has been digging in Israel for over a decade and is currently part of the archaeological excavation team at Tell Halif, Israel. She just might be Mark's hero.

TRANSCRIPT

0:01

Welcome to Jessup think I'm your host Mark Moore. And I'm privileged today to sit down with Dr. Cynthia Schafer-Ellot, our resident Old Testament professor and Professor of archaeology. And today we're going to talk about her role in archaeology and the digs that she's on and the exciting and fun and maybe boring to some people, but not others, things that she's finding and the work that she's doing. So I hope you enjoy this episode as we kind of dive into archaeology of ancient Israel.

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Alright, Cynthia, I'm excited to have you on the show. This is second time, second time the show. So you're now officially a friend of the show. Yay. Oh, he's been a friend. But now a friend of the show actual friend of the show. Because the show is like this impersonal you know, third party thing. Yeah, that, that I just get to be a part of and then now your friend of the show. So once we start, you know, getting merchandise, then we'll be able to send you as a friend of the show. You'll get merchandise, but we don't have any merchandise yet. When you do. Let's get to work on that. Yeah, I've got some ideas. I got some ideas that I think could go work. They may involve a T Rex. That would be great. And a coffee cup and a coffee cup. Or or a gray blazer? Yes. There we go. I think maybe a T rex integrate. blazer

1:34

There you go. Being with his tiny arm with the tiny arms a little coffee silver coffee

1:39

mug? Yes. That's what's happening now. I wouldn't be you exist. I would be the first to jump on that bandwagon. Right? We'll make it happen. Okay, whoever if you're listening, and you can make this happen, contact me. And we will we'll do it together. We'll make that a faculty of theology. Yeah, like, first thing to do? Yeah. We're getting on merchandise for just think we got some good ideas. I love it. But no, I'm excited to have you on and kind of talk about all the exciting things, exciting things that you've been doing in the field of archaeology, and been doing every summer you've been going on digs? How long have you been doing that?

2:18

Well, um, I started as a master's student. Okay. I won't tell you how far long ago that was. We're not doing math. Now. Now. So I've been I mean, part of what I do is I, you know, I teach Hebrew Bible and I teach archaeology. And I'm interested in the historical and cultural and social context of ancient Israel, right, as is reflected both in the Hebrew Bible and in the actual Earth. Right. So not just the text, but the artifact and everything else. So in order to do that, it's very important that you do what you teach. Right. So but I love excavating. So yeah, I've been excavating since. Gosh, I think my first full season on a dig was in 2001. And I've been doing most summers. So I've been on staff on several digs. am on staff on a couple of digs? And yeah, it's, it's great. I can handle being getting up at four in the morning for like, four weeks. Yeah. And that's, that's about it. For weeks, that's all I got. And then I turned back into a pumpkin. So

3:28

hey, I hear you. I I like getting up early. And then in the afternoon, I turned to a pumpkin. Early morning and a late night person. Afternoon. Well, then you would do well on a day. Yeah, I see. I think right. Well, you are like living my childhood dream. Really funny. I grant was one of my three things that I wanted to be showing up. One was third baseman for the Cincinnati Reds. There you go. And, you know, pursued that as long as I could. And then the second one, strangely enough, was a botanist, which a botanist deals with plants. Yeah. And I think I read it in the, you know, Encyclopedia Britannica that we had in our house

PhD Candidate and Adjunct Professor Mikel Del Rosario sits down with Mark to discuss current issues in historical Jesus studies.

TRANSCRIPT

0:01

Welcome to Jessup think I'm your host Mark Moore and our co host Rex Gurney is off traveling the world. So I'm in studio by myself, but I'm excited to be joined by actually a fellow adjunct professor. I teach in our online program now at miquel del Rosario, and he is actually in Dallas at Dallas Theological Seminary working on his PhD. He is the host of the table podcast there with Darrell Bock, coming out of the Hendricks center. And he also has his own website called apologetics guide calm, but McHale sits down with me and we discuss kind of current issues in historical Jesus studies. I think you're really going to enjoy the conversation. Well, Macau is great having you on the show. All the way from Texas. That's right. The Big D Dallas, Texas. Oh, thanks so much for having me on the show. Hey, it's it's it's a pleasure. And you have a connection with Jessup.

1:07

Yes, that's right. I actually used to teach on campus here. Teach apologetics and world religion on campus. And before I went out to Dallas Seminary to do my th M. And now in the Ph. D. program there.

1:20

Oh, that's great. And what year did you What year? Did you start here? Just

1:23

2011 and 12. I was teaching on campus here and then right when I left is right when Jessup started Jessup online. Oh, right. And so there are there were a number of adjuncts to got to start courses and put together content for that. And I was one of them. So I kind of got it and right on the ground floor.

1:41

Hey, that's great. And you're still teaching with us online? That's

1:43

right. Yeah. I've been teaching every semester since since I left California in 2012. All the way to now. So there you go.

1:49

That's great. And just keeping you busy while you're doing. Yep. So you did your th m, and then you're working on your dissertation and your PhD. So I heard through the grapevine that you finished coursework. Yes, that's right, which is a beautiful experience. So when you come out of that door, right, the dubs started flying. I played. I remember my last class, and it was kind of a weird experience. It was like, Okay, I think I might be done with school for my life. I have all the classes. I've taken them all. I can't I can't take any more. Like, that's what my wife tells me. I'm not allowed to take anymore. But you got a lot of things going on in Dallas to that you. So you. So you've finished up PhD work. And you're also working at the Hendricks center. Yes, they are and what is what's the role of the Hendricks center there, Dallas.

2:39

So my title there is Cultural Engagement Manager. And we have a podcast called the table podcast. And it's a podcast that runs every week. It's a video podcast. And I produce that I get the guests on the show. And I'm also one of the hosts. We have four hosts. My mentor, Dr. Darrell Bock is one. Bill Hendricks, our executive director for leadership. And then one of my other co workers, Kimberly cook. I mostly do the apologetics shows. But I've also done faith and work kinds of shows and other shows. But that's a big part of what I do. And I also write cultural engagement and apologetics articles for our seminary journal called Bibliotheca Sacra. Nice. So those are the two major things that I do at the center.

3:21

Okay, that's great. Yeah. So your, your podcast veteran, so yeah. So it was it was a no brainer having you on the show today. And we're glad you're just here in California for a brief time. Yeah. So happy to be here. We could sit down and, and, you know, we're kind of talking about the the focus of your dissertation looking at kind of historical Jesus studies. And, and you've been, you've started a little bit I mean, you know, when this releases, it'll be okay, you know, to share this. I know, you've already started on some chapte

Professor Matt Godshall joins Rex and Mark in the studio to finish out their series on ancient Christian practices. Matt discuss the importance of Lectio Divina in his own spiritual life as the three attempt to demystify contemplative prayer.

TRANSCRIPT

0:01

Welcome to Jessup think I'm your host, Mark Moore.

0:04

And I'm your co host, Rex Gurney.

0:06

And we are closing out our series on ancient Christian practices, part three, part three. So and our first part three, Part three series. Yeah, I think our first of many, and I think it was appropriate that it was three parts Trinitarian feel okay to, you know, I'll just make sure we cover that I think we can do

0:26

theological justification for three or seven

0:29

part series. That's all we had. So we get within the the theological world. But now we're really excited to kind of wrap this series up. And we've actually invited guests with us who's been on the show before is a friend of the show, Professor Matt godchaux. He's a New Testament and theology professor here. And we just kind of brought him on to to share some of his experiences with ancient Christian practices, and how they have formed his own spiritual life. And I think you'll really appreciate what he has to offer to our conversation. We hope you enjoy this series and enjoy the closing out of this series. And we hope you sit back and enjoy the episode.

1:18

Well, this is kind of part three of our ancient Christian practices series. And Mallard is excited to have you kind of, kind of with us and bringing in your expertise, and throwing some some questions at you, but just kind of bring you up to speed and maybe our listeners with within this series, we've really looked at the need for structure and discipline in the in the Christian life. And it was something that both for Rex and I was something that was actually very personal. There were stories in our lives, where was it moment in my life when I was in college, and, and I was just kind of tired of not really being a Christian, or not really living, you know, not not having a be a part of my life. But just kind of an add on even though I grew up in the church and, and so for me, disciplines and practices really made my spirituality real. It gave me something to focus on something to do that, that helped it become more a part of my life. And and so we kind of highlight that. And then we really took a dive a little bit deeper into some some of the practices that have been helpful for us. For us some,

2:34

I think the last our last episode, we talked a little bit about ignatian spirituality and the prayer of examine that mark does and working through the spiritual exercises for the second and hopefully, successful time. And anyway, it's all it's all trial and error. That's right. That's right. And you know, there's probably a moral lesson in that too, that at first, you know, it doesn't work for you, it might work for you again, at another time in your life. Yeah, and, and I've certainly found that true.

3:04

That's really true. I think a lot of times people try practices, and then it just doesn't hit them, right. And then they feel like, oh, maybe I failed at it or, and it might just be that that moment in your life. That wasn't the right practice, write and write and move and they're different, and maybe coming back to it in a different time in your life, different amount of maturity, or just even life experience, things like that. Akin and we kind of write those off. One thing I like about the ignition exercises, if we can talk more a little more on those as is I kind of like I think nowadays, we could maybe play off of the the knightly aspect of it. Like it just when I read through it, I feel like there's these, this band of knights that are getting together with, you know, chainmail on and

3:56

yeah, I'm actually at that point of spiritual exercises. And that's something I'm having a struggle through. B