In this episode of the podcast, Margaret reflects on the concept of hope and clinging in situations where someone is sick, injured, or dying. She shares a personal anecdote of a friend's children contracting chicken pox and the introduction of a vaccine as an example of hope versus realism. Margaret then raises questions about the line between hope and clinging in scenarios where someone strives for healing beyond what is expected or accepted.

Margaret also shares a personal experience of her father's terminal lung cancer and the acceptance and preparation for his eventual passing. She reflects on the difference between acceptance and fatalism and the importance of not judging others' situations or reactions.

Margaret remembers an expression used by  Cayce Howe, who provided guidance and support while her husband was in hospice. "The living are dying and the dying are living," is discussed as a way to focus on the present moment and let go of attachment to desired outcomes. Margaret reminds us that it is not wrong to hope or accept expected outcomes, but clinging to desired outcomes can lead to suffering.