The 1965 Frank Herbert novel that gave rise to Denis Villenueve’s new adaptation DUNE drew direct inspiration from the life of T.E. Lawrence, the subject of one of cinema’s towering classics: LAWRENCE OF ARABIA. David Lean’s 1965 film is a celebrated, Oscar-winning classic that’s become shorthand for “big screen epic,” but for every major set piece where Peter O’Toole’s Lawrence seems to consider himself immortal, there’s an accompanying intimate moment where he gives in to his self-doubt. It’s a complexity we see again in DUNE, and which we dig into this week in a conversation about LAWRENCE’s rich and complicated legacy. Plus, our recent episode on REMINISCENCE prompts a listener question about other, better uses of water as a symbolic force.

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