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In this episode of the Crisis in Education podcast, Dr. Paul “Paulie” Gavoni sits down with Michael Waller, an attorney and Executive Director of Georgia Appleseed, to talk about the real work of keeping students safe, supported, and out of the criminal justice system. Drawing from legal, educational, and behavioral science perspectives, they unpack how poverty, exclusionary discipline, and lack of proactive support funnel students — especially kids in poverty and kids of color — from classrooms into courts. The conversation shines a light on what actually works: strengthening schools as prevention hubs, building predictable environments, and giving educators the tools to respond to behavior before it escalates.

🔑 Key Topics Covered

• Why the criminal justice system was never designed for children
• How poverty and school exclusion feed the “school-to-system” pipeline
• The real impact of suspension, expulsion, and “push-out” practices
• What educators can do when they don't control the home environment
• How legal advocacy and behavior science intersect in prevention
• The role of predictable, reinforcing environments in reducing crisis behavior
• Why “safety” must be defined as more than just the absence of violence

If you believe schools should be places of opportunity, not gateways to the system, share this episode with a colleague, educator, or policymaker.
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