Leading with Curiosity. A Podcast for Modern Leaders.

Dynamic Shared Ownership: The Future of Leadership? | Lars Bruening, Bayer

What is Dynamic Shared Ownership, and could it change the future of leadership? In this episode of Leading with Curiosity, Lars Bruening of Bayer explains how Dynamic Shared Ownership is transforming leadership, decision-making, innovation, and employee ownership at one of the world's largest companies.

Lars Bruening, a former CEO of Bayer UK and Ireland and now Dynamic Shared Ownership Catalyst at Bayer Pharma, shares how Bayer is moving away from traditional command and control leadership toward a model where decisions are made closer to the teams, customers, physicians, and patients they serve.

The conversation explores how front runner teams receive greater autonomy and decision rights, allowing them to move faster and create value without relying on multiple layers of hierarchy.

One powerful example comes from Bayer's team in Italy, which developed “Froggy,” a simple 3D-printed tool designed to make injections easier for hemophilia patients. What could previously have taken much longer was brought to market in approximately two and a half to three months.

Lars also explains the shift from “leader as hero” to “leader as host” — a leadership approach focused on creating the right conditions for cross-functional teams to make better decisions, take ownership, collaborate, build trust, and focus on outcomes.

In this episode, we explore:

• What Dynamic Shared Ownership means

• How Bayer is changing its operating model

• Why decentralized decision-making can accelerate innovation

• How front runner teams work

• The shift from command and control leadership

• Leader as hero vs. leader as host

• How autonomy and ownership affect employee fulfillment

• Why cross-functional teams matter

• How leaders can create transparency and trust

• Why Bayer views this as system change rather than simply a culture program

• How focusing on outcomes can create joy and sustainable performance

If you're interested in leadership transformation, organizational change, innovation, shared ownership, decentralized decision-making, and the future of work, this conversation offers a practical look at how a major global organization is experimenting with a different way of working.

🎙️ Guest: Lars Bruening

🏢 Bayer Pharma

🎧 Leading with Curiosity Podcast

🎤 Host: Nate Leslie

What do you think about Dynamic Shared Ownership? Would giving teams more decision-making authority make your organization faster and more innovative?

Subscribe to Leading with Curiosity for more conversations about leadership, organizational transformation, coaching, and creating positive change.

📩 BUSINESS CONTACT

Email: [email protected]

🔗 LINKS

Website: nateleslie.ca

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/nate-leslie-executive-coach

Facebook: facebook.com/natelesliecec

Twitter: twitter.com/natelesliecec

Instagram: instagram.com/natelesliecec

Link in Bio: linkin.bio/natelesliecec

Keywords

dynamic shared ownership, dynamic shared ownership leadership, future of leadership, leadership transformation, leadership innovation, decentralized decision making, organizational autonomy, shared leadership, command and control leadership, Bayer leadership, Bayer Pharma, Lars Bruening, leadership development, organizational change, system change, cross functional teams, front runner teams, decision making, business innovation, employee ownership, future of work, leader as host, Leading with Curiosity

#Leadership #DynamicSharedOwnership #LeadershipTransformation #FutureOfLeadership #Innovation

Are you caught up in busy work that doesn't actually move the needle? What if 30-40% of the work you do every day is completely irrelevant?

In Episode 52 of Leading with Curiosity, host Nate Leslie sits down with Rusty Gaillard—a former Global Head of Finance at Apple and current Silicon Valley performance consultant. Rusty shares mind-shifting perspectives on why leaders need to eliminate unnecessary work and focus on their "Big Rocks," and how mindfulness and compassion are the ultimate tools for navigating workplace conflict.

Plus, discover why the energy you bring to work as a leader isn't just affecting your team—it's literally training the future of AI! If you want to increase your impact, build trust, and stop avoiding difficult conversations, this episode is packed with actionable wisdom.

⏱️ Timestamps / Chapters:0:00 - Eliminating Unnecessary Work and Focusing on Big Rocks07:24 - Building Trust and Navigating Conflict26:28 - The Impact of Words and Actions on AI

🔗 Links & Resources:Take Nate's High-Performance Leader Self-Assessment for FREE: www.nateleslie.ca/giftConnect with Rusty Gaillard: www.rustygaillard.comConnect with Nate on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/natelesliecec/Host: Nate Leslie, www.nateleslie.ca

🎙️ ABOUT LEADING WITH CURIOSITY:We interview leaders, entrepreneurs, and executive coaches challenging old paradigms and fostering cutting-edge leadership.

🔍 Topics covered in this episode:leadership consultant, performance coaching, Rusty Gaillard, Apple executive, eliminating unnecessary work, how to handle workplace conflict, Stephen Covey big rocks, mindfulness in leadership, candor and trust, training AI with human behavior, time management for leaders, Nate Leslie, Leading with Curiosity.

#Leadership #PerformanceCoaching #RustyGaillard #Mindfulness #WorkplaceConflict #NateLeslie #LeadingWithCuriosity #TimeManagement

"Are you looking to improve your brand presence, master business storytelling, and build strong executive presence? Is your company's brand presence in an ""emergency state""?

In this episode of the Leading with Curiosity podcast, host Nate Leslie sits down with Loretta Tarozaite, a former TV journalist and news anchor turned Brand Presence Strategist. Loretta shares her incredible journey from Lithuanian television to helping businesses master the art of business storytelling and executive presence.

Using Nate's own business as a real-time case study, Loretta breaks down why you don't need to be on every social media platform, how to truly humanize your brand, and the simple steps you can take to gain massive media exposure without a full-time PR team. If you want to elevate your corporate brand strategy, this episode is for you!

⏱️ Timestamps / Chapters:

0:00 - Introduction & Command and Control Leadership

1:21 - Loretta’s Journey from TV Anchor to Brand Strategist

3:11 - Why Camera Gear is ""Noise"" in Storytelling

4:40 - The Importance of Humanizing Corporate Brands

6:20 - The Brand Presence Checklist (Nate’s Case Study)

11:00 - How to Use Video to Tell Authentic Brand Stories

18:00 - Why You Don’t Need to Be on Every Social Media Platform

27:28 - How to Get Local & International Media Exposure

34:01 - How to Download the Free Brand Presence Checklist

🔗 Links & Resources:

Get Loretta’s Free Brand Presence Checklist at: www.loreta.today

Connect with Nate on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/natelesliecec/

Host: Nate Leslie, www.nateleslie.ca

🎙️ ABOUT LEADING WITH CURIOSITY:

We interview leaders, entrepreneurs, and executive coaches challenging old paradigms and fostering cutting-edge leadership.

🔍 Topics covered in this episode:

brand presence, executive presence, business storytelling, brand presence strategist, how to humanize your brand, PR for small business, media exposure, corporate storytelling, brand strategy, leadership podcast, Nate Leslie, Loretta Tarozaite, Leading with Curiosity.

#BrandPresence #ExecutivePresence #BusinessStorytelling #LeadingWithCuriosity #Leadership #NateLeslie #LorettaTarozaite #BrandStrategy"

What is the difference between a story and a narrative? And why does it matter for the future of your business?

In Episode 50 of Leading with Curiosity, host Nate Leslie sits down with Guillaume Wiatr, founder of Metahelm and creator of the Strategic Narrative methodology. Guillaume explains why a narrative is much more than just marketing—it's a system of stories that shapes your mindset, language, and daily actions.

In a vulnerable and authentic live coaching session, Guillaume uses Nate's own business transition as a case study. They dive deep into scaling a coaching business, overcoming imposter syndrome, and developing a unique perspective through "seed content" and the "ideas gym."

⏱️ Timestamps / Chapters:0:00 - Introduction & Guillaume Wiatr's Background2:30 - The True Definition of a "Strategic Narrative"7:46 - The 3 Layers of Narrative: Language, Mindset, Actions9:39 - Why People Pay for a Story But Die for a Narrative12:35 - Live Coaching: Scaling Nate's Business & Imposter Syndrome25:14 - What is Perspective Development?34:23 - The "Seed Content" Method (Publishing Without Fear)38:53 - Going to the "Ideas Gym"42:41 - Where to Find Guillaume Wiatr & Metahelm

🔗 Links & Resources:Take Guillaume Wiatr's FREE Strategic Narrative Assessment: https://www.metahelm.com/assessmentTake Nate's FREE High-Performance Leader Self-Assessment: https://nateleslie.ca/gift/Connect with Guillaume on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/guillaumewiatr/Connect with Nate on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/natelesliecec/Guillaume's Website: www.metahelm.comHost: Nate Leslie, www.nateleslie.ca

🎙️️ ABOUT LEADING WITH CURIOSITY:We interview leaders, entrepreneurs, and executive coaches challenging old paradigms and fostering cutting-edge leadership.

🔍 Topics covered in this episode:strategic narrative, Guillaume Wiatr, Metahelm, business storytelling vs. narrative, how to scale a coaching business, perspective development, leadership consulting, overcoming imposter syndrome in business, seed content strategy, Nate Leslie, Leading with Curiosity.

#StrategicNarrative #GuillaumeWiatr #BusinessStorytelling #Leadership #NateLeslie #LeadingWithCuriosity #BusinessGrowth #PerspectiveDevelopment

Does military leadership just mean "command and control"? And what was it really like inside Nokia during their toughest transitions?

In Episode 49 of Leading with Curiosity, host Nate Leslie sits down with Peter Forsberg, Head of Global HR at AB Enzymes. With over three decades of leadership experience spanning the Armed Forces, AstraZeneca, and Nokia, Peter shares profound insights into authentic, human-centered leadership.

They discuss why one-size-fits-all management fails, how to effectively lead decentralized global teams across different cultures, and the incredible culture of respect at Nokia—even during its most difficult days. If you want to learn how to pressure-test your ideas and become a more humble, impactful leader, this episode is packed with wisdom!

⏱️ Timestamps / Chapters:
0:00 - Introduction & Peter's Fascinating International Background
2:01 - Learning Leadership in the Military at Age 20
3:34 - Why "One-Size-Fits-All" Motivation Fails
5:47 - How to Manage a Decentralized Global Team
8:24 - The 4 Traits of Great Global Leaders
13:42 - Why Humble Leaders "Pressure Test" Their Ideas
18:42 - Dispelling the Myths of Military Leadership
24:20 - Stepping Off the "Treadmill": The Value of Leadership Offsites
26:28 - What It Was Really Like to Work at Nokia

🔗 Links & Resources:
Take Nate's FREE High-Performance Leader Self-Assessment: www.nateleslie.ca/gift
Connect with Nate on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/natelesliecec/
Host: Nate Leslie, www.nateleslie.ca

🎬 WATCH MORE FROM LEADING WITH CURIOSITY:
▶️ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AarKlM53kDw
▶️ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6pIgTLKW0s&t=2s
▶️ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AI-8GsIzdqo
▶️ https://youtu.be/qikbQY0YDhE
▶️ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu-Yt0YChhE&t=4s

🎙️ ABOUT LEADING WITH CURIOSITY:
We interview leaders, entrepreneurs, and executive coaches challenging old paradigms and fostering cutting-edge leadership.

🔍 Topics covered in this episode:
Peter Forsberg, AB Enzymes, Nokia leadership, global HR strategies, military leadership lessons, decentralized teams, humble leadership, cross-cultural management, human resources podcast, leadership development, Nate Leslie, Leading with Curiosity, corporate culture, executive coaching.

#Leadership #GlobalHR #Nokia #MilitaryLeadership #PeterForsberg #NateLeslie #LeadingWithCuriosity #HumbleLeadership #TeamManagement

What does it really take to perform at your highest level?
In Episode 48 of Leading with Curiosity, host Nate Leslie sits down with Ben Sporer, PhD to explore a powerful approach to high performance: understanding the difference between output and outcomes.
Ben explains why high performers should focus on the things they can actually control—their preparation, actions, consistency, recovery, and ability to deliver the required output—rather than becoming overly focused on outcomes they cannot fully control.
Drawing from his experience in Olympic sport, elite performance, and performance strategy, Ben shares practical insights into preparation, personal context, goal setting, recovery, sleep, and sustainable high performance.
In this conversation, Nate and Ben discuss:
- The difference between output and outcomes
- Why winning isn't always the best measure of performance
- How preparation helps athletes respond to unexpected challenges
- Why copying elite athletes' routines can be a mistake
- The importance of personal context when setting goals
- How to define realistic and honest performance objectives
- Why recovery is essential for long-term performance
- The problem with hustle culture
- How sleep can influence cognition, decision-making, and performance
- Why working smarter can be better than simply working harder
- How to measure progress based on your own objectives
One of the most powerful examples in the conversation is Ben's story of a downhill mountain biker whose chain broke during competition. Despite an unpredictable event, years of preparation and the ability to focus on controllable outputs helped create the capacity to respond. Pasted text
Whether you're an athlete, executive, entrepreneur, coach, or leader, this conversation offers a practical way to rethink performance and success.
⏱️ Chapters
00:00 Introduction & Ben Sporer's Performance Background
04:18 The Mountain Biker Story: Preparation Under Pressure
06:57 Building Capacity for Unexpected Challenges
08:41 Output vs. Outcomes: What Can You Control?
10:23 Why You Can't Simply Train Like a Professional Athlete
14:08 Measuring Performance by Your Output
17:16 Defining Success on Your Own Terms
20:16 Personal Goals, Honesty & Contentment
23:37 Long-Term Planning & Measuring Progress
26:46 Why Common Sense Isn't Common Practice
29:49 Forced Recovery & the Problem With Hustle Culture
31:14 Working Smarter vs. Working Harder
33:05 Sleep, Recovery & Performance
34:48 Key Takeaways on High Performance
35:29 Find Ben Sporer & His Book Output
36:09 Closing

Connect with Ben Sporer:
Output Book: output-book.com
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/bensporer
Instagram: @outputbook
Connect with Nate Leslie: www.nateleslie.ca

🎬 WATCH MORE FROM LEADING WITH CURIOSITY:
▶️ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AarKlM53kDw
▶️ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6pIgTLKW0s&t=2s
▶️ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AI-8GsIzdqo
▶️ https://youtu.be/qikbQY0YDhE
▶️ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu-Yt0YChhE&t=4s

About Leading with Curiosity:
Leading with Curiosity features conversations with leaders, entrepreneurs, and executive coaches who challenge old paradigms and explore new approaches to leadership and high performance.

🔍 Topics covered in this episode:
Ben Sporer, high performance coaching, output vs outcome, Olympic sports science, Vancouver Whitecaps FC, elite athlete training, hustle culture myth, sleep and performance optimization, forced recovery, Nate Leslie, Leading with Curiosity, business performance, executive coaching podcast.

#HighPerformance #BenSporer #Leadership #Olympics #ExecutiveCoaching #NateLeslie #LeadingWithCuriosity #Productivity #Recovery

Did you wake up one day realizing you just don't love your career anymore?

Before you make an emotional decision to quit, there’s one important question you need to ask: What problem are you actually trying to solve?

In Episode 47 of Leading with Curiosity, host Nate Leslie sits down with Randi Roberts, an ICF-certified coach and host of *The Fulfilling Career, Happy Life* podcast.

After a 30-year corporate career in pharmaceuticals, Randi now helps professionals navigate career transitions and make better decisions about whether to stay, make changes, or move on.

In this conversation, Nate and Randi explore the difference between a mentor and a coach, why you need to “go slow to go fast,” and how understanding your core values and non-negotiables can help you make better career decisions.

Through real client examples, they explore both sides of the career transition question: when staying and changing your current situation is the right answer—and when leaving is the better path.

If you're unhappy at work, considering a career change, or simply wondering whether your current career still fits who you are, this episode offers practical questions to help you think before you make a major move.

⏱️ CHAPTERS:

00:00 – Introduction & The Reality of Career Transition
02:33 – Randi's 30-Year Corporate Career Journey
05:26 – The Difference Between a Mentor and a Coach
11:43 – Should You Stay or Leave? Find the Root Problem
13:45 – “Go Slow to Go Fast” in Career Decisions
14:32 – Case Study: Fixing the Culture Instead of Quitting
18:36 – Preparing for Difficult Career Conversations
22:19 – When Leaving Is the Right Move
23:45 – Core Values & Career Non-Negotiables
26:49 – How Randi Approaches Values Assessment
28:14 – Free Career Resources & The Right Time Guide

🔗 LINKS & RESOURCES:

Randi's Career Satisfaction Assessment & Right Time Guide:
www.randirobertscoaching.com

Nate's High-Performance Leader Self-Assessment:
www.nateleslie.ca/gift

Connect with Nate Leslie:
www.nateleslie.ca

🎬 **WATCH MORE FROM LEADING WITH CURIOSITY:**

▶️ https://youtu.be/XX5PsQdoTHc
▶️ https://youtu.be/MXOqdoe5hzY
▶️ https://youtu.be/OBW9D9we4qE
▶️ https://youtu.be/OYzB_qttJpM
▶️ https://youtu.be/ZmDUsBpsT6w

🎙️ ABOUT LEADING WITH CURIOSITY:
Leading with Curiosity features conversations with leaders, entrepreneurs, and executive coaches who challenge old paradigms and explore better ways to lead.

🔍 TOPICS COVERED:

career transition, career change, career coaching, executive coaching, career satisfaction, Randi Roberts, Randi Roberts Coaching, mentor vs coach, career advice, core values, career non-negotiables, leaving a job, should I quit my job, career fulfillment, professional development, leadership coaching, Nate Leslie, Leading with Curiosity.

#CareerTransition #CareerChange #CareerCoaching #RandiRoberts #ExecutiveCoaching #CareerAdvice #NateLeslie #LeadingWithCuriosity

What does it really take to perform at your highest level?
In Episode 48 of Leading with Curiosity, host Nate Leslie sits down with Ben Sporer, PhD to explore a powerful approach to high performance: understanding the difference between output and outcomes.
Ben explains why high performers should focus on the things they can actually control—their preparation, actions, consistency, recovery, and ability to deliver the required output—rather than becoming overly focused on outcomes they cannot fully control.
Drawing from his experience in Olympic sport, elite performance, and performance strategy, Ben shares practical insights into preparation, personal context, goal setting, recovery, sleep, and sustainable high performance.
In this conversation, Nate and Ben discuss:
- The difference between output and outcomes
- Why winning isn't always the best measure of performance
- How preparation helps athletes respond to unexpected challenges
- Why copying elite athletes' routines can be a mistake
- The importance of personal context when setting goals
- How to define realistic and honest performance objectives
- Why recovery is essential for long-term performance
- The problem with hustle culture
- How sleep can influence cognition, decision-making, and performance
- Why working smarter can be better than simply working harder
- How to measure progress based on your own objectives
One of the most powerful examples in the conversation is Ben's story of a downhill mountain biker whose chain broke during competition. Despite an unpredictable event, years of preparation and the ability to focus on controllable outputs helped create the capacity to respond. Pasted text
Whether you're an athlete, executive, entrepreneur, coach, or leader, this conversation offers a practical way to rethink performance and success.
⏱️ Chapters
00:00 Introduction & Ben Sporer's Performance Background
04:18 The Mountain Biker Story: Preparation Under Pressure
06:57 Building Capacity for Unexpected Challenges
08:41 Output vs. Outcomes: What Can You Control?
10:23 Why You Can't Simply Train Like a Professional Athlete
14:08 Measuring Performance by Your Output
17:16 Defining Success on Your Own Terms
20:16 Personal Goals, Honesty & Contentment
23:37 Long-Term Planning & Measuring Progress
26:46 Why Common Sense Isn't Common Practice
29:49 Forced Recovery & the Problem With Hustle Culture
31:14 Working Smarter vs. Working Harder
33:05 Sleep, Recovery & Performance
34:48 Key Takeaways on High Performance
35:29 Find Ben Sporer & His Book Output
36:09 Closing

Connect with Ben Sporer:
Output Book: output-book.com
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/bensporer
Instagram: @outputbook
Connect with Nate Leslie: www.nateleslie.ca

🎬 WATCH MORE FROM LEADING WITH CURIOSITY:
▶️ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AarKlM53kDw
▶️ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6pIgTLKW0s&t=2s
▶️ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AI-8GsIzdqo
▶️ https://youtu.be/qikbQY0YDhE
▶️ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu-Yt0YChhE&t=4s

About Leading with Curiosity:
Leading with Curiosity features conversations with leaders, entrepreneurs, and executive coaches who challenge old paradigms and explore new approaches to leadership and high performance.

🔍 Topics covered in this episode:
Ben Sporer, high performance coaching, output vs outcome, Olympic sports science, Vancouver Whitecaps FC, elite athlete training, hustle culture myth, sleep and performance optimization, forced recovery, Nate Leslie, Leading with Curiosity, business performance, executive coaching podcast.

#HighPerformance #BenSporer #Leadership #Olympics #ExecutiveCoaching #NateLeslie #LeadingWithCuriosity #Productivity #Recovery

Are you truly awake, or are you sleepwalking through life in survival mode?
In Episode 45 of *Leading with Curiosity*, host Nate Leslie sits down with wisdom teacher and philosopher Sophie McLean to explore spiritual awakening, true wisdom, mindfulness, and the power of silence.
After 35 years of seeking truth and living in major global cities, Sophie moved to the Mediterranean to embrace what she calls the “flow of creation.” Drawing on her guide, *Awakening All Sleepwalkers*, she explains how we often trap ourselves in self-created cages by reacting to imagined dangers instead of facing reality.
Sophie also shares a remarkable personal story about being stranded in a hotel in New Delhi and locking eyes with the Dalai Lama. This silent encounter profoundly changed her understanding of nothingness, awareness, and the power of silence.
In this thought-provoking conversation, you'll discover why some people choose to awaken while others remain stuck in survival mode, how hardship can become a catalyst for growth, and why technological progress doesn't always translate into greater human wisdom.
If you're ready to face discomfort, challenge your assumptions, and see life from a new perspective, this episode will inspire you to rethink what it truly means to be awake.
⏱️ TIMESTAMPS / CHAPTERS
0:00 – Introduction: Why You'd Have to Be an Idiot to Want to Be a Guru
1:20 – Awakening vs. Sleepwalking: Which One Are You?
6:16 – Moving to the Mediterranean and the Flow of Creation
8:08 – Giving It All Away: Writing *Awakening All Sleepwalkers*
12:09 – Why Do Some People Take the Risk to Awaken?
17:22 – What Is True Wisdom?
22:24 – Why Technology Has Surpassed Our Humanity
25:32 – Surviving Imagined Danger: The Butterfly vs. the Rhinoceros
27:56 – The Remarkable Story of Locking Eyes with the Dalai Lama
32:31 – Embracing the Power of Silence and Nothingness
🔗 LINKS & RESOURCES
Explore Sophie McLean's Work
Sophie's Guide and Resources: https://www.sophiemclean.com/
The Power of Awakening Course: https://www.sophiemclean.com/the-power-of-awakening-course
Connect with Nate Leslie
Free Leader Self-Assessment: https://www.nateleslie.ca/gift
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natelesliecec/
Website: https://www.nateleslie.ca/
🎬 WATCH MORE FROM LEADING WITH CURIOSITY:
▶️ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AarKlM53kDw
▶️ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6pIgTLKW0s&t=2s
▶️ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AI-8GsIzdqo
▶️ https://youtu.be/qikbQY0YDhE
▶️ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu-Yt0YChhE&t=4s
🎙️ ABOUT LEADING WITH CURIOSITY
*Leading with Curiosity* explores the ideas, experiences, and insights of leaders, entrepreneurs, and executive coaches who challenge conventional thinking and inspire meaningful growth.
Subscribe for more conversations on leadership, personal development, self-awareness, and new ways of thinking.
🔍 TOPICS COVERED
Sophie McLean, Awakening All Sleepwalkers, spiritual awakening, mindfulness, imagined danger, overcoming survival mode, the power of silence, inner peace, true wisdom, the Dalai Lama story, consciousness, human nature, personal growth, Nate Leslie, Leading with Curiosity.
#SpiritualAwakening #SophieMcLean #LeadingWithCuriosity

How to Build a Business with BOTH Success & Integrity | Bessi Graham | Ep. 44
Can you do good in the world **AND** make money—or do you have to choose between profit and purpose?
In Episode 44 of *Leading with Curiosity*, host Nate Leslie sits down with **Bessi Graham**, serial entrepreneur, CEO advisor, and former counterterrorism professional, to challenge the outdated belief that businesses must prioritize profit over purpose.
Bessi shares why the most successful businesses integrate their values into their core strategy—and how leaders can create meaningful impact without sacrificing financial performance.
In this conversation, you'll discover how to embrace the **Both/And Mindset**, why **ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance)** can be a competitive advantage, and what counterterrorism can teach us about leadership, human psychology, and decision-making.
Whether you're an entrepreneur, CEO, executive coach, or aspiring leader, this episode offers fresh perspectives on building a business that delivers both financial success and lasting social impact.
⏱️ CHAPTERS
00:00 – Introduction to Bessi Graham & Counterterrorism Leadership Lessons
03:15 – Two Camps of Business Leaders: External vs. Internal Impact
08:56 – Our Unconscious Relationship with Money
10:45 – The Myth of Profit Maximization and Shareholder Value
14:02 – Why ESG Is a Competitive Advantage
19:10 – The Business Roundtable's Five Stakeholders
24:26 – The Both/And Mindset: Doing Good AND Making Money
27:31 – Case Study: Fixing a Struggling Business Model with Purpose
34:41 – Why Your Business Model Is Never Truly Finished
37:21 – What Counterterrorism Teaches Us About Leadership and Human Psychology
🔗 CONNECT WITH BESSI GRAHAM**
Website: https://www.bessigraham.com
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@bessigraham8839
🎯 RESOURCES FROM NATE LESLIE**
Take the FREE Leader Self-Assessment:
https://www.nateleslie.ca/gift
Connect with Nate on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/natelesliecec/
Website: https://www.nateleslie.ca
🎬 WATCH MORE FROM LEADING WITH CURIOSITY
▶️ https://youtu.be/OYzB_qttJpM
▶️ https://youtu.be/ZmDUsBpsT6w
▶️ https://youtu.be/2ZrWkWX_kZk
▶️ https://youtu.be/k3LxaHgneAc
▶️ https://youtu.be/fzoqW7KbjvQ
🎙️ ABOUT LEADING WITH CURIOSITY**
Leading with Curiosity explores new perspectives on leadership through conversations with inspiring leaders, entrepreneurs, and executive coaches who challenge traditional thinking and explore better ways to lead.
If you're interested in leadership development, ethical business growth, executive coaching, organizational culture, and building purpose-driven businesses, subscribe to the channel for more insightful conversations.
🔍 TOPICS COVERED IN THIS EPISODE
Bessi Graham, doing good and making money, ESG strategy in business, counterterrorism leadership, business model strategy, ethical business growth, profit maximization myth, Both/And Mindset, social impact business, business integrity, leadership development, executive coaching, Nate Leslie, Leading with Curiosity podcast.
#BusinessGrowth #Leadership #BessiGraham #SocialImpact #NateLeslie #LeadingWithCuriosity #BusinessStrategy #ExecutiveCoaching