Former submarine commander David Marquet joins EconTalk's Russ Roberts to explore how distancing--thinking like someone else, somewhere else, or sometime else--can unlock better choices in business and life. They talk about leadership without giving orders, how to empower teams, and what it means to see yourself as a coach rather than a boss. Along the way, they discuss Jeff Bezos's leap to start Amazon, Steve Jobs' unique vision, and how a simple mindset shift can transform a struggling crew--or your career. A conversation about thinking clearly under pressure, avoiding regret, and becoming the kind of leader who creates other leaders instead of followers.