The infamous McMartin Preschool trial epitomized the daycare abuse hysteria of the 1980s. What began with unsubstantiated allegations by a mentally ill parent spiraled into a seven-year legal battle, costing $16 million and leaving lives shattered—without a single conviction. Through flawed investigations, suggestive interviews, and sensational claims, the case raised critical questions about justice, credibility, and the power of mass panic. Join us as we explore the events, the fallout, and the lessons learned from one of America’s most controversial trials.

SPECIAL THANKS TO OUR VOICE ACTORS:

Frank Pira as Police Chief

Lee Rawles as Kee MacFarlane

Ken Sutherland as 9th Circuit Appeals

Conrad Saam as Professor Douglas Linder

Doreen Wiley as Attorney Lael Rubin

Jon Enge as Attorney Dean Richard Gits

Evan Dicharry as Attorney J. Daniel Davis

Gyi Tsakalakis as Dr. Michael Maloney

Georgia Well as Peggy Buckey

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John Echohawk has served as Executive Director of the Native American Rights Fund (NARF) since 1977. Under John's inspired and continuing leadership, NARF has successfully asserted and defended the most important rights of Indians and tribes in hundreds of major cases, and has achieved significant results in such critical areas as tribal sovereignty, treaty rights, natural resource protection, voting rights, and Indian education.

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Being a good lawyer is a lot about great storytelling. Unfortunately, that’s often not taught in law school. Facts build the case, but effective storytelling wins the case. 

Guest Robert Mattson is an experienced corporate communications leader and coach. But his skills go beyond that. He acts in and writes plays. He is also the founder and principal at Intrigue Communications and Coaching. He helps people not simply communicate but also tell a story. 

When you’re in front of a jury or arbitrator, you’re performing. It’s part of our everyday lives. Are you consciously telling the story that will help your client achieve the best outcome? 

Facts are vital. No argument there. But having the skills to help your audience understand those facts, embrace them emotionally, and understand what they are hearing is every bit as important. Mattson explains how understanding how stories are told makes you a better communicator. It’s more than an art, it’s a science. (Plus, he shares the three most important words in storytelling.) 

If you have thoughts on Workers’ Comp law or an idea for a topic or guest you’d like to hear, contact us at [email protected]. 

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Four years ago, on January 6th, 2021, our U.S. Capitol was under siege by supporters of Donald Trump who tried to stop a joint session of Congress from certifying the electoral votes of the 2020 presidential election. Fast forward to 2025, Donald J. Trump is about to take office as President and the fate of those convicted of January 6th crimes lies in his hands.

In this episode, Craig is joined by Kimberly Wehle, professor of law at the University of Baltimore School of Law and author of the book, Pardon Power: How the Pardon System Works—and Why. Craig & Kim take a look back at January 6th, the possibility of Trump pardoning those convicted of federal crimes stemming from January 6th, and the implications this could have on our society and our legal system.

Mentioned in This Episode:

Los Angeles Times: Hundreds of Capitol Riot Prosecutions in Limbo as D.C. Court Awaits Trump’s White House Return By Alanna Durkin Richer and Michael Kunzelman 

 Pardon Power: How the Pardon System Works—and Why by Kimberly Wehle

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It was the 80s, man! The Xennial microgeneration (born between 1977 and 1983) is, arguably, the best generation, but growing up in the magical, tech-free 80s wasn’t actually entirely happy-go-lucky. TV and movies of the era loved inflicting psychological scars on children, so Jared takes a therapeutic moment to get all that emotional damage off his chest.  

Next—what you’re actually here for—insights on legal technology, conferences, products, and more! Jared welcomes Jobst Elster of InsideLegal to get his take on the latest trends. They discuss technology use in law firms and spend time hashing out why legal tech conferences are still a pretty essential part of tech education and making connections with progressive, reputable vendors. 

And, lastly, the Rump Roast! As it turns out, Jobst has a serious barbeque hobby, so, in homage to the name of this segment, he and Jared talk about the literal roasting and smoking of delicious meats.

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A playlist full of...meat?

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Jobst Elster is the Head of Content/Legal Marketing Strategy at InsideLegal.com.

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Digital information management is a delicate balancing act, connecting the moving parts of a busy legal operation with the information technologists who manage the data. How do you pull an entire office together and manage and leverage all that information? 

Guest Stephanie Clerkin is the Director of Litigation Support at Korein Tillery and a 2024 recipient of the Gayle O’Connor Spirit Award, which celebrates e-discovery and legal technology leaders who make noteworthy contributions to the fields of e-discovery, legal tech, information governance, cybersecurity, and data privacy. The award is named for the late Gayle O’Connor. 

Hear some of the secrets of bringing people together around technology (even dragging along some of the stragglers who have “always done it this way”). You’ll learn to adapt to different styles, demonstrate the value of efficient data management, and sometimes do more with less. Legal tech and data management never sleeps. Helping everyone – from support staff to senior attorneys – keep up is a challenge. 

Finding a mentor, establishing a work life balance, and mastering technology test us all, but Clerkin has tips you can put to work now. 

Mentioned in This Episode:

Gayle O’Connor Spirit Award announcement

Relativity e-discovery platform

Relativity certifications

Make-A-Wish Young Professionals

NALA Conference & Expo 2025

NALA, The Paralegal Association

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In this episode, Stephanie talks with Michael Bungay Stanier, the author of The Coaching Habit, about his new book How to Work with (Almost) Anyone. They discuss how successful law firm leaders know how to effectively coach teammates and how to foster what Stanier calls the ‘Best Possible Relationships’ (BPRs). This discussion emphasizes the importance of curiosity over advice-giving, and the need for psychological safety in both client and employee relationships. The discussion is rich with practical insights and actionable strategies for improving workplace dynamics and fostering better communication, including how to have a Keystone Conversation and build better self-awareness in leadership. 

Links from the episode:  

Check out Michael's books 

MBS Works 

Women & AI Summit 

Chapters

00:00 - Women + AI Summit 

04:08 - Michael Bungay Stanier Insights 

11:34 - Understanding BPR (Best Possible Relationship) 

15:30 - Keystone Conversations Explained 

19:53 - Qualities of a Great Team Member 

23:20 - Getting Started with Effective Practices 

26:31 - Importance of the "Read Me" Document 

28:50 - Finding Michael Bungay Stanier Online 

29:10 - Exploring More of Stanier's Work 

29:45 - Outro 

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Attorneys yearn for the commute.

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Sullivan & Cromwell are bringing attorneys back to the office five days a week. The stated reason is to mirror "normal business hours" which is a cruel joke in an abnormal business hour industry. Democratic Party superlawyer Marc Elias faces an uprising at his firm after staff proposed a mandatory arbitration agreement despite many of his top clients openly campaigning on... banning mandatory arbitration agreements. Finally, Wilson Sonsini hands out bonuses but pulls a fast one with special payments.

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Gaze into the depths with Gyi and Conrad, so you, too, can be prepared for the legal marketing days to come. This one’s all about the future, folks! 

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Well, and the past. First, an in-depth retrospective on whether Gyi and Conrad’s 2024 predictions showed true seer potential (or phony-baloney tendencies). Then, the guys turn a preternatural eye to what lies ahead. What mystically foretold trends will dominate the legal and marketing landscapes of 2025? From super-spammer AI avatars to, of course, another Michigan win—Gyi and Conrad can see it all. 

The News:

Suggested LHLM Episodes:

Conrad’s Crystal Ball: The Re-Re-Return — Sponsored by CallRail 

Connect:

The Bite - Lunch Hour Legal Marketing Newsletter!

Leave Us an Apple Review 

Lunch Hour Legal Marketing on YouTube 

Lunch Hour Legal Marketing on TikTok

Chapters (Times Approximate)

(0:00) Hail to the Victors

(2:05) Google, Lying Lawyers, ChatGPT, and Meta all in the News!

(13:47) 2024 Predictions in Review

(24:45) 2025 Lawyer Marketing Prognostications

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If last year was when generative artificial intelligence went mainstream, could this year be the one when it gets even bigger? Will we see more people, law firms, companies and government agencies adopt, use or integrate it into their day-to-day activities? Will we see more rules and regulations from states or the federal government regarding its use? What about law schools and generative AI? Will we see more start to teach it? And will lawyers finally learn more about what to do, or not to do, when it comes to using it?

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