The authors of In Covid’s Wake: How Our Politics Failed Us, political scientists Stephen Macedo and Frances Lee, join for a full-show interview to discuss our failures during the pandemic. The evidence shows non-pharmaceutical interventions did nothing, but the tradeoff was trillions of dollars in deficit spending, lost learning and solitary deathbeds. Plus, Pete Hegseth may be leaking more than leadership; after his second round of Signal-based scheming, the veteran Fox-man-turned-defense-secretary is reportedly on the chopping block.

Produced by Corey Wara

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