Making Business Matter (MBM)

Episode 23 - Interview With Crisis Negotiator, Ross Hardy

Ross Hardy spent a decade as a cliff-edge crisis negotiator at one of the world’s most notorious suicide spots. The team he founded and led there became the busiest search and rescue team in the UK and has rescued 1000’s of people to date. The leadership lessons that he learned in those years, he now teaches through Discovery Hope, a UK based leadership consultancy. His latest online course Smart Thinking For Times of Crisis is available on Udemy and teaches tools for self, team, and organisational leadership for times of crisis and high pressure.

You Can Read the Transcript of Our Interview Below:

Nathan Simmonds:

Welcome to another Sticky Interview with MBM, Making Business Matter. It's the home of, and soft skills provider to the retail and manufacturing industry of the UK. This podcast, the whole idea about this podcast is to be sharing great thinkers, and great concepts, and great ideas with you, to help you be the best version of yourself, especially in this time that we're living in right now with the crisis that are happening.

Nathan Simmonds:

Today, sharing the interview space with Ross Hardy, someone who's got phenomenal experience in crisis situations, in crisis negotiation, in crisis communication. And I'll introduce him shortly with a little excerpt from his bio, which is astonishing reading, and it comes with astonishing experiences. Ross Hardy spent a decade as a cliff edge crisis negotiator in one of the worlds most notorious suicide spots. The team he founded and led there became the busiest search and rescue team in the UK, and has rescued thousands of people to date.

Nathan Simmonds:

Just to add a little note in there, I live just down the road from this spot, Ross and I know the areas very well, locality and geographically. And yeah, world famous. The leadership lessons that he learned in those years, he now teaches through Discovery Hope, a UK based leadership consultancy.

Nathan Simmonds:

His latest online course, Smart Thinking for Times of Crisis, is available on Udemy we'll talk a bit more about that later, and teaches tools for self, team, and organizational leaders for times of crisis and high pressure. It's not just about today, in the day and age of COVID-19, it's about the crisis that was probably on people's tables 12 weeks ago, it's all about the crisis that will be on people's tables 24 weeks from now. This may be unprecedented times, but these are not unprecedented circumstances, or ways of thinking. This is why it's vital.

Nathan Simmonds:

Ross, massive thanks for being here, really appreciate you taking the time to have this conversation. Going to dive straight into this with some of the things. I want to find out why you do what you do. We've had a little bit of a conversation. I want to find out why you do what you do, and I want you to tell the world why you do what you do.

Ross Hardy:

Okay. Well firstly, as you mentioned, I spent 10 years as a crisis negotiator. I led a team of crisis negotiators on a cliff edge, dealing with people who were coming out to end their lives. Some actually from all over the world to that single spot. And in that time, I had an awful lot of experiences of people in crisis of course, learning how to manage people in crisis, throughout crisis negotiation techniques that we would use, and also learning how to lead myself, to lead a team, and to lead an organization that's dealing with crisis on a daily basis.

Ross Hardy - crisis negotiator

 

The crisis of people who were coming to Beachy Head, that's the place I was based, with the intention of ending their lives. But also, the kind of crisis that normal organizations come across, and crisis that were unique to that organization, the risks of the life of a team, the challenges in fund raising, and lots of different things that were associated around a kind of unusual workspace if you like.

Ross Hardy:

So that was my experience for 10 years. And as I stepped out of that, I realized that I'd began to realize that there were so many opportunities to share the skills, and the learning that I developed over that time with others, particularly in how we manage ourselves, our teams, and our organizations in preparation for, and during times of crisis.

Ross Hardy:

So that's primarily why I do what I do, because I'm passionate about leaders, I'm passionate about leaders ability to influence the world, to influence their world, to transform their organizations, to actually build organizations that really make a difference. And so I'm very excited to help equip leaders to be better equipped to manage themselves, their teams, and their organizations during those challenging times that we face. And obviously, at the time of we're doing this, of course, particularly challenging times with the pandemic, Coronavirus and all the lockdowns.

Nathan Simmonds:

Yeah. And I think the interesting crossover, you talked about that leadership of the self. So the skills that you learned going through that process, and then how you reapplied them to yourself, super important. One thing that I am a big proponent of is self-leadership first. You cannot give more to someone else than you have yourself, therefore, if you're not able to take the lead on yourself, you cannot lead a situation.

Nathan Simmonds:

And no one managed their way out of a crisis. It takes leaders, internally, externally; full-works. So it's interesting, when you're looking at, say, a suicide hotspot like that, where people don't know, and I'm aware of the sensitivity of this, they don't know what the next step is, they can't see the next future step, and they can't lead themselves out of that situation. So the only course of action they have, is to complete in that exercise.

Nathan Simmonds:

And again, scale up, you transfer that over into business. Business people making themselves redundant, or taking actions which aren't appropriate to the growth of that business in tricky situations. It's the same kind of thinking that creates that detrimental outcome, I think is the closest I can get to that.

Ross Hardy:

Yeah.

Nathan Simmonds:

Super important. So how did you become a crisis negotiator? Because I mean, it's not kind of the line of work you suddenly look for a job, "Oh, look, there's a post in the Job Center, I think I'll go and do that because it sounds interesting." There's a calling that comes with that for sure, Ross.

Ross Hardy:

Absolutely. I mean, I actually, I used to be a church leader. Led a couple of churches, spent a whole number of years leading churches. And I was actually just praying one Sunday morning, and then I got such an impression about ... I live local to this suicide spot. And I knew the situations that were going on there, and they were in the paper week in, week out, the recoveries, and so on.

Ross Hardy:

And so it was very much something I've been aware of for many years. But I just suddenly really got such an impression about the importance of reaching these people. And I had, in my mind, this picture of these two people paroling Beachy Head, reaching out to the suicidal, actually going out, and interacting with people on the cliff edge, and actually hopefully interacting with them in such a way to deescalate crisis, and get them to choose life.

Ross Hardy:

And so it really started from there. I had started actually with very little clue of how to do it. We just started putting things together. And we learnt a lot from some materials we had from the FBI crisis negotiation units in Quantico. Also, we had bits and pieces from various different sources that we brought together to start to develop a training to actually implement crisis negotiation with these people at Beachy Head.

Ross Hardy:

So it took us about a year from that moment. I think it was a year and one week before we became operational. And we started with a little team of six. So yeah, so that was back in 2003, and we began in August 2004.

Nathan Simmonds:

I've got to ask you though, there is a level of sensitivity with what you were working in at this point. And I'm aware, working in middle management groups predominantly, that there is a reticence to ask questions, there is a hesitation to get involved with people where mental health is prevalent. So whether it's an anxiety attack, PTSD, different whatever. A lot of leaders feel nervous about asking the right question, or asking any question, because they feel it may be right or wrong, it may be taken the wrong way, they have a fear it may make the situation worse.

Nathan Simmonds:

So in having that fear, they then therefore, they don't take any action at all. How do you do about ratifying your content, your questions, and your approaches before you go out there on the edge, and actually go into the ‘real’ as it were?

Ross Hardy:

Well one of the things we actually realized quite quickly as we began to assess how best to negotiate a crisis, hopefully for someone to choose life. We realized actually, we couldn't beat around the bush. We couldn't actually, we couldn't kind of side step the major questions. So we actually had to begin to face the crisis people were struggling with head on.

Ross Hardy:

Now, there were variations in this, but they would ... And it's extreme, it would be, the person that I was convinced was suicidal on a cliff edge, I would simply, one of my first questions after introducing myself would be, "So what's brought you to the point of wanting to commit suicide?" I would get directly to the point that they, of why they've come there, and what was in their mind, and then we'd talk from there.

Ross Hardy:

Then we've ... I've already said, "Actually, it's safe to talk about this stuff. You're not going to suddenly surprise me, you're not going to suddenly overwhelm me with your response." And I think that's often what can happen in our communication. We're so good at replying to,...

Episode 22 - Good Customer Service: Interview With 'Canada’s Marketing Superstar', Marc Gordon

Marc Gordon is an internationally recognised thought leader in the field of customer experience. With over 25 years of marketing and sales experience in a number of diverse industries, he has built a reputation for providing insightful concepts that are both innovative and effective.

As an award-winning keynote speaker, Marc has spoken for some of the world’s most respected companies, including Bausch & Lomb, Hilton Hotels, and Mondelez International. Marc is the only speaker in his field to have keynoted at the World Management Forum in Tehran, Iran.

Regularly featured on television and radio for his opinions, Marc has shared his thoughts on topics that include the boycotting of brands, customer service in the airline industry, and companies such as Facebook and Starbucks. Marc has been referred to as 'Canada’s marketing superstar' by the Oprah Winfrey Network. Today, we discuss good customer service in more detail.

You Can Read the Transcript of Our Interview Below:

Nathan Simmonds:

Today I have the pleasure of introducing Marc Gordon. His bio here, again, I'm overwhelmed, I'm staggered at the wonderful people that I get to have a conversation with, their resumes, what they've achieved, what they've accomplished and the areas of expertise they have. Marc Gordon is no exception to this. He is an internationally recognized thought leader and the field of customer experience, with over 25 years of marketing and sales experience in a number of diverse industries. He also has a reputation for providing insight or concepts both innovative and effective.

He's an award winning as a keynote speaker. He's spoken with some of the world's most respected companies including Hilton Hotels, Bausch + Lomb, Mondelez International. He's also the only person to have spoken in his area of expertise at the World Management Forum in Tehran in Iran, which itself is pretty staggering. His regularly featured on TV and radio for his opinions. He shares his thoughts on topics that include the boycotting of brands, customer service in the airline industry and companies such as Facebook and Starbucks. Marc has been referred to as Canada's marketing superstar by the Oprah Winfrey Network. Mic drop right there.

Nathan Simmonds:

Marc, thanks very much for being here, they really appreciate it.

Marc Gordon:

My pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Marc Gordon

 

Nathan Simmonds:

I got introduced to you a few months ago, it feels like forever ago, just to talk to you about the different ways that you look at customer service, what a good customer experience is, customer expectation and how you manage these as a provider of product or service and as that dialogue opened up there was just so much good stuff in here to share from your ways of thinking and your approaches to these things that can help so many people out, and so many businesses, small, medium enterprises and leaders in their space, it would have been remiss of me not to get you on here and have this conversation that's for certain.

Marc Gordon:

Well thank you.

Nathan Simmonds:

The first question from me is always why do you do what you do?

Marc Gordon:

Wow. Boy, you start off with the serious questions right away don't you? All right. Give me a sec. If I can just open up about this I guess a little bit. So why, that's a great question.

Marc Gordon:

I guess it starts with the fact that going back as a kid in elementary school I was one of these kids that didn't quite fit in. I wasn't one of the cool kids, I wasn't one of the smart kids, I wasn't one of the athletic kids. I didn't seem to fit into any group and back then when you didn't fit in you became a target for bullying, and through much of school I was bullied relentlessly. It was a time when, unlike today, where it's taken seriously, back then parents, teachers, everyone just shrugged and said, "Kids will be kids."

Marc Gordon:

When you are growing up in that kind of environment in school you don't really fit in, you find yourself a target for aggression a lot, you spend a fair amount of time on your own, and in doing so you tend to observe other people. You're kind of on the outside looking in and this was the case for me because I found myself just watching other people. I would spend my lunch hours or recess or whatever, free time, when the other kids were playing, I would just be walking around.

Marc Gordon:

Without even realizing it I was observing what relationships were and the dynamics between them and the impact of aggression and passiveness and just the different dynamics of relationships and how people became friends and enemies and everything else. I didn't realize it at the time, but it ingrained in me certain values and certain beliefs. Then as I grew up in my teens and 20s when I started to get involved in owning businesses and starting businesses I realized that this behaviour carries through into the outer world as well and even today, whether you're in your 20s, your 30s, your 40s or beyond, the fact is there is still bullying going on. It's still happening.

Marc Gordon:

So, it's happening by customers who are demanding or making unreasonable demands on businesses. It's happening with suppliers that are making unreasonable demands on their customers. It's happening with competitors who are trying to put you out of business. They may be using some form of bully tactic and it may not be open aggression towards you, but at its very core all of this is a form of aggression.

Marc Gordon:

I see it so often now and I'm sure you do as well in the marketplace, there doesn't seem to be that attitude of abundance. It seems to be a view of scarcity, that for every client you have or that you attain that means that's a client that I have to lose. So that means for me to succeed you have to fail. A lot of businesses seem to have that attitude.

Marc Gordon:

My belief has always been there's enough to go around. It might be a bit of a cliché, but the fact is my belief is if the customer isn't buying from me or doesn't want to buy from me they were never mine to begin with or if I have a customer and they choose to leave for whatever reason they were never mine. We can't control people, but a lot of businesses would like to do that.

Marc Gordon:

So over the last 10 years or so as I moved away from really being a service provider or a business owner in the way of products, I was in the auto industry for the better part of a decade, I started to get in the consulting, I really found myself focusing on the whole relationship aspect of business and how all the things that we see as human beings and the way we communicate with each other, how that translates into how we communicate with each other on a business level, on a professional level.

Marc Gordon:

It's all those things that I think I absorbed over the years of what I went through in school, but also dealing with people now much like you and I deal with, where we see the different dynamics and different personalities and different traits and how they impact each other and people's desire to want to connect with you or to step away and have nothing to do with you.

Marc Gordon:

I guess at the end of the day my why is really about wanting people to understand that in business, much like outside of business, in your personal life, it's really about relationships. That's it at the very, very core and whether you want to call it customer experience or customer service or anything else, it's about making people feel valued and appreciated and that's the core of it.

Nathan Simmonds:

Great. That's interesting. I experienced bullying as well when I was at school. Again, you and I are similar ages in that kind of development, it wasn't discussed, it wasn't talked about and as you were saying that reminded me how I spent time doing the people watching, learning how conflicts played out and watching how different conflicts played out and how certain behaviors took the lead on and controlled different elements of that.

Nathan Simmonds:

So it's interesting that you bring that to the forefront in this and looking at these things from a customer experience point of view. Again, how my thinking shifting is, is looking at those people in some sense, those people that are interacting with you on a daily basis, they are your customers in some way, shape or form and they're coming to you because they want something and whether it's schoolyard bullying, they're coming to you because they want something. Okay, well how do you deal with that?

Nathan Simmonds:

How do you manage that experience so that it's a win-win for everybody, not at the detriment because of that bullying that you end up in that feeling of lack where if you get one client that means I lose one, when actually how do you become worthy rivals? How do share the competitiveness to drive each other to be better than you were yesterday, rather than diminishing or depreciating yourself or somebody else through conflict and through that aggression.

Nathan Simmonds:

That stuff just expands and grows and evolves up into adult life, so you see these wounded leaders walking around hurting other people. Why? Because they were probably bullied or they were bullies at school and as a result of that they just carve it into their professional life, they then cascade that down to their staff, who then cascades that back out to your customers. So it's being conscious about the knock on effect of how we are managing our experience for everybody, internally and externally.

Marc Gordan:

Exactly, and it's interesting what you were saying that... I find when people grow up they obviously bring with them whatever they organically absorbed and experienced when they were kids and it's interesting, I find those who were bullied tend to take one of two routes....

E21 - How Do We Return to Work? Interview With HR Expert and Owner of Stonechat HR Consulting, Becky Neale

Becky Neale is a proven, commercially focused HR leader leading large-scale HR teams for the likes of RWE nPower, Labrokes, and Accolade Wines. Operates as part of senior leadership teams, devises and sets HR strategies aligned to the wider organisational goals, designing culture and values-based programs to support the development and evolution of operating models, associated change management and employee engagement. A hands-on operator who empowers teams and communicates in a natural, down to earth style with the ability to remove complexity in fast-paced commercial organisations. Today, we discuss how we return to work.

You Can Read the Transcript of Our Interview Below:

Nathan Simmonds:

Welcome to Sticky Interviews. I'm Nathan Simmonds, Senior Leadership Coach and Trainer for MBM, Making Business Matter, the home of sticky learning. We are the provider of leadership development and soft skills training to the grocery and manufacturer industry. The idea of these interviews is to share great ideas, great concepts and great ways these skills are being used to help you be the best version of you in the work that you do. Welcome to the show.

Nathan Simmonds:

Welcome to today's interview. I have the pleaser of interviewing Becky Neale today. HR Director, expert. I've got a phenomenal bio on here which is worth reading just in itself, and then we're going to get into some serious questions about high performance teams. About the return to work which is so very poignant for right now as we're recording this video, stores opening and people going back to business. But also, other businesses returning their people from home as well. And also looking at employee engagement off the back of that which is why I wanted to have this conversation with Becky and the direction that I'll get to know you went previously just expose so many challenges that are going to come up in the future.

Nathan Simmonds:

So, with a proven commercial focus, HR leader, leading large scale HR teams for the likes of RWE, Empower, Ladbrokes and [inaudible 00:01:28]. Operates as part of a Senior Leadership team, devises and sets HR strategies aligned to wide organizational goals. Big stuff. Designing culture, values based programs. Support the development and evolution of operating models, associated change mangement employee engagement. These are all big things, especially for HR Directors working in a global space.

Nathan Simmonds:

But even though it's big, global, it's also hands on. She's a hands on [inaudible 00:01:54] who empowers her team, communicate in a natural down to earth style. And the best bit about the conversations that I've had with Becky before now is that she takes that complexity and makes it easy for people to understand, especially in fast paced environments. This is why I wanted to share some of this. As I said, it's high performance team, employee engagement. And the elephant in the room, the return to work, which I think even in normal circumstances was an elephant in the room in itself, let alone now as it's environment that we work in and the ecosystem we're working in changes.

Nathan Simmonds:

So Becky, welcome to Sticky Interviews. Thanks for being here, thanks for sharing your team. First question from me which is probably the most important question, why do you do what you do?

Let's here Becky's reason

 

Becky Neale:

Hi, thank you for having me. I guess I just really enjoy working with large teams, leadership teams setting strategy and direction. Really then just drilling down from that in terms of making them operational plans, working with employees, wider groups from the management, the leadership team and where appropriate if you have a union, union in that organization. It's the variety, it's the complexity, and it's really driving them through and seeing results and taking employees on the journey that just really floats by boat, ticks my boxes if you like.

Nathan Simmonds:

I love the fact that you said in that, taking these large ideas, drilling down, linking people to unions, employee safety, psychological safety. [inaudible 00:03:35], when we use all those different elements and actually make them work together. So actually I think that's the first time you've used some of those words in a conversation with me so it's actually refreshing to hear you say them.

Becky Neale:

You can't do it on your own, you have to involve all of those groups. It's the key to success in making these change projects work.

Nathan Simmonds:

And it's exactly that. Because if you try and swing too much to one bias, it creates the bias. So if you have a large organization that has their viewpoint and their way of working, that's not going to fit to everybody in your business. And you have to have the cross sections and the different dynamics so you make sure that actually, you're giving the fairest and most reasonable approach to all the people in your care as an HR lead.

Becky Neale:

Yeah, and ultimately if you don't take your people on the journey with you, whatever change you're trying to make, whatever business goal objective you're trying to achieve, you won't do it. You will come across resistance, you will have people taking different roads and tangents. They all need to be aligned, all need to be adding value and all going in the same direction. You can only do that by involving them, engaging them, communicating and setting the right culture.

Nathan Simmonds:

There was that push pull scenario with the stubborn donkey. You're trying to get the donkey to move forward, you're trying to pull it and it's pulling backwards. Actually you might get somewhere very slowly if you're lucky, but it's going to be a painful, drawn out process.

Becky Neale:

Yeah, and I guess that's why really in changes you need to focus on your early adopters rather than your [inaudible 00:05:09] and those that don't want to join in. Because you can't gear everything to the lowest common denominator in any change that you make, but you do have to factor and consider those in.

Nathan Simmonds:

So when you're setting up that plan, or when you're setting up that change that you're going through, do you formulate a structure of what your early adopters are and then how you then incorporate your laggers, and how you cross the chasm to bring the next group of people in at the same... later on in that journey.

Becky Neale:

Yeah, I think you have to come up with a change management plan. You have to look at all the groups. How are they going to be impacted? How are they going to feel personally about these changes? And work through the different groups the different scenarios and complexities and questions and resistance factors they are all going to bring. You almost need to create the personas for each group. So Dave the bus driver and these are his concerns. Sarah the administrator, these are concerns. Jeff the cleaner, these are his concerns etc, and build out each of the characters, what they stand for, the issues that that grouping will potentially throw at you and the resistance. What they can actually bring to enable and to help. You've got to look at it from lots of different angles to be able to build the plans to take it forward.

Becky Neale:

You just do it in isolation of management team want to implement X, Y and Z and we're going at it, straight down the tracks then it won't land as well.

Nathan Simmonds:

And I haven't heard it put that way, because that's the same as doing a client avatar, doing a customer avatar.

Becky Neale:

Yeah, it is.

Nathan Simmonds:

So when you have your own business and you create your own business, okay, this is my demographic. They are of this age, of this gender. This is what's important to them. Okay, how do we make sure we get the message to that person in the language that they understand. Brilliantly as you put across here is well actually, what are they going to bring to the equation or to the situation that's going to help to move the project forward? What are their strengths? What are they going to enjoy demonstrating that's going to make it work even better, regardless of what the leadership team says they want or what they think is the best thing. How do we get everybody involved in that?

Becky Neale:

Yeah, and if you take your early adopters particularly, they can show others. It's not just that management said this was a great idea, actually it is. Look what's happened in my team, look what's happened here as a result of it. It's working, it's doing the right thing. Yes, these are the teething problems we've found, but we've listened to people, we've asked for opinions and now we're focusing on this. It's almost like jump on the train, come with us. It's actually not that bad. Have a look at what we're achieving, see what we're doing. Come and be part of it.

Becky Neale:

And that's what you hope and you rely on really with your early adopters and people who are really engaged with the changes that you're trying to make.

Nathan Simmonds:

And you build a momentum in that. [crosstalk 00:07:46] mentioned just [Jeff Burch 00:07:47] before we got into this conversation, we've just done the first of our sticky lunches with Jeff. The quote that stands out for me that he shared was, "The change inflicted is a change resisted."

Becky Neale:

Absolutely.

Nathan Simmonds:

Getting those people on board, just creating that snowball effect just so it chugs a little bit further and then goes a bit further and then more people. And you build up that pressure, the positive pressure to enable the thing to happen as a way it happens.

Becky Neale:

Yeah. This isn't just for your large scale change project. This is for any change that you want to make. The more you involve employees, the more you engage with them, the more you listen to them, their ideas,...

Episode 20 - Effective Communication Skills: Interview with Suzie Parkus

Suzie Parkus is a sought after motivational and educational speaker, trainer and soon to be author. Her expertise lay in all things communication, from interpersonal skills, relationships, emotional intelligence, networking intelligence and most importantly in today's day and age, how our state of mind affects how we act, react and interact.

Good emotional hygiene is often overlooked, but once understood, unlocks the key to that all-important human connection. Today, we discuss all things communication.

You Can Read the Transcript of Our Interview Below:

Nathan Simmonds:

Okay. I'm paper really, got my drink. Welcome to another Sticky Interview. My name's Nathan Simmonds. I'm Senior Leadership Coach and Trainer for MBM, Making Business Matter, the home of Sticky Learning. We are the soft skills' provider to the UK retail and grocery industry. Now, the idea of these podcasts is to be sharing great thinkers, great approaches, concepts and ideas that are going to help you and your teams be the best version of their selves so that they can deliver the best possible results even in a time of crisis like this.

Nathan Simmonds:

Today I'm going to be speaking to friend, peer, coach, mentor, all of those things. Someone that I speak to regularly about communication and collaboration, Suzie Parkus. And reading her bio... although I've known her for some years, I want to read this bio. She is a sought after motivational and educational speaker, trainer, and soon to be author. Her expertise lay in all things communication, absolutely it does; from interpersonal skills, relationships, emotional intelligence, networking intelligence because we need to be intelligent when we're networking.

Nathan Simmonds:

And most importantly in today's day and age, how our states of mind affects how we act, react and interact. Good emotional hygiene is often overlooked. But once understood, unlocks the key to that all important human connection. Suzie, thank you very much for being here and part of this interview today.

Suzie Parkus:

Thanks for having me.

Nathan Simmonds:

I'm looking forward to asking you some questions about this because we met, three years ago? Two years ago. Three, it must be three years ago now.

Suzie Parkus:

February, 2018.

Nathan Simmonds:

There you go. Okay, two, in personal development seminar and we got talking eventually after that event. One of the key things that I've always struggled with is how I communicate intentionally, how I work with people, how I offer my services, and how I make contribution first rather than about what I can take from people. And there's a lot of that going on. So my key first question for you is, why do you do what you're doing?

Suzie Parkus

 

Suzie Parkus:

Why do I do what I do? I think this kind of came to me when I was doing a talk last year, if I'm honest. I was given the opportunity to just take the floor and they changed the nature of the interview. In this opportunity to just kind of talk from my heart, I said something that has never left me, which is that I never got seen, heard and noticed when I was younger. It just came out as unconscious stream of thoughts. Then it got me thinking that now I do get seen, heard and noticed and part of what I do is helping other people do the same. But it's not just that PR publicity piece. It's about interacting with sort of class and confidence and consideration. I've never been interacted with like that growing up.

Suzie Parkus:

And so, I'm very sensitive to what it feels like not being, I didn't know, not having my feelings taken into consideration when being approached, I guess. I'm very sensitive towards others when I'm communicating with them. And that's actually the biggest piece. That's the IQ, well, the emotional intelligence. I try and ask people to get their head around first before opening their mouth so they can make sure that they are aware of not just how they're coming across but how they're making other people feel. And I think that's really where it came from. If I dial it all back, it's very much about my own experience. It's just ironic that I have a degree in communication studies when I actually wants to be a lawyer. So, it pretty always cuts out for this work.

Nathan Simmonds:

There is that class that you talk about and the presence that people come to. And it doesn't matter whether you're in a network, an event, building a relationship with a future spouse or working in a retail factory environment. You want to get a message across and you need to be taking into account people's feelings. And it's, people just don't do it. They don't think about it. On MBM, we have a... Darren started to talk about the don't shout campaign.

Nathan Simmonds:

What he meant by this is when we're giving feedback, now we don't stand there and scream at people. We don't shout at them and tell them what to do because no one likes being told what to do. You go over there and you have a level of respect for that individual's feelings and you approach them and make them the most important person in the conversation first and foremost, and then develop the relationship so that actually you can work together.

Suzie Parkus:

I would say first of all feedback is always great. That's kind of how our relationship started, giving you feedback on stuff, bearing in mind that we'd gotten to know each other first before asking for that. So yeah, constructive feedback is awesome, unsolicited feedback is not. That's where you start hurting people. You said about intention before. So, all forms of communication has an energetic charge. And this might sound a little bit on the woo-woo spectrum for some, but we feel a charge behind people's words. Two people could say the same thing and depending on what you're wanting to achieve when you're expressing it, it can hurt or it can elevate.

Suzie Parkus:

So that intention behind what you're saying has as much impact as what you're saying. That constructive feedback you're talking about. If I'm giving you some feedback and I want to see you develop yourself into the best version of you, it's coming from a nurturing, loving place. So my energy behind that is only going to be of a nurturing feeling. But if I was say jealous, judgemental, intending to pull you down, you're going to feel small as a result of that constructive feedback.

Nathan Simmonds:

Agreed. Every conversation has an emotional charge behind it. I've learned, and this is in various different religious texts from thousands of years ago. In short, it says what you think of people is how you treat them. That thinking might be based on a situation or a stress that you've got, but when you front load that conversation and then run into it and scream or make it unsolicited. Even asking for permission is vital. It might not be solicited. Gaining that person's trust to build the relationships, I've got some information that's going to be vital to support you and your successes. Is it okay that I give you that information? When that person says yes, then we can approach them. We can give that feedback.

Nathan Simmonds:

But if we're going in as a point of judgment and I'm thinking, you're an idiot, you're not good at your job, it doesn't matter what I think I'm saying; people can read between the lines, they can feel what you're thinking before you even say the words. They did a science test. They did it with plants where they subjected one plant to abuse and one plant to love and attention.

I think it was in a school. So they actually tested it with bullying in a school to prove a point. And the plant that was subjected to the bullying and abusive language actually died. It's just, it's incredible. So bearing in mind that we actually hold quite a lot at a cellular level, similarities to plants, when you're giving someone that intention, that abuse, that language, that shouting behavior, it's going to have a negative impact on you in some way, shape or form. And it's not okay to be treating people like that.

Suzie Parkus:

So can I go a bit scientific with you?

Nathan Simmonds:

Absolutely you can.

Suzie Parkus:

Okay. There's a very famous that go [inaudible 00:07:33] in water. I think I might have even told you about it before. And so, that experiment you're talking about, yes, it's been done on plants. Yes, it's been done on an apple. It's been done on lots of things. Where there is a high concentration of water, basically as beings we are 70% water and in that experiment that Masaru Emoto does, there's love written on a piece of paper with a Petri dish of water. One that says hate, same thing with the Petri dish of water. As the water evaporates, crystals are left behind. And then what's left is beautiful crystals above the love and ugly ones above the hate.

Suzie Parkus:

His whole point is, our words carry a charge, exactly what you're saying. So it's exactly what I said before, because if I'm saying something to you from a bad intention, I'm actually sending negatively charged particles your way, if you like, and it will hurt. The same is true about how we talk about ourselves. If we're not feeling good in ourselves right now and we're giving ourselves negative self talk and then we go to communicate with someone else, we're then projecting what we feel about ourselves onto somebody else as well. So this points a lot going on internally that we then start to project externally.

Nathan Simmonds:

Great. And chronically we could go down a really sciency route with this. I am aware of the water test where they did with that and it showed that when the water crystals under love and positivity, the elements froze or formed symmetrically, whereas under the stress they formed asymmetric. Like you say, in ugly shapes and forms. Then you talked about kind of the negative self talk.

But it doesn't matter if someone else is projecting th

E20 -  Effective Communication Skills: Interview with Suzie Parkus

Suzie Parkus is a sought after motivational and educational speaker, trainer and soon to be author. Her expertise lay in all things communication, from interpersonal skills, relationships, emotional intelligence, networking intelligence and most importantly in today's day and age, how our state of mind affects how we act, react and interact.

Good emotional hygiene is often overlooked, but once understood, unlocks the key to that all-important human connection. Today, we discuss all things communication.

You Can Read the Transcript of Our Interview Below:

Nathan Simmonds:

Okay. I'm paper really, got my drink. Welcome to another Sticky Interview. My name's Nathan Simmonds. I'm Senior Leadership Coach and Trainer for MBM, Making Business Matter, the home of Sticky Learning. We are the soft skills' provider to the UK retail and grocery industry. Now, the idea of these podcasts is to be sharing great thinkers, great approaches, concepts and ideas that are going to help you and your teams be the best version of their selves so that they can deliver the best possible results even in a time of crisis like this.

Nathan Simmonds:

Today I'm going to be speaking to friend, peer, coach, mentor, all of those things. Someone that I speak to regularly about communication and collaboration, Suzie Parkus. And reading her bio... although I've known her for some years, I want to read this bio. She is a sought after motivational and educational speaker, trainer, and soon to be author. Her expertise lay in all things communication, absolutely it does; from interpersonal skills, relationships, emotional intelligence, networking intelligence because we need to be intelligent when we're networking.

Nathan Simmonds:

And most importantly in today's day and age, how our states of mind affects how we act, react and interact. Good emotional hygiene is often overlooked. But once understood, unlocks the key to that all important human connection. Suzie, thank you very much for being here and part of this interview today.

Suzie Parkus:

Thanks for having me.

Nathan Simmonds:

I'm looking forward to asking you some questions about this because we met, three years ago? Two years ago. Three, it must be three years ago now.

Suzie Parkus:

February, 2018.

Nathan Simmonds:

There you go. Okay, two, in personal development seminar and we got talking eventually after that event. One of the key things that I've always struggled with is how I communicate intentionally, how I work with people, how I offer my services, and how I make contribution first rather than about what I can take from people. And there's a lot of that going on. So my key first question for you is, why do you do what you're doing?

Suzie Parkus:

Why do I do what I do? I think this kind of came to me when I was doing a talk last year, if I'm honest. I was given the opportunity to just take the floor and they changed the nature of the interview. In this opportunity to just kind of talk from my heart, I said something that has never left me, which is that I never got seen, heard and noticed when I was younger. It just came out as unconscious stream of thoughts. Then it got me thinking that now I do get seen, heard and noticed and part of what I do is helping other people do the same. But it's not just that PR publicity piece. It's about interacting with sort of class and confidence and consideration. I've never been interacted with like that growing up.

Suzie Parkus:

And so, I'm very sensitive to what it feels like not being, I didn't know, not having my feelings taken into consideration when being approached, I guess.  I'm very sensitive towards others when I'm communicating with them. And that's actually the biggest piece. That's the IQ, well, the emotional intelligence. I try and ask people to get their head around first before opening their mouth so they can make sure that they are aware of n...

Episode 19 - Team Building and Teamwork: Interview With Oliver Bailey from Harvest for Heroes

The son of publicans from South London, Oliver Bailey attended Dulwich College school, leaving in 1994. Beginning his career in Recruitment, he founded his first businesses in 1998. He has since owned and acquired further businesses in varying fields, including Information Technology, Construction, and Energy. In recent years, Oliver has focussed on Healthcare, where is an owner and Director of Remedy Healthcare Solutions, a leading provider of insourced and outsourced diagnostic services to the NHS. He recently founded Harvest For Heroes, a fundraising initiative to supply free, fresh produce to our NHS front line workers. Today, we discuss teamwork in more detail.

You Can Read the Transcript of Our Interview Below:

Nathan Simmonds:

Welcome to Sticky Interviews. I'm Nathan Simmonds, Senior Leadership Coach and Trainer for MBM, Making Business Matter, the home of Sticky Learning. We are the provider of leadership development and soft skills training to the grocery and manufacturing industry. The idea of these interviews is to share great ideas, great concepts, and great ways these skills are being used to help you be the best version of you in the work that you do. Welcome to the show.

Nathan Simmonds:

Today I am speaking with an interesting, exceptional, and very focused individual. I've seen some of his posts on LinkedIn, I've seen the interviews on the BBC News, and I had to reach out and have a conversation with this gentleman about his work, what he's doing right now in the midst of COVID-19, if we're in the middle of it, the beginning of it, the end of it, I have no idea.

Nathan Simmonds:

With the stresses that the services, our national services are experiencing, Oliver stepped up in this, pivoted with his business idea, and he's supporting them with fresh fruit and vegetables, and providing this to NHS workers because they're under so much stress they're not able to think and make healthy decisions about what they're doing in their grocery shopping. He's stepping in with a charity organization that makes this happen for them at their doorstep, delivering them fresh fruit and vegetables at the hospitals, at source, at location to help them so they can focus their thinking onto the most important task, which is making sure people live. I don't think I can be any more explicit about that, to be honest, Oliver.

Oliver Bailey:

No, that's pretty good.

Team building and team work with Oliver Bailey

 

Nathan Simmonds:

I said this before, and I was going to say it again, from me, and from everyone already you're helping no doubt you're getting loads of thanks for this, I want to say thank you from us, from everyone else that you've touched. You're doing incredible work. Please, explain why you do what you do, what you're doing in probably a clearer way than I could ever imagine to.

Oliver Bailey:

Well, I appreciate your support on this, Nathan, and anyone's interest in it. That's great and it really helps keep us all going. This all started off at Harvest for Heroes, well, I found myself, like lots of people at the moment, with a fair bit of down time that'd been imposed on me, or I should say working from home, and with working from home, a real slow down in my business. As you know, with all the weight of the world, there's only so much you can do at this time because everyone else is busy. I work with the NHS in my professional life, so they've all been dragged away on things far more important than talking to me.

Oliver Bailey:

So I found myself with a bit of time on my hands, and I wanted to do something for my local hospital, which is here in London, Kings College Hospital. I've got a lot of love for them. Two of my children were born there. My son, Henry, was born a couple of years ago there with a rare form of spina bifida, and a really stressful time for us all looking back. When he was a year old, he was taken in to be operated on, when he was a bit stronger, and their rock star neurosurgeon, [Azul Zabian 00:03:05] and his team fixed him. A seven hour operation. Henry's downstairs running around now. So just amazing, just amazing.

Oliver Bailey:

I'm always, I would say of all of the professions that I watch, I think surgeons are right up there in terms of me talking to someone who struggles to wire a plug or hang a picture, the amazement for these people, and when it's your own kid it's even more so. They fixed him. I've got a lot of love for the hospital.

Oliver Bailey:

I literally phoned them up one afternoon and just said, "Look, what can I do for you? I'm sitting here, the family, we're all driving each other mad. Can I come down and do something? Do some driving, volunteering? Can I bring you some cakes? Coffees? Anything? I don't suppose you want [inaudible 00:03:54] the hospital." They came back to me, and the feedback I got was that they're being inundated with very lovely but not very healthy stuff. So they were overdosing on grapes and donuts and stuff like this, which is all well and good. But they said what they were short of was general fresh produce, fruit, vegetables, and general groceries. That was, if I was going to make a contribution of some kind, then that would be very much welcomed.

Oliver Bailey:

Well, in my ignorance I said, "Well, how does that work? Where are you going to cook all this stuff? You're not cooking there." They rightly pointed out that it was after the long, laborious shifts with frontline doctors, nurses, and anyone else, if I have some stuff to take home with them. We all saw the crying nurse on TV the other day that couldn't get any groceries, they finish all sorts off hours, so that was the thinking.

Oliver Bailey:

But I got [inaudible 00:04:52] from Rachel, my partner, who said to me, "We've just got one of these lovely fruit and veg boxes from New Covent Garden Market," where all of the traders are sitting around because the restaurants, parks, and hotels are shut, so they're now trying to keep their businesses alive by directing into people's homes. And we had this lovely box of produce. Well, I could send them one of those, then.

Oliver Bailey:

So that's what kicked it off, really. I then remembered that I had a friend who I worked with sometime ago, Darren Boroughs, who him and his father had worked in New Covent Garden Market, the biggest fruit and veg market in the U.K. for a couple of generations there. So, I phoned him up and I said, "Look, have you got any ideas around this? I see a demand there, I want to do a good thing, but I just don't know how any of this works." Additionally, I reached out to a couple of suppliers, some who were more enthusiastic than others, some I had to chase, and some who came back to me.

Oliver Bailey:

Anyway, Darren knew lots of people in the market. I basically said, "Well go away and see what the most fresh fruit and veg provisions that you can get in a box for the lowest amount of monies," and he went off and did that. That afternoon, I had thought of a name, Harvest for Heroes, which that's one of the things I pat myself on the back for, I think it's got quite a ring to it.

I sort of got a Zoom thing going, I wrote a few mates in, so I got Darren on the Zoom, and I got chap who's doing the website for our business at the moment on there, and I got a friend of mine who'd worked for Facebook, and another chap who's a management consultant. And they also have got loads of time on their hands like me. I just thought, "I'll get a few brains together and give them my idea, and see what they think."

Oliver Bailey:

Well, I was used to talking to hospitals all day, Darren's used to fruit and veg, something [inaudible 00:06:38] than me with social media. And the chap with the website and branding, he was really keen because he said, "I'd love to get involved with a project like this! This is what I want!" We were all loving to get involved in a project that doesn't make us any money but has got this feel good factor. That's what was great about this. You know, I've run the marathon for charity, and raised a few quick for bowel cancer, and done a few things, but I had never done anything like this, I'm not a serial fundraiser.

Oliver Bailey:

But I think looking at everyone's pictures on Zoom, I've never seen everyone so excited about something that wasn't a massive commercial venture for us all. But everyone said the same thing, "Oh, we want to get involved in something like this." And we did. We had a chat, we formed it, we got a domain, Ollie went off and started doing the branding and the website and whatnot, I started a Just Giving page, and we started speaking to family and friends.

Oliver Bailey:

That's a little over two weeks ago, and we have now raised somewhere in the region of 27,000 pounds. We've been out to see 16 hospitals delivering these fruit and veg boxes. It seems to be being received really well. We have been on BBC News, we've been a couple of radio things, had a couple of articles on us, and it's quite a simple idea, but it seems to be being received really well, and we're having a blast doing it. I've got a new baby to carry now, so I started to realize that, but it's a nice challenge. So that's us, yeah.

Nathan Simmonds:

The bit that gets me is the team building bit and how quickly everyone's moved on it. One of the things I do a lot of coaching on is talking to people that are doing jobs that actually doesn't fulfill them. They're doing it for the paycheck, and they get to a certain point in their life where they don't feel like they're creating an impact with their lives, or they want to get promoted or whatever it is. And like you said, you just got a group of professional people that have got different expertise in different places and put them in a room, come up with this idea, and everyone's going, "This feels really good. I want to do this,...

E18 – Effective Presentation Skills: Interview With Paddy Willis from Mission Ventures

In this episode, I interview Paddy Willis. Paddy is Founder and CEO of Mission Ventures and has a passion for building better challenger brands. He was co-founder of disruptive baby-food brand Plum, which was sold in year five to Darwin PE in 2010 on retail sales of £15m. Since then he has been mentoring and supporting start-ups across the industry, with the first UK Food accelerator launched in January 2015. Recently, Mission Ventures announced their partnership in The Good Food Fund, a £1.8m fund established by Big Society Capital with Guy’s & St Thomas’ Charity to tackle childhood obesity with market-led solutions. Today, we discuss effective presentation skills.

Paddy Willis – Founder and CEO of Mission Ventures

You Can Read the Transcript of Our Interview Below:

Nathan Simmons:

We are in. Phenomenal. Welcome to another Sticky Interview. My name is Nathan Simmons. I’m senior trainer and coach for MBM, Making Business Matter, the training provider, soft skills provider for the U.K. grocery and manufacturing industry. The idea with these interviews is to be sharing the thoughts and concepts of great people in great spaces doing great work to help you be the best possible version of yourself. Today, I’m speaking to a gentleman I got to meet last week by the name of Paddy Willis.

Nathan Simmons:

Paddy, I’m going to read his bio here. I’m going to tell you why some of this is so engaging for me, though. Paddy is the founder and CEO of Mission Ventures, and has a passion for building better challenger brands. He was co-founder of disruptive baby food brand Plum, which was sold in year five to Darwin PE in 2010 on retail sales of £15 million, which on its own, Paddy, is pretty phenomenal.

Since then, he has been mentoring and supporting startups across the industry with the first UK food accelerator launch in January 2015. Recently, Mission Ventures announced their partnership in the Good Food Fund, a 1.8 million fund established by Big Society Capital with Guy’s and St. Thomas’ Charity to tackle childhood obesity with market led solutions.

Nathan Simmons:

This is where it got interesting for me, why I wanted to, and when I reached out to Paddy, so there’s three elements of this. One is challenger brands. I thought that’s really interesting, disrupting markets. Two, childhood obesity, this is a huge thing that’s going on with the way that the industry is moving.

Then I got thinking, those two facets on their own are difficult enough. What do effective presentation skills… What is a great presenter in that space where you’re talking to companies about challenger brands that may put them out of business potentially or disrupt their market, and also getting people to make moves on the amount of sugars, and salts, and fats, et cetera, they’re putting into their foods, and what sort of skills have you got to have in order to present to that level, to get people to make those shifts?

Nathan Simmons:

Episode 18 - Effective Presentation Skills: Interview With Paddy Willis from Mission Ventures

In this episode, I interview Paddy Willis. Paddy is Founder and CEO of Mission Ventures and has a passion for building better challenger brands. He was co-founder of disruptive baby-food brand Plum, which was sold in year five to Darwin PE in 2010 on retail sales of £15m. Since then he has been mentoring and supporting start-ups across the industry, with the first UK Food accelerator launched in January 2015. Recently, Mission Ventures announced their partnership in The Good Food Fund, a £1.8m fund established by Big Society Capital with Guy’s & St Thomas’ Charity to tackle childhood obesity with market-led solutions. Today, we discuss effective presentation skills.

You Can Read the Transcript of Our Interview Below:

Nathan Simmons:

We are in. Phenomenal. Welcome to another Sticky Interview. My name is Nathan Simmons. I'm senior trainer and coach for MBM, Making Business Matter, the training provider, soft skills provider for the U.K. grocery and manufacturing industry. The idea with these interviews is to be sharing the thoughts and concepts of great people in great spaces doing great work to help you be the best possible version of yourself. Today, I'm speaking to a gentleman I got to meet last week by the name of Paddy Willis.

Nathan Simmons:

Paddy, I'm going to read his bio here. I'm going to tell you why some of this is so engaging for me, though. Paddy is the founder and CEO of Mission Ventures, and has a passion for building better challenger brands. He was co-founder of disruptive baby food brand Plum, which was sold in year five to Darwin PE in 2010 on retail sales of £15 million, which on its own, Paddy, is pretty phenomenal.

Since then, he has been mentoring and supporting startups across the industry with the first UK food accelerator launch in January 2015. Recently, Mission Ventures announced their partnership in the Good Food Fund, a 1.8 million fund established by Big Society Capital with Guy's and St. Thomas' Charity to tackle childhood obesity with market led solutions.

Nathan Simmons:

This is where it got interesting for me, why I wanted to, and when I reached out to Paddy, so there's three elements of this. One is challenger brands. I thought that's really interesting, disrupting markets. Two, childhood obesity, this is a huge thing that's going on with the way that the industry is moving.

Paddy Willis - Founder and CEO of Mission Ventures

 

Then I got thinking, those two facets on their own are difficult enough. What do effective presentation skills... What is a great presenter in that space where you're talking to companies about challenger brands that may put them out of business potentially or disrupt their market, and also getting people to make moves on the amount of sugars, and salts, and fats, et cetera, they're putting into their foods, and what sort of skills have you got to have in order to present to that level, to get people to make those shifts?

Nathan Simmons:

I thought, "This is a person I need to get to know. This is a person I need to ask some questions to, and this is a person [inaudible 00:02:22] interview." Paddy, thanks for being here.

Paddy Willis:

Thank you for the invitation, Nathan, delighted to join you.

Nathan Simmons:

Thank you. So look, one of the first things is, and we talked a little bit about this before, that necessity to create a brand. Why do you do what you do? Originally, it was Plum baby foods, but now you're helping other markets do that disruptive thing that you do. Why do you do what you do?

Paddy Willis:

Well, they always say that if you do what you love you'll never have a job in your life. I think I've probably got that wrong, but you know what I mean. The principle is that if you do what you love, then every day is a great opportunity and great fun. I do what I do, and that's in terms of working with founders and entrepreneurs of, in this case, food and drink businesses, but I have worked with a whole broad range of different sectors over the years because I'm drawn like a moth to the passion and the commitment and the vision of these individuals who often don't...

Paddy Willis:

Particularly, this is very true in the food sector, and this is completely an unscientific observation, but it's based on having worked with food and drink startups over the last five-plus years on our business accelerators is that I would say 85, if not possibly 90%, of founders do not come from within the industry. The reason I think that is, is because if they did come from the industry, they probably wouldn't start because they would realize just what a challenge it is to succeed in this market. It's also been helped by the fact that a lot of barriers to entry have come down.

Paddy Willis:

It's become much easier and resources to things like shared kitchens and consultants, everything else, has become much easier. When we set up Plum back in... We launched in 2006. So it's about the passion for the people and the purpose that they have behind what they do. I'm sure we'll talk a bit about that in some of the context the challenger brands. The other thing, and this we'll come back to, it's irrelevant to the concept of what makes for a good presentation because really it's about story telling, and a good brand is about telling a good story. I always remember. There's a guy called Daniel Priestly, an Australian entrepreneur who I try and think when I heard him speak. It was at a small event for founders. I don't know what it's called. It was 10 years ago.

Paddy Willis:

He talked about the fact that he is a very keen mountain walker, and it's a thing. When you go mountain walking, you know where you're going and you set off up this hill. Which the hill becomes a mountain, and you get to the top, and you eventually get there, and you take in the view around you, but inevitably your eye is drawn to the ridge that it's going to the next peak, and that's going to take you onto the next part of your journey. He says, "But if you were to look down where you've just come from, you would see that inevitably there are going to be people following you in your footsteps, following the paths that you've trodden." He says, "It doesn't really matter what you do," and this isn't exclusive to an entrepreneur.

Paddy Willis:

It could be anybody in a career, and in life in general, is that you will at all different stages in your life, you're starting on a mountain of value, and that's everything that's helped you get to that point in your life. He says the simple thing to do and the pleasurable thing to do is to look behind you and say, "Actually, do you know what? I wouldn't go left there. I'd go right because I tried left and it was a bit tricky. I went right and I'm here." So it doesn't really matter whether you're five minutes ahead of somebody, or five hours ahead of them or five years ahead of them, or 50 years ahead of them. There is always this concept of being able to share with people what you've learnt on that pathway, and that's what I love doing.

Paddy Willis:

I do a lot of mentoring, do a lot of activity particularly around helping our young students to understand the world of entrepreneurship, open their eyes to possibilities as and when they eventually get into the workplace. So it really comes down to working with people with passion, and wanting to try and share that journey, share what I've learned from standing on whatever mountaintop I might be on, or even the mountain I might be halfway up. Wherever you are, it's just helping to pay that back.

Nathan Simmons:

Exactly, and that is why I do what I do. With 23 years in leadership positions, I have made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of errors. I've failed countless times of being knocked back from interviews, by being frustrated at myself, and it's not about denying, and I've learned the difference between pain and suffering. It's not about denying people the pain because you need the pain to make the movement, but it's helping people to make the movement faster so they don't wallow in it, and then it becomes suffering.

They don't do anything, and then it takes them longer to extract that goodness out of where they're going. If you can pass that back one year, two years, five years, 20 years to someone else that they're at a turning point in their journey at 23 rather than 43, and I say that leadership and parenting are not two sides of the same coin.

Nathan Simmons:

They're exactly the same thing, and you want the people in your care to supersede you. No parent in their right mind wants their child to be equal to less than them. They want them to supersede them. So when you go and mentor and business coach or do all those things, you want that person to supersede you, so they can go do something incredible. That comes from people like you, by sharing some of that wisdom to help them go left instead of right at the right time, phenomenally powerful.

Paddy Willis:

I'm a great believer in karma and what goes around, comes around, and all these other phrases that basically mean that you treat others as you wish to be treated. So everyday I'm learning something new. I wish I'd been braver to ask for help and mentorship when I was younger, but there was sort of a sense that I had in my head, if no one else has it, just in my head that I just got to figure out for myself, and the reality is that there are so many things that I don't...

You're absolutely right. You learn far more from the failures than you do from the successes, and successes you just think, "Oh, that was good." And then you carry on and do a bit more, but actually, when it doesn't work out, that's when you sort of think, "Well, why didn't it work out?" You're forced to rethink about it and readdress it.

Paddy Willis:

Yeah, so I think for anyone in leadership positions or aspiring to a leadership position,...

Episode 17 - Situational Leadership: Interview With 'The Magician', Jay Raham

In this episode, I interview Jay Raham. Jay is an award-winning lecturer, consultant, and public speaker. With a vision to enhance the practice of leadership at a global level, so far he's worked with 7000+ aspiring managers in Mauritius, Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore and Morocco. He refers to himself as 'The Magician', creating magical moments impacting innovation, creativity, and sustainability. Recently, Jay has been pushing what he sees as 'professional excellence' to another level; achieving 5 Fellowships, a unique accomplishment taking his skill set to a new level and helping others to think outside of the box. Here, we discuss situational leadership.

You Can Read the Transcript of Our Interview Below:

Nathan Simmonds:

Welcome to Sticky Interviews. I'm Nathan Simmonds, Senior Leadership Coach and Trainer for MBM, Making Business Matter, the home of Sticky Learning. We are the provider of leadership development and soft skills training to the grocery and manufacturing industry. The idea of these interviews is to share great ideas, great concepts and great ways these skills are being used to help you be the best version of you in the work that you do. Welcome to the show.

Nathan Simmonds:

We're digging into some different territory with this next conversation. So I've got the pleasure of speaking to Jay Raham. We've had a bit of a conversation to and fro through LinkedIn. We've had a little bit of a look at each other's leadership aspirations and we are both super-enthusiastic about leadership as a whole and have big visions about what we want to create and what, but I'm not going to spoil that part yet until we get into that. I'll let Jay share that one.

Nathan Simmonds:

First of all, let me introduce him completely by some of his accolades and his current celebratory points along his journey. So he's an award-winning lecturer, consultant and public speaker. He has the vision to enhance the practice of leadership at a global level and he's already doing this through his training of aspiring managers in Mauritius, Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore and Morocco which, in itself, is pretty astounding for any leadership trainer. In fact, he's already clocking up over 7,000 leaders so far that he has supported, guided and mentored. Amongst all this, he's also achieved five fellowships which, in itself, is a unique accomplishment. And one of the interesting places that he likes to start his conversations is about how he likes to introduce himself as the magician. But we're going to get into that in a minute. We're not going to cover that yet.

Nathan Simmonds:

But first of all, Jay, I just want to say a massive thank you for being here. Really appreciate you taking the time to have this conversation with us and develop up some of these ideas for the listeners. Thank you very much.

Nathan Simmonds:

So why do they call you, they don't call you, I don't think they call, I think you started this somewhere. Why do you call yourself the magician?

Jay Raham:

Before I got into that Nathan, I just want to say thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to come on the show and it's always great to work with like-minded professionals and I appreciate you taking the time out and making this happen, so thank you.

Situational Leadership, 'The Magician', Jay Raham

 

Jay Raham:

So, going back to your question if you like Nathan and why I like to introduce myself as the magician. Sounds weird, bizarre, strange. People have said things in the past. But there's a reason behind it; there's an explanation behind it. And yes, it is part of my personal branding. And I believe it presents me in the best possible way. So the reason why I consider myself a magician, so with all my clients, it might be individuals I have developed from the leadership program over the years, what I like to do is create moments that allow them to find that inner voice, that confidence boost and then take that away with them to their office and experience those magical moments where they are able to inspire the team members, they are able to take them on an inspiring journey.

Jay Raham:

And also connect with their clients, their customers. So that is my explanation why I like to introduce myself as the magician. So if you ask me, I do like to create those moments where everyone in the session or an individual level, they feel there's a positive energy to work with and there's something to take away.

Nathan Simmonds:

That's amazing. How much do you know about the Jungian archetypes?

Jay Raham:

Sorry, just say again, please?

Nathan Simmonds:

How much do you know about the Jung archetypes?

Jay Raham:

Not much.

Nathan Simmonds:

Good. So this is the interesting part of it, is Jung says there are four kinds of main archetypes. It's the warrior, the king, the magician and the lover. And actually the magician is the creative energy. He comes up with new solutions, new ideas. He comes with that sort of energy. So even without you realizing it, you say you like to introduce yourself as a magician because you like to create these magic moments, but it is about that creation. So you're channelling that inner-magician which, as you know, is a really nice thing. Whether you're doing it consciously or subconsciously doesn't matter. Because it's all about the people in the room experiencing that, then carrying it and going and doing something different.

Nathan Simmonds:

And I also know about you is that you pride yourself on thinking outside of the box.

Jay Raham:

Yeah.

Nathan Simmonds:

Now, again, it's that magician energy, that magician archetype that creates the new solutions of being outside of the box. That's super important. So it's really nice that you introduce yourself that way because it then sets kind of, not a precedent, you're setting an intention about what you're going to bring to that room, what you're going to bring to your clients and what those people are going to carry when they walk out of that room as well. So that's super important, I like that a lot.

Jay Raham:

Thank you for that. Something I have experienced with my interaction with my clients and learners and all the rest; it's important to set the boundaries; it's important to set the scene. And from my perspective, it's always beneficial when I can share a little bit about my success, what I have achieved with regard to my journey and I do believe there is still so much more I would like to do and achieve over the years. But it's a great way to get a reaction. I've had so many people asking, Jay, why do you call yourself the magician and I'm like, "Give me a minute and I'll explain myself."

Jay Raham:

And it's interesting, once I've had the chance to explain and go over it, often people would approach me and say we really admire your confidence level. We admire the way you present yourself. And it makes sense. So it's just a cliché. It is a part of me.

Nathan Simmonds:

Absolutely that. And I think it's when you're setting that intention as a trainer. And for us, it's all about behavioural change and we'll get into that later on. When we, as trainers and consultants, as speakers, walk into a room, we come with a reason. We come with a sense of purpose. We have our own internal dialogue. And when we walk into that room, we are going to do a certain kind of thing, in that space, based on what we're bringing. That's the reason why we were invited to that room. That's why companies pay us, that's why people invite us to speak and that do the thing, because we come with that reason.

Nathan Simmonds:

For me, my purpose, when I articulate, is I am challenging people's thinking so they can become more incredible than yesterday. That's the first words that come out of my mouth every morning and it's the reason I get up. So when I walk into a training room and I tell people, I am going to challenge your thinking so that you can become more incredible than yesterday. And people look at me like, who's this madman?

Nathan Simmonds:

And then, you can see some of the people, they're like that. Oh, not sure about this fellow, what's going on. And then I ask them, is it okay that I challenge your thinking so that you can become more incredible than yesterday. You know what, it's a loaded question. I know what the answer's going to be. If you say no, then you're in the wrong room. But by doing that, you already prepare the room. You're already creating that atmosphere, that ambience as you as the speaker and the trainer. So people can decide whether they're going to buy into it. And then you go in because you've always set your bar, your expectation, you deliver your content and you want to bring people to that level, to that bar.

Jay Raham:

Absolutely.

Nathan Simmonds:

So when you turn up as the magician, you're there to create magic. Do you know that? I love it. I think it's genius.

Jay Raham:

It hasn't let me down. It's been with me for the last seven years.

Nathan Simmonds:

Nice.

Jay Raham:

And initially when I considered it, yes, it made me feel uncomfortable and I wasn't too sure about myself. And I was on an interesting journey, partially I was developing myself and also looking at ways to enhance my brand, achieve awards and also build my credibility. But the last two years have been absolutely amazing with regard to achieving the fellowships. I believe I'm the only one in the UK who's achieved five and my target is seven, so I've got two more I'm working towards.

Jay Raham:

So it's been an interesting journey and over the years I've found greater confidence in the brand and why it's become a part of me. So, yeah, it's been an interesting journey.

Nathan Simmonds:

I think you have to discover who you are, almost. You have to go into that self-reflection. Who is it I'm bringing and what's the reason I'm bringing it....

Episode 16 - Change Management: Interview With Bestselling Author and BBC Television Personality Geoff Burch

Dynamic, exciting and fun, Geoff Burch is a business expert like no other. He is internationally known for taking a walk on the wild side of business and turning it into an engaging, entertaining and humorous presentation that will lift and delight your audience.

Geoff is the author of six best-selling business titles, is a regular presenter on BBC television and was voted Business Communicator of the Year by the Speechwriters’ Guild. Whether he is speaking on customers, sales, leadership, or change, once seen Geoff is never forgotten. Today, we discuss change management.

You Can Read the Transcript of Our Interview Below:

Nathan Simmonds:

Welcome to the MBM interview series. This is the sticky interviews. Today I've got the pleasure of interviewing Geoff Burch. He is a best selling author. He's got six books out already. He is a TV presenter for a business presenter for the BBC. He's got tailored presentations that have helped motivate and inspire change within organization, a blend of motivational message and humor. And I've had the pleasure of talking to him before. Yes, there was a lot of humor. I can't divulge a lot of what we talked about because the phrase effing and Geoffing may have been written about Geoff. So, we're going to try and keep it business correct.

Nathan Simmonds:

His demand as a speaker has been voted Business Communicator of the Year by the Speech Writers Guild. And amongst that, he makes time to make his delivery entertaining, funny, digestible so that the normal man in your business can understand what is happening and effect change for themselves from the inside out. Now, the quote that resonated with me, Geoff, when we spoke last, "A change inflicted is a change resisted." Geoff through his words makes change possible. So, thank you, Geoff, for being here. Welcome.

Geoff Burch:

Pleasure.

Nathan Simmonds:

First and foremost, why do you do what you do?

Geoff Burch:

Accident. No intention at all, absolutely not. Literally hurled into it. I feel like Brian in the Life of Brian, you know? I expect my mom to be at the window going, "He is not a guru. He's a very naughty boy," you know? Absolute total utter accident completely and utterly. And if I could understand how I do it and bottle it, I would be a lot richer than I am. But I have ... I travel. I sort of travel like a comet. I think all the ancients would sort of ... All the ancients would look at a comet and think that it imbued some sort of portent to something or other. But the comet is just a bit of frozen rock and frozen dinosaur poo sort of whistling through the universe. I feel like that, really. People interpret great portent from my things. And I'm just this piece of sort of deep frozen sort of archaeology hurtling about the place really.

Geoff Burch

 

Nathan Simmonds:

I thought you were going to say you were a piece of dinosaur poo then. I was going-

Geoff Burch:

I was going to say that. But I noticed your sort of reservations about bad language, so I'm being extremely careful. Yeah.

Nathan Simmonds:

It may happen. I think, to be honest, if we're working in business at some point, the swearing is a natural part of what we do.

Geoff Burch:

Yeah.

Nathan Simmonds:

Especially in times of crisis now. When you don't see these things happening, the first words that often come out of your mouth is, "Shit." That is just the way it is. You say that you got to where ... And I spoke about your speaking career because I'm avidly interested in a speaking career for myself in the future. And you said, again, it was accident. And I guess it's about being in the right place at the right time, saying the right words and having the right people to listen to you, which makes it happen. What inspired you then to keep going down this road, even by accident?

Geoff Burch:

Money. Lots and lots of money. I think, again, I have all sorts of weird mental problems because I was brought up by a psychiatrist, you know? It ensures that you're going to be round the twist, you know? An old Viennese psychiatrist. And I kind of feel this about these rock stars that end up sort of dying at 27 and stuff. They had something that they enjoyed doing, you know? They enjoyed doing it, whatever it was. But they enjoyed doing it. And somebody said, "I like listening too you doing what you're doing. Here's wads of money and we're going to fill a football stadium with people. But don't be ill. Don't fail to turn up. And then we're going to take you to another football stadium and another football stadium and another football stadium."

Geoff Burch:

You go, "Well, I'm tired. I don't want to." You can't stop because you've got a contract, you know? And these guys just erupt, but that's not what they were doing it for. They were doing it because they like playing their guitar or mouth organ or whatever it was they did, you know? And kind of, I've enjoyed talking bollocks all my life. And then, just one day somebody pressed money in my hand and said, "But you've got to be in Singapore in two days' time." "But I don't like flying and I don't like being away from home." "Well, I don't care. How much money do you want to be in Singapore in two days' time?"

Geoff Burch:

And kind of people go, "Yeah, we love what this guy says." And you kind of go, "Well, I would have said it anyway," you know? I say it in the shower. I say it to the rats that live in my loft. It doesn't really ... You know? And I'm fascinated by business and the weirdness of it and the stupidity of it. I mean, Einstein said, and I love Einstein, he's my hero. Einstein said that, "There are only two genuinely infinite things. One of those is the universe, and the other is the stupidity of mankind." And he said, "And I'm not sure about the universe."

Nathan Simmonds:

So, which ... Then probing into that, which parts of business do you find the most stupid?

Geoff Burch:

Well, I think the sort of ... Again, Life of Brian, again it's one of my key things is the finding of the holy sandal, you know? "I am healed by the holy ..." They have these business plans, the gurus, you know? You can be top guru one day and not the rest, Tom Peters et al. Then there's Agility, there's Six Sigma, there's the Toyota Manufacturing Method. There's the this, that, and the other. And I'm sure there's a lot of listeners out there who are screaming at me going, "But I've lived my life by the KPIs," and stuff like that. And you can always find some marvelous stupidity in it.

Geoff Burch:

Whether people want to really pay me to be told that they're stupid, I don't know. I think, again, it's the kind of gesture job thing. I think Henry the Eighth at the slightest insult would chop your head off. But his jester was allowed to do what he liked. And I think ever monarch, every ruler, every chief executive ... I mean, what was it? One of the Roman emperors used to have this guy who was paid to stand behind him to say, "You remember you're mortal," you know?

Nathan Simmonds:

Yeah, Marcus Aurelius. I was thinking that as you were saying it.

Geoff Burch:

Yeah. I think every major leader, if he values his company, needs to hear the negatives. My thing is, I'm unemployable. And that is actually a key benefit because I don't work in people's businesses. They don't want to employ me. There's absolutely no way. You don't want a person like me in your organization. So, if you have like-minded people around you, they will share the mistake.

Geoff Burch:

I mean, one of the things with aircraft systems and one of the reasons the French managed to crash an airliner was because you double up the systems. Now, because they were French, they bought all the systems from the same factory. So, after 27.5 hours, this particular part would malfunction. And because it was an identical part, the two parts malfunctioned at the same time, and the thing plunged into the sea. Whereas, all the other aircraft manufacturers buy them from two different companies.

Geoff Burch:

So, you know, you do have to employ this contradictory point of view to what you're doing. You don't have to abide by it, but you do need to kind of see what there is. And the other thing is, I often express the emotional intelligence of the frontline people, the people in the wellies and the orange jackets. So, whereas the people who live in the sort of holy place that's built on a rainbow somewhere in far Asgard, you know? I probably would understand how that just in time Agility model could be translated into the guy with the steering wheel in his hand. And I suppose that I do have a talent for being able to sell that. So, I tend to be wheeled out at company conferences.

Geoff Burch:

And I suppose, if I have any skill at all, it's to sit with the pointy heads where they talk rubbish, and then I can actually say, "No, no, no. What that actually ..." Because somebody was trying to ... Let's take Six Sigma, right? Six Sigma comes in 27 volumes of 5,000 pages each and it's a manufacturing excellence model or something, quality model. But what it is, is actually ... What it is, is you take a target and a bow and arrow and you say, "If I want to hit the bullseye, what do I aim for?" And you say, "Well, the bullseye." And say, "Well, how much away from the bullseye can we tolerate and call that the middle?" And Six Sigma says, "None of it. If you want to hit the middle, aim for the middle." And that's it. That's all 50,000 pages condensed, basically saying, if you want to get things right, you ought to try and get them right. If you have tolerance 10% either way, everybody will make it 10% either way.

Geoff Burch:

If somebody says, "Look, count the money. There should be 5,000, but I won't be upset if there's 4,900," that's what you'll get every time is 4,900 because the bloke knows he can nick 100 quid, you know?...