Marriage After God

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"Exposing how God is at work in the world reminds us of who God is and what can be done when we say yes to Him." - Marriage After God

Prayer

Dear Lord,

Thank You for using ordinary people to do such extraordinary things in this world. It is only by Your power that we are able to say Yes with courage and do all that You ask us to do. We pray we would be quick to say yes to You and trust You to help us. No matter what You invite us to do, may we never forget or neglect to do the things You have already commanded us to do in Your Word. Help us to be faithful and obedient people. We pray our marriage would be used by You to make an impact in this world and to draw people’s hearts closer to Yours. We pray our marriage would be a gift to You, blessing Your name. We pray our marriage would reflect Your amazing love. We pray for an extraordinary marriage and we ask You to use us in extraordinary ways for Your names sake. May You be glorified through us.

In Jesus’ name, amen!

Find out exactly WHY God brought you and your spouse together! https://marriageaftergod.com

Quote From Marriage After God

“Dreaming together is an exercise that is important for every marriage after God to participate in. Setting goals and casting a vision for the future strengthens the bond between a husband and wife, stirring up hope for what may come.”

”Casting a vision together for the future of your marriage is an intimate experience where hope for the future stimulates perseverance for today.”

Prayer

Dear Lord,

We pray we would be husbands and wives who dream together. We pray the dreams and the goals that we consider are ones that you put in our hearts. We desire to be used by you to fulfill your purposes. We want to build your kingdom and not our own. May we remember to submit our plans to you always. If there are things that we dream up that need to wait or need to be pushed aside, please help us to be humble. Help us to let go of any pride so that we don’t pursue what we want but instead only what you want. May we experience intimacy in marriage as we intentionally consider all that you have for us. We also pray we would have fun as we do this as a team for your glory!

In Jesus’ name, amen!

READ TRANSCRIPT

[Aaron] Hey, we're Aaron and Jennifer Smith with Marriage After God,

[Jennifer] Helping you cultivate an extraordinary marriage.

[Aaron] And today we're in part 13 of the Marriage After God series and we're gonna be talking with Isaac and Angie Tolpin about dreaming together. Welcome to the marriage After God Podcast where we believe that marriage was meant for more than just happily ever after.

[Jennifer] I'm Jennifer, also known as Unveiled Wife.

[Aaron] And I'm Aaron also known as Husband Revolution.

[Jennifer] We have been married for over a decade.

[Aron] And so far, we have four young children.

[Jennifer] We have been doing marriage ministry online for over seven years through blogging and social media.

[Aaron] With the desire to inspire couples to keep God at the center of their marriage, encouraging them to walk in faith every day.

[Jennifer] We believe that Christian marriage should be an extraordinary, one full of life.

[Aaron] Love

[Jennifer] And power

[Aaron] That can only be found by chasing after God.

[Jennifer] Together.

[Aaron] Thank you for joining us on this journey as we choose boldly after God's will for our life together.

[Jennifer] This is Marriage After God.

[Jennifer] So, we just wanted to take a moment and just ask you guys to leave us a review. That's just one way that other people will be able to find the Marriage After God podcast and spread the good news. So, if you could just take a moment and leave us a review, you could leave a star rating review or comment review and the comments are great too because they always encourage us. So thank you guys, for those of you who have already done that.

[Aaron] And the reason we're doing this series is to promote our new book, Marriage After God. And if you go pick up a copy today that would just make us feel so blessed, is the reason we're doing all these interviews, all these episodes. And it's also how you can support us. And I hope that this book blesses you guys and we wrote it for you.

[Jennifer] So today we have our good friends Angie and Isaac Tolpin from the Courageous Parenting podcast. Thank you guys for joining us.

[Isaac] So great to be here.

[Angie] Yeah, we're really excited to support you guys.

[Isaac] And we love the book.

[Aaron] Wow.

[Isaac] Yeah.

[Angie] It's awesome.

[Aaron] Thank you.

[Jennifer] Well, we just wanted to take a minute right here and just have you introduce yourself to everyone listening. So maybe share how long you been married, how many kids you have, and what you guys do.

[Isaac] I'll start off with 19 years. It's been an incredible journey. How many kids Angie?

[Angie] We have eight.

[Isaac] So and we're in ministry courageousparenting.com.

[Angie] And courageousmom.com.

[Aaron] Awesome, so you guys have been doing ministry for a long time but now you guys are more specifically doing it together online with this podcast with your website. How did we meet? How did you guys meet because we do fellowship with you guys. A lot of the people we've been interviewing, we actually go to church with. So people like why do they know all these people, well? They go to our church but we met before gone just together

[Angie] Yes we did. I think it was when, it was just years ago when Jen and I met because of Redeeming Childbirth. And she was pregnant with Olive at the time.

[Aaron] And Redeeming Childbirth is a book you wrote about childbirth and redeeming it with a biblical mindset.

[Angie] It's kind of a discipleship tool for women because I cover topics that normal pregnancy books don't cover like pain, fear, marriage from a biblical perspective--

[Isaac] Yeah the spiritual side of it.

[Angie] Yeah, how to walk through pregnancy, childbirth, postpartum and young motherhood.

[Jennifer] Yeah, and we had just moved to Bend you guys had just moved to Bend and so we met up for coffee and that that was the beginning.

[Isaac] It's been a great journey.

[Angie] It really has.

[Aaron] Yeah, it is, we know how small the world is and how close you can become with someone that you didn't know before, and now you're like, I knew I feel like I've known you forever.

[Angie] Now, we are like family.

[Jennifer] Okay, so after we share this next story, everyone's gonna wanna be you guys as friends. This is how awesome you are. So we just celebrated an anniversary, our 12th anniversary and we didn't have plans and we're gonna go to dinner and Aaron's like, well, let's invite another couple and you guys were right there. We wanted to spend time with you. And so we invited you to go to dinner and--

[Aaron] To our anniversary dinner.

[Jennifer] Yeah and it was gonna be awesome but we didn't know you guys on the way over had prepared questions for us to think about in this year.

[Aaron] You use to like what's that game the marriage show where you, the Newlyweds Game? You guys, it's kind of that, you guys asked us all these awesome questions. And it made our date night, it was not just a double date where we just chatted, it was like so much fun.

[Angie] It was.

[Isaac] That means way we answered those questions,

[Jennifer] So is that like normal for you guys or a special?

[Isaac] That was the first time plus, you know what, the---

[Angie] So, it was just a special.

[Isaac] You're special and anniversaries are so special.

[Jennifer] That's true and what a great way to celebrate. And we just love that, it's gonna be a standout one for me, I know that. But I had to share that because I think it was super thoughtful. And for those listening, if you're gonna double date on someone else's anniversary, you should do that. It's time we say, we've got a bunch of questions for you.

[Jennifer] Okay, so this leads me into the icebreaker question for today. And it came from one of your guys as questions that you asked us.

[Aaron] I think it was the first one you asked us.

[Jennifer] So here's the question and it's for you guys to answer. If your spouse was a superhero, who would they be? So you're answering this about each other.

[Isaac] Why do you kick it off honey?

[Angie] I was thinking about this and I think I choose the whole popular Captain America because when I met when Isaac--

[Aaron] His fist pumping right now.

You know, that's right. When Issac and I, 20 years ago, when I met him, he was a new believer and had become a new creation like how Steve Rogers turns into the new creation and then he's just this man of vision that wants to do what's right. And he's a leader that people follow. So there's just a lot of qualities, and he doesn't hide behind a mask. So that, there's the boom.

[Jennifer] I love that.

Real deal.

Cool.

Transparency.

Yeah.

[Isaac] Well, that's cool, I think you're Wonder Woman. Because you are pure.

Interesting

Yes. And your middle name is Crystal, which means what, honey?

[Angie] It means brilliantly clear. Or pure.

[Isaac] Angie, you're really good at getting the truth out of people.

That's true.

Right, she's right.

[Jennifer] She is drastic, it's true

[Isaac] Exactly, that's all truth, she cares about justice.

[Angie] That's true.

[Aaron] And she cares about truth. And you have an unbelievable ability to do many things at once which everybody says you're not supposed to be able to do.

[Angie] You truly are a super mom.

[Isaac] A super mom, that's right.

[Aaron] Super mom, it's new superhero I don't know if that show would go very far today. Okay, so Jennifer.

[Jennifer] Sorry guys.

[Aaron] So Jennifer, what would your superhero be for me?

[Jennifer] Okay, so just so everyone knows when we were sitting there that night, the whole time, I was thinking about my answer for you. I was sitting there thinking, please don't say I'm Hulk. Please don't say I'm Hulk. Because out of all the superheroes I was just thinking that's the one that's not like attractive, and he's big and he's angry and I don't wanna be Hulk. And what comes flying out of Aaron's mouth, I think Jen would be Hulk.

[Aaron] I did say that.

[Jennifer] So, anyways--

[Aaron] But for good reasons, not because you're big and green, and angry. Because you have strength that comes out of you when you need it. And you're smart, and you're intelligent. Now, those were the qualities I was trying to get out of Bruce Banner, okay?

[Jennifer] Thank you And then, what did I say for you? Oh, I said, Dr. Strange because you have--

[Aaron] A strange and--

[Jennifer] Yeah, you have gifted discernment and you you know things like--

[Aaron] Yeah, weird things, yeah, weird.

[Jennifer] Yeah, that's true.

[Aaron] There we go, okay,

[Jennifer] Fun little question to ask. You guys can ask each other those listening. It's just fun, I like it, I like ice breakers.

[Aaron] So why don't we so as we get into the all the questions we're gonna ask the Tolpins, our good friends. Why don't you read the quote from chapter 13 of the Marriage After God and then we'll get into that.

[Jennifer] Okay, it says, dreaming together is an exercise that is important for every marriage after God to participate in, setting goal and casting a vision for the future strengthens the bond between a husband and wife stirring up hope for what may come.

[Aaron] Awesome, how does that, does that sound right? Because you guys are dreamers. You guys are excellent at planning. It's when we thought about this chapter, we're like, oh, we have to have the Tolpins

[Jennifer] They are like professional goal setters.

[Aaron] The ones we interview about this because you are planners and goal setters and dreamers. I don't think you know how to have small dreams. You only know like large, big, like--

[Angie] I'd say Isaac definitely is a bigger dreamer than I am and so a lot of times I find myself running as fast as possible to keep up.

[Isaac] And sometimes that's good and sometimes it's not.

That's right.

Yeah.

[Angie] So we've learned over the years to be able to tell where each other are at and be there to support each other, it's been--

[Isaac] But I think it's vital as a marriage to have vision, we are called to have vision and to look ahead, otherwise, we just get sucked into the circumstances of the day and stuck in the mundane. And it's important to have vision.

[Angie] And there isn't a lot of growth when you're just sitting there without vision either. So it's one of the things that I think has made us really enjoy marriage and life is just always looking forward to how we can be growing ad what's next, and looking forward. Isaac always makes this joke when his birthday comes around that he doesn't like looking back. He likes getting older. He doesn't care that he getting older too.

Oh, it's the best thing.

I like getting older too

Oh, Yeah

He just loves it.

[Aaron] People really don't wanna stay young. I wanna, I can't wait to be gray haired.

[Isaac] Yeah, wisdom, you get to see your kids get older, more experiences, you've learned more.

[Angie] But one of the things that he said about that that's always stuck with me and challenges me because I'm not naturally like that is that if you're focused so much on the past, then you're not gonna be growing. You're always wanting what you had. And so it's just a challenge to look forward and it's a good challenge.

[Jennifer] That's awesome, so, have you guys always been dreamers and goal setters in your marriage like from the very beginning? Or is it something that kind of developed over time?

[Isaac] I would say that it was from early on actually. And in business, I've always played a proactive role in helping people have goals and vision, and so forth is really important. And I think, you know, husbands need to apply that to their marriages into their family. And I think it's super important. So we have done it early on. Of course, it's evolved over time.

[Angie] Yeah, for sure. And now we involve our kids in it too, which we'll talked about later but--

[Aaron] Yeah, we love that because you're teaching them how to be in the moment, and do what needs to be done but also look ahead and prepare. So you've always been dreamers, you've always been planners but have you said it's evolved. What are some of the ways that it's changed over time, the way you used to plan, dream?

[Angie] Well, you know what, Isaac actually, I haven't said this him out loud but I think he's actually the one who really taught me how to set goals. Because I worked for him when we met, that's how we met. And I was an independent contractor and had to set sales goals and different things like that. And he would coach the team through how to do that. And we just kind of took that into our personal life because it was so productive. And we saw good results from it. So we started applying it to life and other areas.

[Isaac] There's a principle called the napkin talk in leadership, and I just took that same principle to our date nights. Not every single one, sometimes we just hanging out. We do do that.

[Angie] I don't see, but we really absolutely enjoy it.

[Isaac] But we really love, so we almost have to force ourselves just to go hang out sometimes, but we--

[Angie] We actually had friends who were like, don't you guys just go and like sit?

[Isaac] Yeah, we do, we like that, but the napkin talk, I mean which means you pull out a napkin, you have a pen, you write down some goals, and you write down some initiatives, and there's an incredible power when you actually put thoughts to paper. I don't know what happens but it activates action in your lives and in your marriage. And I think that's really important.

[Jennifer] I feel like there's a really good practical tip for people listening if this is something that they really haven't done in their marriage, or maybe they've done it in the past, but haven't done it recently, getting out that napkin, getting out that piece of paper, even after listening to this episode and just go for it. It's the kind of place to start brain dump and just get it out of your mind, out of your heart, and onto the paper.

[Isaac] And I think you just think of one or two really good questions, it can be that simple.

[Aaron] So, I just wanna, I love those tips, the napkin, what was it called, napkin talk? Where you just write down on a napkin and that's awesome. We do something similar. We don't ever do a napkin but we bring a pad or we bring a pad or we do it on our phone, or send ourselves an email.

[Jennifer] Actually I have used napkins before.

[Aaron] Yeah, I think you have, that's it or worse we get some receipt paper please.

[Isaac] Yeah, exactly, whatever.

[Isaac] Yeah, whatever you can. But I just wanna real quick highlight why we've been talking about dreaming. And we're talking about this idea of planning together because in this part of the book, we're encouraging marriages to take all of the things we've talked about up to this point, and actually start getting it out of their hearts, and minds and onto paper. Because once we do that, once we have it out on paper. You said, the power of goal setting, there's every single productivity book or success book has some form of write it down, put a checklist, have a to do list. And there's a reason for that is because once it's written down, it's a real thing. It becomes a, oh, that's actually visible and now I'm not the only one who is thinking about it.

[Isaac] So true.

[Aaron] Other people can see it, my kids can see, my wife can see it and now I can pray about it. And so I just, I just wanna highlight, that's why we're having this conversation is not just to like, let's have big dreams and shoot for the moon. And, but there's a there's a mission involved in what we're doing. So, that we're proactively use that word proactive, we're proactively chasing after God's will for our life and sometimes and oftentimes it takes dumping all of the things that are in our hearts and minds as a couple onto paper into notes and be like, okay, what does this look like in our life? How are we gonna get to from A to B? What is B, so I just wanted to bring that up and then, so that we all know, everyone that's listening is like, oh, like, that's why we dream, like that's why we plan.

[Isaac] I think we're wired for progress too. And so when you're able to look at the end of the year, how you've made progress together, and the things you've accomplished together, it's so rewarding.

[Angie] And do you have dreams when you first get married. You dream about your life together. And you may think about specific goals, even then, from when we were just engaged to newlyweds. And it's exciting to keep that going. I think it helps you tonight and become stagnant, like you're saying or becoming a marriage is just surviving but instead, you're thriving. And I think that the first few years that we were married too, the napkin talks, a lot of times were Isaac asking specifically how I was doing in my relationship with God, how I was doing in my relationships with my kids, and that this would become an opportunity for us to communicate about what was going on in their hearts and what I was seeing during the day so that he would know how he could back me up when he was at home or what their needs were, so that we could be a better team when he was off work and on the weekends because he worked during the day,

[Isaac] It's so crucial because as husbands, if we want our wives' support, then we better be proactively supporting our wives. What things in our career do we want support with? Well, you're not gonna get it unless you've been proactively all along the way, supporting your wife and the things that really matter.

[Angie] And I remember there was a time too, someone asked us years ago because Isaac would shoot for huge goals business wise, and he would hit them. And one of the wives of another manager came up to me and just said, wow, you must have to work so hard at home. Is he working all the time? And I said, well, he does work hard, butt we work together and it's a team, we're a team.

[Aaron] It's a good little insight.

[Angie] Yeah and in, she just kind of looked at me like, oh, and and I remember like we would go out and if Isaac had a goal for work, like if I was gonna shoot for a different amount of sales, let's say you're in sales, he'd always run that by me first at one of our visionary date nights. And he would say, hey, this is what it might end up costing us like, this much extra time, are you in? Are we, do we wanna do it? So it wasn't just him doing it?

[Isaac] And then you being pulled along.

[Angie] Right and so even though he was running a business and I was a stay at home mom, I felt so cherished and involved in his business because he was involving me in the dreaming process, and just sharing with me even those goals. And then years went by of us doing that. And one night, he just out of nowhere said Do you have dreams that we're not pursuing together? And then that's where Redeeming Childbirth came in and like, oh, in him encouraging me to have a blog. And so it's important that you both are drawing that out of each other.

[Aaron] Well, and I think I saw in a second one ask you about the visionary date night thing. We'll get into that but you said that he would invite you in, involve you. I feel like you probably felt that way but it's even more than that. It sounds like you were a linchpin in the process where it not just being involved in like, hey, what do you think about this idea. It's more of a this goal won't work unless we're on the same page.

[Isaac] It's crucial, it's crucial, because if the plan doesn't go well, and you didn't from the beginning decide to do it together, guess who your detractors going to be later? The wife, you can't accomplish big things by yourself. And if you set out to do things then they don't go well, it could harm the marriage, if you didn't set out to do it together.

[Aaron] Well, and we talked about this a lot in the book is like, it starts without unity anyway. Like, if you're only doing it for if you're chasing after something and she's chasing after something, what are you doing? You're pulling against each other, and you never gonna get anywhere.

[Angie] You won't be effective.

[Isaac] No, and so you coming to your wife and it's not a permission based thing, it's purely a, we're one. This will only work if we're on the same page so that you show me where it's not gonna work, and let's figure out how to make it work. And not just in business but like, I love that you guys talked about children. And it actually in this chapter, we talk about the different categories that we could be submitting to the Lord and dreaming in. So when it comes to like children and raising our children and discipleship like, hey, what are some of the visions that we have?

And it could be as simple--

For our kids.

[Angie] as what character qualities do we see already being cultivated in this child? What is God drawing out of them? And how can we encourage that more? What are some of the flaws that maybe we need to work on? And so there's also those kinds of visions and goals with each child to those were always at the forefront of our family, visionary, and time for sure.

[Isaac] Well, we would even write down each child's name and go, what does each child need?

[Angie] And there were times to where we would evaluate like do we need to have special one on one time with each child like on a regular basis, like for a period of time to deal with a specific topic? So there are so many ways you could go about this.

[Jennifer] That's so cool, and when I think about this chapter of the book and the reason why we wanted to encourage couples to do this very thing of dreaming together and talking about these kinds of things is because it is a really intimate experience because you have to communicate, you have to share your hearts with one another. And that's what I'm hearing.

[Aaron] You are really transparent.

Jennifer] You have to be transparent, you have to have a insights, you have to know your children, you have to know each other. And I just see how unity is built. Trust is built, love is cultivated when a husband and wife intentionally pursue moments like this together.

[Aaron] Absolutely, so there's a quote in the book, it says this. Casting a vision together for the future of your marriage is an intimate experience where hope for the future stimulates perseverance for today. How has this been true in your guys' life?

[Angie] Oh, I feel like that quote totally suits for the season that we just been in.

[Isaac] We've gone through ups and some really tough times too, ups and downs, for sure. And it has been so crucial to have vision and a godly perspective and putting God at the center of our marriage as we go through the challenging times.

[Angie] And really that our goals are centered on Him too. I think that that's the thing that keeps you going. He's the hope and when you know that what you're pursuing is for Him and it's not for gain in anything else then it gives you the hope to keep going every day. And you don't focus so much on the circumstances that you might be in.

[Isaac] And we're called to not be of this world, be in the world but not of the world. And that goes for marriage. And so our marriage is a witness to the world. And what a great testimony during the hard times when we just grow closer together.

[Jennifer] Amen, love that.

[Aaron] Yeah, so you were just mentioning about like, they're like for God and human being in the center and Christ being our hope. And that's everything we want people to recognize but when we say dreaming, often we think like, we have lots of dreams. You said when you were married, you had lots of dreams. There's lots of people thinking, I want a big house, or I want to live in this location, or like we have this many dreams. And I'm not saying any of them are bad. But I wanna know, how do we set biblical boundaries? On our dream in planning, because we definitely could like dream of anything, doesn't mean anything should be done?

[Angie] I think that that's one of the benefits of having marriage too is that you can hold each other accountable because there will be times you'll both need it, right?

[Jennifer] So good.

[Angie] And I think that also when it comes to boundaries, I have specific boundaries that I have set for how I react when he shares his dreams because he's a big dreamer.

[Aaron] When is really big enough?

[Angie] Yeah, I kind of hold my breath for a minute.

Three deep breaths.

because I'm like, okay, that's really big.

[Isaac] Because she thinks we're for sure doing it because I speak with authority, even though I am just sharing ideas that haven't even been fleshed out yet.

[Angie] Yes, and so we've had to learn that about each other. And so he always is really, he's a gentle leader with me in that that he'll remind me ahead of time and say, so I don't wanna do this right now but I was thinking, X, Y, Z.

[Isaac] That's only after learning for a few years, in our first two years of marriage.

[Aaron] Well then ever went to listening husbands. This is a great tip. Hey, this isn't happening right now or even soon but I'm thinking about doing X, Y, Z. That's a great way to prep your wife for a big conversation.

[Angie] It totally is. And then it kind of gives me some time to like let it settle, think about it. And then I don't overreact because we had done a lot of really big things together in business and in planning a vineyard. And we had, yeah, we had six of them in those 10 years. So we really had done a lot. And so, his track record led me to believe that every time you had a dream it had to happen.

[Aaron] Because it's been that way.

[Isaac] Yeah, and if you want your wife's support then you've got a pre-frame ahead of time like that because otherwise, when I was shared dream without pre-framing it, she would instantly sometimes look for the challenge where I'm too optimistic, she's more realistic. And that's why God put us together, because the differences are such a blessing when you embrace those differences and you respect each other.

[Aaron] It's almost like God had a plan for your marriage.

[Angie] Amazing, right?

[Jennifer] And something that I'm hearing as you guys talk or is that this practice of dreaming together is also practicing communication and learning each other. And so another tip for those listening is learn each other, figure out how each other's going to receive things and adapt your relationship so that you guys can work together as a team and not always end up in arguments or disappointments.

[Angie] One tip in that direction is that timing is everything which is one of the reasons why I think our date nights were so successful. It wasn't in the heat of the household.

[Isaac] Chaos.

[Angie] You know what I'm saying and so--

[Isaac] Handling are you making dinner for our children and me and I thought about this idea.

[Angie] Exactly, and I thought you would.

[Isaac] So husbands, it's super important to think about the timing of when to bring certain things up, challenges, good things, dreams. And sometimes you're gonna save a list for your date nights, it's super important.

[Jennifer] Angie, could you just share to the wives timing for when you're sharing things with your husband, maybe what does it look like on a wife's end?

[Angie] On a wife's end regarding the dreams since--

[Jennifer] Timing.

[Angie] So right away, when they come home from work if they're someone who's working away from home not a good time to talk to them. Give them some time to so and and I think that night times are actually good after the kids have gone to bed. That's also a good time to talk about it, I wouldn't suggest that for the wives though as much because we just kind of are starting to relax and then it's brought up it can create some anxiety for some women. But the guys generally can handle that but you would have to judge your spouse.

[Jennifer] Yeah, for sure.

[Angie] But I think that they appreciate us being considerate to them in the same regard that we appreciate being considered.

[Aaron] So I have this thought about, we talk about boundaries because like we can dream again of anything but what is God one, and building a, this is for me and for you guys, and everyone that's listening. Beginning to build a track record where we as individuals, as a husband and a wife, and as a marriage, submit everything to the Lord. Instead of like, hey, I have this idea. Let's sell the house and let's move over across country and start a this organization. And everyone's like, whoa, whoa, what? What are you talking about? But having a track record of like, hey, here's an idea. Let's start praying about this today and see what happens. And then learning how to follow through with things or learning how to say no to things after it's been evaluated, prayed through and sought out with counsel, so that when a husband brings up an idea, there's not this fear of like, well, is this going to end up like what happened last time where we're going to change that do something and then fall on our face, and then have to start over again, and then chase after something that follows. Does that make sense?

[Isaac] It makes perfect sense. And just because something is good fruit doesn't mean it's fruit we're supposed to pick. So it's really important to have God at the center and be praying about it. It's like in the vineyard, if you have a whole bunch of fruit on a plant, you can't leave all that fruit there. Otherwise, it's gonna make bad wine. But if you cut half of it off, all the energy goes into the right fruit that we're supposed to pick, and it makes great wine. And that's the same thing for a marriage.

[Jennifer] I love that. So when dreaming together, there's going to be times where there's gonna be awesome things that come that come up and get on the list that you probably can't pursue, or maybe the timings not there, and you guys have to navigate that together.

[Angie] And I think sometimes too, depending on if you're a natural dreamer and you like to dream about a lot of things, sometimes it's not God's will for your life. And that's where you have to be willing to dream but be willing for God to say no. Or to say, no, not now. Because sometimes that's His answer too. And so and that's part of why I think that he's given us protection and having a spouse because we can kind of ground one another in the times when we need to. But we can also be one another's biggest cheerleader in those times when we know God's pushing us forward.

[Isaac] And that's crucial 'cause husbands if you get off track, and you're not listening to God and you're in the flesh, and you just go and do something, it could be catastrophic for your family. And I have an experience where we went all in on a business venture, and it failed. And we lost everything financially for a period of time. And that was my responsibility. Now, my wife faithfully supported me, followed me through the challenges, and through the good times but that was directly a cost of me being confused and not paying attention to what God wanted.

[Aaron] Oh, it's awesome that you can you can see that. And for those that are listening can learn from what you guys walked through. So that gift that God gave you, that that resource that he's given you that story is now a testimony that can warn other believers.

[Angie] Yeah, we have lots of stories like that was a good story

[Isaac] Oh, we do.

Winning and losing.

[Angie] That's right.

[Jennifer] Speaking of winning, what are kingdom benefits of dreaming together and setting goals?

[Isaac] Well, I think the first Kingdom benefit is your kids are watching everything you're doing. And if you're trusting God, and surrendering everything to God and working as a team together, you're modeling for them for their future marriages because what we're raising future adults, right?

[Angie] That's right, yeah. And we also want them to see us pursuing God's dreams and His visions and being workers in His fields also. And so, right now with Courageous Parenting, this is a new thing that we're working together in ministry, I've been doing it for many years. And Isaac, of course, was always a missionary wherever he was, but now we're full in with Courageous Parenting. And it's a different feel around the house, everybody is involved, everybody helps out in some way from Austin helping to edit podcasts to Megan helping with the baby, and it's just, and they're behind it. That's the cool thing is that they see the vision because they wanna see other parents get impacted and they are constantly encouraging us too so.

[Isaac] And I think if God is for something, it's gonna have some impact on the kingdom of God and so that's the fruit too.

[Aaron] And so it's constantly saying, Okay, Lord, what do you want? Here's what we have and here's ideas that we have. How does this work into your plan?

[Angie] It's really about stewardship. Actually, all of the goal setting and everything is all about stewarding.

I love that.

Our hearts, our lives, our children,

Our resources.

[Angie] All our resources. And so I remember when we had the vineyard before we planted and cultivated the vineyard in our other property, we would look out at this field and go, what should we plant there? And we would pray about it, we'd dream about it. And we thought, all different kinds of ideas. And we did have a vision for hosting weddings there one day and different things like that. But God moved us on to a different vision which I'm glad that we're here. It was definitely God's will for us to move, but yeah.

[Aaron] So, I think of this, I can't remember the how the quote exactly goes but the answer is no to 100% of the questions you never asked, right.

[Isaac] Yeah.

[Aaron] Because like if you don't ask her you can't get a yes or no. So it's just a no. And I feel like that's how we should see this idea of dreaming as a couple as marriages for the kingdom of God and saying, okay, Lord, we have this amount of resources, we have these relationships, we have these talents and gifts that you've given us. Man, we could do this, we combine this, and just throw it all out, and then start praying over it which is what how we we direct the readers and what to do when they dream. And then start making actions. So what's a practical way that you guys dream and then plan, like okay, here's a dream and we've actually feel like this is where God's leading us

[Angie] Always involves a whiteboard.

[Aaron] Turn aways because they are--

[Isaac] Whiteboard or journal, I think you start on a whiteboard, afterwards ends up on a whiteboard. But yeah, I think it's so important to get things on paper, pray over it, of course, and then really vet it out and have some action steps towards it and understand each other's roles. There was some dreams where Angie's role was to praise and be supportive and take care of the family while I was doing something. There's other dreams we've done where we're both very, very active and immersed together in it.

[Angie] And then there were times where Isaac would take care of the kids so that I could write and he was more active with the kids in the vineyard and taking that on, and then I would pull back away from that once that project was done. And I was all in and he would be able to slip away more towards work. And so it's kind of a dance.

[Isaac] But it's so important.

[Aaron] I love that idea of a dance.

[Isaac] Dance, so important to have good communication, though, because things are constantly moving.

[Aaron] I think a part of that good communication is having end zones. Small, like if it was just an indefinite like, hey, you're gonna watch the kids and I'm gonna write, and who knows when, that wouldn't be a healthy season.

[Angie] No, you do have to have boundaries.

[Aaron] So, you set boundaries and then it wouldn't be how easy is it of, if Isaac said, hey, I'm gonna be working 12 hour days for the next, who knows how long and let's see what happens. That wouldn't be a healthy.

[Isaac] Here's a super important point to that which is husbands when you set a deadline for how long the sacrifice is gonna be, you better deliver. Because if you go past that deadline, your wife is gonna lose trust for you as you dream together--

[Aaron] Track record.

[Isaac] There's a cost.

[Aaron] You wanna have good track records within this process.

[Jennifer] Any want your word to be as good as gold.

[Angie] Yeah, that's awesome and what I'm thinking when you guys are sharing all this is details. So when you're writing this down when you're making an action plan or strategy put some details and dates and times, and very specific things that will help guide these boundaries.

[Aaron] That's good baby.

[Isaac] That's was really good.

[Aaron] So, as we come to a close, I want to ask you, it's so easy to just say, We're gonna be big dreamers and big planners, and we're gonna get all these practical steps and... What is the foundational perspective biblically that we should have in all of this because the Bible talks about planning.

[Angie] And He talks a lot about our marriage, I think it comes down to what our marriages really for, God.

[Isaac] To glorify God.

[Angie] It's not about us. And so when you realize that your marriage isn't about you, and that it's meant to be a light to the world, and that you are bearing God's image to them, your perspective changes and that's for all of us. It doesn't matter what you're doing for work or if you're in ministry, we are all part of the body of Christ. And we all--

We're all in ministry, this is our, yeah.

Exactly. Everyone is a missionary wherever they are. They're all lights and ambassadors.

[Isaac] Yeah, it's to fulfill the greatest, the Great Commission, and to glorify God in everything we do, and we've always believed that the things we're gonna do, it's gotta have some kind of positive impact on people. And that doesn't need because every--

[Aaron] When you say positive, do you mean like in a faith way and in a biblical way?

[Isaac] In a biblical, faith focused way. And I'm not saying everybody, every goal has to be like that. But I've had goals that weren't, like investing in resources, and I lost deeply. And I did not get my wife's approval.

[Aaron] That's for another podcast.

[Isaac] It's for another but I just want to warn you that God is in control, and we should fear Him, and not the world. And really obey him by our actions.

[Angie] I think too, we mentioned stewardship, and one of the verses that comes to mind is about our treasures and building treasures in heaven. And I think that as we're setting goals as a couple, and we're remembering these foundational truths about marriage that we keep in the back of our minds that we're building for Him, and we're building for the kingdom of God in heaven because we're partnering with Him and the Great Commission and--

[Isaac] So good.

[Angie] And that we're gonna experience pushback because whenever you do something that God's calling you to do, you're gonna experience some pushback. We have enemies, we have our own flesh And God cares about our sanctity through the process of the journey of life as well and so hard dreams are good because they bring out those things that need to be sanctified in you.

[Isaac] Yeah, I mean, often I have said if you're not salty, you might not even realize there's a battle. But if you are salty, you're fully aware because you feel it. And there is a spiritual battle at hand. And as you press in and set goals together and try, and do things for God's glory, there is an enemy that hates that. The good news is God is way more powerful. but you need to be aware, and you need to pray.

[Aaron] So, do you guys, in all of these conversations we have there just can be an inkling of, well, that's good for you. And I understand that God's got this call because we use this idea of call. Is there anyone in the body of Christ that's exempt from the things you're talking about?

[Isaac] Not at all, you could be doing any position, it be in any kind of circumstances, any kind of financial situation. And it's the same truth for every married couple.

[Angie] And the reason why is because God wants people, He wants their hearts, He wants to be reconciled to everyone. And so He may place you in a place that's really hard. But I think that God would ask of you to think big, think and view them the way He views them, and would He want you to have a goal or a dream that's gonna impact that other co-worker that's in the cubicle next to you.

[Isaac] I would also say there's nothing worse than when you go out to dinner and you see couples not talking to each other, or looking at their phones, ignoring each other. And that potentially, is because they're not making progress together and doing things for God as a team.

[Aaron] And I feel like, Jen, you might be able to speak into this a little bit, that setting, you said heavenly treasure like treasures in heaven, treasures above. The Bible tells us to look above to think on things above and not on things that on earth, and setting goals and pursuing heavenly things and always looking up. When I think of those couples that are sitting and not looking each other, it's because they are only looking in one direction, which is down, because we're not up, we are of the Earth currently. And I feel like that pursuing as a marriage, do you feel like as we consistently look up, it keeps our focuses off of us?

[Angie] Yeah, yeah, totally.

[Aaron] And that's what we wanna encourage everyone listening is this isn't just because we want plan that million dollar orphanage in another country that might be absolutely someone's calling in, and we gotta ask for them. But it's just the fact that we have we a heavenly calling. All of us as believers, we were part of the body of Christ. And that body is doing something and it's it's led by the by the head Jesus.

[Jennifer] We all have gifts and to know those gifts in one another and call them out and say, hey, have you ever thought of like, I would have never even started a blog if it wasn't for Isaac starting it for me and saying here, you should write. I mean that's really your gift.

[Isaac] You use your gift, here you go.

[Angie] He kind of did that. I mean, this was way back before we had cellphones. He was crazy about the internet just came out sponsor.

[Aaron] Oh man.

[Isaac] Man, I think what happened is I said, you should start a blog, and you're like, oh, no. Some of you should start a blog, oh, no. Okay, I'm starting a blog, and I started a blog.

[Angie] You edited it.

[Isaac] And I started a blog, and I'm writing, I'm writing and the only reason I started a blog was so that she was started blog. And that's how she started hers.

[Jennifer] Did he buy a book?

That is actually, no.

[Jennifer] That's awesome, before we wrap up, I really want our listeners to benefit from your guys' wisdom on parenting. And so I just wanna ask the question, how have you guys incorporated dreaming together as a family with your children?

[Isaac] I think it's so important to include your kids in the process.

It's fun.

It is really fun. And one of the interesting things is that everybody has New Year plans and so forth. We just started start those more toward November going into the new year. And what we do is we run a session with the kids and we go, how did this year go? We have them.

[Aaron] Is there a whiteboard involved?

There's a whiteboard.

Yes.

[Isaac] And we have them rate the different areas of life, spiritual.

[Angie] How did they do in that category?

[Isaac] Yeah and we talked about it. And then then we do another session where they set intentions for the new year. And we just still got the--

[Aaron] I like intensions, it's better than resolutions.

[Isaac] Yeah, intentions is good.

[Angie] It good intentions and Isaac always takes a picture after they have shared what they are, and takes a picture so that he can put it up on the screen the next year. And he also kind of texts us randomly throughout the year goes, how are you doing on your goals?

[Jennifer] Wow,

[Angie] It's really for--

[Jennifer] Seriously, that's awesome.

[Angie] Yeah, our oldest daughter, Kelsey, is at college and she actually just texted me a picture of her goals that are on her wall next to her bed. That was a huge win. So even like, all the kids really enjoy it, even our three year olds had goals this year to stay potty trained and get candy.

[Isaac] What's awesome for that is--

[Jennifer] I would like to get candy bars.

[Isaac] When they rate different areas of their life. It's so neat to see all the kids in the family rallying for them, no, you're more like an A, you are not a C.

You're not--

[Isaac] It's awesome.

[Angie] It was really encouraging because they would all give feedback and and say, oh, well, have you thought about this goal? And they would like add on to it and so it was really fun.

[Isaac] Self evaluation is an incredible gift.

[Jennifer] And it sounds like it doesn't matter what age children?

[Angie] No, I mean, Eli was with us and he's four months old

That's awesome.

He was adamant. Sometimes in our age.

[Angie] Self training.

[Aaron] Taking solid foods, stay cute.

[Jennifer] Awesome, thank you guys so much for your insight there. I know that it just is blessing everyone, everyone's probably gonna wanna redo all their--

Resolutions.

--new goals for 2019. Okay, so the last question we have for you is, in your own words, what is a marriage after God?

[Angie] Well, I think that we kind of talked a little bit about it before, just that our marriage would reveal the image of God to everyone, to our children to the world around us. And that we'd be striving to one another. One of the images that comes to my mind is in life trials because we have definitely experienced those in 19 years of marriage. When you're both chasing after God or running after him in that hard time I think you're gonna meet there and you're gonna be stronger versus if you're--

[Isaac] Stronger together.

[Angie] Versus like if a husband loses a job or a wife is ill, or you could name whatever trial you're walking through, if one person starts working harder to fix the problem versus running to God first, there's a difference in how your marriage is revealed to your kids and the strength of marriage.

[Isaac] And then when we say our wedding vows, almost everybody has in their wedding vows or some part of the marriage ceremony is to become one flesh. And do you really believe that? Well, if you do, then you're going to treat your bride or your husband like they are yourself. Because we really do become one. And when you become one, like Angie said, you become way more powerful for the impact for the kingdom of God. And we've always held that as the most important vision.

[Jennifer] Well that was incredible. I could just listen to you guys all night, and that's awesome.

[Isaac] Well, if people want to, they can go find them at courageousparenting.com, or through their podcast, Courageous Parenting but you can get anywhere podcasts are. And they should definitely go check out their podcast because we don't talk nearly enough about parenting. And that's all they talk about, like this. They talked about the painting like--

[Jennifer] This is we glean all of our needed parenting.

[Aaron] You guys have blessed us over the years by your gift of knowledge and parenting, your wisdom in parenting. And so we've been totally blessed by that. So not just the planning stuff that we've seen in your life, but all aspects of your life we've been blessed by, so thank you for honoring us and blessing us by coming on our show.

[Isaac] We've been so blessed by your friendship and love what's happening with the ministry here.

[Aaron] Yeah, thank you.

[Jennifer] I also wanna mention you guys are really active on social media. So where can people find you if they wanna follow you daily?

[Isaac] Courageous Parenting and--

[Angie] Courageous Mom.

[Isaac] And Resolute Man.

[Angie] Yeah, so on Instagram, that's where we're the most active for sure, I'm courageous.mom and he's resolute.man. And then on Facebook.

[Aaron] Awesome, so, at the end of every episode, we end in prayer. So if you guys wanna join me in prayer?

[Isaac] Yeah.

[Aaron] Dear Lord, we pray would be husbands and wives who dream together. We pray the dreams and the goals that we consider are ones that you put in our hearts. We desire to be used by you to fulfill your purposes. We wanna build your kingdom and not our own. And we remember to submit our plans to you always. There are things that we dream up that need to wait or need to be pushed aside, please help us to be humble. Help us to let go of any pride so that we don't pursue what of we want but instead only what you want. May we experience intimacy in marriage as we intentionally consider all that you have for us. We also pray we would have fun as we do this as a team for your glory. In Jesus name.

[All] Amen.

[Aaron] So, we just wanna thank everyone for listening. This has been part 13 in this 16 part series. There's a couple more, there's a few more awesome interviews coming up. So, I hope have you guys next week. Thank you for joining us. Did you enjoy today's show? If you did, it would mean the world to us if you could leave us a review on iTunes. Also, if you're interested, you can find many more encouraging stories and resources at Marriage After God calm and let us help you cultivate an extraordinary an marriage.

Order Marriage After God today and get a ton of free bonuses https://marriageaftergod.com

--

Today we’re in part 12 of the marriage after God Series and we’re gonna be talking with Sam and Amanda Ciurdar about God’s Will for your marriage

A Quote From Marriage After God

“As the people of God and as children of the Creator, it is our inheritance to take on the family business of proclaiming with our words, actions, and love for one another that Christ came to reconcile the world to God.”

PRAYER

Dear Lord,

Thank you for your holy word. Thank you for sharing with us what your will is for our lives and what your will is for our marriages. We ask that we would continue growing in knowledge and understanding of your word. As husbands and wives, please help us to build and keep your word as our strong foundation. We pray against our flesh from getting in the way of doing your will. When we start to wrestle with our flesh, Holy Spirit please defend us and help us to have victory over our flesh. Renew our perspective of life and marriage, so that we may see what you see. Reveal to us the bigger picture of how your will is being done in us and through us. Motivate our hearts to use every part of our lives to live for you! May we understand the impact our ministry has as we walk faithfully every day with you and with each other. May we fulfill our part as your body to share your gospel with this lost world.

In Jesus’ name, amen!

READ TRANSCRIPT

Hey, we're Aaron and Jennifer Smith with Marriage After God.

Helping you cultivate an extraordinary marriage.

And today, we're in part twelve of the Marriage After God series and we're gonna be talking with Sam and Amanda Ciurdar about God's Will For Your Marriage. Welcome to the Marriage After God podcast, where we believe that marriage was meant for more than just happily ever after.

I'm Jennifer, also known as Unveiled Wife.

And, I'm Aaron, also known as Husband Revolution.

We have been married for over a decade.

And so far, we have four young children.

We have been doing marriage ministry online for over seven years, through blogging and social media.

With a desire to inspire couples to keep God at the center of their marriage, encouraging them to walk in faith every day.

We believe that Christian Marriage should be an extraordinary one, full of life

Love

And power

That can only be found by chasing after God.

Together

Thank you for joining us on this journey, as we chase boldly after God's Will for our life together.

This is Marriage After God. So, today's guests are Sam and Amanda Ciurdar. They're great friends of ours and we're really excited for you guys to hear what they have to share with you today. But, before that, we just want to encourage you guys to leave a review. This is just a way to get the podcast out there, to share what the message is of, you know, having a marriage after God. So, if you could, just take a minute to just go review the podcast.

And, also if you love this podcast, and you want to support us, the way you can support us, is going to shop.marriageaftergod.com and picking up a copy of Marriage After God. It's our new book, it's what this series is about, and it's why we're talkin' to Sam and Amanda today. And, so, let's just get into the conversation. Sam and Amanda, we are so happy to have you on the podcast, so let's start with who you are, and how long you've been married, children, stuff like that.

Cool, well thank you for having us.

It's our pleasure to be here.

Who are we? Who are you?

I am Sam, right, or are you Sam?

Yes

I'm Sam. I am a filmmaker, and photographer, based out of Southern California. This is my wife, Amanda, and loving mother of our daughter, who is two, and a baby to be, our son coming in, like, about a month or so.

So awesome.

Gettin' really crazy up in here.

Yeah, we've been married for seven and a half years. June will be eight, which is insane we've been together for ten years, now?

It's two hands.

Yeah, two hands

Yeah, you have to count on two hands now.

I think that, yeah, I stay at home with our daughter, and soon our son, and it's just a blessing the life that we get to live together.

Awesome.

So awesome, guys, thanks for sharing and letting everyone know that, and, you know, we've known you guys for just over, you know, seven years. Because, we remember going to your wedding

Oh yeah, I was trying to think, did we know them before they were married.

I actually have a really embarrassing moment from your wedding. I don't know if you guys ever knew this, but I tripped and fell coming out of the wedding into the reception, and yeah, it was really embarrassing.

Was it high heels that you were wearing?

I was wearing high heels, I never wear high heels, and I was like, I'm gonna dress up, yeah, so I fell right on my face. That can be. That's awesome.

I think I remember that. So we've known you guys for quite a while, you guys are good friends of ours. We live separately now, but I think we still keep in touch pretty regularly.

Yes!

And, we're excited to have you on the show today, because you guys have been a part of our journey for a long time, we've been a part of your journey. Just growing in God, growing in marriage, becoming parents, and you know, we're talking about God's Will For Your Marriage. It's from Chapter 12 in our book, and we love that you guys have constantly been pursuing that in your life. And so, we're not expecting you guys to have all the answers, we just love talking to you, we wanna discuss this idea of what that looks like. And, we have some questions for you guys, and hope you are ready.

Well, probably not.

So, where to start. Start with the icebreaker.

Being honest.

Yeah

We're gonna start with the icebreaker, so you know, this is lighthearted stuff here. Where have been your favorite place to travel together?

We probably agree on this one, I would say Iceland.

Yeah, we went to Iceland. It took us two years to get pregnant with our daughter, and in those two years, we traveled a lot. And those two years, are some of the best years of our life, and I think God really allowed us to

Well, I'm thinking that in the year that we ended up getting pregnant, I know I personally had been on thirteen trips in twelve months, and I think you were on twelve of those with me.

Yeah, so it was crazy, but Iceland was during that time, and so, it was a really kind of vulnerable time in our life. But a really special kind of unifying trip, and Iceland is an incredibly beautiful place, so it was definitely unique for multiple reasons.

Iceland, that's the green one, right?

Yeah, the green one.

Greenland's the white one, and Iceland's the green one.

Thank the Vikings for that.

Yeah, they switched them on purpose, yeah. Well, that's awesome. What's our favorite trip that we've ever been on together?

Canada?

Corona

Corona? No, not Corona.

I would say our last trip to Maine, that was really wonderful.

That was actually, Maine, I want to go back to Maine, you're right that was a good one.

We've been to Maine, too.

Especially in the Fall, the leaves were changing, yeah.

Beautiful

Good food.

Awesome, good answers to the icebreaker.

Iceland, icebreaker.

Oh, there you go, yeah.

So, I'm gonna share a quote real quick from, and this might set a tone for us, its from Chapter 12 from the Marriage After God book, God's Will For Your Marriage, and this is the quote "As the people of God and as the children of the Creator, "it is our inheritance to take on the family business "of proclaiming with our words, actions and love "for one another that Christ came "to reconcile the world to God." And so, that's kinda this big, big, big picture, like the overall, large Will that God has for His people. So, but, you know, how does that play out in the everyday, how does that play out in all the unique details of our lives and what God's doing with us. It's kinda what we wanna talk about today, so.

Yeah, which leads us into our first question, and that's when you hear the term God's Will, what do you guys think of?

That's a big question.

That's a loaded question.

That's a loaded question.

Honestly, for me, when I think of the word, God's Will, I kinda substitute it for the word, plan. And, that His Plan, is far superior than my own, so that's kinda what I think of my mind I guess.

What I think of is that God has His Perfect Will, and His Permissible Will. His Perfect Will being His Perfect Plan, of course, the trajectory for our lives that He would have us take. And then, Permissible, as what He allows to happen in our lives, or decisions that He allows us to make. And, so, that's kinda where my mind goes when I think about that, when I think about those two, kinda, avenues

Yeah

That's good. So, I think, I like those words you used, you know, His Perfect Will, His Permissible Will, we've talked about that a lot in the past, and just the two different varying ideas of that. And, then, I liked the word, Plan, you know, what's His Plan like, what is His Plan for my life, you know.

What's my Will for everyday, you know, like, and we'll probably jump into that more. Like if I change the word, Will, to Plan, it kinda, I don't know, pretty much grounds it a little bit more, for me.

Right, yeah, I think that's a good word for listeners to be like, okay, God's Will is like His Plan. And, I feel like that many Christians want to know God's specific Will for their lives, I feel like, especially, Millennials and these younger generations, what's my call, what's my passion, what am I supposed to do in this world? You know that we hear that a lot. But, in the Christian terms, what is our unique ministry, or call on our life? And, we wonder that, but it can feel elusive or ambiguous. Do you guys feel that way in your life? Do you feel like God's Will and Plan for your life, specifically, is ambiguous, or elusive, or do you guys feel otherwise?

For me personally, I would say no, because I guess I'm kind of a unique case, that ever since I was a kid, I've always known what I wanted to do with my life. And I wasn't going to, I was going to fight for it, like you know, I had no extra, I had no plan B, there was no extra alphabet letters for me, it was plan A, or bust. For me, I always knew I wanted to be a filmmaker, photographer, and be like, a storyteller through visuals. And, I know, it's been something that God placed on me, because it's allowed me to effortlessly to somehow work in the Church world, doing video work, that's kinda led to other opening, doors opening, and it's kinda been like a chain reaction. And, I know that God's called me to do it, I don't know on what scale, but I know His Plan is still unraveling for me in that sense, and what He wants me to do in that realm. So, for me, it's kinda hard, because I have friends who always go, like, I don't know what I'm supposed to do with my life, I don't even know what my passion is. You know, for me, I've been passionate about this one thing since I was probably five years old, you know.

I know ever since I've known you.

Yeah

Ever since I've known myself

You've had a natural draw toward it, and a talent to go with it.

And I know, that's not the case for a lot of people. A lot of people don't even know what they want to do 'til college years, you know, so for me, it's literally been through from my DNA, and I know God placed it there on purpose.

Definitely

Go ahead, Aaron, did you have a question for Sam?

I was just going to say, Amanda, how does that planned out the question for you?

So, Sam having this call on his life has, God has worked through and allowed me to be able to stay at home. Which, becoming a mom for me was a total identity shift, because this question was, I would say for me, so does it feel elusive and ambiguous? I would say, yes and no, for me. It seems to have ebb and flow through the different seasons that life brings. I think for a long time, I felt kind of maybe lost, maybe less than, because I didn't have this big pull toward something specific, towards starting an organization, or you know, being a missionary in Africa, or you know, doing things just really big scale, like, just things like that, and so, it's kind of made me feel like, well, other people are doing these big things, like does God have this big grand plan for my life, and I

Being a mom is no joke

Being a mom is no joke, but anybody who is a stay at home mom, or mom, I guess, on any scale, would probably agree and say that the day to day doesn't really feel very grand. You know, when I'm sitting and reading a book with my daughter, or I'm coloring Minnie Mouse on the next coloring book, like we did tonight

You color very well though

I did stay inside the lines, so, but I've learned that it doesn't have to be one big thing, and that it looks different for everybody. And, that God calls some people to really big things, multiple things, smaller scale things, and I think for right now for my season of life, my season is being a mother. That's what He's allowed me to do, that's what He's brought Sam's career to a place where I'm able to do that.

But, even in terms of since I've known you, like our first date, I think I asked you what is your dream in life. And, you didn't have a career dream, you literally said I would love to be a stay at home mom.

Yeah

So that's here we are seven years later.

But, I see these amazing women, who are moms that also have these, you know, careers that they're pursuing, so that was a struggle for me, when I first became a mom, I guess let it feel like a nothin' So, for me I think what it could mean for my life is living out the Fruits of the Spirit intentionally each day in my home, and when I go out. And working at being obedient, and open, and flexible as a vessel for God's Purposes, whether it's big and grand to me, or small. Like I was telling Sam earlier, it feels a little bit like, you know, if you put five bucks, if you donate five bucks to the Church, or wherever, like, what we could do with that five dollars is so much different than what God could do with that five dollars. Do you know what I mean? So, that's kind of how it feels like. What may seem small and insignificant in my day to day, like, I never know the impact that God's gonna take, how He's gonna, how it's gonna manifest in the future. If that makes sense.

Right

Yeah, I mean, like, being a stay at home mom, she's able to share that lifestyle on her social media, and I think it's just manifested into something else that I don't think either one of us really knows what's happening behind that digital curtain, you know what I mean?

Right

The lives that we impact, we don't even know, it could be one person, it could be hundreds of people. But, I know a lot of people, you know Amanda's not going to say this, but I know a lot of women look up to her as a woman and as a mom.

That's a powerful thought.

Seriously, we're only two questions in, and I'm like, you guys this is so powerful. And I think those listening are being so encouraged right now, because so many are, you know, stay at home moms, or are moms with, you know, businesses or careers in other things that they're doing, or even dads, you know, and I think that it can, I just feel like you guys are hitting so many points right now that are encouraging people's hearts. And I just wanted to say thank you for your authenticity, and your transparency right now, because we need to hear it.

Yeah, and I also think the idea that we sometimes think, you know, ministry or God's Will for my life, it doesn't look like that other person, that comparison idea, so I must not be doing it.

We talk about that all the time

We do

Someone who could be on a pastor or, you know, preaching in front of thousands of people, people go like, oh man, this guy is doing things for the Kingdom, you know, but at home you don't know what's happening. You know, it's because of putting on this facade

Could be

It could be, yes, of course, I'm not saying it's everybody, obviously, but you know, we try not to put up any facades or anything like that, and we both work from home, so not a lot of people see what we do.

And, here's the thing you guys, if you guys are a parent, you're doing something every single day for God's ministry, you're building up His Kingdom by raising godly children, and children who will know Him, and will walk in His ways, and so, that right there, is such a powerful ministry, regardless if anyone on social media ever knows.

Yeah, and that's what, you know, one of the things we want to draw out in this book so much, is that God does have a Will for our life and marriage, and just because it doesn't look like what other people are doing, God wants us to be obedient where He has us. He wants us to serve Him and love Him and worship Him where He has us. And, not to, you know, that's coveting, we don't, He doesn't want us to covet anything, let alone someone else's, you know, talent or resource, or what God's given them. And, so it sounds like you guys, have settled into the idea that what you have, is what God has for you to do.

Yeah, absolutely

Yeah

And it's not someone else's thing, and it's not some other thing

Yeah, the only way, like I get, I've tied it in somehow going back to social media is, you know, when you have a decent following on a platform, a lot of people think to themselves, I wish I had this because I wish I had this many followers because then I'd get more people to see my work, or something like that. But, I've always encouraged people that if God has given you an audience of a hundred, those are a hundred hearers for you to preach to, or, you know, send a message to, or whatever, and if you're, you know, get blessed to have more, that's just more hearers, you know.

And more responsibility

And more responsibility, absolutely, so if you have five people who follow you on a social platform, what do you want to tell those five people, you know. It's kinda equals out, that's for sure.

I love that, so do you guys, and that's exactly what we're getting at with this, is like, we're in God's vocation. What we do with our life, whether it be a filmmaker, a photographer, a mom, it's the, we have the same, God has the same Will for us as He does for everyone. It's to do His Will, it's to spread His message, to our children, to our coworkers, to that person that we are going to the coffee shop with, or you know, do you guys see yourself in ministry together? Even in these separate roles?

Do we see ourselves in ministry together? We do, well, we're both home, with Lucy. Sam's work is often at home, he doesn't have to travel very often, and so I think that, Lucy has a bit of a unique childhood, in that she has both parents home. And so, like I said, I really believe, well I haven't said it yet, but I'm sure that I will, but the ministry at home is the most important some of the, you know, just what you do at home. And so, having a mom and having a dad, being able to influence her, discipline her, et cetera, I think that's a huge thing, and then, a lot of our lives are also on social media, and

Yeah, I really think that the ministry word, can be such a larger scale, 'cause it's literally at least for me, I try to live in my house the same way I do out and about and in public.

That's good, yeah.

So like, you know, I'm not, I don't try to be all loving with other people out and about, and come home and I'm like mad, or like short with my wife and daughter. You know, if I'm short and frustrated with my daughter at home, I'm short and frustrated with other people out and about, you know. Nah, I'm just kidding, like

You're consistent

I try to be consistent But, I think, you know, the ministry that we're called to do is to literally love one another as much as we possibly can, you know, and on this Earth as Christians we are not here to judge. That's not our place, we have one Judge. So, while we are here on Earth, I feel like our calling is just to literally love on every single person. And, I think in doing that, it creates a light, and people are attracted to light, and people will naturally be like, oh, what's so different about you, and why, you know, who is this person, and I'm curious about it, and that can open up doors, you know. And that's simply as, if you're a barista, saying hi, or like, picking up a coffee for somebody, they'll be like, ah, that doesn't happen very often, and that even comes down to generosity, it's contagious, you know. So, that's what I feel like my ministry in life is to try and lead, but like lead as much by example, as I possibly can, you know, not necessarily walk around with a soap box, and like, shoving things down people's throat, you know.

Yeah, I love that, so you know, we asked the question if you see yourself in ministry together, and sometimes it's hard to think of well, yeah, he does this and I do this, and yeah, sometimes we do that together. But, there's so much more in this idea of it being on the same team, being one in our ministry. So, you know, Amanda and the way she is around you, and the way she serves you, and loves you, gives you that energy and ability to go and do the same to others, and then the way you love and cherish your wife, allows her to have the energy and strength to not only, you know, disciple her children well, and love them well, and be with them and have the energy to do that. But, then also her girlfriends and, you know, her people that she sees when she's out and about, and so it's this oneness that we have, that we get to fulfill the Will of God, together. That's kinda, it's exactly what you're saying. Like, you're like, you know, it's our life, we are a light in this world, and we're preaching God's message, not our own. And, even though, it looks different in our individual ways of being during the day, we do it together, you know, that's kinda where we're hoping to encourage those listening. Whether you can perfectly verbalize it, that's what you are doing, that's how you explained it.

It's a sport

It's a team sport, yeah.

And you're not playing singles tennis over here, you know, you're playing like a huge team sport. And, the funny thing is, we've already won, so that's like you should be able, can you imagine if every team knew that they won, how much boldly they would play.

Yeah, we actually have a question up here. We skipped it because you guys kinda answered it already. But, I love that you just said, that if they knew they were gonna make every goal, how boldly they'd play. It says if you knew exactly what God's Will was for your marriage, would it encourage you to pursue it? Right.

Yeah, we were talking about that one earlier. I'll say my answer first. I honestly believe that if you're in your Word, and you're praying, you know, continuously, daily, that your heart ends up aligning with God's heart. And that you're, at the end of the day, your will almost becomes His Will, and vice a versa.

Yeah, I love that

It's aligned, so naturally, sorry, so of course I would want to pursue God's Will in marriage, and in all things, because I feel like my heart is aligned with what He wants, you know. And, again, it comes down to God's Will, right, God's Will, actually change the word from Will to Plan, why would I not want His Plan, because His Plan is definitely gonna be way better than my own plan. And His timing

Amen

More than my own timing

I love that, I think you nailed it too. Real quick, sorry, in God's Word, in prayer, I thought it was good that your will begins to align

It does

And it's funny because, you know, being a Christian, I've been a Christian for as long as I've known myself.

You've known yourself a long time

A very long time, and I've been a Christian, not the entire time, but Amanda and my resolution for last year was to read the entire Bible in a year's time.

Oh cool

You know we've read the Bible in pieces over our lives, and stuff, but actually never in its entirety. And in doing that, every single day, you know, I literally sought Him more, you know, it's like hanging out with your best friend every day. You get to know that person so much more, you're in more conversations, you know, it's hard to know somebody if you're not talking

Amen, I love that, thank you for encouraging our listeners to read through the Bible this year. I love that.

Honestly, if you guys want, I

If we can do it, you can do it

Yeah, and it's just really just the Holy Bible, the YouVersion, there's plans in there, 'cause we were thinking about how do we do this, you know

Genesis, Chapter One, is the beginning of the Bible

Yeah, it's written chronologically

Yeah, there's a chronological plan that was in there. For me, as a storyteller, I've never read the Bible in this way, because it literally was, you know, the events from the beginning to the end, in chronological order, wasn't just reading Genesis to Revelation.

Right, 'cause that's not necessarily in chronological order, yeah.

Yeah, and so for me, I'm like, whoa, this makes so much more sense, to see literally the whole like, especially, the New Testament, I mean the Old Testament, literally, kinda like, flow and me playing it as a movie in my head, you can see like the cross space between each book, and stuff like that, where the new characters are coming in but they're related, it's just, it just really opened up my eyes in a whole new way.

Love that

So, for me, for this one, if you knew exactly what God's Will was for your marriage, would it encourage you to pursue it? My answer is maybe, and that's because I know in having lived life, and seen other people live life, that God's Will can be scary at times. Because we sometimes don't understand it, we sometimes question it, it takes faith, a tremendous amount of faith, to trust in the unseen and in the uncertain. So, if He were to reveal that to me, would I jump in with both feet, and be like, okay cool, I'm on board. I don't know that I would, because

I think a majority of us would probably agree with you

Right, and because I have flesh, and you know, God's Will is amazing, but it's not always

Easy

Designed, yeah, to make us happy, and so. But that's not why we're here, that's not our purpose, you now, and so, we're here to love God and love others, and to establish and further His Kingdom. And so

And living a, you know, in God's Will is literally hard. Living a Christian life is hard, because you get tried all the time, and it's just funny, it's one of those things where it's like, you know, you pray that you want patience, for whatever reason, and God doesn't just grant, He's not a genie, He's not gonna grant to you patience, He's gonna test you

He teaches you

With patience, like, oh my God, why am I going through this again. He's like, well, you stopped learning your lesson

It's a scary thing to pray for

He doesn't just grant you wishes, so it's definitely hard.

He gives us His Spirit, and then empowers us to walk in the things that He tells us to walk in. Like, endurance, and patience, and peace when everything's chaotic

But I love Sam's answer too for this one, in just that your will really does, that's how you know, you know, that's how you know God's Will, because you're in His Word and you're praying, and your will will align with His, so even if He were to reveal that Will to me, if I was close enough to Him, I would understand this isn't about me, this isn't about my happiness, this is about other people, and about furthering His Kingdom. And, like you said Aaron, it's the Spirit would give me the strength, and the courage to accomplish what He's called me to do, and us to do in our marriage.

Yeah, I don't even remember what the question is, but I'm just going off on a tangent

Go for it, go for it

Two things, one of our pastors told us within this past year that has absolutely stuck with me is, if your vertical relationship with God is aligned, and good, your horizontal relationships with people on Earth, are that much better as well. So, if I can't have a good vertical relationship with God, my relationship with my wife isn't gonna be as great.

Strained

So, if I focus, naturally, if you're having a bad relationship with somebody, bad relationship with your wife, you stop focusing on that person specifically, and start focusing on your vertical relationship with God, naturally, you'll start aligning and then your horizontal relationships start to align as well. That was just a big thing that I heard, and it just really stuck with me. And the other thing is, a lot of people just want joy in their life, and the pastor broke it down, if you want JOY, what's called an acronym, or whatever

Yeah, acronym, yeah

So if you put J, you put Jesus first, at all times, and then you put Others second, and you put Yourself last, naturally, you become joyous. And, that's how I've always been, and I don't know if that's something that my parents instilled in me, actually, once you become a Christian, that's when you put Jesus first, but I've always put others before myself. And, it's kinda like that saying where it feels better to give than to receive, you know. So, I think about, that's where a lot of joy comes from. When you're selfish, it's really absolutely hard for you to be joyous, because you're not being fulfilled.

So, what you're saying is, in our marriage how we can fulfill God's Will for our marriage, and our lives, is to love God, love each other, and love others. I love that, because that's essentially

Relationship, focus on Jesus, focus on your wife, and don't even think about yourself.

Yeah, yeah, more specific

Can you imagine if your wife just focused on you, and you focused on your wife, like you're filled with so much love.

Oh, man, it's that I'll take up the cross thing, right? Lay myself down, you know

Super easy

I love that.

Well, I really enjoyed just sitting back listening to you guys, this has been great.

Did you guys even know that Sam could talk this much?

I didn't, this is great.

This is the most that I've ever heard Sam talk

I wanna jump in and just again, just thank you for your vulnerability, and Amanda you had mentioned in saying that sometimes if we were to have known God's Will, the big picture, we would be scared, or it would be hard. So in keeping in line with that theme, have you guys ever passed up participating in something that God's invited you to do because you were afraid or because you thought you weren't qualified to do it?

That's a hard question. The main thing for me that comes to mind, just off the top of my head, is I had kinda always felt a pull to sing on our worship teams at different churches and stuff, but just never felt good enough to do it. And, I did actually get up the courage, I've been a Christian most of my life, and so I ignored kinda that pull for many years, until our, a couple churches ago, so that was like maybe three, four years ago. And I got up the courage and I sang in a little audition thing, and they loved it, and I got out there, and God gave me the courage to kinda do that, and so, but the fear of kinda not being good enough, which is so ridiculous, and I know its ridiculous, but you just get in your head and you wonder what people are gonna think. I don't know, we all have some form of comparison in our lives, you know, and then we all have those insecurities speaking in our ears. Sometimes we're great at casting them down, and sometimes we believe them. So, that's kinda the only thing that I can think of, and I'm so glad that I did it.

Cool, that's a good little story

I don't think I really have an answer for it, because I went through a season where I was passionate about music, and I was drumming, and God put it on me to see if I could do music in the church, and I played drums for awhile. I was nervous, but I did that. I feel like that whatever passions I've had, or callings, that He's given me, I've kind of at least tried it, but I've never had, for example, the desire to be a preacher, or anything like that.

But you tell stories with your videos.

Yeah, absolutely, but if someone would be like, hey, come tell us a sermon, I'd be like, no thanks. They'd be like, well why not, well, God hasn't put it on my heart to do so. Like, I don't feel comfortable doing it, and God hasn't like tugged me in that direction. I don't really see why

Yeah, Sam doesn't really get nervous or anything

And I really don't fall under peer pressure

Right And at the end of the day, we just wanna be obedient to the things God's given us, and like you said, not just wanting that other ministry that someone else has, because it seems like a greater ministry. But, take what God's given us, you know, being a mother, being a filmmaker, and using our marriage to glorify God, and to love people, and to show them who Christ is through our lives, and through our actions, and through our words. That's what God wants. We want Him to say one day when we look at Him, well done, good and faithful servant.

Absolutely

You've taken what I've given you, and you invested it well. And, that's the purpose of this whole episode, actually. Is to encourage those listening that, like, hey, it may not look like what other people are doing, but it's still God's Will for your life to serve God this way, to love your wife, to love your husband, to disciple your children, to love them. To love others, and to proclaim His Gospel to the world, through our lives, actions and words. So, we're gonna, we're not gonna get through all the questions, and that's okay, But, we want to get to this last question, and it's a really important one, and you better get the answer right, Amanda. I'm just kidding. In your own words, what is a marriage after God?

Want me to go?

Yeah, sure

I, you know, if you want to learn anything from God, I think you just need to open the Bible, and I feel like that God is very specific in the Bible, by giving us Chapters like Ephesians Chapter 5 and 1 Peter, and you know, there are specific instructions towards husbands and wives. And it's actually pretty insane

How specific it is?

Yeah, how specific it is, especially 1 Peter Chapter three verse seven, I have it pulled up right here, and it says "Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live "with your wives" It's funny that it says wives, 'cause I kinda think of it as one person living with multiple wives.

It's not though, yeah

No, no, no, no

"And treat them with respect, as the weaker partner, "and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, "so that nothing will hinder your prayers." That part right there, hinder your prayers, meaning if you do not show your wife respect in all these things, either God will not receive your prayers in full, or

You won't be able to pray

Or, yeah

Too frustrated or

Find it difficult to pray, that's kinda a big deal. So, it's like God's given you all the blueprints on how to have a godly Marriage, and its all, I don't feel like He's just kinda given us this life just to try to figure it out, and tell each other how to live a godly life. It's like in the Book, He's giving this message specifically for us to read it, you know, generations to come, and I think its' important for me as a dad and as a man in the house to make sure that my daughter knows that this is how she needs to be treated by a man, and now, having a son, how he needs to treat a woman. So, honestly, for me, it's just literally read the Bible and all your answers

And do what It says, yeah, I like that

Seems very simple. I read a book once called Sacred Marriage, that I totally need to read again, it's just a fantastic book, I forget the author,

Gary Thomas

Yeah, it's such a great book, and I read it years ago at the beginning of our marriage, but there was a quote in it that has stuck with me ever since then, and it says, I don't know if this is verbatim, but it says "Marriage is not meant to make us happy, but holy" And that was a really huge idea when I read it, and just, like does God care about our happiness, of course He does, but not ever at the expense of our holiness.

Amen

Sam was talking about our journey through the Bible last year, and reading through the Old Testament, is like crazy, it's wild, it like strings together a lot of the stories that we've heard kinda growing up as Christians, it's linked things together, ideas. But, I think a lot of the Old Testament was included in the Bible because God, it just shows us the measures that God took to ensure His people were holy, and consecrated. And to make sure that they not only looked different, but they lived differently, and when they didn't, there were consequences. And a lot of the times, it was death. Which of course, there were incredibly high standards, and that led for our need for Jesus. Thank God, I'm so glad that

Thank Him

I don't live in those days because those were it says crazy days. But, a marriage after God, seeks to be holy, I think, and needs to be intimate, whole and aware and active in its pursuit of loving God and loving others. And I know that's what we try to do, and we pretty much fail most of the time.

Then you get back up and keep going

Sam is perfect, everybody before himself, but I just think that the idea of holiness is something that all marriages are called to. And it's not something that can be accomplished on your own, it has to be through the Fruits of the Spirit, and just the Holy Spirit in general. And inviting Him into your everyday lives, and specifically parenting too. We're trying to remember to invite the Holy Spirit into every aspect of your life, is something for me, I have to remember constantly to do that, whether we are in a argument, or in a heated parenting moment, or at just different things, whatever life throws at you.

I love that Amanda

Yeah, it's a lot of intentionality to strive for holiness.

Both those definitions I thought were really powerful. Thank you for that, so Sam, Amanda, where can people find you on Instagram, what's you guys' handles?

Our last name is very easy to spell, it's kind of like Smith is a breeze

No, it's not

Our last names are kind of difficult, but my Instagram handle is @SamCiurdar, and Amanda's is @AmandaCiurdar, and our last names are spelled C-I-U-R-D-A-R, good luck everybody.

AmandaCi or SamCi we should pop up, I think

Yeah, and you should pull them, they're great people they post about their life, and what's going on, so go follow them. And as usual, well first of all, thank you Sam and Amanda for coming on and sharing a little bit of your life with us, and encouraging all of the marriages that are listening that God has a Will for all of us, and we all get to walk in it, and we all get to be in it. So, yeah, thank you.

Thanks for having us

Absolutely, thanks for having us, for sure.

Before we close, as usual, we're gonna close with a prayer, and Jennifer, would you like to pray for us?

Sure Dear Lord, thank You for Your Holy Word. Thank you for sharing with us what Your Will is for our lives, and what Your will is for our marriages. We ask that we would continue growing in knowledge and understanding of Your Word. As husbands and wives, please help us to build and keep your Word as our strong foundation. We pray against our flesh from getting in the way of doing Your Will. When we start to wrestle with our flesh, Holy Spirit please defend us and help us to have victory over our flesh. Renew our perspective of life and marriage, so that we may see what You see. Reveal to us the bigger picture of how Your Will is being done in us, and through us. Motivate our hearts to use every part of our lives to live for You. May we understand the impact our ministry has as we walk faithfully every day with You and with each other. May we fulfill our part as Your body to share Your gospel with this lost world. In Jesus' Name, Amen.

Amen, thanks for joining us this week, and we look forward to having you next week as we get into Chapter 13, Part 13 of this series. See you next week.

Did you enjoy today's show? If you did, it would mean the world to us if you could leave us a review on iTunes. Also, if you're interested, you can find many more encouraging stories and resources at marriageaftergod.com. And let us help you cultivate an extraordinary marriage.

We want to invite you to join the Marriage After God book launch team. We need your help and know that we can't do it without you :)

PS> you'll be able to download and read the books today :)

https://marriageaftergod.com/launchteam

Join the MArriage After God movement and order a copy of our new book today.

https://marriageaftergod.com

Quote From the book:

“...what we see as inadequate, God sees as enough.”

Prayer

Dear Lord,

We thank You for the way you created us and we thank you for your rich provision. Thank you for equipping us for the work you have for us to do. May our eyes be opened so that we can see all of the wonderful ways you have equipped us. Use us to encourage our spouse in the ways you have equipped them as well. We ask that you use every one of our marriage to bring you glory and to spread your gospel. We pray against fear and against the temptation to bury the gifts you have given to us. We ask that you remove our insecurities far from our hearts and help us to trust in you. We pray that we would walk in confidence as we chase boldly after you and as we pursue doing the very things you created us and created our marriages to do!

In Jesus’ name, amen!

READ TRANSCRIPT

[Aaron] Hey, we're Aaron and Jennifer Smith with Marriage after God.

[Jennifer] Helping you cultivate an extraordinary marriage.

[Aaron] And today, we're in part 11 of the Marriage after God series, and we're going to be talking with Katie and Elisha Voetberg about taking inventory. Welcome to the Marriage after God podcast, where we believe that marriage was meant for more than just happily ever after.

[Jennifer] I'm Jennifer, also known as Unveiled Wife.

[Aaron] And I'm Aaron, also known as Husband Revolution.

[Jennifer] We have been married for over a decade.

[Aaron] And so far, we have four young children.

[Jennifer] We have been doing marriage ministry online for over seven years through vlogging and social media.

[Aaron] With the desire to inspire couples to keep God at the center of their marriage, encouraging them to walk in faith every day.

[Jennifer] We believe that Christian marriage should be an extraordinary one, full of life.

[Aaron] Love.

[Jennifer] And power.

[Aaron] That can only be found by chasing after God.

[Jennifer] Together.

[Aaron] Thank you for joining us on this journey as we chase boldly after God's will for our life together.

[Jennifer] This is Marriage after God. So today's guests are Elisha and Katie Voetberg from the podcast Now That We're Family.

[Aaron] So before we get to the interview with Katie and Elisha Voetberg, we would love to ask anyone that's listening if they have not already to leave a review for us. That helps other people find the podcast. It helps the rankings in iTunes. So if you have a moment, leave us a star rating, leave us a text review. We'd love to see that.

[Jennifer] We also wanna invite you guys to check out our new book Marriage after God, which is available at our store. So just go to shop.marriageaftergod.com to check that out and get your copy today.

[Aaron] Yeah, that's the whole point of this series, is we're promoting our book coming out on June fourth, and we would love for you to get a copy of it. But following in the series, we're almost done with it, and we're excited to have you. Okay, Katie, Elisha, friends of ours.

[Jennifer] Thank you for being here.

[Elisha] No, thank you!

[Katie] We're so stoked to be here today.

[Aaron] We're here in our garage. Usually we record in our office, so there might be a little bit more echo, but this fits all of us. It's this fun little setup we got, I love it.

[Jennifer] And it's in person.

[Aaron] Yeah.

[Jennifer] So I feel like it's just fun all around.

[Aaron] So thanks for joining us, and no one is probably gonna know you, so why don't you guys tell everyone who you are, how long you've been married, kids, stuff like that.

[Elisha] Right on, yeah. So my name is Elisha Peter Voetberg, and this is my lovely wife Kathryn Joy Voetberg, and we've been married for three years now, and we're pregnant with our third child.

[Jennifer] Woohoo!

[Elisha] So we've got a two-year-old. Yeah, we're really pumped. We've got our two-year-old, Leon Tucker, and our daughter Lucy's just about a year, and then we've got our third baby on the way. And we love being a part of fellowship with you guys, doing fellowship.

[Aaron] Oh, I forgot to mention we go to church with them.

[Elisha] Yeah, that's right. That's a huge highlight for us. And we're just really excited about life with each other and seeing what God can do through the family unit and through marriage.

[Aaron] Cool, and that's why you guys started your podcast, was you loved what God was doing in your marriage and in your family, and we'll get into some more of your guys' background in a little bit. But yeah, if you haven't checked out their podcast, it's Now That We Are Family, and you can just search for that on iTunes or anywhere you can get podcasts, actually, so.

[Jennifer] Awesome, okay, moving right along.

[Aaron] This is our fun little section. We love this part.

[Jennifer] Yeah, we wanted to invite you guys to join us for the icebreaker question, which is, what is one of your funniest marriage moments?

[Elisha] Funniest, Katie?

[Aaron] Katie has one, and she's prepared.

[Katie] I am prepared. No, well, I would have to say one of our funniest marriage moments is probably the most ironic marriage moment, 'cause it was actually a fight.

[Elisha] That's true.

[Katie] But people think it's funny.

[Elisha] It's funny now, right?

[Katie] Yeah, exactly.

[Aaron] Not in the moment, but it is absolutely funny now for everyone else.

[Katie] Exactly, so it happened at our honeymoon, and I think it was the first wake-up call Elisha had to who he had married.

[Aaron] Oh, no.

[Elisha] Yeah, so yeah, I guess I'll tell the story. Katie and I, you're gonna hear more about our families, but we were both brought up in big families, and Katie's family was extremely strict when it came to sugar intake. And my family definitely was health-conscientious, but certainly not as strict regarding sugar as Katie's family was.

[Katie] Nowhere close.

[Elisha] Nowhere close.

[Aaron] Yeah. And I think it was day four of our honeymoon, and I viewed our honeymoon as being a time that was celebratory, and you can kinda splurge.

[Aaron] Yeah, which means it doesn't matter what you eat.

[Elisha] It doesn't matter what you eat.

[Aaron] You can have as much as you want.

[Elisha] Exactly, that's how I was viewing it. And so, it was the evening of our fourth night, I think, the fourth day in our honeymoon, and we decided to get a little treat for a movie that we were gonna watch. And so, I got a pack of Skittles, just like the normal size. It wasn't the super size, it wasn't the party size. It was just the normal serving size of Skittles. And Katie didn't want anything, and that really blew my mind. I was like, you're not gonna get a treat? She goes, no. She was like, I'll have some of yours, which is classic, right?

[Jennifer] Yeah, you're like, no you're not.

[Elisha] Classic, yeah, exactly. And so, we started watching the movie, and I had a few Skittles, and then Katie took three Skittles and she told me that that was gonna be enough for her.

[Katie] No, I had, okay, yeah. Okay, I guess, but this is a classic like, let me help you tell the story, honey. But I ended up eating 11 Skittles.

[Aaron] She remembers the exact number.

[Katie] Which was splurging for me. And Elisha was like, you're counting your Skittles? But then I took the Skittles away from him.

[Elisha] Yeah, after I had eaten maybe 20 or 25 Skittles.

[Katie] That's a lot of Skittles.

[Elisha] Yeah.

[Katie] Up until this point, I'd maybe had like one. Anyways, like, my family, I'm one of 11 kids, and we would split a bag of Skittles and make it last for two or three days.

[Aaron] Wow, that's incredible, actually.

[Katie] Anyways, yeah, so it led to kind of a crazy fight, and since then, I realize that I am the one that most people don't agree with on this story.

[Aaron] Yeah, Skittles are usually a single-event, single-instance candy.

[Elisha] Yeah, that's how I viewed it, exactly. She wanted to save it.

[Aaron] It's one serving, isn't it, like, the whole bag?

[Elisha] Exactly, I thought it was one serving too.

[Katie] I wouldn't believe it, and we had to read the back.

[Jennifer] Awesome.

[Aaron] That is funny now, for sure.

[Elisha] It's funny now. Well, you know what's funny is that we're laughing about it, but she was dead serious at the moment. She grabbed the bag from me.

[Katie] I hid 'em.

[Elisha] Yeah, and I thought she was being playful and kind of flirtatious. I was like, oh, come on, give me the Skittles back. She's like, no, we'll finish 'em later, like we can have 'em tomorrow or the next day. I was like, are you kidding me? I want them now.

[Aaron] I wonder how many people are gonna really relate to this. They're like, this is exactly how we are with Skittles.

[Jennifer] That's so awesome.

[Aaron] We both would get our own bags of Skittles.

[Jennifer] For sure.

[Aaron] And our own bag of, what else would we get?

[Jennifer] And remind each other that we're not sharing.

[Aaron] Please don't have any of mine. Get your own bag if you want some.

[Elisha] I don't think Katie can view you the same way anymore, now that she knows that.

[Jennifer] That's okay. Okay, so we're gonna, we always share a quote, and we're gonna share a quote from Marriage after God from chapter 11, Take Inventory. Aaron, do you wanna?

[Aaron] Yeah, so what we see as inadequate, God sees as enough. It's a smaller part of a bigger quote in a bigger context, but the idea is that oftentimes, we might see things that we have in our life, abilities, skills, and they're not good enough for God or adequate for what God wants to do in our life or through our life. And so we think we need something else. Oh, I don't have what it takes, that kind of mentality, but it's exactly what God's already given us, and he requires and desires us to invest it as we have it. It doesn't mean that we don't get better at things, but that's kind of the context of this, and we're gonna talk about this idea of taking inventory and we're gonna ask the questions to you guys, 'cause you guys haven't read the book yet, which is totally fine.

[Elisha] Right.

[Aaron] Because I think we all can learn and start to understand in our life that God's given us things, and he desires us to invest them, and not because we're trying to commend ourselves to God, but he wants us to invest them for his sake, for our sake, and it's because we love him that we invest them. So that's the quote, and then we can get into the topic and some questions for you guys.

[Elisha] Cool.

[Aaron] Are you guys excited about the questions?

[Elisha] I am excited.

[Aaron] Okay.

[Jennifer] Okay, you guys are a young family figuring out what God has for you as a couple. How has that journey been so far? So you can describe things like how you feel about it, highs and lows, or maybe a significant story that stands out to you?

[Katie] Yeah, so I think there have been a lot of highs and lows in our three years of marriage, and I think our first month of marriage was kind of indicative to that. Elisha was making I think $1800 at the time working at a restaurant, and our rent was 1150. So I don't even know how we quite managed to make it all work that month. We were doing a ton of odd jobs, and we started three different businesses our first month of marriage, and got pregnant.

[Aaron] A little bit of things.

[Katie] Yeah, like all of those moving parts I think really affected the last few years, but I think it's been so cool to see how God has worked to make all those things work together, even though there was such a random smattering of things over the years. And I think we've had so much fun, even though we didn't always see the plan, and I think what's cool now is that we trust the process so much more, and we trust each other so much more. We trust God. There were so many things through starting those businesses. Like, well, one of 'em provides for us now. It's a network marketing company, and I think it really has not only provided for us now, but it allows us to pursue our passions, and it helped give us thicker skin to handle rejection and stuff like that. So there were a lot of ups and downs just in that, you know, when you start one business. Elisha was getting his real estate license, so that was new for us, being employed, and then being unemployed it feels like when you don't have a deal. But I just think it's really cool that now, when we're uncertain of today or what tomorrow holds, 'cause I feel like as entrepreneurs, that is life. We just trust each other so much more, and we're like, you know God's gonna work these things together, and we see how he's using those things we started in our first few months of marriage now.

[Jennifer] I think that's so encouraging, what you're sharing, because I think everybody has that tendency to wanna know what the next hundred steps are, like, see that bigger picture right away. But I think what you're saying is so encouraging to hear, to remind ourselves we have to just be able to trust God and trust our spouse with just that next step.

[Elisha] Mmhmm.

[Aaron] Yeah, Elisha, how do you, so, you guys have started businesses, making barely ends meet, which all of us have been there. Some people that are listening right now are probably right there right now. And you're just trying to figure out life. You guys have been married for three years, you have kids. You're just trying to figure out a lot of things, which is totally good, totally normal. But has there been times over the last few years that you feel like you're not moving in any direction, or how could God possibly use all these random difficulties and where we're at in our life?

[Elisha] Absolutely. I know there's been numerous times where I've had those exact thoughts probably verbatim in my brain, and even looking back in retrospect over three years, and even though that's not a lot of time to some people, it's enough time for us to really realize that God does work all things together for good. There are some things that I know he's gonna continue to work out over the next 10 and 20 and 30 years of our life. But when you live, early on, month to month when it comes to your paycheck, and then you get pregnant in the middle of that, and then you get pregnant with your second child when you're kind of in the same position, it really makes you realize that the Lord does provide, and I think that that has helped me really embrace the season for what it is. I know that so often, everybody wants to arrive, right? You wanna be there, whatever there is.

[Aaron] Yeah, whatever that there is.

[Elisha] Whatever that is.

[Aaron] How do we get there faster?

[Elisha] Exactly. It might be a level of your income. It might be the size of your home or the quality of your vehicles that you're driving, but looking back over these last three years and seeing what the Lord's done, it's made us enjoy the journey and enjoy the process and trust the Lord in that. And when I look at those times where I was questioning what the heck I was doing with my life and what the Lord was gonna use with these things that I was doing, I look back, and so far, he's been so faithful to, in spite of me, a lot of times, use them for his purpose and for his glory.

[Aaron] Yeah, so, I love that, and you know, this topic we're talking about, take inventory, is off chapter 11 of our book, and the idea of the chapter, we're not gonna go into too much of it, is that we can look at our lives and realize that there are, not certain things, that everything in our life, the inventory of our life, can be evaluated and looked at and say, okay, Lord, how are you using that season of life, that idea, that business that we wanted to start or that passion we have or that pain we felt? And so, what you're kinda saying is you've been looking back and saying, okay, I didn't know what I was doing then, but God's using that now.

[Elisha] Yes.

[Aaron] So when you look back over the last few years, and we're gonna get into your family in the next question, you look back over your life, taking this idea of inventory, can you guys pinpoint, be like, oh, wow, these things in our life, this way we were raised, certain giftings we have, talents, that's our inventory, that's what's on the shelf for us. Can you name a few of those things, and then we're gonna go into family next.

[Elisha] Sure, yeah. We'll stick with our marriage so far, 'cause we haven't gotten into Katie and I's growing up experience, but I look at the businesses that we started in that first month, or even the job that I was doing. I was a bartender at the time, and obviously, you're dealing with people. You're dealing with all sorts of people as a bartender, and it's so easy for me to look at that season of life as being, man, I was just there to get tips and to go home and to pay rent.

[Aaron] Right, meaningless waste of time, yeah.

[Elisha] Exactly.

[Aaron] However you feel about it.

[Elisha] Yeah, exactly. And of course, I was interacting with eternal beings every day, whether that was my coworkers or my boss and my managers, and then, of course, the patrons that were coming and consuming alcohol, or buying food at the restaurant. And so I look back and I think, man, the Lord was preparing me just to have empathy and sympathy for all types of people. And then I think of the businesses that we started in that first month, and it was funny, 'cause we really acquired a lot of skillsets because we were kind of hacks when it came to, one of those businesses was an online music academy because I'm a musician, and I wanted to be able to offer my music lessons in an online format, and neither Katie or I were video people or really recording-type people.

[Aaron] Yeah, but you guys did a good job. I remember you guys, it's still up, right?

[Elisha] It is still up.

[Katie] It is still up, yeah.

[Elisha] It's effective, and people still use it. But we just figured it out. We just decided to dive in and go for it, and that was good for me to get over my pride and to let go of that perfectionism mindset that so often keeps us from taking any action.

[Katie] And I think too it was good for us because, like, I remember when we first got married and you were a little more focused on your image then, and I was kind of like, I don't know, I was kind of a hack. I think I made you a little nervous, the way I threw around my image.

[Elisha] Let's just do it, let's just do it.

[Katie] Yeah, I was like, let's just do it, put it up. And I remember the first time I showed you a video that I was gonna post on Facebook. It was just a little parody I made, and Elisha's like, you cannot post that. Like, there is no way.

[Elisha] That's funny.

[Aaron] You're like, it's going up.

[Katie] Yeah. Well, through Voetberg Music Academy, we ended up doing a lot of those little commercials or little parody videos together, and I think that that really, I mean, we use that now.

[Elisha] Yep, absolutely.

[Katie] And it just really helped us swallow our pride I think and just go for things.

[Jennifer] Explain that a little bit more when you say we use that now.

[Katie] Well, we use that now on YouTube is probably one of the biggest ways that we use that in just family vlogging now that we're a family on YouTube as well. And I think that that is kind of what spawned the podcast, because if we hadn't gotten enough confidence to just document our lives, I don't think we would have ever taken that next step to podcasting.

[Aaron] That's good. So right now, what you're currently doing for the Lord, for your family, you can reach back into the inventory of those experiences and the inventory of those challenges, the trials and errors, and use that now and feel more confident in moving forward and, like you said, you wouldn't have been able to do it now if you didn't try it then or have those experiences. That's awesome.

[Jennifer] That is so cool. Okay, so we touched on that we were gonna get into your families a little bit. Katie, you mentioned that you're from a big family, so how do you guys see the unique ways that you were raised or maybe family type being used for what God has you doing today?

[Elisha] Yeah, so I was one of 10 children, all from the same mommy and daddy, and my parents are still married. They stayed married throughout our entire childhood, and they're in a great marriage.

[Aaron] Which is rare these days.

[Elisha] Yeah, and Katie is the oldest of 11 children, where it's same mommy and daddy for all the kiddos, and they're in a vibrant marriage right now. And so we were both homeschooled and brought up just with very Bible-centered homes. We read the Bible every single day as a family at the breakfast table, and sometimes at the dinner table, and I think that when I look at my history, not only was it an extremely enjoyable and relationship-rich time that I loved with my siblings and with my parents, and I know Katie feels the same way.

[Katie] Yes.

[Elisha] About her childhood, where we both just look back at them with really fond memories. I see that because my parents and Katie's parents, but I'll speak for myself right now, Because my parents become comfortable being unconventional and being counter-cultural, I grew up with this mindset that there are so many blessings in being different than the world.

[Aaron] I like that.

[Elisha] And I think my parents were the ones that were convicted by the Lord, and obviously, I was just along for the ride as a child and I was following in their leading, but they really exemplified to me that yes, a lot of times, initially, making those decisions to have many children or for the mom to stay home and be with the children and homeschool them or to take 'em out of the public and homeschool them, they can be challenging up front, and they can be challenging even for an extended amount of time. But the payoff is so worth it. So I think that growing up with a big family, in a big family and with parents that really trusted the Lord with their finances, with how many children they're going to have, it made me realize that I've adopted a lot of these mindsets not even knowing it. And so when I hear people that are my age say, well, we couldn't afford to have children now, I just think to myself, well, yeah you could. Where's that coming from? And I think that statements like that are so commonly accepted in our culture and in the world and they're never challenged, and I just don't believe that. I believe that you could probably find a way to afford to have children. I think that you can find a way to afford for the mother to stay home and not go to work and to even homeschool her children. And I think you can find a way to have a romantic and fun and flirtatious marriage, even while you have a bunch of kids, because I saw it exemplified to me.

[Aaron] Yeah, that's the magic right there.

[Elisha] Yeah, and so I'm not saying that I know how to do it; I just believe it can be done, and I think that Katie feels similarly.

[Katie] Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think sometimes, there is this mindset of, we have to do things how everyone else does them, and I think the way we grew up, like, I had some of the best years of my life living in a tent and a trailer, you know? Like, we did that for two years so my parents could save up a down payment for their house, and they had six kids at the time, but those are some of the best memories of my childhood. And I think sometimes, we have this misconceived perception that, oh, we need to earn this amount of money or we need to take our kids to Disneyland or we need to be able to provide these things for our kids, and I just don't have that perspective at all. Because of the way I was raised, I just have incredible relationships with my parents, and I have such amazing memories of growing up in unique situations. I guess my experience helps dispel some of those societal norms.

[Aaron] Yeah. So you, you have a lot of resources at your fingertips from the way you were raised, the versatility, the flexibility to make decisions that might be, hey, if we slow down here, we can speed up over here, or if we lessen what we're spending money on over here, we can have money to do something over here. You have those things at your fingertips to use now because of how, and you didn't even get to choose it.

[Elisha and Katie] Exactly.

[Aaron] Right? 'Cause that's kind of some of the things that we like to point out and we want our listeners to know, fortunately your family stories are powerful and just relationally rich, and then some people listening are gonna be like, well, I didn't have a family like that. My family wasn't that great. I didn't have strong Christian parents. But our point in this idea of taking inventory is that your story and your family doesn't give you something extra. It's what God has given you. And my family story's different, similar in some ways, but different. Jennifer's family story's different. And we we don't have your story to use in what God has for us to do ministry in, right?

[Elisha] That's right.

[Aaron] We use our story, the inventory that we have that God's given us. And so, that's kind of what's awesome about taking inventory of our lives, is our listeners can take inventory and be like, and I wanna encourage them that are listening not to throw out their story 'cause it's not your story.

[Elisha] That's right, absolutely.

[Aaron] Because they do have inventory, and God wants us to look at what we have and what he's given us and say, here you go, Lord.

[Elisha] That's right.

[Aaron] So here's my family and how I was raised, the good things and the bad things that happened to me as a child that I had no choice in, and how do you want me to use this for you, Lord? How do you want me to invest this? How do you wanna redeem this in my life? How do you wanna turn it into something for you, not for me, not for my sake. And so, maybe that gives someone listening right now peace and actually some courage in their own inventory.

[Jennifer] Yeah, and something I wanna highlight is just that how cool that God would have you guys here on the show and be able to share your story, 'cause I think it will be an encouragement to someone. 'Cause like you said, there's other ways of living that have been expressed and accepted in our culture, and your story's different, and the fact that you're here and you're sharing and whoever's listening could be encouraged by this, I love that.

[Aaron] Yeah, that story by itself right now, whether it has any other implications in your life, could potentially minister to someone today, which is amazing, right?

[Katie] Incredible.

[Aaron] And that's just one small way that God uses what we are, what we have that he's given to us, is just by saying yes to him, which is a theme that we mention throughout our whole book, is saying yes to God.

[Jennifer] Okay, so when we say yes to God, sometimes insecurities flare up, fears, things like that. So what are some of your biggest insecurities when it comes to using your gifts and talents for God?

[Elisha] You know, it's funny, 'cause I think that, even piggybacking on talking about our family, our unique story and our unique experiences can often be debilitating to us, and we can oftentimes find ourselves experiencing paralysis by analysis because we feel like we're from such a unique perspective, we can't relate with people. How are we gonna be able to connect and really encourage and exhort, whether that's fellow believers or minister to people that are not saved, and oftentimes, I mean, you can look at that from two ways. One, I feel extremely strong in my faith because of what my parents have done before me, but it also makes me realize it's not about me. It's not about Katie. It's about Jesus Christ. And I think of, is it II Peter chapter one, I think it's verses three and four that whereby are given unto you all things.

[Aaron] That pertain to life and godliness, yeah.

[Elisha] That pertain to life and godliness through the knowledge of him who's called you to glory and virtue. And that's not the prerequisite. The prerequisite for that is not coming from a Christian family. The prerequisite for that's not coming from the fourth generation or fifth generation of Bible-believing Christians; it's being in Christ.

[Aaron] It's being in Christ.

[Katie] That's good.

[Elisha] It's being a new creation in Christ. But the cool thing about that is that legacy is a real thing, and you have the ability in Christ to start a new legacy. We were just at my grandfather's funeral a week and a half ago, and it was really powerful to be there with his six children and then 42 grandchildren.

[Aaron] Wow, that's incredible.

[Elisha] And this is my mother's father, and to hear his story of being orphaned at 12 years old, heavily abused, on the street starving, an alcoholic father who ended up being a felon, never knowing his mother and never knowing the love of Christ in his home and making a decision to follow the Lord at 16 years of age, and the legacy that's come from that.

[Katie] It's incredible, and we get to benefit from that.

[Jennifer] That's powerful, wow.

[Elisha] Absolutely, yeah, really is powerful.

[Aaron] Wow, love that.

[Elisha] And so, to get back to your question, insecurities, I think it's so easy to feel inadequate, 'cause of course, apart from Christ, we are inadequate, but that's not where we're at anymore. So you need to accept the reality that hey, we're in Christ, we are a new creation in Christ, and we do have all things pertaining to life and godliness, and therefore, we are equipped. And so I think our youth can play a factor in that, not feeling old enough.

[Katie] I definitely think that plays in too. You feel like, well, I don't have enough experience, you know, life experience.

[Aaron] I know, you're not allowed to have a podcast about family yet until you've had a family for a super long time, right?

[Katie] Exactly, exactly.

[Elisha] Exactly, that's right.

[Katie] So I think we do wanna be thoughtful in that and share what we're experiencing more and what we're learning in the moment versus teaching, 'cause obviously, our oldest is two, you know what I'm saying? Elisha and I have been married for three years.

[Aaron] Right, there's things you actually don't know, and that's fine.

[Katie] Yes. So I think we want to be wise and cautious in that, but that doesn't mean that we can't encourage someone who's in a similar situation.

[Elisha] Yeah, and I think that even though there's so much that we have yet to learn and that we need to learn as life goes on, I know that Katie and I are really excited about family, and we're excited about growth, and I think that regardless of what stage of life you're in, if you're in Christ Jesus, you can be excited about the future.

[Aaron] Ooh, I like that.

[Elisha] I know that's where we're at right now.

[Aaron] So that sounds very similar to ours. When we launched Unveiled Wife and then Husband Revolution, how long were we married? Five years?

[Jennifer] Yeah.

[Aaron] And people even asked us, how long have you been married, like, older people, which rightfully so asking us, but I always tell people, we're not marriage experts. We've never proclaimed to be marriage experts. That would have been wrong of us to do. We're marriage storytellers.

[Jennifer] Yeah, storytellers. We're sharing our experience.

[Aaron] How are we failing, what's God teaching us, and again, going back to our book, one of the themes is like what you said, it's not us. It's not my experiences that is changing anyone's hearts or that has any value, other than Christ using it. And it's his story. It's his vocation, it's his ministry, not ours. It's his message, not ours. And so, as long as we're going back to the very thing that's changing us and transforming us, like, the gospel's the power of God unto salvation, right? The gospel and Christ in us through the Holy Spirit, that's what we're doing in this world. So we've had the same exact inadequacies and fears almost every time we launch anything. Launching this podcast, we were like, we don't know how to do podcasts. So I hope that encourages people listening to realize, wow, if God's calling me out, and not if, he is calling me out and wants me to follow him and wants me to use my life and the inventory of my life for his glory, they should be encouraged to know that even if they feel doubt and fear, that it's not them anyway. It's Christ doing it.

[Katie] Exactly.

[Elisha] Amen.

[Jennifer] I think it's important to note we have a real enemy who does not like us using the gift and things that God's given us to glorify God.

[Aaron] No way, yeah.

[Jennifer] And so there's gonna be opposition to that, and I think our flesh is sensitive to that. So sometimes it does come in the form of insecurities or fears and things that we're afraid of, but it's just temptation from the enemy to try and distract us.

[Katie] That's a great perspective.

[Aaron] Yeah, but I love that you guys use wisdom and thoughtfulness. I don't think we should test God and run into the middle of the street and say, save me!

[Katie] Definitely not.

[Aaron] We need to present, again, going back to the taking inventory, we don't just say like, oh, I'm gonna use this thing in my life this way. No, we say, okay, Lord, here's what I have. This is what you've given me, this abuse as a child, your grandpa story, or my godly upbringing, or this schooling I went to. Whatever it is, these gifts, these natural abilities that you've given me, here you go. What do you want? How do you wanna arrange this and turn it into a clay pot or a basketball hoop or whatever it is that he wants to mold it into.

[Jennifer] It's in humility and submission to his will and his purposes, which leads me to the next question. I'd love for you guys to share on this. What's the purpose of all the gifts and things that he gives to you, or to us? What is the purpose?

[Elisha] Yeah, I think big picture answer is it's for God's glory and for the furtherance of the gospel.

[Aaron] Yeah, we talked about this on Sunday, didn't we?

[Elisha] We did, that's right, a few days ago. And the way that plays out practically with each couple I think is obviously gonna look different, 'cause there are so many different skillsets and passions. And it's fun when you accept that big picture of, man, this is for God's purpose. It's for his glory. It's for the furtherance of his kingdom. Then it almost makes it like a fun game to figure out what your skillsets are and how you can be a part of the puzzle and the pie, realizing, wait, it's not about me. I don't have to get all the credit.

[Aaron] Yes, yes.

[Elisha] In fact, I shouldn't get all the credit. Like, how can I fit into the strategy that God has? And I think obviously, Katie and I are in the journey of figuring that out, and something that we both talk a lot about is being aware of the desires that are on our heart, and the Lord I think oftentimes places those on your heart, and then also being open to counsel. And you can speak to this, Katie, but I think that we've gone back and forth of caring too much about what people think of us, whether that's close friends and relatives, or even people that we don't know personally, but they have their opinion online of us and we'll let that influence the action we're taking. But then you can swing the pendulum and say, well, forget what people think. I'm just gonna do what I wanna do. And there's obviously, the Bible talks about there being safety in the counsel of many. And so I think finding this place where you say, man, the Lord's put something on my heart. I wanna have a community of counsel that I can go to and be humble before, knowing that they can totally see blind spots in my life, but then also realizing I don't wanna make decisions based off of the fear of man or what somebody might say to me.

[Aaron] Right.

[Jennifer] So good, and I find so much encouragement in several things that you guys have already shared throughout this episode, things like have fun along the way, enjoy the journey, and I love that, and I just wanted to take note for everyone listening, and for everyone who's gonna read the book Marriage after God, because sometimes, we just tell it like it is and encourage them to do. But I want them to hear this. It is a journey to be enjoyed, and it is something to have fun with yourselves when you're figuring it out. And so I just wanted to make a note, I love that you said that.

[Aaron] And the highlight in your story, just all the unique variables, we call it inventory, that God has equipped you guys with to do the unique thing that he's having you do, whatever that looks like. It could be a business. It could be just you working nine-to-five jobs, you just being a mom, but how you guys work together with your gifts and talents, we don't know, but you guys are trying things and chasing after what God wants for you and saying, okay, Lord, okay, that's not it? Okay, cool, and we'll take the experience from that. We're gonna use it for the thing that you do want us to do, and that it's this organic thing. 'Cause God knows the complete picture.

[Elisha] That's right.

[Katie] He does, yes.

[Aaron] It says many plans are in the man's heart, but it's the Lord that directs the steps. So we have these plans, we have these ideas, and we say, if the Lord wills it, and then we take a step, and you say, okay, that's the right step. Oh, no, that's the wrong step. Let's go to this step, let's do this way, and we let him direct us. And what's awesome is along the way, whether you have reached that goal, whatever that thing is, like you said, we always have this picture of what it might be, and we actually don't even know what it might be. We just think, it's usually probably compared to someone else's thing.

[Katie] Probably.

[Elisha] That's usually what it is.

[Aaron] But like even right now, just by you saying yes to him in all of these decisions, you're saying yes to him, and you begin to see him not only change you guys, make you guys more in love, stronger in your marriage, better parents, better brothers and sisters in Christ, but then also, you get used to grow the kingdom, just along the way. Whether you ever achieve that position or ministry or goal or whatever it looks like, it's happening along the way because you're saying yes to God, and I think that's amazing.

[Elisha] Yep.

[Aaron] So, do you feel like God is currently inviting you two to do anything specific, like, as you guys have been navigating with all these gifts and talents and resources?

[Katie] Yeah, well, I think that it's, like we mentioned, it has been a journey. I think it's so cool to see how the Lord has had us work together in little ways right off the bat, because there is no way we'd be able to even do the projects we're working on now if we hadn't taken those little steps, and I think of with Voetberg Music Academy, where I started recording a live show and we started getting into video, but I was so insecure talking in front of a camera in front of Elisha. I wasn't insecure about the camera.

[Aaron] Elisha, turn around please.

[Katie] Yes!

[Elisha] Exactly, she would tell me to leave.

[Katie] He'd have to leave. I had a crush on Elisha since I was eight years old, and I tried my entire life to impress him.

[Aaron] Oh, that's awesome. And now he's standing there in front of you.

[Katie] So then after we got married, I was like, I can't do this, and he was so good at it, and he was so good at communicating that, I don't know, there was just no way we were going to ever be able to talk to a camera together. And I think it was so cool, because I started my own YouTube now that I'm a mother before we did anything online, and it was cool how that just built my confidence, and that was a little step. It was just a hobby and a fun thing, but I do think the Lord was using it to build my confidence for us to be able to start doing video together and starting the vlog, and then starting, and I think it also gave you confidence too.

[Elisha] Yes.

[Katie] In the flip side, to see me just putting my life out there and people being encouraged by it, and that gave you the urge I think to have us jump into that together.

[Elisha] Absolutely.

[Katie] Which again led to the podcast, and I do think even though we are young and we are really newly married and a new family, we do have a desire to encourage family and encourage biblical rules and encourage seeking out what God's word says about family in a culture that is so starkly opposed to just the biblical worldview. And so, I think that's our goal, and that might look different throughout the years. The mediums we use to communicate might look different, but I think for both of us, that's what God has placed on our heart, to just encourage young families in our stage of life and newly married couples.

[Aaron] Yeah. So I just wanna encourage you guys, 'cause I know you both, we go to church together, we know most of your families. Whether you have direct experience with being parents of large families and have been doing for ages, or you have a two-year-old, right?

[Elisha] Yeah, that's right.

[Aaron] You have more experience in this than many people, because I grew up in a family of two. You grew up in a larger family, but not the way you guys did.

[Jennifer] Yeah.

[Aaron] And whether or not you are directly experiencing it, which you are, just with a much smaller size right now, you were drawing from that inventory of how you were raised and the experience that no one has had, rarely, 10 children, 11 children, parents that stayed together that not just stayed together but love each other, 'cause that's a big thing.

[Jennifer] Yeah, there's parents that stick it out.

[Aaron] Lots of people, they stayed together, but it wasn't very joyful, right?

[Elisha] Right, right.

[Aaron] And so that's what's awesome, is whether or not you feel completely qualified, you're more qualified than me to talk about it, just by the experience you had, now, as long as we stay humble and we submit to the Lord and say we're gonna do it your way, 'cause it's his story. So I just wanted to encourage you guys that. I think that's awesome you're starting. I think we need more people, more believers. That's the whole purpose of this book, is to say yes to God and say, God, here's what you've given me. How do you wanna use it?

[Elisha] Yes, amen.

[Jennifer] Okay, guys, this is the last question, and it's in your own words, what is a marriage after God?

[Elisha] In our own words, what is a marriage after God?

[Katie] Okay, you go first.

[Elisha] This isn't fair, 'cause we haven't read the book yet, guys.

[Aaron] This is exactly why we're asking.

[Elisha] I see. You know, God invented marriage, so I really do think that he gets to choose what the purpose of marriage is, what marriage is, what the end goal is, and something that Katie and I have really been contemplating over the last few months is that when you are joined in holy matrimony, you don't then start to try to become one; he makes you one. And so therefore, you start to act like one. And I think that so often, and this carries over into our faith. We think that when you are made new in Christ, from the day you're saved, you're a son of God.

[Aaron] Oh, I love that, yeah.

[Elisha] You are free from sin. You're able to live as a son of God. That doesn't mean that you don't need to learn some things, but you're learning to act how he's made you to be. I think it's the same thing with marriage. Oftentimes, we think, man, we need to become one, when in reality, you are one. He says, when two are joined together, they should no longer be called two, but they should be called one. And I think that once we've started to realize that more and more, we've realized that when I make decisions that aren't to the unity of our marriage, it hurts Katie, and similarly, if it's a negative decision, and if Katie makes a negative decision, it hurts me, whether you want it to or not. And I think that once we've started to have our minds transformed, you know, our minds are being transformed because we're renewing them and starting to believe what God says about who we are as Christians and then who we are as a married couple, we start to walk that out, we start to be one. And so once again, that's just one area that God has spoken to about marriage, saying hey, you are one. There's no more two, there's no more Elisha and Katie. You are one. I don't care how you feel. I don't care how she thinks or you think, you are one. So you better start learning how to act like it. Otherwise, it's gonna be a pretty miserable journey.

[Aaron] Ooh, I love that. That's awesome, yeah. So a marriage after God is one that recognizes they are one.

[Elisha] That's right.

[Aaron] Like, not becoming one, they are one. And so, I love that, because you're right. We're not becoming something. We are it the moment we said yes.

[Jennifer] Let's live it out.

[Aaron] Yeah, and so, either we're living it out or we're fighting against it.

[Elisha] Yes.

[Aaron] So that's awesome, amen. So, where can people find you at? What are some websites?

[Jennifer] 'Cause we know people got encouraged today. They got inspired. They wanna know more about you.

[Elisha] Sure, yeah, well, you already mentioned our podcast. It's Now That We're A Family, and then we've got our YouTube channel, which is also called nowthatwereafamily.

[Katie] Yep.

[Elisha] And Katie's on Instagram at @nowthatimamother.

[Jennifer] And she's super active there. She does live videos and interviews people.

[Aaron] And her photos are awesome.

[Katie] Yes, I was able to interview Jenn. That was awesome.

[Elisha] Yeah, that's right, exactly.

[Katie] Yeah, and are you?

[Elisha] I'm on Instagram.

[Aaron] Yeah, is yours @nowthatimafather?

[Elisha] @nowthatimafather.

[Katie] @nowthatimafather, yeah.

[Elisha] That's right. Yeah, so that's really where you can find us, and then our website's nowthatwereafamily.com.

[Aaron] So we just wanna encourage our listeners to go follow them and check them out. They have large families, large, awesome, godly families.

[Jennifer] And they're growing theirs.

[Aaron] And they're throwing theirs, and God's using them.

[Elisha] Right on.

[Jennifer] Okay, well, at the end of every episode, we just encourage everyone to join us in prayer. So Aaron, would you like to close us out in prayer?

[Aaron] Dear Lord, we thank you for the way you created us, and we thank you for your rich provision. Thank you for equipping us for the work you have for us to do. May our eyes be opened so we can see all the wonderful ways you have equipped us. Use us to encourage our spouse in the ways you have equipped them as well. We ask that you use every one of our marriages to bring you glory and to spread your gospel. We pray against fear and against the temptation to bury the gifts you have given to us. We ask that you remove our insecurities far from our hearts and help us to trust in you. We pray that we would walk in confidence as we chase boldly after you and as we pursue doing the very things you created us and created our marriages to do. In Jesus's name, amen.

[Jennifer] Amen.

[Elisha and Katie] Amen.

[Aaron] So thanks for joining us today, Katie and Elisha Voetberg. We love you guys, and we thank you for your story and your testimony.

[Elisha] Mm, thank you guys, seriously. Thank you for your ministry.

[Katie] Yes.

[Elisha] And, I mean, I don't know if you guys are gonna keep this on, but.

[Aaron] Oh, yeah.

[Elisha] But just as an example you guys have shown to us I've really been thinking about this the last couple of weeks, is your guys' consistency in your faith and in your marriage and in your child training. That's a huge blessing to me as a new father.

[Aaron] Thank you.

[Elisha] Then also just in being in consistent community, being in consistent fellowship with our local body here. I just know that you'll be there. I know that you're a phone all or a text away and that you will be there on Sunday, and I see you guys being so faithful in your Bible times as a family, and I just never want you guys to question not only the work that's taking place in your own family, but the encouragement that is to me as a believer and I'm sure just to the global body that watches that.

[Katie] Yes, you've been such a blessing to our family.

[Jennifer] Thank you for sharing that, that's awesome.

[Aaron] Thank you, well, yeah, I appreciate that.

[Elisha] Actually, I'm gonna say one more thing. Just 'cause I don't know how many people you're gonna have on your podcast that go to your local church, but being the father of a two-year-old boy, I've really started to think more and more about child training within the church service content. And we've been going to church for almost two and a half years now with you guys and seen how you guys have been able to really train your children to sit in church is so inspiring.

[Katie] Oh my goodness, yeah.

[Elisha] You guys, I know that most of you listeners probably are never gonna have an opportunity to sit in church with Aaron and Jen, but their kids are so well behaved. They sit on their laps, and the only reason that's so remarkable to me now is because I've got a two-year-old, and it feels like I'm in a jiu jitsu match throughout the entire church service with him.

[Katie] Yeah, we're trying to take notes from Aaron and Jen.

[Elisha] Yeah.

[Aaron] Well, thank you.

[Elisha] Yeah, no, it's true.

[Aaron] Yeah, thank you, I appreciate that.

[Jennifer] It is about consistency, I would say, just to encourage others out there. The children just, they're awesome and they're a blessing to us.

[Aaron] And it takes lots of hard work, and lots of prayer, and lots of screaming in pillows.

[Katie] There you go.

[Aaron] So, hey, thank you, that was really encouraging. We love you guys, and all you listening, we love you, and we thank you for joining us, and we pray that you will continue on in this journey with us as we have a few more episodes in this series. We'll see you next week. Did you enjoy today's show? If you did, it would mean the world to us if you could leave us a review on iTunes. Also, if you're interested, you can find many more encouraging stories and resources at marriageaftergod.com and let us help you cultivate an extraordinary marriage.

Order Your Copy Of Marriage After God Today!

https://Shop.marriageaftergod.com

Quote From Marriage After God Book

“You and your marriage are no accident! He created both you and your spouse intentionally, with a specific purpose in mind!”

Prayer

Dear Lord,

Thank you for the gift of marriage. Thank you for pouring your thoughtfulness into the way you designed marriage. Thank you for giving us a toolbelt that is unique, so that we can pursue and do all of the things you have for us to do. Please help us to understand everything that is in our toolbelt and show us how we can use it for your glory. We pray we would keep nothing back from you. We pray we would walk humbly with you and with each other. Use us to encourage one another in marriage and affirm the gifts we see in each other. We pray that we would see all of the little and big ways you are inviting us to join you to spread your gospel of love, salvation, and amazing grace. May the testimony of Jesus be the motivation in our hearts to do what we do, all for your glory!

In Jesus’ name, amen!

READ TRANSCRIPT

[Aaron] Hey, we're Aaron and Jennifer Smith with Marriage After God.

[Jennifer] Helping you cultivate an extraordinary marriage.

[Aaron] And today we're on part 10 of the Marriage After God series, and we're gonna be talking with Channing and Jessica Gillespie about the tool belt God has given us.

[Aaron] Welcome to the Marriage After God podcast, where we believe that marriage was meant for more than just happily ever after.

[Jennifer] I'm Jennifer, also known as Unveiled Wife.

[Aaron] And I'm Aaron, also known as Husband Revolution.

[Jennifer] We have been married for over a decade.

[Aaron] And so far, we have four young children.

[Jennifer] We have been doing marriage ministry online for over seven years through blogging and social media.

[Aaron] With the desire to inspire couples to keep God at the center of their marriage, encouraging them to walk in faith every day.

[Jennifer] We believe the Christian marriage should be an extraordinary one, full of life.

[Aaron] Love.

[Jennifer] And power.

[Aaron] That can only be found by chasing after God.

[Jennifer] Together.

[Aaron] Thank you for joining us on this journey as we chase boldly after God's will for our life together.

[Jennifer] This is Marriage After God. Thank you guys so much for joining us today. We just wanted to take a moment to ask everyone listening to leave a review. This is just a great way to get the message of this podcast out into the world. So, if you could support us in that way, that would be so awesome. It's so easy. All you have to do is scroll down to the bottom and leave a star rating review or comment review. Both really encourage Aaron and I, so thank you to everyone who's already done that.

[Aaron] Also, we'd like to invite everyone to pick up a copy of the Marriage After God book. It's our new book Jennifer and I wrote together, and it's the reason we're doing this series. It's the reason this podcast exists, so we'd love for you to get a copy of our new book, Marriage After God. Go to shop.marriageaftergod.com and grab a copy. Thank you everyone for listening. Today we have some Instagram friends of ours, Channing and Jessica Gillespie. Hey, welcome to the show, guys.

[Channing] Hey, Aaron, Jen. How you guys doing?

[Aaron] We're doing well.

[Jennifer] So good. Thank you for being here with us today. We're so excited to have you guys, and we just want you to take a moment and let the listeners know who you are. So maybe how long you guys have been married, how many children you have, and what you do for work.

[Channing] Awesome, yeah. Well, my name is Channing Gillespie. This is my wife Jessica.

[Jessica] Hi.

[Channing] We've been married two years, got married in 2016, October, and we're loving marriage.

[Aaron] That's good, right?

[Channing] We are high school sweethearts.

[Jennifer] Aw.

[Channing] So we've been together a long time. We just had four first baby.

[Jennifer] Woohoo!

[Jessica] She's so cute, she's the best.

[Aaron] What's her name?

[Channing] Her name is Hadley Kate. We had her in August of this year, so she is five months, and she is the only grandbaby right now and the only niece, and so she is spoiled rotten. But we've enjoyed these past five months as mom and dad. It's a new.

[Jessica] It's interesting.

[Channing] It's interesting, that's a good word.

[Aaron] Yeah, learning to be married and learning to be parents at the same time.

[Jessica] Yeah, for real.

[Channing] Yes. But yeah, we love it. I am actually on staff at the Church at Grace Park in White House, Tennessee. It's a little bit north of Nashville. I serve as the college pastor there. That's relatively new. We started that ministry back in June of last year, and been going strong with that, and I serve on the worship team at the church also, and I'm a songwriter and am seeking to write songs that point to hope amidst sorrow. That's really where I feel like the Lord's leading me to write songs right now. And so, just kind of seeking after the Lord and looking for new opportunities to do those things, both in ministry and in songwriting ministry and in worship. So that's a little bit about me. Jessica, you wanna go?

[Jessica] Yeah, I am a wife and a mom. I got to come home full-time and be with Haddie Kate when she was born in August.

[Aaron] Awesome.

[Jessica] So I'm really blessed to be able to do that and excited that the Lord provided that, a way for that to happen for me. But I also, I like to create and I love to write. So I started a blog that's called The Good Cottage Wife in 2016, the year we got married. Started that, and so I have that going, and also, I am a consultant with Rodan + Fields. So I help people change their skin and change their lives, and I love it. I wear a few different hats throughout the week, but I love each one, and I love getting to use those in creative ways.

[Aaron] Awesome.

[Jennifer] That's beautiful.

[Aaron] Yeah, I love the diversity in you guys' career paths and also how God's using you. And that's what we wanna talk about today, getting into this idea, but before we get to our main questions, we always start off question an icebreaker question. Are you guys ready for that?

[Channing and Jessica] Yes.

[Aaron] Okay, all right, here it goes, all right? This is gonna let people know a lot about you guys. What is the most awkward thing you've experienced as parents so far?

[Channing] I don't know. We were talking about that this morning a little bit too, of what's some crazy things. I don't know if there's been anything awkward per se yet, but I think you get initiated into parenthood when you get peed on a couple times, so.

[Aaron] There you go, yeah.

[Channing] I've had that happen too many times.

[Aaron] Yeah, I think it's a requirement.

[Jessica] I did have, we were at church one Sunday and I was holding her. She wasn't very old, not that she's very old now, but I was holding her, and my hand started getting wet, and I'm like, aw, man, she's peeing on me, and I go to lift her up, and she had pooped on me.

[Aaron] Oh, no, right in the middle of church.

[Jessica] And it was on my shirt a little bit. I'm trying to wash it off and stuff, and I had brought a change of clothes, but it was in the car instead of her diaper bag.

[Aaron] Oh, no.

[Jessica] And so, everybody was like, yeah, that'll be the last time you do that.

[Aaron] Yeah, poop's infinitely worse than pee.

[Jennifer] I was thinking of this question for you guys, and I was thinking about our own experiences, 'cause we have a couple kids.

[Aaron] We have four.

[Jennifer] Yeah, we have four.

[Aaron] We have two couple kids.

[Jennifer] But the first thing that comes to my mind was my kind of initiation to motherhood, and that was Elliott was born in November, and I remember it was Christmas Day, and we had stopped at a gas station, and I took him out to nurse him, and somehow, he managed to move beyond all of his clothes and only poop all over me. And I'm like, oh, no, Aaron, we have to stop at Target or something, 'cause we're on our way to my grandparents house.

[Aaron] Oh, we had no clothes.

[Jennifer] Nobody said you're supposed to have an extra change of clothes. And so everything was closed. I mean, everything was closed, 'cause it's Christmas Day. I ended up having to stop at a relative's house, a cousin that I had that was my same size and I asked her if I could borrow a pair of pants.

[Aaron] Oh, I remember this.

[Jennifer] Luckily it worked just fine.

[Aaron] So pro parent tip, bring a change of clothes for yourselves.

[Jennifer] For everyone.

[Aaron] Yeah.

[Jennifer] If someone is in the car with you, if you're traveling, just bring an extra change for everyone.

[Channing] Love it.

[Aaron] Yeah, a baby go bag, extra pants, shirts, underwear, socks.

[Jennifer] Okay, all right, we're gonna move on.

[Aaron] All right.

[Jennifer] Okay, so we're gonna jump in with a quote. Okay, we're gonna jump in with a quote from Marriage After God, from chapter 10, and it says, "You and your marriage are no accident. "He created both you and your spouse intentionally "with a specific purpose in mind," which, I love this quote, "and it's for every marriage and for everyone."

[Aaron] Yeah, the reason we wrote this book is because God's got a mission for all of his people, that we're all a part of his body, that his body's doing something in this world. So our encouragement is just to marriages to recognize that their marriage wasn't an accident, that God's got a plan for it, and he desires us to say yes to him and to offer up our tools and gifts and talents. And so today, we're gonna talk about tools and what that looks like in your life, but also, that everyone listening can ask themselves the same questions, that they can use this conversation we're having today with you guys as a launching pad or as a conversation starter for themselves to be like, oh, what has God given us, and how can we use what God's given us to serve him, to say yes to him? So I hope you're excited about that.

[Jessica] Yes.

[Aaron] Cool, so the first question we got for you guys is do you believe God brought you two together with a specific purpose in mind?

[Channing] Yeah, absolutely. For me specifically, I know even in my pursuit of Jessica, if that doesn't sound creepy. That's not supposed to sound that way. But in seeking the Lord with her, I had always prayed for one girl. Jessica's the only girl that I ever dated, and knowing that just in the back of my mind, I can hear my great-grandmother always saying to me, don't you ever bring a girl into my house that you don't intend on marrying.

[Aaron] That's awesome.

[Channing] And I really was drawn to that. I really asked the Lord, would you just send me one? And he sent me the best one.

[Aaron] Found a good man, Jessica.

[Channing] And with that, you know, even when we started dating in high school, I didn't really see the extent of the things that the Lord was gonna do with us. I'm reminded of Psalm 139, that he knew us individually before we were ever thought of, and that while he was knitting us together in the womb, that he had a plan and a purpose, individually, but also together. And we're just seeing even the beginning steps of that in the first two years of marriage. But we know that his plans and his purposes, though, we don't always see them in full, yet we know that they're good and that they're for our good. And so, just being able to walk in the truth that the Lord did bring me a good thing in my wife and knowing that together, whatever that is, whether that's just being a mom and dad to Hadley or if that's college pastors, in this season, we know that he has a purpose for us.

[Aaron] Love that.

[Channing] You have anything that you can think of?

[Jessica] Yeah, I think it's cool that a lot of times, you don't see things for yourself or you don't see things in yourself, and then all of the sudden, God has you in the middle of something, and you're like, never ever did I ever think that this is what it would look like, but it's much better than what you could have conjured up on your own.

[Aaron] Yeah.

[Jessica] Just an example of that is when we were dating, which, he'll probably go into this deeper a little later, but when we were dating, and we had been dating a while, but he came to me and he was like, I really feel like I'm called to the ministry vocationally, at least right now. I don't know what that looks like. But he said I don't know, I just wanna let you know. I don't know if that changes anything for you.

[Aaron] Warning.

[Jessica] And not that it was a bad thing or anything, but I was not expecting that. Never did I think, oh, yes, I'm gonna be a minister's wife, and my husband's gonna be on church staff and all that. I just had never thought that. And so when he said that, I was like, oh, my. I'm gonna have to think about this, not that I wouldn't want him to pursue what God wanted for him. But quickly God shut my mouth and cut off my mind of thoughts and fears that came up, just worries of what financially and all the things like that. But he said, don't stifle what I'm trying to do and what I can do through him and through you with him even though it's not something that you ever thought would be a part of your testimony and part of your life. So I think it's cool that, and I know that he did bring us together for such a time as this, for college ministry, for his music, for me to get to be a stay-at-home mom. All of that is part of his plan, and even though it wasn't something and we didn't get to this point that we're at right now the way that I in my feeble mind thought we would, it's been much more filled with joy and fulfilling than I ever thought it could be, and it's because it was God's plan and not ours.

[Jennifer] Man, I love the hopefulness that you guys are both sharing. Both of your perspectives are so full of hope, and I just hope that the people listening are encouraged by this, because what I'm hearing is it doesn't matter how long you've been married. It doesn't matter whether you've envisioned your life the way that it is or the way that it will be. We can all have hope in that and trust in what God is doing in our marriages, and I love that.

[Aaron] And I also love that you essentially said, you're like, I had a different idea or I didn't know what my idea would be, but I yielded to God's idea instead, and I think that's the key in this pursuit of okay, Lord, what do you want for our marriage, what do you have for it, what have you given these things to us for, is a yielding, is saying yes. Okay, Lord, yes. It doesn't look like how I think, it's not going how I would have manufactured this to go, but we want what you want, and that's what I hear from you guys, and that's awesome.

[Jennifer] So in Marriage After God, we talk about this idea of the marriage tool belt, and without giving away too much, because we want everyone to go read it, what do you guys think a marriage tool belt is, and what do you think of when you hear that term and what do you think is in your tool belt? And you guys haven't read the book yet, so this'll be interesting.

[Channing] Not yet, not yet.

[Jessica] As far as what I think is in our tool belt, definitely some things that are in there are advice that we can draw on from people that have been married much longer than us. I know that I received a ton of advice just from my mom, my grandmother, from women at church who have been married when we were engaged, and it's kind of funny, because sometimes, when you receive advice, it's like, yeah, okay. Well, that might not really apply to us, or I don't see that happening with us. And then you're quickly silenced when you enter that situation. It's kind of like, you don't know what you're getting into until you're in it, not that it's a bad thing or anything. It's just one of those things that, when you get there, you do have to draw on that advice. You're like, oh, they were right. Yeah, that would really help in this situation. So I would say advice, and then also, one thing that I've had to really try to hone in on and remember to do is to learn from our own experiences. Don't make the same mistake twice if you can go back and say, okay, this happened before. What did I do? Okay, that was probably not the right thing to say. That was the wrong moment. How can I make this not happen again, or how can we work through this better, if that makes sense.

[Aaron] Yeah, no, I love that.

[Jessica] And I would say advice, drawing from your own experiences and learning from them, and then humility and communication, and I know people say communication, yeah, I know that. But willingness to communicate, willingness to converse when there is an issue and just personally, I've had to work on that I know, because I'm the one that, when there's an issue or someone gets upset about something, I don't wanna talk about it right then. Like, leave me alone. Let me process this in my own mind. I don't wanna talk. And that's not the best approach. And so, I have had to learn, like, put down your pride, say you're sorry, and be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry. So that, as far as what's in my tool belt, those are some very specific things.

[Channing] Yeah, and I would add too of just growing up, thinking about the times that I saw my dad put his tool belt on, which, I don't own a tool belt. I need to probably get one.

[Aaron] You're a dad now and a husband. You're supposed to have a tool belt.

[Channing] I am. I have tools; I don't have a belt for them.

[Aaron] Yeah, I don't have one either, yeah.

[Channing] But I thought back to the times that I saw my dad put his tool belt on. It was when he was building something or he was repairing something. And I see that so much in marriage also of what I think the tool belt can be is whether it's building something together in your marriage, whether that's a ministry or just building a family, or there are gonna be times that you have to put the tool belt on because you're gonna have to repair some things in your marriage, and you're gonna have to address things. I think about it much like a house. If you don't attend to certain things in the house, after a while, those things are gonna need attention. And so, there might be times in marriage that Jess and I would have to address an area that would be an issue, or that has caused there to be some problem, but with that tool belt, I agree with Jess on a lot of that being from advice, and we've both been blessed to have parents that have stuck together through thick and thin and have really given us a good model of what marriage should look like and to persevere and endure. There's a lot of endurance in marriage. But with that in our tool belt too, to look at past experience, maybe even things that we've gleaned from our parents' marriages, things that we've learned from them over the years that help shape us in how we relate to one another, how we raise Hadley. I think there's a lot of things that can go into that belt. But those main things, I'm just really reminded of the building and the repairing idea.

[Aaron] Yeah, it's almost like you guys have read that book already, and you haven't. The rebuilding and the repairing, those analogies are some of the reasons we bring up this idea of a tool belt, is because the tools are meant for something. They're meant for building and repairing. And the tools that God has given us, and you guys actually mentioned some of them. You mentioned relationships; you said advice. Relationships are part of that tool belt. You talked about your past and your experiences and all of these things that God has given us, and sometimes, we don't recognize them as tools to be used or things that God's given us as gifts in our life, the things that have happened to us in the past, education that we've received and our relationships. These are all things that God's given us that he wants us to use and steward and call on and employ in our life for not only our family's sake, but also for the family of God. So I love that you use those analogies. We were just looking at each other shaking our heads like yeah, this is good.

[Jessica] That's awesome.

[Aaron] Yeah, and that's our encouragement to those listening, is then recognizing that they may not be able to relate to everything in your story, but what is relatable is that everyone has a tool belt. All the things that you guys just mentioned, the people listening may not have a family like yours that raised you with certain things, but they do have a family, and they were raised a certain way. And whether positive or negative, those are still tools that can be drawn upon, and that leads us into this next question. One of the tools in the tool belt that we discuss in our book is our testimony. And so, that's why I go to this idea of, whether it's negative or positive, all of that plays into the testimony that God's given us of what Jesus has done in our life. And so I wanna ask you guys, you know, what is your testimony? What has Jesus done in your life? How has God drawn you to himself? Let's just talk about that tool for a moment.

[Channing] Yeah well, I'll start. I grew up, my dad has been a pastor for pretty much my entire life, so I grew up in a ministry-style home. And so, I have the typical church Sunday school answer in the sense that we were always in church, and mom and dad always had us. When the doors were open, we were there. But for me, I got saved at an early age. My dad actually led me to Christ, just began asking questions when I was young. From that point, I had a good understanding of Jesus died for me and he wants me to come live with him in heaven. That was the extent of my faith as a child. But as I grew up, you begin to understand the depth of the gospel in that as you get older, you start to recognize you've really screwed some things up, and your sin just gets wider and wider, and the gap gets wider and wider. But then you begin to really appreciate and come to know the depth of the love that God has for his people and that he sent Jesus. And so, for me, it really became real to me when I got into high school and where I really began to get serious about my faith that it was more of a relationship when I got into high school with him, and for me, part of my testimony involves a call to the ministry and a running away from that call for a long time. Didn't wanna do ministry, didn't want that life. I grew up in it. Didn't want to be a pastor, but thought I had my own idea of what my life was gonna look, and pursued things that I thought were gonna bring me joy and happiness, and I can remember that Jessica shared a little bit about that conversation with me and her, but before that, I can remember my mom just point blank looking at me and saying, when are you gonna stop running? And a couple days after that, I was at a mens conference at a church in our community, and I can remember just sitting among thousands of other men, and it was like the Lord, it was just me and him in that room. And he said, I want you to stop running. I wanna use you in the ministry. And I accepted that call that night, not begrudgingly, but it was finally a moment in my heart and my life that I saw the picture of what the Lord wanted for my life. Now, he didn't say here's how this is gonna look. It was just a call to his ministry.

[Aaron] Yeah, he was looking for a yes.

[Channing] So yeah, it was just, okay. And so for me, that's been a big, big part of even my relationship with the Lord in the sense of learning to trust him and learning to depend on him and to submit to him and surrender to him. And so that call came when I was in my early years of college, and as soon as I made that call, all the anxieties of what I was gonna do with my life just started to fade away because I knew that he had already orchestrated and ordained me for that moment and that call. So for me, it's still growing. I count it as a relationship. I'm seeking to know him through his word and through his church and through just study of him. So I've seen my relationship with Jesus grow, even in the past two years of marriage, too, with the rigors and the good times and the bad times through marriage too, of learning how to trust him through it all. So that's what I would say, what about you?

[Jessica] Yeah, so I was saved at six years old at a VBS, and just something that everyone knew about me. I was very shy. I'm not an extrovert at all. I really have to make myself come out of my comfort zone, which I know we all have to, but there's probably not an ounce of extrovert in me, naturally. But so I was saved there, and actually, part of it was I had to, I didn't wanna go down by myself. There were plenty of kids going down, 'cause they asked if anybody wanted to come down and receive Jesus into their heart, and I wanted to, but I was too scared to go down by myself. And so I asked somebody to walk down with me. And that, I didn't realize it until later how symbolic that was gonna be in my testimony of who I was and who God created me to be and who he made me to be after I received him. But as far as an intimate relationship with him, I really didn't know what that looked like or what that meant. In sixth or seventh grade, I was at a retreat with our school, and I don't remember who spoke. I don't remember what they said. But I vividly remember being at the altar and thinking, okay, I don't want a hello God, goodbye God relationship with him. I want a deep relationship with him. I want my life to matter. And so that was the moment where I really became intentional about growing that relationship with him and nurturing it, but a big part of my testimony, like I said, was I was shy. I was not willing really to get out of my comfort zone, and then the Lord said to me, it's not about what you have to say or what you can do, but it's about what I'm gonna say through you and what I'm gonna do through you. And he kind of just said, and there's nothing else that I need to say to you. Like what you guys said, you just need to say yes. Just say yes to me, and just do what I ask you to do. It's scary, and sometimes, it's inconvenient. Actually, probably most of the time it's gonna be inconvenient, but you're not who you once were, so you don't need to look like that anymore, and you don't need to be scared. And like a lot of girls do, as I got older, I started struggling with self-esteem issues. I really started to try to hide the fact that I struggled with that, and in a sense, I didn't have an eating disorder, but I started to really abuse exercise in my life and then just didn't eat enough to compensate for that. So I guess you could say I had an eating disorder, but that really became a god in my life. I was riding my bike around the house one day trying to get all that exercise in and make myself feel worthy and feel beautiful, and I remember, it was almost like the Lord stopped me, like I couldn't pedal anymore. And he said, oh, girl, just give it up. Like, you don't need this. All you need is me. I'm more than enough for you. My grace is sufficient for you, and stop going after all these things that you think are gonna make you comfortable, all these things that you think are gonna make you feel satisfied, because they're not going to. So that's really what he's done in my life and a big part of my testimony is when we're saved, we're not who we once were, but I, at least looking back at myself, I know that I am nothing as far as what my life looked like, the things I said, the things I did and wouldn't do because I was too scared. I don't look the same, and I thank God for that.

[Aaron] Amen, wow.

[Jennifer] Yeah, that's so cool, guys. We really appreciate hearing your testimony of what he's done in your lives, and I mean, I can pull out things just from hearing you talk of how God's already using those testimonies in what you're doing today. But I wanna hear from you. So how would you say that God's using these testimonies for what he has you doing today?

[Channing] Well, for me, I know for this season, we've referenced it a couple times, of just working in college ministry. The Lord laid a deep desire in our hearts for 18to 25-year olds, because it's a very, very pivotal point in the lives of students, and I've been able to have some really good conversations with students who have come to crossroads in their lives of, do I pursue this, or do I pursue this? Do I listen to what friends say, or do I listen to what the Lord says? Do I listen to the desires that my mom and dad have for my life, or do I listen to the desire that I know God has for my life? For me, I can remember in that same age gap standing at that crossroad and multiple times coming to crossroads and running from what the Lord had desired and desired for my life. I wish I could go back and change some of those things. It would have saved a lot of heartbreak and a lot of striving in my life, but I know that it was all working for my good. So for me, to be able to share out of that on the ministry side with students to say, hey, you don't have to feel alone when you come to these decisions in your life that you just don't know what you're doing. I've seen the Lord be able to really cultivate some deeper relationships, some deeper trust in some of those relationships with some of the students that we work with. But then there's always still, I mean, Jesus has absolutely changed my life. So regardless of any of that, I desire for my life to be poured out for the gospel. And so, whatever that looks like, whether that's a conversation about where do I go to college next year or I'm really struggling through the pit of despair, Jesus is the answer. He's enough. And so, for me, that's always the bedrock of my testimony, is that Jesus is the answer. And so, where we may not always see him working right off the bat, we know that he is and that the story's not finished. And so, for me, I've seen the Lord open some really wide open doors for me to talk with college students, and even some in our church.

[Aaron] Yeah.

[Channing] That are not students, but the Lord just has opened doors for us to share. What about you?

[Jennifer] Well, real quick, I just wanna say, I think what's so powerful of what I heard in your testimony is that when you said yes to God, all those anxieties that you had about what you were supposed to be doing went away. And so now you get to share that testimony, that part of your story, with all of these college-aged kids who are asking these really big questions, and that stands out to me as such a powerful way to communicate that when you say yes to God, he's the one that takes care of the details, and we don't have to worry about 'em.

[Aaron] Yeah, and it doesn't mean things are gonna be easy. Like you said, you didn't get all of the answers right away, but he totally gave you peace, and you knew that you could trust him. So that's awesome, seeing that. Right there, you have a direct connection that you get to draw from that tool that God's given you, that testimony, that experience that you had with the Father to you pass onto these college students. And so, and I know you were about to ask Jessica, but Jessica, I have each question for you. This part of your testimony with self-image and just chasing after something to fulfill you and God getting ahold of your heart and saying, you don't need that. Has he given you opportunities to share with women who are struggling with the same things?

[Jessica] Yes, and that's what I was gonna talk about, is you know, it's not about us, and that's what I usually tell people who start confiding in me about issues in their life or struggles with their image, who they are, and being scared to come out and be who God's made them to be, is none of this is about us. And if it is about you, and that's all you can focus on is what you have to offer, well, we don't have anything to offer.

[Aaron] Yeah.

[Jessica] There's no good thing apart from Christ. And I do love, and I am so thankful, that he walked me through that and he helped me through it so that I can share with others, because it's really cool when you see God take someone who has no self-image in a positive way, they don't look at their self at all through the lens of Christ, which is really easy to fall into, but it's so cool to see someone like that get up on a stage and sing or get up and even just share their testimony, or do the thing that they're so scared to do, but they can do it with Christ and with God's help. So that has been so cool, and I do think a lot about the fact that if I wouldn't have said yes, and I don't say that to boast about myself, because on my own, I would not have said yes. I would still be sitting in the corner of my bedroom. I probably wouldn't be married to Channing. If I wouldn't have said yes to anything that I'm scared to say yes to, I wouldn't have been able to see other people do the same thing.

[Aaron] Yeah, that's just a beautiful example of God using the broken pieces of this world, us. We're in this flesh that is not yet redeemed, and he redeems our spirit fully and then walks us through the sanctification process and loves us as we're here in this world and then uses us when we say yes to him. I have a question though, one more for you, Jessica. Did you have opportunities to talk to women and share with women who were going through self-image things before God redeemed you from that, or did it start happening afterward?

[Jessica] It started happening afterward. I don't doubt that he probably gave me opportunities, even as a middle schooler, just to pour into people that are younger than me, because I really have always had a passion for that, especially after saying yes, I will say anything you want me to say. I will get up and sing on that stage, or I will sing my baby to sleep at night in the room when no one else sees me, and I'll do it with a joyful heart. But before I said yes, I was focused on myself. I was focused on my fears and what I thought I could do and what I thought I knew I couldn't do. And so, I didn't really know. I might have had the opportunity before, but I didn't take it, and I didn't reap the joy that could have come from them.

[Aaron] This is so great. Don't know Jennifer if you're being.

[Jennifer] I'm to encouraged.

[Aaron] Encouraged by this, but yeah, this is exactly what our hope for this conversation was, to show the reality of, it doesn't matter who you are. When you say yes to God, when you accept and follow Jesus as Lord, and you say, okay, Lord, here I am, like you said, we have nothing apart from Christ, and then he gives us the things he wants us to use. The master gives the servants the talents, you know? And you guys have said yes in your life, and I love that.

[Jennifer] Yeah, what I think is so beautiful about you guys sharing your testimony and this story today is that, well, two things. The first thing is that how beautiful it is that all of our marriages are unique. So you guys are on our episode today and you're sharing your unique marriage story, your unique testimonies and how God is using those testimonies today to further his kingdom and build his kingdom, and I just want everyone listening to know that it is beautiful that every marriage is unique. And I know we shared about that in the last episode, but I just wanna reiterate that all of us have been given a tool belt, and it's an exciting process to be able to sift through it and see what God has given us and then encourage our spouse in using exactly what he's given us. And it sounds like that's what you guys are doing. You have these very specific testimonies, and they're powerful, and God's using them in specifically college ministry and other ways. But oh, I just love that. And then the other thing is that we know we can trust God. And so, when we're standing there wondering what it is we're supposed to be doing or asking those big questions, we know we can trust him. When we hear stories like this, it reaffirms that in our hearts. And so I just really appreciate you guys' vulnerability in just sharing this with us today.

[Aaron] So, you know, we're gonna be coming to a close soon, and we were gonna ask you a question about have you had opportunities to use your testimony, and what's awesome is you just now shared your testimony with everything listening. So yes, yes, God randomly gives you opportunities to do that, and you guys probably pursue those, and we just love that. And you already answered that question in talking about who you're sharing it with. But we wanna end off with one question we've been asking everyone on this series, and it's in your own words, what is a marriage after God?

[Channing] I immediately thought of David, of David was a man after God's own heart, and so of applying that same idea, a marriage after God is one that in all things puts God first, that desires to grow close to him, to look like him. I mean, I see marriage as a picture of Christ and his church, 'cause that's what it is. We are his bride, and the way that he has laid down his life for the church and the way that he is also coming back for, oh, yes, that's so good, I love it, he's coming back for his bride one day, that he hasn't left us in our sin and in the brokenness, but that he's coming victoriously back for us. I see a marriage after God as one that's a vertical and a horizontal component of that, where vertically, we're trying to become more like Jesus day after day and the sanctification of becoming him, but then horizontally, loving each other like the way that Christ loves his church. And so, for me, there's a little bit of that too for me. I was an athlete in high school and thinking about marriage after God makes me think of, we're running after him.

[Aaron] Yeah, I love that.

[Channing] There's this, I won't stop until I get you kind of idea.

[Jennifer] That's great imagery.

[Aaron] Yes, yeah.

[Channing] Not creepy.

[Aaron] No creepy references here, yeah.

[Channing] Right, but seriously, for Jessica and for myself, what I desire is for a world to look at our marriage and say, man, they belong to somebody, you know?

[Aaron] Yes.

[Channing] That there's something different about them, and the only answer to that is Jesus. What about you?

[Jessica] I would say a marriage after God, I saw this online the other day, so it's not original to me, but if you think about a triangle, I wish it was, but if you think about a triangle and you have the husband and wife on the bottom two corners and God's at the top corner, and it said if the husband and wife are constantly trying to get closer to God and moving up, you think about it as in moving up in the triangle, they are getting closer to each other. So the key to growing your marriage is growing are relationship with God. The closer you get to him, the closer you get to each other, and I don't remember who said it. It was Channing that said it, but I don't remember how it was a quote by: "Marriage is not to make us happy. "Marriage is to grow us closer to Christ "and to make us holy." I think a marriage after God is making every area in your life, especially your marriage, not about yourself, and make it point to Jesus.

[Aaron] Amen, agreed.

[Jennifer] So awesome, thank you guys so much. Yeah, agreed, agreed, agreed, and that quote you referenced was from Gary Thomas's Sacred Marriage book, and he's just such an excellent resource for marriages. So I appreciate you sharing that. Thank you guys so much for being on the show with us today. We really appreciate, again, your vulnerability and in sharing your testimony and encouraging people who are listening to consider the uniqueness of their marriage, the uniqueness of their testimonies, and how they can be using them today, 'cause of course the Lord's inviting us to use what he's given us for his glory. So, I just wanna thank you guys for being with us today.

[Aaron] Yeah, and you guys are a marriage after God, and we appreciate that.

[Channing] Thank y'all so much.

[Jessica] Thank you, thank you so much.

[Aaron] Yeah, you're welcome. So what we're gonna do is we're gonna close in prayer. So would you join us, and Jennifer, would you?

[Jennifer] Dear Lord, thank you for the gift of marriage. Thank you for pouring your thoughtfulness into the way you designed marriage. Thank you for giving us a tool belt that is unique so that we can pursue and do all of the things you have for us to do. Please help us to understand everything that is in our tool belt and show us how we can use it for your glory. We pray we would keep nothing back from you. We pray we would walk humbly with you and with each other. Use us to encourage one another in marriage and affirm the gifts we see in each other. May we also have the courage to confront and repent of any sin in our lives. We pray that we would see all of the little and big ways you are inviting us to join you to spread your gospel of love, salvation, and amazing grace. May the testimony of Jesus be the motivation in our hearts to do what we do, all for your glory. In Jesus's name, amen.

[Aaron] Amen.

[Chandler and Jessica] Amen.

[Aaron] All right, so we just wanna thank everyone for listening to the 10th episode in the series For A Marriage After God. We wanna encourage you to go get a copy of our book please. We wrote it for you. All these interviews we've compiled to encourage you and your marriage just to know that God has a plan for you and has call for your life, and we just wanna invite you to keep tuned in, because we have six more episodes in this series. So we'll see you next week. Did you enjoy today's show? If you did, it would mean the world to us if you could leave us a review on iTunes. Also, if you're interested, you can find many more encouraging stories and resources at marriageaftergod.com and let us help you cultivate an extraordinary marriage.

In this episode we had the privilege to interview our good friends, Jeremy and Audrey Roloff well known from the beloved TV show Little People, Big World and now from their podcast Behind The Scenes. The roloffs are very familiar with recognizing how God can use each of our unique and individual stories for His purposes and that is exactly what we explore in this episode. You don't have to be us and you don't have to be them to be used by God. God desire to use you and your unique and individual giftings, talents, stories, and resources for His glory and to further his Kingdom. We pray you are blessed by today's discussion and are inspired to say yes to God with what you have been given.

Please grab a copy of their newest book A Love Letter Life. -> https://amzn.to/2IqA26H

OTHER WAYS TO CONNECT WITH THE ROLOFFs

https://www.theroloffs.com/

https://aloveletterlife.com/

Jeremy & Audrey's Endorsement for Marriage After God Book

"In these pages, Aaron and Jen have fantastically conveyed the purpose of the mission and meaning of marriage. A powerful read that left us both inspired and awed that we get to participate in something so powerful –marriage –designed and created by a mighty God for an amazing adventure. No doubt this will become a must-read for decades to come!"

QUOTE FROM CHAPTER 9 OF MARRIAGE AFTER GOD BOOK

“Your marriage is not our marriage. You and your spouse are not us. You don’t have our experiences, talents, education, or upbringing. The beauty of the body of Christ is that each and every part is unique, your marriage included, and God will use your uniqueness for His purposes, if you let Him. ”

PRAYER

Dear Lord,

Thank you for making us unique. Thank you for making our marriage unique. We pray we would recognize our differences and the unique qualities you have given to us and how they can be used to do the ministry you have for us to do. Lord, help us confidently embrace the uniqueness in our marriage. Help us to allow you to use everything you have given to us and how you made us to glorify your name. We pray we would not covet what other believers have or what other believers do for your kingdom, but rather we ask you to show us what you desire us to do for you and do it joyfully. May we celebrate the uniqueness in your body and encourage each other. Lord, use our unique marriage to point people to you.

In Jesus’ name, amen!

ABOUT A LOVE LETTER LIFE BOOK

Whenever you are at in your love story, we believe this book will help you to live your own committed, courageous, creative, and continuous love story. We hope our story, with all its imperfections, will awaken your desire to pursue a love that reflects the thoughtfulness, intention, patience, and beauty of a love letter

Order our new book today and join the marriage after God movement. https://marriageaftergod.com

Here is a quote from the Marriage After God book.

"Just as God has led us on a journey with specific work to do, your marriage is also on a journey toward the extraordinary work God has prepared for only the two of you to do."

This chapter included part of our story and so today we want to highlight a piece of our story. In the second year of our marriage when things were really tough, we moved to Merritt Island Florida, where we met Nathan and Daisy Walter...except when we met them they were dating and then got engaged.

Dear Lord,

Thank you for your creativity in how you made each and every one of us. Lord, you put so much thought and care into how you made us. Thank you for the resources you have given to our marriage and the unique talents and gifts that you have blessed us with. We pray that as Christian husbands and wives, we would not only desire to use all of the tools we have, but also pursue what you want us to do with them. We pray you would show us how you would like us to invest what we have so that we can grow your kingdom in this world. help us to encourage each other and affirm each other in how we use the gifts talents experiences testimony and resources that you’ve given to us. we pray that your name would be magnified as we remain obedient to all that you’ve called us to do. we pray that our marriages would represent and reflect your divine love story. May we be ambassadors of your love to this hurting world. inspire us to be creative in the ways that we share about you and share about the faith we have in you. thank you for the gift of life and for salvation.

In Jesus’ name, amen!

READ TRANSCRIPT

[Aaron] Hey we're Aaron and Jennifer Smith with Marriage After God.

[Jennifer] Helping you cultivate an extraordinary marriage.

[Aaron] And today we're in part eight of the Marriage after God series, and we're gonna be talking with Nathan and Daisy Walter about the impact we have in this world. Welcome to the Marriage after God podcast, where we believe that marriage was meant for more than just happily ever after.

[Jennifer] I'm Jennifer, also known as Unveiled Wife.

[Aaron] And I'm Aaron, also known as Husband Revolution.

[Jennifer] We have been married for over a decade.

[Aaron] And so far we have four young children.

[Jennifer] We have been doing marriage ministry online for over seven years through blogging and social media.

[Aaron] With the desire to inspire couples to keep God at the center of their marriage. Encouraging them to walk in faith every day.

[Jennifer] We believe that Christian marriage should be an extraordinary one, full of life.

[Aaron] Love.

[Jennifer] And power.

[Aaron] That can only be found by chasing after God.

[Jennifer] Together.

[Aaron] Thank you for joining us on this journey as we chase boldly after God's will for our life together.

[Jennifer] This is Marriage After God.

[Jennifer] So we just want to first of all, just say thank you for everyone who's been following along in this series. We hope that it's been inspiring you and impacting your lives.

[Aaron] You know, we're at the halfway point which is exciting.

Yeah, yeah. Super awesome, but before we move on in this episode today, we just want to ask you guys to leave a review, this is just one way that you guys can help support the podcast by spreading the podcast. When you leave a review, it helps other people find the Marriage After God podcast. And it's super simple, all you have to do is scroll to the bottom of the app, leave a star rating review or a comment review, and Aaron and I really appreciate it.

[Aaron] And also the reason we're doing this podcast in the first place, the entire podcast, and this series, this 16-part series, is because we wrote a book called Marriage After God, and you can get it today, and we'd love for you to get that, that's one of the best ways you can support this podcast. And also to support your marriage and to support the marriages around you, and just go to shop.marriageafterGod.com, and pick up a copy of our new book. We wrote this book for you guys.

[Jennifer] So today, we have good friends of ours, Nathan and Daisy Walter, hi guys.

Hey how are you doing?

Hello.

[Jennifer] Thanks for being with us today.

[Aaron] We're so excited to have you guys on.

[Nathan] We're excited to be here.

[Daisy] It's good to be here.

[Aaron] Awesome, so why don't you, cause a lot of people know us and our online presence, but they don't know all the people we know.

[Jennifer] Yeah.

[Aaron] And so that's one of the reasons why we wanted to do all these interviews, is to let people know all the people that have helped shape who we are today, that God used in our lives, and you guys are one of those couples in our life. We've known you guys for a very long time. Why don't you let everyone that's listening know who you are, your children, what you guys do, and how we know you?

[Nathan] Right, well my name is Nathan Walter, and this is my wife.

[Daisy] Daisy.

[Nathan] And we have three kids It took me a second. Flynn, who's five, Aurora who is

[Nathan And Daisy] Two.

[Daisy] And Ivy's nine months.

[Nathan] Nine months goes by fast. We are youth pastors at a church in Florida, and we also have a worship band called the Quiet Science. So, between all that, we stay pretty busy.

[Daisy] Yeah, stay pretty busy.

[Aaron] With half of that, you're busy.

[Daisy] Yeah, and just the kids alone.

[Aaron] Yeah.

[Jennifer] So if anyone's familiar with the book launch surrounding the Unveiled Wife and our marriage story there, Daisy and Nathan are the ones that wrote that worship song that we wanted to launch with that book, called "The Unveiled" and it's available on YouTube if you guys want to check it out.

[Aaron] It actually still gets tons of views.

[Jennifer] I love that song.

[Aaron] Yeah, people say it's like their favorite worship song.

[Jennifer] You guys are so talented. I remember we had already been hanging out in our friendship for quite awhile, and we were hanging out at Daisy's parent's house when you guys had some instruments out, and you started kinda just fiddling around with them, and we didn't realize that you guys were like--

[Aaron] I know we had no clue you were--

[Jennifer] Really creative, you had a band.

[Aaron] It was like months of knowing you guys. And you guys are like, you guys start playing and singing in the living room, we're like, what's happening right now?

[Nathan] Awkward.

[Daisy] I'm like, oh my God, why did we do that?

[Aaron] Well, I think you guys were like practicing or something,

[Daisy] Probably.

[Aaron] Maybe you were going to be giving a show and we had no clue that you guys were part of a band. Anyways, we, go ahead.

[Daisy] Oh, no, it's just like, oh by the way, we have a show.

[Aaron] Yeah. But, how long has it been, we've known them? We met them in pretty much the first year that we were married, so 12 years now we've known you guys.

[Daisy] Yeah.

[Aaron] And you guys weren't married yet back then, you guys were dating when we met you.

[Nathan] No.

[Aaron] And then we got to go to your wedding. And even though we live on literally opposites of the country, probably the farthest distance we can be from each other. We still tend to keep in touch.

[Daisy] Pick up where we left off.

[Aaron] And pick up where we left off. That's one of the things we just love about you guys, is you guys are always changing in the right direction, you're always growing closer to God. But you're always the same to us. Which is cool cause we're growing with you, so. Why don't we get into the icebreaker question?

[Jennifer] Yeah, so, this is an interesting one. If you could have dinner with anyone from the Bible who would it be and why? And it can't be Jesus. Cause we know that's a given.

[Daisy] Um, I would say Isaiah. I know that's probably, I don't know. It's my favorite book and I just think, I don't know, he just seems like a wise old soul. And that's like, I don't know, that's my, thing. In every cast, every movie, my favorite character is the wise character.

Like Gandalf.

Like, I need wisdom, help me out! But I just--

[Jennifer] It makes for great conversation.

[Daisy] It does! I just, I don't know, I feel like, whenever something amazing hits me, I'm always like, "Oh my gosh, of course, "I'm reading Isaiah." Not that the rest of the Bible isn't amazing, but I just, I love Isaiah, I would love to meet him. Well, I will meet him, but.

[Nathan] Yeah, we will meet him.

[Daisy] We will.

[Jennifer] Okay, what about you, Nathan?

[Nathan] You know, my first answer was gonna be Paul, but I feel like that's really, um, just because he wrote a lot of letters about the church, and I would want to get his opinion about the church today and get all fired up with him. But I also, I don't know, I didn't want to be like, super, well never mind I'm not gonna do two. I was just gonna do two. I guess, just I was gonna say Paul or an Old Testament prophet, cause the thing I like about the Old Testament prophets or that I respect, is that they were alone. They were like completely alone declaring the Word of the Lord, and I know Paul was, it just seems like they were, there were so many people on Mission, you know, I just respect the Old Testament prophets having to do it by themselves with nothing but the Word of the Lord, and it's like, how did you guys do it? How did you stay strong?

[Aaron] Especially back then, when there was no church yet, it was God telling these men, like, "Hey, go speak this." And they're like, "Wait, they're gonna kill me "if I do that."

[Daisy] Yeah, yeah.

[Nathan] And my Old Testament prophet would have been Elijah, so. I know I didn't say it, but.

[Aaron] Oh there you go.

[Jennifer] So you picked two.

[Daisy] Yeah he did.

[Aaron] Elijah did have some pretty rad things he did.

[Daisy] Yeah.

[Jennifer] Great, well thanks for playing that little game with us. It always helps to let other people know a little bit more about who you guys are.

[Nathan] And you can catch people who don't know the Bible.

Here's a quote-I know, they're like, what person is that? So, here's a quote from chapter eight of our book. And then we'll get into the topic. "Just as God has led us on a journey "with specific work to do, "your marriage is also on a journey "toward the extraordinary work "God has prepared for only the two of you to do." So the idea of this chapter is just talking about the uniqueness of how God created all of our marriages and how He's given us unique talents and gifts and resources. And the specific purpose of this chapter is to show kind of that journey that Jennifer and I have been on and how He's uniquely gifted us, and all the different experiences, especially our relationship with you. You know, not everyone has this kind of relationship with you, and not everyone has the kind of relationships, everyone has different ones, and different resources and different experiences. And then toward the end of it we explain, but the point is, this is our marriage. It's not yours. And you, you and Daisy, have your own story, your own unique talents, gifts, resources, your own tool belt is what we call it. And God desires all of us, each one of us, to use what He's given us for His purposes, for His glory. And that we don't sit back and say, "Well, since I don't have Aaron and Jennifer's marriage "and their experiences and their education, "and their talents, then I must not be usable." Or, "Since I don't have this person over here "and what they've gone through and what they have, "I'm not usable." The truth is, that God's given us all--

[Jennifer] We're all one body.

[Aaron] Yeah, unique gifts, talents, resources, for the sake of the body, and for what the body's doing. What God's doing in this world. So, that's the purpose of this chapter, but today we get to chat with you guys to talk about the influence that you guys had in our story, and just to talk about where you guys are at and how we met, and so we're just gonna have some fun with that, and we hope that and pray that everyone listening gets just blessed by this conversation, and gets to also think about what God's doing through their marriage and in their marriage right now.

[Jennifer] So one of the things that we mentioned that's a part of our tool belt is relationships, and so we thought it would be cool to kind of dive into our relationship, with you guys, and just kind of go back to the beginning, because we met you guys at a time when, that first year of marriage was really difficult for us. And we didn't have a lot of relationships. But we were going to the same church, and you guys and your families loved on us, in a time that we really, really needed it. That time was impactful for us because even though we were enduring hardship, in our marriage, and we weren't really talking about it, we still were able to find ways to experience friendship together, with each other, and with you guys, and so I wanted to highlight that and how that impact is still impacting us in our relationships today. And has really impacted the ministry that everyone gets to benefit from this Marriage After God ministry. So Daisy and Nathan, what are some ways that we have had fun together?

[Nathan] Honestly, when I was thinking about that, there's so many things that I think we did and they were all pretty mundane. And I think--

[Aaron] Yeah, yeah.

[Nathan] I think that's what makes good friendships, is like, so many of our memories, I think, are sitting around on the back porch, playing some game Aaron had us play. Made up. Like, is it... And we were able to have fun no matter what we did, and I think that's kind of, not the key to good friendship, but I think it's evidence of good friendship, because there's so many people you're around where you gotta fill the silence, or you feel like you're entertaining, or you... And I think from the very beginning, we were always able to just, no matter what we were doing, we were having fun. So--

[Aaron] I like that. I think what you just said right there, is evidence of good, close relationship is not feeling like it's a one-sided thing. Cause that's essentially what entertaining is, you're entertaining a guest versus you're spending time with a, with a friend.

Just being in the presence. Yeah.

Being in the presence of. Daisy, what are some of the things that you remember that you guys, that we had fun with?

[Daisy] I remember going to, Charles and Casey's wedding, and you guys like, doing the lift, remember when you were dancing?

[Aaron] The lift?

[Daisy] Yeah!

The Dirty Dancing lift?

And you're like, "Come on, Jen, run toward me, run toward me!" She was like, "I don't want to!" And you made her do it.

[Aaron] I don't remember this at all!

[Jennifer] I don't remember it working very well.

[Nathan] It was the Dirty Dancing lift.

[Daisy] It was the Dirty Dancing lift, and remember their wedding was like, on the beach, that was the most fun wedding. And toward the end you're like, "Come on, come on, run, run toward me!" You did it in front of everybody on the dance floor.

[Jennifer] How embarrassing.

[Aaron] I forgot how weird we are.

Yeah, and for everyone--

Of course, everyone was cheering.

[Nathan] Yeah, I think all the girls were jealous, were like, "Why don't you do that with me?" That's so romantic of you!

[Jennifer] What's funny about this story is that, Aaron and I, we just don't like dancing, like it's a hard thing for us. So that's really funny.

[Aaron] I think we did most of the dancing around Daisy and Nathan. You guys drew the dancing out of us. So when I think about our relationship, I remember, we didn't initiate it. I don't remember us going to you guys, I actually remember us feeling pretty, not lonely, but just kind of there, at the church at the time. We just kind of, working with that mission organization.

[Jennifer] Yeah.

[Aaron] And I remember just, we would go on Sundays, and we had some people we knew and we'd say hi, and just did the normal Sunday thing. But I remember one Sunday, we were leaving church and walking out to the parking lot, and a car just pulls up to us. And invites us to lunch. And it's your mom and dad, Daisy. They're just like, "Hey you guys wanna go to lunch with us?"

[Jennifer] I remember we went to Red Lobster, and back then Aaron and I could not afford that, and it was like, heaven.

[Aaron] It was such a treat. That you guys just did that. Do you remember, were you a part of that, like did you know us before that moment? And you know, your parents driving up and inviting us, what was happening in that kind of season?

[Nathan] I don't know, I think, we were kind of the same way. Well, Daisy had gone to that church for a long time, but I think, um, we didn't have any friends that were couples. And I think that Daisy's parents were really like, "Hey there's this couple that we're gonna invite to lunch." And we're pretty shy and we don't do that kind of stuff, so it was almost like a, like they set us up

Like you're matchmaking us.

on a date or something.

[Aaron] It was a blind double date, I love that.

[Jennifer] It worked.

[Nathan] Yeah, and I just remember from that moment on, we hung out every day that we could.

[Daisy] Yeah, like every day. I feel like we hung out every single day.

[Jennifer] I remember, we went to lunch that day, and then we went back to your parents' house, and we stayed there until like midnight, I think.

[Daisy] Yeah, I remember that.

[Jennifer] It was an all day thing.

[Aaron] Didn't we go swimming? We swam a lot.

A lot.

[Daisy] Yeah, you always wanted them to turn on the jacuzzi.

What I love about that. Yeah, the hot tub, yeah.

[Nathan] That was Daisy's original answer, when it was like, "What did we do a lot?" Daisy was gonna be like, "The hot tub, "I think we were in the hot tub."

[Daisy] Aaron was always like, "So, jacuzzi anybody?" And I'm like, "Uh, sure."

[Aaron] It was, it was really great. And I think, so there's a couple things that were happening, cause Jennifer and I, and you guys didn't realize this, your parents didn't even know, you know, Jennifer and I were going through spiritual and just emotional turmoil in our marriage. But I think a couple things happened, we, I want to use the word used, we used our relationship with you guys to help us cope with where we were at. Which is, I think, a thing that we're called to do, we're supposed to lean on each other in the body of Christ, and rely on those relationships for strength. You know, when the Bible tells us to bear one another's burdens, whether you guys knew it or not, you guys were bearing burdens with us, that we would come and just, those many nights, many, many nights, you're right cause we spent, probably couple, three, four, five days a week with you guys sometimes.

[Jennifer] Thank you for being so willing--

[Aaron] Yeah, thank you for being there with us.

To build that friendship.

[Nathan] It was fun.

[Daisy] Oh, we were having so much fun.

[Aaron] Yeah, and just having fun with you guys, and chatting with you guys, and I remember we had lots of spiritual conversations, but, like you said, even the mundane things were, it was safety for us. And it kept us from spiraling into oblivion in our marriage, alone, because we had people with us. It made the dark times, the hard times for us bearable. And again, you guys didn't even really know, that was our fault for not really sharing with you guys where we were at. But what I love is that, you were saying that you guys didn't have those close relationships either, and how the Lord orchestrates like, "Hey, here's two of my, two couples, four of my children, "that I'm gonna bring together and use them "in each others' lives," whether we know it or not. You know, just because we're walking as Christians with each other. Um, so, why is friendship in marriage so important? Like, I'm bringing all this stuff up but I'm trying, I want to draw this out for the people listening. Okay, so why are friendships in marriage so important, first, and secondly, why was it so important to you guys?

[Nathan] I think that I value, our friendship more now that I don't get to see you guys all that often. Because, I think the older you get the more you realize how rare it is, that you have friendships with other couples that, both of them have a heart after God and a heart for you. And it's encouraging to know that, those relationships can exist, and that we can perhaps have other couple friends like that. I mean, we only have like two or three couple friends like that, that are all throughout the United States. But it's kind of nice to know, these are our brothers and sisters in Christ, and God has them elsewhere right now, but we're all on Mission. And even though it feels like we're apart, we're on Mission together for the same thing, for the same Kingdom. And even though we don't get to see them a lot now, we'll get to see them later, when the mission is complete. And I think that when things get rough, especially in terms of friendships with other couples, we always have that reminder of like, we have another, there are other friendships out there that we will get to see again, and they go through these same struggles as we are on Mission for the Kingdom of God, you know? God just has us different places on Mission, and it's nice to know that other people, there are others out there that are like you, that are on it. It's just encouraging, even, even without getting encouragement from people talking to you, just to know that you're out there doing it is, I don't know, it just gives you hope and encouragement.

[Aaron] So having that, just the experience that we had over those, you know, year and a half, two years, of building our friendship, what you're saying is, has given you, a standard to look forward to, in relationship with other believers, and an excitement for that. Do you feel like that's, so that standard, that way of walking with other Christian couples, other believers, has inspired you and Daisy to be those kinds of friends to others? Whether or not they can fulfill the other side of it? Like do you feel like you guys, you're like, "Oh this is what it looks like, "this is how we're gonna attempt to walk "with other Christians?"

[Nathan] Yeah, definitely. I think that having a blueprint for what a godly friendship in marriage looks like is certainly helpful when you are creating new friendships with other Christians. I think it's helpful to have a blueprint of what that looks like.

[Jennifer] That's really good. And can you explain a little bit about your and Daisy's friendship in marriage? Because I feel like, we've been talking about friendship as a couple with other couples, but why is friendship within marriage so important? And how do you guys cultivate that?

[Nathan] It's funny, we've had to think about that a lot lately as we, as we lead a youth group and we're talking to kids who are wondering about future relationship and relationships that they're in, and as we model a godly relationship for them. I think most of our strong bond comes from being in ministry together and trying to inspire these kids. And a lot of the kids mention, often, at school, like for the kids that are really chasing after God, they mention the loneliness. How lonely it is. And we just kind of, as we counsel them, have come to realize, and Daisy's actually the one who counseled them on this, who was like, "That's why it's so important who you marry. "That you marry a man of God or a woman of God, "because often the person you're with, "is hidden, possibly the only one there with you, "walking after Christ." And as she was telling me that, I was reading how Jesus sent out the disciples, and he sent them out two-by-two. And it was, in a duo, was the word. And often, I feel like, in marriage, we are the two-by-two. We are the ones

Huh. I like that.

standing together. We are the ones that encourage each other. We are the ones who pick each other up. When I'm down, she's the one who pulls out, and she doesn't just encourage me regularly, she pulls out the Bible, and she's like, "Well, you remember Joseph, when he was in prison..." You know what I mean, and just starts preaching at you. And it's not just regular encouragement, it's the word from God, coming from my wife. And like, you can't, it's hard to even survive without that. It is so essential, I think, cause I just look at it like that. We're going out two-by-two, and she is the person God has put me with, for our ministry to go out into the world. She's my encouragement, but she encourages me through the Word. And I just think it's vital.

[Aaron] I love that. And the two-by-two, the friendship aspect of knowing, like, you can't be friend with the world and friend with God, you can't be, it's hard to have an unequally yoked relationship where one's a believer, one's not a believer. Which is why the encouragement should always be, to singles, like, "No, no, you chase after, "you marry a believer. "Someone who loves God." And uh, sorry, I love that, and Daisy it's really awesome that you, you help Nathan like that, where you preach the word of God to him. Cause like, what better friend than someone that's gonna say, "No, actually, this is what the Bible says, "remember it. "Don't forget, Nathan."

Right.

[Aaron] And vice versa.

[Daisy] Well, I think, I think we do that. It's cool though, I think that we do that for each other. Cause it's like, I don't know. I think Nathan can tend to be more melancholy than I am, but like, I feel like there's always a balance. When I'm in that place where I'm like, "Oh, I don't know." And it's like, Nathan does that for me, and it's just cool cause it's like, I don't know, it's like I've got his back and I know that he's got my back, and I think that that's really important, that I know that he's also listening to God and being moved by the Spirit. Like I can trust, I can trust him in that way.

[Nathan] Yeah, I think it's important, like what we always do, there's no encouragement. People can tell me like, worldly encouragement, and it can make me feel good for a second. But I think with a spouse and someone walking through life with you that knows you well, we're just giving each other like, spiritual smacks in the face, almost. Where it's like, "You stop, you get up! "It says he stand on the Word "of the Lord and God has said this "and that's what we will trust in! "You stop hanging your head, you look up!" You know what I mean? "Where does your help come from?" And you just kind of like, you know what I mean?

[Daisy] I don't say it like that!

[Nathan] But it's like.

[Aaron] That's how Nathan hears it, though, Daisy.

Yeah, yeah.

[Nathan] It's just kind of like this inspiring, you know, don't fall into that, that's lies. This is the truth. And that's what we stand on.

[Daisy] Yeah, and well, the person that you marry, I think this is why, this is what we're always really trying to impart to the kids is like, the person that you're dating and the person that you marry, they have the strongest voice in your life. They'll end up replacing your friends, your parents, not like in your relationships, but as far as having the strongest voice in your life. So it is important to not just you know, be attracted to somebody, cause I think, you know, that's easier.

[Aaron] It is important, but not as important, yeah.

[Daisy] It's not, you know? You have to, you know, you have to have other things. And I think being friends with the person that you're with and someone that you can trust, when you marry them, they'll have the strongest voice in your life. And so do you want someone that's also following Christ, to have the strongest voice in your life? And hopefully the answer is yes for them.

[Jennifer] It is for us!

[Aaron] That's such a good, it's such a good encouragement. So taking, not just who you marry, right? But most people are listening, are hopefully already married. We have some singles that listen. But, the other side of this is those voices, right? Going back to friendships outside of the marriage, those people have voices too. There's a scripture that says, "Bad company corrupts good morals." And the principle of that is like, who you spend the most time with is going to have the loudest voice in your life. So like, your spouse is the loudest voice, right? And then, you know, the biggest influence. And then your relationships that you spend the most time with outside of that. And that's kind of what I want to encourage everyone that's listening, the importance of aligning your lives, your relationships, with other believers who are walking the same direction, are chasing the same things, who believe the same words that you believe, you know, in the Word of God, in the Bible, and aren't trying to, "Oh, don't worry about that. "Oh, that's not a big deal. "Oh, you wanna go do something else?' Not trying to take you somewhere else, but are trying to keep you there. And I think that principle that you have in marriage should just go straight out, too, and the Bible teaches that. To not be unequally yoked, not just in marriage, but in our relationships.

[Daisy] Yeah, oh yeah.

[Aaron] It says, "What fellowship does light "have with darkness?" Doesn't mean we can't have friends or relationships with unbelievers. But we can't have fellowship with them. And what you were talking about in the beginning of, you know, we had fellowship with you guys. The ability to just sit and be still with you guys, and laugh, and have jokes, and have fun, and eat meals, and talk about hard things and deep things with you guys, was fellowship. And we've, like you've said, that template, we've taken that template forever. Like all of our relationships, we look at it, and we, we say, "Okay, we're gonna walk with these people "the way we've walked with you guys." But actually more so because we weren't as open with you guys as we should have been. We were learning back then. And I believe we actually would've had a, probably, even a deeper relationship, if we had been more honest back then, but we didn't know how to be. We hadn't been taught that. We hadn't experienced what that looked like until later on in our story. Which again, happened around friends, of the same nature. So you know, it happened in those same environments that we had with you guys. But I want to ask you guys, speaking of the big picture, speaking of what God's doing in our lives, through our lives, in this world, for His Kingdom, we talked about how we didn't know what God might have been doing. But looking back, we look at the relationship we have with you guys and God leading us into that relationship, and the impact that you guys have had, not only on our story, but on the ministry that God's used us in, has been immense. You know, we talk about how we probably wouldn't be here today, together, if it wasn't for you guys.

[Jennifer] Yeah, I feel like hanging out with you guys gave us a reprieve from the turmoil that we were experiencing intimately in our relationship. So it was like this hopefulness of, well, we still get to hang out with our friends and we still get to do these fun things together, so it gave us this breath of fresh air and hopefulness for the future.

[Aaron] Yeah, and I don't know if you guys realize that. Have you guys realized that kind of impact? I know it wasn't intentional, necessarily, but looking back, do you see like, wow, God used us in the Smiths' life?

[Nathan] No.

[Daisy] No.

[Aaron] Awesome, okay.

[Nathan] I mean, honestly, when I look back, when I know now what I know about the struggles you were going through, mostly I just feel bad. Like I wasn't a good friend for not noticing and that I missed an opportunity.

[Daisy] Yeah.

[Nathan] You just feel kinda, I don't know, maybe foolish, like I wasn't listening to God. Or like, "Man, God, like, "they were right there going through this stuff "and I didn't even know, "like how could I not have known?" But honestly, that has made me try to be more aware. You know? I'm like,

Awesome.

[Nathan] "Man, are these people going through stuff I don't know?" Cause I don't wanna, I don't wanna miss that again, you know?

[Aaron] Yeah.

[Nathan] I'm glad the story ended up well, where God was able to move and use it. But like, what if, I think like, what if God placed us there to save something, and what if it broke down later? And we missed our opportunity to be the hands of God?

[Jennifer] I appreciate you sharing that.

[Nathan] But it makes me, it's definitely something that I think we've added to our blueprint of what a Godly relationship looks like. Is like, watching out for them. Watching out for your friends. Watching for signs that they might not wanna talk about or face but I mean, I think that's what Christians do. We're supposed to hold each other accountable, encourage each other, and sometimes, everyone hides stuff and doesn't wanna be honest and talk about issues, but that's what God's called us to do.

[Aaron] You have to be light in each others' lives.

[Nathan] Yeah. And so I think we've just kinda added that to the blueprint of what we wanna do for future friends.

[Jennifer] I love that you shared that. And I just wanna point out a couple things. The first being that, even though you didn't know back then, you guys still were walking faithfully and were obedient to what you knew, which is how to be a righteous person, and how to encourage one another. And that's what you guys did for us. So I think the encouragement here, for those listening is, even if we don't know the details of what other people are going through, and we still walk in obedience, we still have an impact. And I think that's really awesome.

[Aaron] And I was also, I was thinking, of the Scripture, when Paul's talking about, "One waters, one plants, "but it's the Lord who brings the increase," and I just want to encourage you guys that, and those listening that, even though you didn't know, it's possible that, well we're all in a place where we didn't know certain things, but our maturity levels as Christians, you guys, weren't married yet until later.

[Daisy] Right.

[Aaron] And so, being faithful where God has you, with the knowledge that you do have, yeah you probably back then, could have asked us some questions, right? But you didn't know to, right? But that doesn't mean you weren't faithful. It doesn't mean you didn't do what you were called to do. You might have been naturally walking in that relationship with us, but it was out of a love for Christ in how you guys just normally live, and how you interacted with us. And I just want to encourage you that, you guys watered us. Whether you knew it or not, you may not have been the one planting, and I think you partly were planting in us, too, but the Lord's the one that brought the increase in our story. That's none of our responsibilities to bring the increase. God wants us to be faithful with either the planting or the watering or the both. And so, those listening, recognizing that we are to be faithful in our walks with Christ, and the knowledge that we have of Him, and to walk with other believers the way the Bible tells us to. Regardless if we have all the answers, regardless of if we know how the story's gonna turn out, whether we have all the puzzle pieces in the right spot, He just wants us to be faithful in those relationships the way He wants us to be. And what happens is God brings the increase. You know. And the encouragement, also, to people who are trying to witness and encourage people that aren't followers of Christ yet. Who don't, who aren't regenerated in the Spirit, who haven't accepted the Gospel, to be faithful in who we are as Christians, in the message that we've been given, and knowing that God's gonna do with that seed and the watering what He wants to do with it. And trusting that, and just continually being faithful in that, so. I just want to encourage you guys that, whether you knew it or not, you were watering and planting in us, seeds of faithfulness, of friendship, of truth, encouragement, and all of those things, God has used in our life. And so, I love that God has also used our relationship to show you how you guys can more intentional in your future relationships, and I'm sure you have been.

[Daisy and Nathan] Yeah.

[Aaron] Which is something God wants us to be, and so I think that's just wonderful.

[Jennifer] Yeah, that was gonna be my other point. When you were talking about how it's made you more vigilant to ask those bigger questions, and to have eyes to really see and discern what people are going through, and I think that also is an encouragement and testament for those listening that we can be, you know, people who pursue intimate relationships with other believers in this way and be willing to ask the bigger, harder questions, for their sake and for ours, so that we can exhort one another.

[Daisy and Nathan] Mmhmm.

[Nathan] Yeah.

[Aaron] So I want to just ask you guys, we're talking about friendship and relationship and whether or not you knew God was using you doesn't really matter, because God was. And when we're faithful to God and just walk with Him, and--

[Daisy] Say yes to Him.

[Aaron] Say yes to Him, and we pursue the things He loves and wants, He uses it. And He is faithful in that way. But in your own personal lives, you guys have been given a tool belt as well, and you have gifts and talents and resources and relationships and things that God's given to you and wants you to invest for His purposes. How do you guys encourage each other to use the gifts that you have? In your marriage and to those outside your marriage?

[Nathan] Just in the positions that we're in, I think a lot of the things that we have in common, that God uses most in us, is our musical abilities. And we love worship. And our love for youth and their struggle that they go through. And I think that, honestly, I think that I love Daisy the most when I'm watching her worship, or watching her counsel a young girl. I don't want to sound weird, but it's like, really attractive to see her using her gifts for God's glory. And God's given me similar gifts.

[Aaron] That's awesome.

[Nathan] That's how God kind of pairs us, I think. You know, like, we have passions for the same thing, and I think I love her most when I'm watching her use it or when she'd come home and she's like, "Oh, this girl's talking to me about this, "and I said this," And when I hear her answers, you're just like, "Oh man, it is so, man God just used you, "and what wisdom!" And you have to encourage each other in that, too, because usually after I say something or she says something or counsels someone, we come back and we're like, "This is what I said! "Was that okay?" You know, and it's nice to have someone be like, "Yes, no, that was spot-on, that was so good what you said. "I mean, that's what I'm gonna say, "if I'm ever asked that question." You know, and in a ministry, sometimes you feel the weight of every word that you say. This person needs hope in this moment, and they've come to me and I'm the person who has to give it to them. I am God in their, I am the person God can use right now, oh God, please, like this is important. So it's really nice to have someone to check with. Or be like, "Man, did I get that right?" And kind of, check your wisdom. And it's so nice to have someone who's there with you in the trenches being like, "Oh man, no, that was God, that was awesome."

[Daisy] I feel the same way, I just feel like it's, I don't know, you have so much wisdom. I'm like, "This kid wants to talk to me, "I need you to be there, so you can say smart things!" Not like, not that I'm not smart, I don't know, I just feel like sometimes I get tongue-tied, and I'm just like, "Okay, Nathan, you gotta do this for us, "represent us both." I don't know.

[Aaron] You guys are answering exactly what I was thinking.

[Nathan] But that's also like, why it's important that I encourage her. Because often, she'll say things that I wouldn't have thought of, like sometimes the right intelligent answer isn't what a person needs to hear. They need to hear a loving answer. Sometimes they just need an open ear. And I see so many times when people say, "Oh I didn't have the right answer," and then I'll just like, "Maybe God just wanted you to listen in that moment." And so, I think what Daisy says is awesome. And so I like, encourage her, be like, "No, you can do it, you are capable. "When you say stuff, I'm like, 'Man, that was awesome! "'How'd she come up with that?'" I just think it's nice to be reminded by the person you care about the most, that you know, God is using you and that you're on track.

[Jennifer] I think that's so powerful. And to tie it back into what you guys were talking about earlier, about voices, and you know, the impact that we have in each other's lives, like you guys are ministering to young kids, and as a couple, your voice is so powerful and so impactful, and when you go back to, you know, conversations of what you guys have been through, or experienced with these children, you're refining each other, and you're building one another up, you're encouraging one another, you're gleaning from each other the wisdom that you're each sharing, and you're cultivating that voice that you're sharing with the world. And I love that, and the impact is unfathomable, like you'll never know the extent, the impact you're actually having in each individual life that you guys are ministering to. And I think that's true for every marriage after God. And that encourages me.

[Aaron] Which is why we need to be excited about what God's doing in us, faithful about it, and just like, you know, you brought up the Old Testament prophets. The Bible tells us that, in Hebrews, none of them got to see what they were told they were gonna see. They were looking forward to what we get now. And so this idea that we might not ever see how God is fully moving, because this picture He's building is huge. But as long as we're excited about it, we're encouraging each other, we're moving forward, we're faithful in the things He's given us, and investing for Him. God's gonna do what his purposes are in this world, and we get to be used sometimes, which is awesome. And so, praise God for what He's doing in you guys, and through you guys, and we praise God all the time for, just our relationship with you, and what it means to us. And so our prayer is that, the couples listening will be able to experience close biblical friendships and how that can impact the world for God's Kingdom, how it can impact their marriages.

[Jennifer] I would like to encourage them listening, everyone, all of us listening, to remember that we don't have to sit around and wait for God to give us friendships, but that we have an obligation to be the friends that He has called us to be in other people's lives, and we can start doing that today.

[Aaron] Or we can wait for our parents to set us up

Set us up.

On a double friendship date. Well let us take from your parents' advice and let's do this for our kids. Set them up on double friendship dates.

[Jennifer] You know, at the end of every episode throughout this series, we've asked each couple to share this last question, and so we're gonna ask you guys as well, it's, in your own words, what is a marriage after God?

[Nathan] I think a marriage after God, I think starts with each individual seeking after God with all their heart. And then, then when you come together, and to each of you individually, God comes first, then when you come together in marriage, everything you do is for His glory, and is about Him and about furthering His Kingdom. And the evidence is shown in your children, in the way you spend your time with them, and the things you say to them. And the way you encourage them, and the way you build them up, and the way you handle their mistakes. It's evidenced by, how you encourage one another, where your encouragement comes from, are you just encouraging someone like, "No, you're the best!" Or are you like, giving them biblical encouragement? Which is where the real strength is. And like, and it's evidenced by sharing each other, like "Oh this is what I read in the Scripture today." Like you can amass so much more biblical knowledge if you have two people reading the Bible and then sharing with each other what God showed.

[Aaron] That's awesome.

[Nathan] Or even like, reading the same thing and having different, "This is what God showed me," "This is what God showed me," and like, God kind of like, uses us to sharpen each other in every aspect in our lives. In parenting, in work, in ministry, in health and fitness.

[Aaron] It's true.

[Daisy] Well yeah, I think just having Jesus at the center of your marriage kind of changes your priorities, you know. And I don't know, it's like, it kind of takes the, hopefully it's not like it's perfect from the get-go, but I think it really helps with like, the selfishness you can find in marriages, or even just friendships. When you're constantly reminding yourself that Jesus is at the center, I think it really helps keeps your priorities straight, you know.

[Aaron] That's so good. The point is like, hey, remember what we're doing? We're getting off track, what's going on? Love that. So guys, we love you guys, we miss you guys a lot, so you guys need to come to Bend, Oregon and visit us soon.

[Daisy] Oh, we miss you, too.

[Nathan] We love you guys, too, we miss you.

[Aaron] So, can you guys let everyone know where to find you guys, your music.

[Nathan] Yeah, we are the Quiet Science. We are on Instagram. We're still on Facebook. We are on, you can listen to us on Spotify, we're on iTunes, we're everywhere. The Quiet Science.

[Aaron] The Quiet Science.

[Daisy] He always says it really fast.

[Aaron] And we definitely want to encourage everyone to go check em out, their music is awesome. They've been doing it for years and they do it as a couple.

[Daisy] Our secret band.

[Aaron] Yeah, we want to thank everyone for listening to today's episode. We pray that it's been an encouragement to you in your marriage, to seek out godly friendships, and to realize that God wants to use your story, He wants to use the relationships in your life to impact this world for His goodness, for His purposes, for His Kingdom. And so we're just gonna end in prayer.

[Jennifer] Dear Lord, thank you for your creativity in how you made each and every one of us. Lord, you put so much thought and care into how you made us. Thank you for the resources you have given to our marriage, and the unique talents and gifts that you have blessed us with. We pray that as Christian husbands and wives, we would not only desire to use all the tools we have, but also pursue what you want us to do with them. We pray you would show us how you would like us to invest what we have so that we can grow your Kingdom in this world. Help us to encourage each other, and affirm each other in how we use the gifts, talents, experiences, testimony, and resources that you've given to us. We pray that your name would be magnified as we remain obedient to all that you have called us to do. We pray that our marriages would represent and reflect your divine love story. May we be ambassadors of your love to this hurting world. Inspire us to be creative in the ways that we share about you, and share about the faith that we have in you. Thank you for the gift of life and thank you for salvation. In Jesus' name, Amen.

[Aaron and Nathan] Amen.

[Daisy] Amen.

[Aaron] So again, thank you for joining us on this podcast episode. This is part eight of the Marriage After God series. We're halfway, we have eight more episodes and eight more interviews. You're not gonna wanna miss em, so we look forward to having you next week. Did you enjoy today's show? If you did, it would mean the world to us if you could leave us a review on iTunes. Also, if you're interested, you can find many more encouraging stories and resources at MarriageAfterGod.com. And let us help you cultivate an extraordinary marriage.

Join the marriage movement and order our new book today. Marriage After God. https://marriageaftergod.com

Today we interview some old friends of ours who have been on a faithful journey with money and business together. They even host Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University groups at their home to help others join their journey.

Quote From Chapter 7 Of Marriage After God

"The goal for every marriage after God is to build a healthy and biblical financial foundation so as to be good stewards and good servants with everything God entrusts to us."

Quote from Marriage After God... “This may seem elementary, but often the simplest things produce the most powerful impact over a lifetime, and it is those very things that often get neglected.”

Dear Lord,

Thank you for giving us the resources we need to accomplish the mission you have for us. Thank you for showing us in your word how to be good stewards with what we have. We pray that as Christian husbands and wives we would walk in wisdom when it comes to our finances. May we be on the same page in marriage, and may we communicate well with each other as we submit to you. We pray that we would not waste the things that you have given to us but instead we pray we would invest them for your kingdom. We pray that we would see everything that we have, our marriages, our children, our assets, our time, all of it, as gifts you have given us to steward well. Please help us to be an example in this world of how to live righteously. Help us to be an example to our children and to teach them your ways. Lord, help us to steward this life well for your namesake.

In Jesus’ name, amen!

READ TRANSCRIPT

[Aaron] Hey, we're Aaron and Jennifer Smith with Marriage After God.

[Jennifer] Helping you cultivate an extraordinary marriage.

[Aaron] And today, we're in part seven of the Marriage After God series. And we're gonna be talking with Josh and Priscilla Millsap about being good stewards with our finances. Welcome to the Marriage After God podcast, where we believe that marriage was meant for more than just happily ever after.

[Jennifer] I'm Jennifer, also known as UnveiledWife.

[Aaron] And I'm Aaron, also known as HusbandRevolution.

[Jennifer] We have been married for over a decade.

[Aaron] And so far, we have four young children.

[Jennifer] We have been doing marriage ministry online for over seven years through blogging and social media.

[Aaron] With the desire to inspire couples to keep God at the center of their marriage, encouraging them to walk in faith every day.

[Jennifer] We believe the Christian marriage should be an extraordinary one, full of life,

[Aaron] love,

[Jennifer] and power

[Aaron] that can only be found by chasing after God

[Jennifer] together.

[Aaron] Thank you for joining us in this journey as we chase boldly after God's will for our life together.

[Jennifer] This is Marriage After God. Thank you guys so much for joining us this week. We just wanted to take a moment and just encourage you to leave us a review on the Marriage After God podcast. This is just a great way to get the message out there that the podcast is live and that this message is for every marriage. So we just wanted to ask you to go to the bottom of the app and just leave a star-rating review or a comment review.

[Aaron] And also, we want to invite you, the whole reason were doing this 16-part series and all these interviews, is to talk about the Marriage After God book that we wrote together. It's how you can support this podcast, and we'd just love to get a copy in your hands. It's called Marriage After God, and you can go to shop.marriageaftergod.com and pick up a copy today. We'd love for you to get a copy.

[Jennifer] So today we have Josh and Priscilla Millsap. Thank you guys so much for being with us today.

Hi, you're welcome.

Hey! Thanks for having us.

[Jennifer] Would you just take a moment and just let everyone know who you are, how long you've been married, how many kids you have, what you do for work, that kind of thing?

[Josh] Well, we are Josh and Priscilla Millsap. We are, let's see, it's gonna be 14 years here in June. We have four kids aging from 13 to four--

[Aaron] Wow, awesome.

[Josh] And we do quite a few things when it comes to work, everything from our own business that is Pristine Solutions, where we do window cleaning, screen repairs, and few other little odd-end things as well, and then also I have an outside sales position with a company called Hunter Engineering.

[Aaron] Awesome.

[Priscilla] And I stay home, and I home school, and I help run the business, the window cleaning business as well.

[Aaron] Awesome, so you guys work together and have some other side work. We love that because that's kind of our story a little bit too. Awesome, so how do we know you guys? How do you know us? Where did we meet?

[Priscilla] I met Jen through my sisterhood Bible study. I think she came with a friend one time, and so we met through then and kinda connected and just via social media have kinda stayed in touch.

[Jennifer] Yep, I've been following you for a while. You have such great encouragement too. I always get refreshed when I see your stories up, so I appreciate that.

[Priscilla] Oh, praise God, thank you.

[Aaron] Yeah, and one of the reasons we wanted to interview you guys is because we see you guys as a marriage after God, and that you guys use your talents and resources in many different ways to serve God, so we're excited to kinda dig into some of those things. But before we do that, we have an icebreaker question.

[Jennifer] A fun question.

[Aaron] Yeah, and since we thought of a question that was around money because we're gonna be talking about being stewards, and this is a funny one because this has nothing to do with stewardship But if you were given, and both of you gotta answer this, if you were given $100 today, and there's not gonna be any shame or guilt in what you spent it on--

[Jennifer] No strings attached.

[Aaron] What would you spend it on?

[Priscilla] Oh, well, easily either date night, but selfishly, probably just more Lululemon.

[Aaron] I love that story.

[Jennifer] That's awesome.

[Priscilla] But go ahead, babe.

[Aaron] They have the best gym shorts.

[Josh] Yeah, it would definitely be a date night. We have one of our favorite restaurants that we haven't been to in quite a while that we would, that I would definitely use that for.

[Priscilla] Yeah, that'd be fun.

[Jennifer] That's so awesome, you guys. I love that. Okay, so we're gonna move on to the quote from Marriage After God from chapter seven. It says, the goal for every marriage after God is to build a healthy and biblical financial foundation so as to be good stewards and good servants with everything God entrusts to us.

[Aaron] Yeah, so how does that, just real quick, when you hear that, do you feel like that is something that is encompassed in your guys' marriage and life, something you guys are striving towards? What do you guys think?

[Josh] Yes, yeah it is, absolutely. Being a good servant towards God as well as stewards of everything He's given us is a huge calling as a Christian husband, but also as we grow closer to God, that is definitely what He's calling us all to do.

[Priscilla] Yeah, and I would say it doesn't really matter what place you're in, whether you're struggling or you're maybe more, your foundation is a little more secure financially or you're prospering, whatever you have can be used to help build up the kingdom. I mean, whether your house is big or small, you can still use that. I think sometimes we think we have to have so much more to be a good steward, but technically, whatever you have, and so, no matter where we've been at in our process of getting out of debt or whatever, we try to use what we have to benefit others or bless others or build up the local church or stuff like that.

[Aaron] I love that perspective, and it's exactly what we're trying to get across in this chapter of the book, being a good and faithful steward is. We sometimes, and I remember, there's been times in our life, Jennifer, that we would say, well, if we had a little bit more, then we'd give more. If we had a little bit more, we'd save better, or we'd be able to do that one thing that we know that we've been desiring to do for God, but you're right. As long as it's something out there, we'll never do it, but if it's something that we have now, we can be a steward with it and be faithful with the little, or whatever it is now. I love that.

[Jennifer] Yeah, I remember that we were tempted to think that way, but it didn't take very long for God to kind of prick your heart and get you to lead in a way that encouraged us to be good stewards with even the little bit that we had.

[Aaron] I remember the spirit just saying, hey, if you're not gonna do it now, why do you think you'll do it later?

[Priscilla] Exactly, yes, that.

[Jennifer] And Priscilla, I really liked what you said about it doesn't matter what you've been given, whether you're prosperous or not, because that right there is so relatable to everybody listening right now. So everybody's accountable and responsible for what they have today, so I just love that we're starting out the episode with that.

[Priscilla] Yeah. Yeah, 'cause we've definitely had--

[Aaron] So--

[Priscilla] Oh, sorry, go ahead.

[Aaron] No, you go ahead.

[Priscilla] Oh, I was just gonna say we've definitely had times where it's like, we're living out of boxes, and we're living in someone else's house, but still even having community with people. I don't know. We kinda make excuses sometimes for why we don't jump out there and do more. But that's a huge encouragement. You don't have to have a lot to really just bless someone or reach out or have community.

[Jennifer] Yep.

[Aaron] Yeah, you just have to have what God's given you and then steward it well. Use it for Him, use it for your family, and not squander it. So how would you define being a good and faithful steward over what God has given you guys? We've mentioned some of it, but how do you define that in your life?

[Josh] Well, being a good and faithful steward, if we look at Matthew chapter 25, when he actually talks about the talents, the story of the talents, it really has to deal with resources, not necessarily a monetary thing, so learning how to use everything that God has given us in a proper perspective of a Christian not owning anything but being in charge of what everything God has given us in total resources, family, friends, influence, whatever it may be, understanding that our role is not to own but to simply manage on God's behalf is a huge thing for me.

[Priscilla] Yeah. I think just using that perspective--

[Aaron] That was a really good quote real quick.

[Priscilla] With all of our, it's easy to grip on tight to what you have, but stuff comes and goes, right?

[Josh] Yeah.

[Aaron] Yeah, always. I love that quote you said, what was it? I almost forgot it. Oh, we don't own things, we manage things.

[Josh] Yeah.

[Aaron] And I love that.

[Jennifer] So how does our stewardship affect what God is inviting us to do, whether that's good or bad?

[Aaron] If we steward well or steward poorly, how does those actions affect, how when we're being invited by God to do something, when we're chasing after God, does it matter?

[Josh] Yes, it does.

[Priscilla] Yeah.

[Josh] Especially in that Matthew 25 section is, while you can see that God honors and blesses the good and faithful stewards with more, and yet the one who decided he was not going to do anything with it and basically be a sloth with it or lazy with it was punished. So he really does value those that make sure that they have a proper mindset about how God has blessed their life versus those who just sit on it and take advantage of it and not use it to bless God.

[Jennifer] Was there a point in your guys' marriage when you guys looked at your finances and said, we have to change? It wasn't going in the direction that you wanted it to go, it wasn't lining up biblically, and you just knew?

[Priscilla] Oh, girl.

[Josh] Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Priscilla] Let me tell you.

[Aaron] Tell us, tell us, yeah.

[Priscilla] Yeah, we struggled. I mean, I think we just kinda saw the way our parents lived, but obviously, they're 25 years or so ahead of us, but we're seeing the way they live, and we're trying to match that with making nothing-burger amounts of money an hour. And so we really got into a lot of debt, including like he already had student-loan debt before I came in the picture, so when we got married, we were already about $100,000 in debt, which is crazy 'cause I was 19, and he was 23. So that's how we started off our marriage. Also, not to mention, I was pregnant, so that's a story for another day. So there is already just so much going on there, and it just made it really stressful, so we really limped along for about two-and-a-half years, and had someone not stepped in and gave us some resources, we probably would be divorced. But my dad actually gave us The Total Money Makeover for Christmas.

[Aaron] From Dave Ramsey?

[Priscilla] Yes, yes, Dave Ramsey's Total Money Makeover, and we literally sat and read it on New Year's Eve, and then that new year we just decided to change our life. And we were what he would call gazelle-intense, and sell everything but the kids, have garage sales. So that was like, okay, this is a real plan and a real hope for us, 'cause I think we knew the direction we wanted to go. We just felt like we couldn't get there or didn't really know what to do or have a steady plan in place. So that was a real game-changer for us.

[Josh] Yep.

[Jennifer] Awesome. So, when you started to make those changes in your life, did you have little victories that encouraged you and motivated you? Can you share a little bit about that?

[Josh] Yeah, those were kind of fun because when we were in that so much debt, there was so much tension built around just about every aspect of life because, as a husband, my wife was so stressed about the money and the bills were coming in, and as a husband you kind of feel like a failure when your wife is in such a stressful position in something that you should be able to handle, finances with work. And so it was, when we finally got on the same page and saw a future in the direction that we wanted to move in, when we would pay off those off little bills and we would get those things out from underneath us, the weight that was lifted off was just huge, and we could finally feel victory and direction in a way that we knew was God-honoring as well.

[Priscilla] I think I remember--

[Jennifer] That's so awesome.

[Priscilla] Yeah, like our first garage sale we had, we made $500, which was so exciting, but we were trying to get that first step of get a little $1,000 emergency fund, so that was even a very real, tangible victory there. And yeah, our whole life shifted pretty fast. So there was a lot of things. Obviously, the tension between us lifted, like you said, and we actually went back to church 'cause we hadn't been to church in a while, and we started giving. So there was lots of little shifts that happened very quickly.

[Aaron] So you guys started giving during this season of, this gazelle-like sprint?

[Priscilla] Oh, right away, right away. Now, I wouldn't say it was high. We hadn't even been in church regularly, and so we were like, oh, well this is telling us we need to give, so I guess we should go back to church if we're gonna do that.

[Jennifer] That's awesome.

[Aaron] Go, Dave Ramsey.

[Priscilla] We go back to church, and we just were like, okay, Lord, we're gonna just step out in faith and do $25 a week, which was a lot for us at the time, 'cause we were drowning in debt. And then, I think probably a few months in we went to $50 a week, and probably six months into this journey we were at a full-blown tithe, but yeah, God really just honored even that little bit of just stepping out in faith.

[Jennifer] Wow, that's so awesome, you guys. I think I said "awesome" already so many times already in this episode, but I really appreciate your guys' transparency, and I think that the first thing that comes to my mind as you were sharing is that a lot of people are gonna understand that weight that you felt underneath that debt, and there's probably even people, couples listening who are under that weight of debt. But how encouraging it is to hear that even something like a garage sale and getting your feet, jumping in or running like a gazelle, like you said, toward that to accomplish it, those little victories matter so much. So I just wanted that to be a note and an encouragement for them to hear. So I just appreciate you sharing that, because I think that if they, hopefully, this excites them so that they start making action steps toward their debt and getting free.

[Priscilla] Yeah, that's so, so important, yeah, little victories to motivate you.

[Aaron] So, I got a question. Are you guys debt-free?

We are not

Not yet.

[Priscilla] currently debt-free, no.

[Aaron] Okay, which is totally fine, but my second question to this is do you guys live now in a, what we call in the book, a debt-free mentality?

[Josh] Yes.

[Priscilla] Yeah, so just to be totally transparent, we got very, very close on our journey. We did pay off all those student loans. We paid off all our credit-card debt. We were driving paid-for cars.

[Aaron] Awesome.

[Priscilla] So we got there. Last year, we made some career changes that did, we did make the decision together to take on a little bit of debt. That was really, really hard for us to do because of the journey that we've been on, but we really felt like this was the path forward. And there's been so many crazy, cool things since making that shift 'cause we really had to, yeah, we had give up some things. There was a lot of sacrifice there, so but it's been really cool to see what the Lord's doing with that. So but now, yes, we're back on that track, so it kinda feels like we've gone back to square one, but we've done it before, and we're gonna do it again.

[Josh] Yep.

[Jennifer] That's so awesome to hear.

[Aaron] So I love that 'cause I want everyone listening, 'cause most of the country is in debt--

[Millsaps] Yeah.

[Aaron] And our heart in this chapter in this part of the book is to say just because everyone's doing it doesn't mean we should do it.

[Priscilla] Exactly, totally.

[Aaron] And so, that debt-free mentality is, whether you're in debt or not, that you begin to act like you would be when you're out of debt.

Right.

Yes.

[Aaron] Meaning you don't overspend, which is Dave Ramsey's model anyway. It's like, spend within your means, save, pay off your debt. But I wanna ask you guys, the getting out of debt is awesome, and I don't wanna over-spiritualize getting out of debt, but why does it matter that we get out of debt? Why does it matter that you guys are faithful and good stewards with your money? It's not just for the sake of being debt-free and, oh, good for us, we're debt-free now. Why is it? What's the big deal?

[Priscilla] Oh man, okay, so I don't know where this verse is in the Bible. Maybe someone can find it later. But the one where it talks about running the race and laying aside every weight, you know what I mean? Being in debt isn't necessarily a sin. I mean, there's sin at the core of that, and that's how you got there or whatever, but it's just running the race for the Lord and having a healthy marriage and a healthy family, it just creates so much stress, and you kinda have, if a lot of your focus is there, and it could be an indicator of where your heart is at, and it's different for each person, I suppose. But if your focus is on your financial woes, and oftentimes, seven to eight out of 10 people are living paycheck to paycheck. That's stressful, and a lot of that is because we have gotten ourselves in these monumental piles of debt, and we can't think straight. We can't focus on other things, or you're having to work so much to pay all this off. When you're mentally spent, and you're physically spent on just trying to pay for your lifestyle, you can't really focus on the things that are the most important, like discipling your kids, and building up the local church, and loving on people around you. And you're also, there's a lot of opportunities you're gonna have to say no to because financially you just don't have the means, or things you want to support, so it just becomes a weight, really, like a noose around your neck that you can't, you have very limited freedom on the opportunities and things you're able to do.

[Josh] Yeah. I was gonna, to piggyback on that, that we are the example to our kids that, as we deal with money, as we deal with stress, as we deal with debt, our kids are watching how we behave, how we deal with, how do we overcome the struggles of something may not go our way for a month or something. How do we deal with that, and are we faithful to God in prayer? Are we understanding that He provides everything for us and that ultimately we're gonna trust in what He has planned for us? Or are we gonna sit there and blame each other, blame the world? How are we gonna deal with things that don't go our way? And our kids are always watching, so as we have a proper perspective of our role as Christians within the confines of what God gives us, they are watching, and they are learning.

[Jennifer] Gosh, Josh, that is so good, and I just love that you went there because we all, as parents, need to be reminded about the impact we're having in our children's lives and the foundation that we're setting them up for, and I just, that is so good and so right on, which kind of leads me into this next question. Because I follow Priscilla on social media, I saw a picture of her daughter recently with a bunch of bottles in front of her, baby bottles filled with money. So I want you guys to explain that and explain kind of that example that you're setting for your kids and how you're incorporating them into what you guys are doing.

[Priscilla] Yeah, so, I mean, we really try to keep it super simple for them. That actually was our Bible study got together and collected some money for a local organization here called Corona Life Services, which is basically a pregnancy crisis clinic, and so that was really cool. But they actually were the ones, my kids actually were the ones that even went around our neighborhood, just talking to people about Corona Life Services. And I think--

[Aaron] That is so cool.

[Priscilla] Yeah, it was really, really cool. And who's gonna say no to kids? So that's a great way-So, I mean, it's like, some money, send your kids. No, I'm just kidding. But, so we--

[Aaron] It's good strategy.

[Priscilla] Yeah No, but it's funny, actually, because we just got, you get, at the end of the year you get your giving statement from your church or whatever, and each of our kids actually had one because they go and they put their money in, they fill out the little envelope.

[Aaron] That's really cool.

[Priscilla] But we had just basically taught them spend, save, give, like, what you're earning, 'cause our kids are hustlers, man. They've seen us just hustle for the last few years, and they're like, we want to hustle. What could we do? So they've done all kinds of things. And so, they have their own bank accounts, and we go to the bank, they fill out their own thing, and so, once they have so much in a little stockpile, it's like, okay, this you get to spend, this we're gonna take to the bank, and this you're taking to church on Sunday. So we just keep it simple and just hopefully forming those good habits now 'cause I mean, I literally remember getting my first paycheck, and I'm like, I'm going straight to Guess and buying a pair of jeans. But already our kids are like, I'm not spending that kind of money. They're very frugal. Well, one of them is not, but we won't put her on blast. So But for the most part, yes.

[Aaron] But those skills are amazing for them to learn now. Like you said, you're building habits that we necessarily didn't have growing up. I'm sure maybe our parents tried in some ways, but just the intentionality of saying it's not just money and that we use it for ourselves, but this is actually something that's God's giving us, and how are we gonna manage it?

[Priscilla] And they're learning to hold it loosely at a young age, you know what I mean?

[Men] Yes.

[Priscilla] I actually saw my son do something that sort of blew my hair back, and then I was convicted that it blew my hair back 'cause I'm like, that should be everyone. But we were doing a gift for someone, and we were kinda pulling some money together. We made this cute little thing with it, and just for a family we wanted to love on, and a bunch of people came together and did this. And I'm like, hey, I asked my kids, I'm like, you guys wanna participate in this? And it's not like, hey, we've got some money, and you have to participate, but I want them to want to? And my son, I was like, just a couple bucks we could tie on there or five bucks. And my son comes in with a $20 bill, and I'm like, baby, you know what I mean, it's fine, just grab a five or something. This sounds horrible, right? Maybe we should make this podcast anonymous, but--

[Aaron] Yeah.

[Priscilla] He's all, well, I don't need it. He's like--

[Smiths] Aww!

[Priscilla] And I was like, oh my gosh. Why did I just try to talk my son out of giving? What's wrong with me? But it just blessed me so much.

[Aaron] Are you sure you want to give that much?

[Priscilla] How much do we have? And it's like, we have stuff we don't really need, but anyways, it's cool to see them forming those habits and holding it loosely and not being. I think it's easy to just want to hold onto everything you have, but and you just don't know, what the seasons come and go, and so.

[Jennifer] Well, good for you guys. We commend you for teaching your children rightly and righteously, and I just hope that this is an encouragement for all of us parents today to be leading our children the way the Bible calls us to.

[Aaron] Yeah, and I have another question for you guys. We're getting down to the end. But again, going back to what we were talking about. The whole purpose of all this is we're not just good stewards for the sake of good stewardship. We're not just savers for the sake of having more money. We're not just debt-free mentality just for the sake of getting out of debt. God's got something for us to do. He's got a ministry for his body to be working in, and we're a part of that body. And I noticed in your Instagram feed that you guys, I don't know if you guys are still doing this, but you've hosted Financial Peace University classes at your home for other people. What motivated you guys to do that, not just for yourselves, but now you're like, hey, let's bring other people into this?

[Priscilla] That's exactly it. We just wanted to see people have victory in their financial lives. I mean, really for us, it turned our whole life around.

[Josh] Yeah.

[Priscilla] It wasn't just turned our bank account around.

[Josh] No.

[Priscilla] Our marriage was struggling. Our finances were struggling. We were just struggling, all of it, spiritually, we were struggling big time. So it really just, it was a catalyst to get us on the right track. And not everybody's in that dire of a circumstance, but for sure--

[Aaron] But many are, financially.

[Priscilla] Yeah, and really, accountability for us, continuing to do that, and then just yeah, really wanting to see people's eyes open to the possibilities of when we're giving like we should, when we're saving like we should, and when we're managing our money like we should, there's opportunity there.

[Josh] Yeah, but I mean, and you kind of alluded to it a little while earlier. In high school and in school we're not taught how to deal with money for the most part. We go to school, we learn what we need to learn, but we're not really instructed on how this world works around money, and so going these Financial Peace or the Dave Ramsey, we actually got an understanding of how money works. And so we saw frustration and stress on a lot of other couple's faces, and it wasn't that they were struggling with anything necessarily huge, but you could just see that desire to want to get beyond where they were at, but not have the knowledge or the ability to really understand what they needed to do. And so, we would kinda just make the suggestion, like, hey, well, this really helped not only our marriage, but an understanding of a direction that God really wanted us to go with our money.

[Aaron] I love that, and it's you guys ministering to other couples and helping them mature, helping them grow, walking with them as you are also walking in these things. And what's funny is that, or not funny, but what's amazing is when we walk in obedience in little areas, and I see money as a little area, even though it feels so big, but it's a little area because, once we figure it out and get control of it and start walking rightly in it, it just starts happening, making more sense and working better. It doesn't mean we're gonna be wealthy, but if we're out of debt, we're already wealthier than 90% of the country, right?

[Millsaps] Yeah.

[Aaron] Just because you're out of debt, even if you only made a minimum-wage job.

[Priscilla] Totally.

[Aaron] But I just love that we serve God in those little things, and it makes it easier for us to serve God in bigger things. And I'm sure as you guys do this it's easier for you to open your homes for other things. It's easier for you to go, and like you said, you gave a little bit each week, and then you gave more. That's a perfect example of us walking in faith, being faithful with a little, and being able to be faithful with much.

[Jennifer] Yeah, and what I think is cool is that in your obedience to managing your finances well, you experienced those mini-victories--

[Aaron] Yeah, those little wins.

[Jennifer] or large victories, and that motivated you to say you can do it too, and you reached out to other people.

[Millsaps] Yeah.

[Jennifer] And that's a large part of the message of Marriage After God. The book is to inspire couples to say, what have we experienced, what have we walked through that we can then encourage other people with?

[Aaron] You can do it too.

[Jennifer] And say you can do it too. So I just, I think that's so awesome that you guys have done that and are still continuing to do ministry together as a team for God in even other ways. So, super awesome.

[Aaron] So I got two more questions for you. The second-to-last one is this. If you can encourage our listeners right now with two things that they can do that'll help them gain victory in the area of finances and just being good stewards, what would you say?

[Priscilla] Oh, gosh, two things. Well, one, get on a budget. Get on a budget. Get on, write down a budget. That would be, you need to start there, knowing how much you're even spending and what you've got coming in, going out. We can't just walk around in the dark.

[Josh] Yeah, it's hard to imagine, but there are couples out there that either one or both really have no idea how much comes in and how much is going out.

[Priscilla]Yeah. And then, gosh, I would just say start giving. I think that stepping out in faith is so important, and really just trusting the Lord to, just trusting the Lord with that. It's so tempting, especially when you're in a tough spot, to want to hold on to what you have. And like I said, you don't have to be like, okay, 10% right away. Start with just something that you're gonna be committed to and yeah, I would say give.

[Aaron] Right, which is practicing generosity, practicing obedience of giving to those that are teaching you and maturing you. I love that.

[Josh] Yeah, it also feels literally intuitive.

[Jennifer] Awesome, guys.

[Josh] You want to, in the moment when you're trying to save and pay off debt, it doesn't make sense to give something away in that kind of a setting. But as we're obedient to what God's word calls us to do, and that's something that he puts a great importance on, then he sees that as that step of faith, and that's a good thing.

[Aaron] I love that. I think of, when you just said the world obedience, and I think of the story of the rich young ruler going to Jesus and saying, Jesus, how do I get to heaven? And He says, follow the commands, and he's, I've done all these commands. And He says, one thing you lack. And He says, go and sell all that you have, give to the poor, and follow me. And I think a lot of people have taken that, the poverty gospel, and saying, oh, if you have things, you're not holy. If you things, you're not, but that's not what's actually happening.

[Josh] No.

[Aaron] Jesus has given a command to this man, and he disobeyed it.

[Priscilla] Yeah.

[Josh] Yeah.

[Aaron] So, the problem, He says, the thing you lack is obedience to me. He says, sell all you have, give it to the poor, and follow me. And he walks away sad because he's got much wealth. He would rather enamored and enveloped in his wealth than be obedient to Christ.

[Josh] Well, and his wealth--

[Aaron] And so, like you said, that obedience--

[Josh] His wealth had given him a comfort level that he was really used to, and he was fine with attaining righteousness along with his wealth, but he didn't understand what that cost was really going to be, and it was hard. He didn't want to do it.

[Aaron] Yeah. And the cost is, like I was getting at, is obedience. Christ wants obedience. And so, like you said, you practice that obedience. It may be counterintuitive--

[Priscilla] Yes, exactly.

[Aaron] But He wants generous hearts in His body. He wants generous givers. He wants people that trust Him, and I just love that. Thank you for that.

[Jennifer] Okay, you guys, we're moving on to the last question, and it is this. In your own words, what is a marriage after God?

[Josh] In our words, a marriage after God. It's really understanding your role as a Christian, as a husband, as a wife, to know that we are servants. We are, again, we don't control, we don't own anything, that God has put us here as servants to manage what He has given us, and as we are found faithful with what He's given us, He can trust us then with more, day in and day out, not only with money, finances, but resources, what we have at our disposal to do things to influence our friends, to bear each other's burdens, to really be able to dive into people's lives and be able to help and lift in a way that's practical as well as spiritually helpful.

[Aaron] Mm, I love that. Amen, wow.

Yeah.

[Aaron] Yeah, go ahead, 'cause--

[Priscilla] Oh, I was just, my word for the year is surrender, and so, really just, I mean, me personally, but just really surrendering, kind of our ideas of what our life should look like, and we've, man, we've had a rollercoaster of a year, and we just couldn't even have anticipated what all that was gonna look like, but really, just continue to press into the Lord and press into each other and keeping short account, staying vulnerable, really challenging ourselves to really be praying together often. So just really seeking the Lord together and being on the same page.

[Jennifer] Mm, that's good.

[Aaron] Praise God. Well, Josh, Priscilla, we are so happy to have interviewed you guys, and we thank you for your guys' honesty and openness in sharing your guys' journey, because that's where, I mean, everyone's on a journey. And the goal is, as marriages after God, that we're all chasing after God, and it doesn't mean that we're all at the same place in our walks, but that we're all going the same direction.

[Priscilla] Yeah.

[Aaron] And we say this throughout the book, unity, one mind, one heart, one spirit, with one mission, and so I just, I thank you guys, I commend you guys, and I pray that you guys would continue on that journey of getting out of debt so that you guys can just continue to serve more and more and give more and more, and we love that, so thank you. And so, what we're gonna do is we're gonna end in prayer, and then I'm gonna close us out, so join us. Dear Lord, thank you for giving us the resources we need to accomplish the mission you have for us. Thank you for showing us in your word how to be good stewards with what we have. We pray that as Christian husbands and wives we would walk in wisdom when it comes to our finances. May we be on the same page in marriage, and may we communicate with each other as we submit to you. We pray that we would not waste the things that you have given us, but instead, we pray we would invest them for your kingdom. We pray that we would see everything that we have, our marriage, our children, our assets, our time, all of it, as gifts you have given to us to steward well. Please help us to be an example in the world of how to live righteously. Help us to be an example to our children and to teach them your ways. Lord, help us to steward this life well for your name's sake. In Jesus' name, amen.

[Jennifer] Amen.

[Millsaps] Amen.

[Aaron] All right, so hey, we just thank everyone that's been listening to this interview. We hope you were blessed by it. We pray that you have some things to talk about as a couple, and this is episode seven in our 16-part series, and so we look forward to having you over the next episodes. See you next week.

[Aaron] Did you enjoy today's show? If you did, it would mean the world to us if you could leave us a review on iTunes. Also, if you're interested, you can find many more encouraging stories and resources at marriageaftergod.com, and let us help you cultivate an extraordinary marriage.

A quick update on our book launch, pre-order gifts, and why we want to change the world with our marriages.

This is a quick bonus update from the middle of our Marriage After God interview series. We're about seven interviews in, and we'll return to our normal programming after our book, Marriage After God, launches on June 4th. We share the gifts you get when you pre-order, including a live webcast and 52 date night conversation starters, and we read endorsements from Jeremy and Audrey Roloff, Jefferson and Elizabeth Bethke, and Dr. Juli Slattery. We also share about the Movement Starters page we're building, and we ask you to share your favorite episodes on Instagram and to pray for the book. We want to change the world with our marriages.

About Aaron & Jennifer Smith

Aaron and Jennifer Smith are the founders of Marriage After God and authors of Husband After God, Wife After God, and Marriage After God. Married since 2007 and raising six children in Bend, Oregon, they started Husband Revolution and Unveiled Wife to share what God was teaching them, not from a place of having it figured out, but as fellow travelers pointing couples back to Jesus.

In This Episode

Series update — where we are in the Marriage After God interview series

Book launch — Marriage After God releases June 4th

Pre-order gifts — a live webcast and 52 date night conversation starters

Endorsements — words from Jeremy and Audrey Roloff, Jefferson and Elizabeth Bethke, and Dr. Juli Slattery

The movement — a Movement Starters page for couples who want to join in

How you can help — share your favorite episodes on Instagram and pray for the book

Resources from This Episode

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