What is the Jeffrey Epstein story, and what does it mean? Just asking questions.

Tracey has been attacked and on the attack, and you'll hear him air his many grievances with other journalists, lawyers, and politicians in this conversation, including Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R–Ga.), whom he calls out as his "enemy" because she instructed police to remove him from an Epstein-related press conference after he asked a question about an accusers' credibility in Washington D.C. this week.  

The goal of this episode was to move beyond the personality clashes and egos and wild speculation and drill down into what it is we actually know and don't know about Jeffrey Epstein. But as we talked, it became clear that this kind of detached analysis just wasn't going to be possible, that the egos and the clashes and the agendas remain intricately tied up with how this story has unfolded. The incentives faced by establishment journalists, podcasters, accusers, and politicians have shaped this story and our understanding of it, mostly for the worse. 

But in the marketplace of ideas, there is also a countervailing incentive to move against the herd and correct the record. And maybe a turbulent and confrontational personality like Michael Tracey–who admits in this interview that he's "wired differently"–was exactly what was needed to break taboos, ask uncomfortable questions, and push for real disclosure about the nature of the story that has loomed over American politics for at least a decade.

Regardless of how one feels about Tracey's tone or the soundness of his analysis, anyone who purports to care about this story should at least engage with the questions he's asking and start asking their own questions about what the Epstein story really means.

This conversation has been edited for time and clarity.

• Producer: John Osterhoudt

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