In this episode, Jonathan shares his inspiring journey from a non-athletic background to becoming an ultra-runner. He discusses the role of mindfulness, the motivation behind setting ambitious goals, and the lessons learned from challenging ultra races. As he prepares for the upcoming Marathon des Sables, Jonathan delves into the physical and mental demands of endurance sports, highlighting the importance of training consistency, hydration, and embracing running as a lifestyle.
The conversation also explores how pushing past perceived limits fosters personal growth and the need to disconnect from external pressures to focus on individual progress. Whether you’re a seasoned athlete or just starting out, Jonathan’s story offers valuable insights into resilience and self-discovery through running.
Episode Highlights:
- From Struggles to Passion
Jonathan’s first run was far from glamorous—it was “horrible.” Yet, through persistence and curiosity, he discovered a deep passion for running, proving that initial struggles can be the foundation of long-term success and fulfillment. - Mindfulness in Motion
Jonathan shares how running serves as a mindful practice, grounding him in the present moment. Whether it's the rhythmic sound of his footsteps or the serene landscapes he passes, running has become his way of reconnecting with himself and the world around him. - Mental Resilience in Ultra Running
Ultra-marathons test not only the body but also the mind. Jonathan emphasizes the importance of mental resilience, especially when tackling extreme conditions like heat and challenging terrains. Staying present and focused has been his key to pushing through physical discomfort. - The Power of Goal Setting
From 3km to 100km, Jonathan’s journey illustrates the transformative power of setting and achieving goals. Each milestone brought personal growth, revealing new levels of potential he hadn’t realized existed. - Support and Community
During tough moments, support from friends has been a vital motivator for Jonathan. This connection underscores the role of community in navigating challenges, both in running and life. - Lessons from the Marathon des Sables
As Jonathan prepares for the infamous Marathon des Sables, he highlights the necessity of preparation, self-sufficiency, and body awareness. Running in sand, much like snow, requires adaptation and an understanding of one's limits. - Pushing Beyond Comfort
Jonathan believes that uncomfortability often leads to growth. By stepping outside of his comfort zone, he has discovered unexpected personal transformations and a deeper sense of what feels right in his heart. - Trusting the Process
For Jonathan, the training is what truly counts. Each step, breath, and moment of preparation informs not only his performance but also his mindset, reminding us to focus on our capabilities and tune out external pressures. - Learning to Listen to the Body
Through his journey, Jonathan has become more attuned to his body’s signals—knowing when he’s reached his halfway point by how he feels or recognizing when he needs to prioritize self-care. - Finding Joy in the Conversation
Jonathan’s enthusiasm for sharing his experiences reflects the joy he finds in running and personal growth. His story is a testament to the transformative power of following what feels right in both body and spirit.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Movement and Running
02:54 Jonathan's Journey to Ultra-Distance Running
05:47 The Transition from Casual to Competitive Running
09:07 Setting Goals and Finding Motivation
12:03 Mental Strategies for Endurance Running
14:53 Overcoming Challenges During Races
18:11 The Importance of Mindfulness in Running
21:04 Preparing for Future Challenges
25:53 The Challenge of Ultra Running in Extreme Conditions
30:45 Pushing Beyond Perceived Limits
35:35 The Balance Between Comfort and Challenge
42:20 Creating a Lifestyle of Movement and Prioritization
Links and Resources:
- Connect with Jonathan
- Follow his runs on Strava
- Learn more about Marathon Des Sables
Episode Transcript:
Ana Maia Marques - Founder Movement is My Constant (00:02.403)
Welcome to Movement is My Constant. This is the podcast for breaking stagnation patterns. Through interviews with movement researchers, I seek inspiration in their experience and encourage you to stay curious, to explore movement with awareness, knowing that the body contains the intelligence to make decisions and communicate with grace. Enjoy this space. My name is Anna and I'm your host today.
Ana Maia Marques - Founder Movement is My Constant (00:38.35)
I think many of us lose or at least forget what we're actually capable of. We forget that we can push beyond the sort of comfort limits.
Ana Maia Marques - Founder Movement is My Constant (00:59.724)
My guest today is Jonathan Forrest. To describe Jonathan's love for running would be like trying to describe outer space to a dog. He thrives in it, loves every second and is proudly 100 % addicted. But it wasn't always that way. Growing up, he had zero interest in anything even remotely exercise-related. While he has been running almost every day for six years straight now, it is only recently that he discovered his passion for ultra-distance running.
In the past six months alone, he has completed over five races, all over 100 kilometers in distance, and is nowadays constantly on the hunt for the next challenge. Hi, Jonathan. Welcome to Movement is My Confidence. Thanks, it's to be here. So today I want to know about your experience with running, your experience not just with running, but you normally share really interesting posts.
real, especially from your Instagram account where I started seeing a lot of your content. And it was really interesting to see how you share the moment of running. You create this reflections, you know, running in the rain. I love those ones. Like it really puts the perspective or how you feel also when you're more vulnerable on those moments where we are maybe tired or even injured. Like the one that you had, you were running the coast of Portugal and you you had to stop.
And I find that very interesting also to share because we usually focus too much on the winnings, right? Like you win competitions or you make your goal, which is super important, but also the day-to-day aspects of running. find it really cool. And me myself also run, I don't run as long, I run shorter distances, but I love it. I can share the love and it's nice to see how one does talk about it as like a direct experience.
Pretty cool. Very mindful approach. yeah, it's really a delight to have you on the show. So thank you so much for joining me. I'm just excited to get into it. So many, like you said, highs and lows to talk about. So exactly. Let's just get into it. All right. So I think what I wanted to know first is why running? Why do you run? That's a big one. mean, I run for many reasons. Like I've been running for now close to six years, almost every single day.
Ana Maia Marques - Founder Movement is My Constant (03:24.579)
Growing up, was never the sort of athletic person, never the person to join the cool football people in high school, for example, or like elementary school. I was very comfortable in front of the computer, just playing games with my online friends, some of which I knew in real life, some of which I didn't. But that was my happy place. Like I didn't want to move. But luckily, both my parents...
used to be and still are very, very active. Like my dad has always been very much into like lifting super heavy weights at the gym. Like, would say competition level, like very into it. And the mom has always been very into sort of more endurance kind of sports. Like I think it's called orienteering in English. Orienteering? Yeah, orienteering. What is it about exactly? Because I don't think I know that word. It's running, but...
You have to follow a specific map and find like kind of checkpoints and then you stamp this card you have. The goal of orienteering is to find all those different stamps in as short time as possible. This kind of navigation mixed with running. Super fun. Very cool. She's always been very into that and obviously runs a lot because of it. One day she sort of just asked me, hey Jonathan, do you want to go running?
And I was sitting in front of the computer in a middle of an intense match, probably close to either winning or losing, but very much into it. And I said, no, no, no, no, go away, mom. No, I don't want to run. I'm happy here. But she kept asking. She kept asking like over and over and over. And eventually, I don't remember why, but for some reason I said yes, eventually. So we went together for a run and it was.
Horrible. never again. Why would I go for a run again? It's a borderline torture. Oh my goodness. I thought you were going to say it was a life-changing experience. No, no, no, no, Oh my goodness. Maybe in a negative way, but not positive. Oh my goodness. Wow. Okay. How long do you remember? What did you do on that run? I don't remember how far it was, but I...
Ana Maia Marques - Founder Movement is My Constant (05:47.78)
Remember like the specific kind of courses that I did in the very beginning. The shortest one was three kilometers and like the first time running, I wasn't able to do that. I imagine maybe a kilometer was probably like the first run. Absolutely exhausted, hated it, felt miserable. But for whatever reason, I went out for another run and another one, and another one, and another one, and another one. And it's sort of just kind of.
continued and I remember so well, like when I first managed to run that three kilometer course, had quite a lot of elevation as well. Trail style, me living in the middle of the countryside in Northern Sweden. like proper nature. That feeling of finally being able to run three kilometers was mind blowing. Wow, I can do this.
So for some time, was the sort of distance that I was kind of like optimizing the time on them, trying to do it as fast as possible. But as I continued, felt stronger, of course. I got more in shape. I lost some weight. I wasn't necessarily like obese or anything when I was growing up, but definitely overweight wasn't healthy. My body felt better. I got healthier and it went from three kilometers to five kilometers to 10 kilometers.
to eventually 20 kilometers, like, wow, half a marathon. Crazy. How long did that take between those 3K? I mean, you were young, so, you know, it's like a machine. You're still very young. But how long did it take you? I think it took a pretty long time still. Maybe like going from zero to like three kilometers. I imagine a couple of months. This is me casting from the top of my head. Like I actually have an auction.
But going from like zero to 20 kilometers that I know to maybe like a year, two years, close to two years, say. There's so many things that you have to build up both physically and mentally to go from zero to something. It's new to the body, it's new to the mind, like building up joints and some parts of the body needs to be strengthened to do it in a healthy way. But I remember finally being able to do that distance and I felt it.
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incredible. I'm on top of the world. That's amazing. For some time, I stayed at that distance. I was sort of this like family hero. I was running more and longer and faster than my parents. was like, wow, oh my God, incredible. Unstoppable. I think it sort of stayed at that distance for quite a long time. Probably up until
couple of years later. like the first time I went running, I think I was 15 and then it stayed at the half marathon distance until maybe I was 20, 21 when I started thinking, maybe I could give marathon a shot. Like maybe that's possible. And I did. And I was able to do that marathon distance eventually, but it's kind of interesting because I still don't have any sort of
like specific memory of doing a marathon distance for the first time. It was never this sort of like wow moment. It's just sort of something I did. Like I'm thinking about it now and before recording this as well. I have zero recollection of doing a marathon distance like for the first time. Wow. Which is kind of interesting. And I think that is because
As I progressed from like half marathon to marathon to now doing also 200 kilometer races. Yeah, we'll get there. That's a long story. Up until the point that I did my first 100 mile race, running these like ultra distances was just sort of something that I did for whatever reason. It wasn't part of a race, wasn't part of any organized events. It was just something that I figured.
Hey, I feel like I can do it. So let's try. And most of the time I succeeded. didn't share it that much, like with friends, family. Definitely didn't share it on social media or anything. It was just my happy place. And that's the way it stayed for the longest, longest time. Actually up until early this year when I started doing races more, taking racism, ultra running more seriously. What changed for you two all of the sudden?
Ana Maia Marques - Founder Movement is My Constant (10:35.602)
Like you were saying, this was my happy place, like the 20K, it's that, you know, I'm running and I'm exploring and I'm playing. And now something changed in you that you said, okay. Yeah, I definitely still have running. Like running is still my happy place for sure. Like no, question about it. But there is that other aspect added to it to make it make sense. think go back to late last year, so 2023.
When a friend of mine who have done several ultra races before, he asked me, hey Jonathan, you seem to be good at running. I think you should sign up for a hundred mile race. Good friend. Yeah, great friend. He asked me that in September, about six months prior to that hundred mile race, which was in May of this year. Actually more than six months, that's what.
Seven, eight, long time at least like planted to train. And that made me switch something in my head. For the first time ever, I had a goal with my running. Like I had a distance that I needed to complete. That was way beyond what I least thought I was capable of. So like I put in the time, effort, energy to be as fit as possible, as fit as I had ever been before.
And so I think that was like the first thing that changed in me having a goal at all. like I said, running was just this kind of fun thing I did. I didn't have much of a goal with it other than to feel good. That was the first part of the thing that clicked in my head. The second part was when I did the race itself. I did complete it. was a lot of ups and downs along the way. It's a story in itself. But just like kind of...
skipping past that for now, least completing the race really clicked something in me. Like, shit, I can run for, it took me close to 35 hours. I can stay moving, running for 35 hours straight and over 6,000 meters of elevation combined positive and negative and yeah, a hundred miles, so 165 kilometers. But.
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I actually got lost, it ended up being 175 level 2s. So I did longer than I needed. But just like sort of completing that really lit the fire in me. Like, my God, I can do this. I'm addicted. Like I want to experience this again. Yeah. That's incredible. It's an incredible story. I'm hearing your words and I hope our listeners will also tune into this.
Maybe for some of us who have had, you know, these challenges, like for me, I've had different challenges. Like when I did my first 20 K trail run here in Sintra, I realized, my gosh, I can't do it actually, you know? And I thought never. And the kind of reminder you're bringing now into the conversation of you do need to set up those goals so you can understand that you're actually are able.
And I imagine that, you know, you do need to organize yourself in a way so that you are actually able to. So perhaps aspects of this you can share, like how do you keep moving during 160 K, 35 hours, no sleep, I suppose, or maybe like 10 minute pause or something. No. Okay. Yeah. How do you manage your energy like that? I'm still trying to figure it out.
how I did and how I keep doing it. But that race definitely tested me in so many ways, like both physically and mentally. First of all, being at the start line of a hundred mile race, insane, doesn't make any sense. Like there's no way to wrap my head around what I have ahead of me. Like there's no way to know. And especially when it's a trail race.
every single trail race, even if it's the same distance, will be completely unique. So yeah, I was at the starting line there. I knew that the weather conditions were going to be horrible the entire time. And they were. The coldest point was four degrees Celsius and it was raining the entire time. Not even a break of any sunshine or anything. It was just constant rain, so soaked from the beginning to end.
Ana Maia Marques - Founder Movement is My Constant (15:21.165)
I mean, there's many aspects, but if I would boil it down to something more kind of tangible, there's two parts to completing something like that for me. One being just stay moving. There's no point to stopping, especially when it's during conditions like I had the constant rain and very cold temperatures. If I stopped and my body will start cooling down, my joints will like start freezing up. It's going to be hard to get going again. Gonna have more pains, which will...
make it hard physically, but also mentally to kind of get past that hurdle. So just stay moving really is like number one. And then second, don't think too much. There's no point to thinking like, my God, I got 70 miles left. I got 50 miles left. got 30 miles left. Like it doesn't matter. All that matters is am I able to take another step? If the answer is yes, then okay, take another step. And if the answer is no, then.
and stuff, but let the body do its thing. I don't allow any sort of thinking about, I able to do this or like how am I going complete this insane thing? I focus so much on being mindful and just kind of clearing my head, staying in the moment, observing my surroundings as much as possible, soaking in the moment.
Those are the two main things because there's no secret formula. Of course you got to be super fit and like your body needs to be adjusted to those type of conditions. That's not to be overlooked, of course. But even the fitness person, just because you're physically in good shape doesn't mean that you're able to complete something like this because it's so much about what's in here. I remember very clearly having several sort of dipping points.
And I've noticed now after having done several, like this ultra distances, that for me, I typically have a pretty low mental point somewhere halfway along those distances. long distance, mean like the 160 K or so. anything above like a hundred kilometers. I start having this moment of doubt. let's say I'm in the middle of a hundred kilometers or more race after 50 kilometers. That's sort of the point where.
Ana Maia Marques - Founder Movement is My Constant (17:42.809)
After 50 kilometers, I start feeling like the kind of lack of energy, maybe want to like sit down, feeling the lack of calories, whatever. Anything up until that point, I feel pretty good mentally and physically. So that's the first point of challenge. That's when the race really starts. Right. What do you do in that moment? Yeah. So I had those low moments and during that 100 mile race, I...
was this close to quitting. Like I was ready to throw in the towel and ask, no, I'm going home. Because I had this pain in my knee. remembered having that same pain previously in normal, just everyday sort of running. And I remembered how that had stopped me from doing daily runs before. And I think that's really kind of put something in my brain. fuck, like I know I can't do this.
I can't have this pain now. Like I know it's a stop me from doing a simple 10 K daily run before. So how am going to do another, I don't know, 24 hours. So at that point I called my girlfriend who I had a crew of friends. Yeah. So I called my girlfriend explaining the situation. Like I got this knee thing and it's messing with me. And she was saying, you know, continue like take another hour to hours to see how it feels if it's the same.
Okay, we'll talk again, but like if it gets better, it's better. So that's what I did. I continued, but even though we said those things on the phone mentally, I had already given up. was, I was just sort of waiting until the next checkpoint. So I was really screwed, but luckily, and I still give this person so much credit. Luckily, the guy, Charlie is his name, who made me sign up for this race in the first place. He was part of the
people who was there to support me. And just randomly, I think two, three hours after I had that phone call, he was waiting along the route to just like walk around with me for a couple of kilometers. And he didn't know about my mental state at that point. was just complete luck for me. He's a unique individual in the best way possible. There's just something about that.
Ana Maia Marques - Founder Movement is My Constant (20:07.289)
conversation, that moment that's got me so fired up again. I've been thinking about it so many times since and I can't put a finger on like what happened. But there's just something in him, in his energy that got me fired up again and like, okay, let's go. Part of it I think is because he has done these distances before. It's like he knows what I'm going through. But yeah, after that conversation, I was ready to go.
This is interesting because there's a few things here that can really make the difference. So I don't know if you want to share any of his words or the type of motivation he told you, how that shifts your brain into, okay, I'm fired up, you know, because you were really in a low point, like your ego, like in the sense of you can't do this was destroying your possibility of achievement. And then here it comes, your friend out of the blue, so to speak. What did he say or something like that, that you'd like to share?
Of course I've been thinking about that moment like many times over since. And what I've come to realize is that he didn't say anything special. That's the thing. We were mostly sort of just kind of talking about like the current moments. Sort of just like, the surroundings are pretty cool. Like the nature is kind of nice. He knew that like course pretty well, because it's an organizer that he had done before. So he was saying like, yeah, in a couple of kilometers, it's going to be a lot of,
and down, so like then you'll have some flats and kind of refocusing on the fact and not thinking too much about what they had. It's like, hey, we are here right now. These are the facts and that's it. There was no motivational speech. was no like, my God, you got this, not, let's go, let's go, let's go. No, just focus on what's now here being fully present.
I think that was the key for me. And that's a mantra that I use a lot now while meditating. And this mantra that I say, I am here and this is now. And it's over and over. Yeah. That's an essential part of returning to presence. And it's an essential part of, you know, using mindfulness for our daily life, for instance, practicing mindfulness in our daily life. I love that it reminds me of how I do it. I always think of
Ana Maia Marques - Founder Movement is My Constant (22:27.929)
There's this step and then there's that step and then there's that step and that's how you build your running. You can bring a lot of presence, right? I I don't know what happens in your body, for instance, when you're focused on that fact, what changes? Do you want to explore that? So yeah, I was thinking about it on today's run. We have so much distractions around us every single day, all the time. Even now while recording, there's...
hundred different things that could potentially distract me. There was just now the fire truck, I think it was outside and I hid my phone because even you're seeing my phone here on the table is for me distracting. have this like, the microphone is connected to this little thing on my computer that's making a little bar go up and down. Like there's so much distractions all the time. And I genuinely believe that most people don't actually have
a single moment throughout the day where there is like zero distractions, where there is full focus on the present, on the now. That's not a jab at anyone else. That's just like sort of a reality of the world we're living in. And so for me, running provides such a good opportunity in space to take a moment and really focus in on what matters and what is actually. Because I could be worrying about
whatever I have planned tomorrow, I could be worrying about finance issues. can worry about your finances. If your relationship troubles, you can worry about your relationship. There's so many things to worry about and think about. And rarely do we soak in the moment. Like how am I feeling now? I'm feeling great. Like right now I'm feeling calm. I'm feeling good. And so whatever is next after this or whatever was before this doesn't matter. So running provides such a great space to...
hone in on these things. It's beautiful to feel how you're tapping into this sense of presence when we are running the step-by-step approach. I love it. And you're absolutely right. When we are so much in our thoughts or not so much in our thoughts, but projecting what's coming ahead, there's a lot of this worry that becomes a reality. And when that becomes a reality, we lose track of, okay, but what is actually physically real?
Ana Maia Marques - Founder Movement is My Constant (24:55.098)
What am I sensing that can tell me this is real? Where I am is real. What I'm touching is real. And the running it sounds that you combine this challenge, you're going to face another challenge pretty soon, I guess. Well, soon as in, you have to prepare up for it. And it's that, it's like this big challenge. can be a challenge for, it can be less kilometers for other people. still a challenge. It's physically draining. It's something out of our
comfort zone, even if we train a lot for it. And then we have to know, but I chose this obviously, and I am here in this right moment. And every step will inform choices, whether I continue, whether I should stop, whether I need to refuel to rest, et cetera, and so on. So let's talk about that upcoming big challenge you have, the Marathon des Sables. Can you tell our listeners what it is? It's called the MDS Legendary, it's shorter version.
It's a 250 kilometer race through the desert in Morocco. It's a staged race over the course of, I believe it's five days. I need to know that before I do it, I think it's five days. Otherwise you would go in one go. know, Jonathan. So the first four days you do around 50 kilometers per day. Even if you feel like you can do more, you can't. It's like you start and finish. Then the last day.
You do about a hundred kilometers in one go. It's fully self-sufficient. The only thing the race organizers provide is attempts to sleep in and water rationing. So seven liters of water per day, but food, equipment, change of clothing, whatever else you need, you need to bring. So you can just imagine five days, we're going to be running most of it.
And so the desert, you're going to need a lot of calories or I'm going to need a lot of calories. I'm thinking five days, probably at least 30,000 calories. And that's something I need to carry from start to finish from start to finish. exactly. So like the first day will be pretty heavy probably. And the second day will be slightly like, I see that some eating and so on, but it's going to be challenge. Although interestingly, I feel very calm and confident about it.
Ana Maia Marques - Founder Movement is My Constant (27:21.408)
I don't know if it's a fake false confidence, but because I did this thing semi-recently where I attempted to run through the entire length of Portugal from top to bottom, which is about 900 kilometers. I didn't make it to full distance, but I still made it about halfway. did believe it was 400 kilometers total. That was pretty much the same kind of setup as this base that I'm doing next year.
Since I did about 50 kilometers per day and the last day I actually did 115 kilometers. Of course, it's not in the same kind of extreme conditions. It's not through the desert, it's some comfortable pavement. But just in terms of distance, I feel very comfortable. The reason I signed up for the race is because I know personally, I struggle a lot with the heat. I'm adjusted to heat coming from Northern. So you just went to the desert. Yeah.
Okay, this is interesting. Okay. So your body doesn't adjust to the heat yet. I'm also not happy with running with heat to be fairly honest. And I'm talking Portugal heat. But what type of warm conditions will you find there? Because I guess there will be a bit drier. So not so humid as here in Portugal. In terms of conditions, the two biggest challenges will be the heat of course, and the sand.
I mean, I'm from Northern Sweden, so like I know what it's like to run in snow, which I imagine least thick snow to be kind of similar to run in sand in the sense that like you take two steps forward and you kind of slide back one step. So like there's a lot of extra work, but the heat it's going to be up to, according to the organizers, it goes up to 45 Celsius at the peak. That's insane. A lot, a lot, lot. I struggle.
Like 25, 30. But like I'm challenged. I know like from doing more races now, I'm learning better and better to kind of like take care of my body during these races, what I actually need. And I realized that generally I am terrible at drinking enough. I usually don't get enough liquids in. So that's going to be my main focus. I sweat a lot. I'm a sweaty boy.
Ana Maia Marques - Founder Movement is My Constant (29:47.604)
I did this sweat test, which I absolutely recommend anyone to do. It's basically a test to see how much you sweat over a specific period of time in your specific conditions. And super simple. mean, I'm sure you can do it more professionally, but the way I did it was just I weighed myself before I run and made sure to not eat or drink anything during the run. And then as soon as I get back home, I weigh myself again. Whatever the weight difference is, that's...
the amount that you lose in water. It's probably not super accurate, it gives you sense at least. But it can get accurate if you do it multiple times. Yeah. Jonathan, I am curious just to kind of frame this into one of the topics that I wanted to talk also with you about is like the limits. You have also a talk between the perceived limit and the real limit. And I'd like to hear about your experience with that.
I guess it ties again with what we talked about, you the mental rumination of worry and maybe believing we're not capable of. But then there's this aspect of when we push our limits, right? When do you know that, you know, the limit is real and you have to maybe stop or change? Or when do you know that, you know, no, I'm just trying to convince myself. How is your experience around the... So going back like a couple of years, I used to be training free diving, just diving.
that without tubes. During the training for freediving, I was taught something that I still apply in basically everything I do. And it's that when I am underwater, maybe far away from the surface and I start to feel like I need more oxygen, I need to breathe, I'm running out of air. When that feeling comes, that's when I've reached about the middle point, like the halfway point of the capacity that I actually have.
So have double the amount of oxygen left in me, but my body is telling me that I should go up. And I apply that in so many different things because I realized that it's true. During the training, I trusted the teacher and the coach and stayed underwater, even though my body was telling me to, hey, you don't have any air left. But sure enough, I didn't die. I'm still here. So like, obviously I did have a lot of air left.
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Okay. So applying that to running, example, reaching that point that I mentioned earlier, like sort of halfway through the races where I start to have like a mental dip. I would say that's an equivalent to the free diving halfway point in the sense that that's when the body starts to feel like, you know, I'm tired, like I should rest to recover properly and so on.
The reality is that there's so much view left in it. You keep going. And I think it's kind of interesting to break down because most of us will never find our true potential in terms of like what we're capable to do physically. Our current lifestyle, and I say our current lifestyle in the sense of the world, is so focused on comfort. Everything is focused on convenience and things being as fast and
efficient, humanly possible. I can tap on my phone and get food to the door in a couple of minutes. If I need to go somewhere, I also tap on my phone and the car will arrive outside the door. And I can work from my computer here and somehow money ends up in my bank. everything's so efficient. Everything's so easy. And I think many of us lose or at least forget what we're actually capable of.
We forget that we can push beyond the sort of comfort limits. think many, as soon as it gets a little bit uncomfortable, like maybe I'm a little bit tired. I want to sit down. I'm thirsty. I'm hungry. Whatever. We give up. like, no, you know, I can't do this. Whatever it is, it doesn't even have to be running. be anything in your daily life. As soon as these feelings start, you're like immediately.
it. Like, okay, stop, stop, stop, stop. We need to do whatever it is that brings comfort. But the reality is that the way I see it is that it's more or less sort of just a survival mechanism in us. But of course, just from an evolutionary, like biological standpoint, our body wants to be comfortable. Like if we have food available, we really want to eat.
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The body doesn't know that we have a fridge that's more or less infinite and a grocery store a couple blocks away. All the body knows is that, my God, there's food. We need to consume it while we still have it. Okay, let's go. It's about reminding yourself that, hey, no, like food will always be available. I have a bed. I can access these things whenever I want. So even though it's uncomfortable right now, doesn't mean that I have to stop. Doesn't mean that I'm...
done, like I used all my energy in my body. There's so much more beyond that uncomfortable limits, whatever you want to call it. It's a shame. It makes me kind of sad in a way that so many won't discover what's beyond that limit because it's at the end of the day, what each of us are capable of as individuals. And that's really what has made me get so hooked on ultra running.
Cause it really, really tests your limits. goes well beyond that uncomfortability limits. Yeah, there you have it. My friends always say, oh, you always have this punchline. There you have it. When I want to record. There you have it. It just comes out. It's interesting to hear about this perceived limits, how it's connected to our lifestyle. I also reflect about it and it's true. Running does give you, and maybe other people that do other sports will, you know.
say that their sports will give them this. But I feel that running gives you so much freedom, the step-by-step, also the elements you can feel on your body, the connection with nature. And that is probably at the extreme opposite of comfort, like in our home or having the food available. It does give you this sense of like, what is going on here? What is wrong right now that we feel that we need to feel safe? We need to feel
abundant, we need to have our own things and we are losing touch with environment obviously and with others. So it's a very interesting way to see the reason that you're pushing your limits is to show you safety is a construct. It's true what you said about evolution. Safety is for us a signal saying, everything is okay and good and you need the body doesn't recognize when it's going to end, guess, or that you can still access more I mean.
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But yeah, it's quite something. I feel the same. feel like we're too comfortable. And the problem with comfort is that we lose curiosity. And my podcast is all about curiosity. I'm curious about the people, but I also enjoy listening to guests like you that are trying to discover their own, you know, practices and sports. What is going on here? How can I shift? What can I do differently? Right? There's many parts to why I ultra running, but one of them is to sort of prove to myself that I'm not bound to
the comfort that I have available. Like sure, I definitely appreciate having a roof over my head and a full fridge and a comfortable bed. Like I love these things, but I'm not bound by them. I'm not forced to have this in my life. Like I will survive without it. And for the longest time, up until very recently, ultra running for me was all about finding my breaking point, both physically and mentally. Like how far can I...
push my body until my legs like literally give out underneath me and I'm mentally just like not there, laying in a fetal position, crying on the floor. Generally, like I wanted to find that point. How far can I go until it happens? I can say that so far I haven't been laying in a fetal position on the floor. But what I've discovered is that I've found a different kind of breaking point.
What I thought I would find was what I just described, like on my legs it doesn't work anymore. But what I realized is that at least right now, my breaking points are actually like, for example, my immune system, which is what happened most recently on my run through Portugal. My body felt fine. My legs felt, to be completely honest, absolutely amazing. Like I hadn't even been running at all. What did fail me was my immune system. I got a cold, I got issues with my throat.
So like these sort of things that combined with some other things made me realize that I did find my breaking points. Maybe I did. It's not what I expected, but it probably is one sort of breaking point. And ever since I realized that, I've sort of shifted my mindset from finding a breaking point and almost kind of like in a way, self torturing myself through running. Now it's purely about.
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Enjoyment again. Sure. Of course. I appreciate the moments of pain in my body while running because it kind of proves that I can push through pain. doesn't stop me. But for the most part, it's just about the enjoyment of like being in that moment, like we talked about before and taking in the surroundings and just sort of embracing the now. For me, like going back to what we said moments ago.
how we're losing touch with Mother Earth and nature. I really strongly feel that the way we're going currently is not in a good direction. And I'm not even talking about like politically, it's just like sort of evolution point of view. We're going further and further away from nature, from the natural elements. Like the way we evolved as humans, as creatures, as animals. We are supposed to be...
laying under a tree and cooking our food over an open fire after spending the whole day trying to hunt a deer with a bow and arrow. That's the way we evolved to be. Now, of course, that doesn't mean that we have to go to that of an extreme, but that is from a biological standpoint what we are made for. And so always being fed with social media or Netflix.
Like I'm guilty myself of having three screens in front of me, all with different things at them all at once. And like I do these things, but I'm also fully aware of how, for lack of a better word, how fucked that is. there's nothing good about it. I mean, it's a balance we must find also. It's true. live in this society, right? I find that these practices of awareness and you know,
including mindfulness in everything we do. It does bring us closer to sort of a nature. I like to call it evolution as well, because I find there's technological evolution and then there's a human evolution, which is not only the thinking, but now moving more into the human centric, you know, type of approach and living and application in life. And I find that awareness, mindfulness really help us.
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to come closer to that. And it's true. We have to shift our thinking. We have to become aware. OK, this is a reality. What can I do with it? Am I willing to change anything in my life to this? I think we have to be active agents. Yeah. Yeah. Most of us probably have a very busy day today. We have our job. have our family. So many things to keep track of. And so finding time to go for a run or go to gym, whatever, like connect with the sort of primal side of us.
It can be tricky. Like it's hard to find that time, but I'd say it comes down to priorities. mean, of course we have certain things that we just sort of unnegotiably have to do, but many things can be pushed around and most of us have at least 20 minutes, half an hour, maybe even an hour to spend on exercise, for example. Now I have this business I've built and also I'm very free in terms of how I spend my time.
And it's a very fortunate situation, but that wasn't always the case. That's relatively recently. So before I had this, I was doing my typical like 95 job, know, had very limited time, but I made exercise a priority. was part of those annoying people who was up at 5 AM working out. So annoying. But that was just like when I had time to do it and I made exercise.
And I've always had exercise be a priority of my life. maybe I didn't have hours and hours of time to do it, but at least I got something done. It's uncomfortable, but uncomfortability leads often to very good things. Yes, completely agree. So that kind of puts us closer to my last topic. I would like to ask you if you would like to share some...
tips because now you are really touching upon, you know, how you create these priorities. So indeed like tips, how do you create, can be for either the beginner, but it could also be for someone who is maybe on that edge of, know, I'm already running, but I want to, you know, set it up. Tips for consistency or creating priorities, but also making this a lifestyle. I personally run
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as a lifestyle, I don't run because you know, now I'm feeling great and I want that competition. I imagine myself running really until old age. So yeah, tips you might have, principles you like to apply. Well, like one thing, what I just said moments ago, like making it priority for sure, because we all have 24 hours in a day. And the only difference is how we spell it. I'm just going to repeat myself, but like we have a couple of things that we have to do, but then we have some things that we
would like to do. And those are often the ones that kind of are pushed to the side and maybe doesn't even get done at all. So it's about like finding what feels right in the heart. What makes you happy? As cliche, kind of, that sounds like what makes you happy? Simple. We all know what makes us happy. But it's probably pushed away a little bit.
So make that a priority, like find time for it. Don't even find time for it, make time for it. Like say no to some social events, say no to friends, whatever. And say that, hey, no, I actually don't have time because I'm gonna go for a run. I say no all the time, less now, but used to at least when I'm like in very hard kind of training cycles for races. Say no all the time to like evening events, because I need to be in bed at nine. Like that doesn't matter.
I need to sleep. There's no way I'm going to be able to do these things that make me happy. Anyone that judges someone prioritizing what makes themself happy. I don't even know what to say about that. Like cut them out. They do not matter in your That's not a good person. Yeah, exactly. So that's one thing. Absolutely. Second thing I want to say is more for people just getting started with running and exercise in general is that it doesn't matter what you see online on social media, friends, family, whatever.
Because again, there's so much distractions like input from third party sources that you have no control over or at least limited control over. Cut out the noise. Focus on, okay, I am able to walk for one kilometer. Nice. Amazing. Congrats. Like keep doing it. Keep going. I'm able to run five kilometer. Congrats. Like let's go. Just focus on what you're capable of and leave the outside noise.
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leave it behind. even for me, I'm very proud of the accomplishments in terms of running that I've done. I'm very proud of that. But there's always someone who is faster, stronger, better, can run further. And if I focus on that, I mean, I'm going to lose all motivation and a sense of self even. After I attempted the run through Portugal, I saw online someone who ran
Continuously, I think it was for a little bit over two weeks, 15 days. Insane. my gosh. Absolutely insane. I have no idea how they did it. It was on a track, like the conditions were good, but still, I two weeks running. No sleep? Yeah, sleep. I bet. No, I was like, what? Yeah, I mean, probably not full nights. I don't know exactly like what happened there, but that was the pitch, like the way they described it, two weeks running.
And like, I saw that right after not finishing my goal of running the entire length of Portugal since I only got halfway. So I was already like a little bit beaten down, like, you know, I didn't complete this thing that I set out to do. And then I see this guy who was doing it's continuously running for two weeks. mean, the natural response to that is like, my God, why am I even like trying? Like I should just give up, sit down, okay stop. Exactly. So that's really...
kind of show such a prime example of a moment where it really matters to shut out the outside noise. Yeah. it, it out. Focus on what you are able to do and be happy about it. That's all that matters. That's all that matters. It goes back to finding the reality, right? It's your reality, not something out there that has been established by someone else, of which we have no information about conditions and everything. So. On that also is, especially with trail running.
There's a couple of different official distances, right? There's the 31 kilometers, there's the Marathon distance, there's the 50, 100 and so on. While these are like templated distances, trail running is so unique in the sense that each course will be completely different. Even if it's the same course, the conditions will be different because the temperature might be different, might be different weathers, might be raining, so it's all muddy and whatever.
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There's so many kind of variables to it. So comparing even two hundred mile races against each other, that's not possible. You can't do that because they're most likely completely different. Sure, same distance, but that's the only thing they have in common. It's all unique. It's all unique. You're absolutely right. Well, my suggestion is that our listeners follow you.
Because we are now very curious to see, you know, how the marathon, the Sable, we're all cheering for you, obviously, but for everything that leads up to it. Right? I mean, it's more about the training and the preparation and then the event will be the event. Exactly. Yeah. I post daily on Instagram about my exercise and training and mindset, like what I've been talking about now. Yeah, the race is one thing, honestly, the training leading up to any race is the real challenge.
What requires consistency and being mindful, if anything, like when I was training for the hundred mile race, I was putting consistent 20 kilometer runs every single day over and over and over. was doing around 200 kilometers per week for some time there. That's a challenge. Running a hundred miles, that's also challenge, but the training is. The training is what counts. Yeah, exactly. So that's what I'm currently in. I'm getting back from my injury slowly, but ramping up. Okay. Well.
I wish you good luck there, success with your trainings. And I really enjoyed your conversation and you know, the thoughts behind an ultra runner. Thank you. Yeah, it's been great. I'm so happy to talk about this with you. Thank you so much.
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Thank you for listening today. If you'd like to know more about today's guest, check out the show notes and additionally, you will find any resources shared during the conversation. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to the show on your own Spotify account, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast shows. If you'd like to stay updated and educated on the benefits of movement, the researchers and their creative explorations, please subscribe to the newsletter at Movement is My Constant.
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