Mumbrellacast

Welcome to the Mumbrellacast, now completely created with AI, auto-tune, monosodium glutamate, agent orange, and Styrofoam.

This week, Prime Minister Anthony Albanese (or a very convincing robotic replacement) visited Sydney University where he announced he will establish an official Office of AI, which will be tasked with AI-related legislation, drafting new copyright protections, and basically saving the nation from digital invaders.

Elsewhere on the podcast, we discuss how and why the most-played song on Australian radio over the past few weeks was (reportedly) created using AI; Vinne Schifferstein Vidal joins us to argue that agencies should not be selling AI platforms as a point of difference; and the heated debate is back -- and has very little to do with AI.

We start the episode with Vinne's very solid argument that agencies are investing millions in AI platforms and marketing them as a competitive advantage … but there's a major hitch. She speaks with Hal Crawford about an issue that goes to the heart of agency strategy.

And we remain on the absolute cutting-edge with news that '80s pop star Madonna has released her latest album, and she's back on the top of the Australian charts!

But instead of one of her new tunes making waves, it's been a heavily AI-assisted dance cover of her 1989 hit Like A Prayer, released into the world by Brisbane DJ Josh Fawaz, that has captured the attention of Australian commercial radio. The belated 2026 answer to Madonna's prayer was blasted close to 2,000 times within a fortnight, and played more in that period than any other song released by human, robot, or animal.

The song's success, and its embrace by Australian radio, has caused quite the furor, with many angry torch-bearers calling for AI-created content to either be disclosed, completely banned, or something in-between

Lauren Joyce, who was previously the content boss at ARN, ignores all the controversy, and looks ahead to a future where AI-created songs will simply become another genre of music -- much like jazz, techno, rock, pop, or shoegaze-infused-dream-pop-plunderphonic-hauntology.

And even though we managed to sort out most of the AI issues facing the country during the first few minutes of this podcast, Anthony Albanese also threw around a few solutions this week. To quote our PM:

"Australian writers, musicians, artists and journalists must retain ownership and control of their work. Our laws will spell that out, plain as day."

Like most political speeches, it seemed declarative, but didn't offer too much of substance. Plus, don't our copyright laws already cover copyright? Anyway, we get right into all of that.

And to round out this bumper episode, we finally settle the old-age question: Can media companies be really good at more than one medium?

Recently we’ve seen audio network SCA and TV network Seven merge and then tussle for power at the top, Nine sold its talkback radio division and bought a bunch of billboards, and radio network ARN started hosting singles cruises, pop gigs, and short-lived Friday arvo knock-off drinks with Eddie, Karl, and caller seven from Rooty Hill. So, can it be done?

Tim and Hal battle it out primary-school-debate-style, a winner is declared, and next week should see some major media group mergers, or demergers -- depending on how convincing the respective arguments were. Happy listening!

Get the latest episodes here.

Podcast edit by Abe’s Audio.

Welcome to the latest episode of the Mumbrellacast, where we quiz the PM on his predilection for Aussie popettes.

Actually, we discuss Telstra's biggest PR disaster since the hazy, lazy days of 2018; look at Oztam's decision to take the official TV ratings measurement system to tender after a quarter-century with Nielsen; debate whether the NRL deal is worth the $5.3 billion being paid; and take a look at new commercials from Square, Mazda, and Mutti.

This week, Ben Willee from Spinach joins us, and we resist the urge to delve into why his initials contain more syllables than his entire name.

"Don't spin a story that you think will make us feel happy.”

That's Roy Morgan CEO Michele Levine's advice for Telstra's marketing folk, who failed to communicate promptly or properly after this week's catastrophic network outage.

For a few dystopic hours on Wednesday morning, phone and internet access was unavailable to 25 million Telstra-connected devices around the country, which meant that many small businesses couldn't process card payments, trains ground to a halt, cars were locked in garages that were locked behind gates, traffic lights failed, people couldn't Uber, Milkrun, or make prank triple-zero calls, and Duolingo streaks were absolutely decimated.

As Donald Trump sagely/stupidly pointed out a few weeks back, in the modern age "everything is computer". We all bemoan the control that Meta and Google wield in the information age, but Telstra are our real overlords, and they have been brainwashing us with catchy whistled Bee Gees tunes.

After all, you can't google Google without internet access ...

Speaking of internet access, Australia's TV ratings system has long been criticised for using outdated methodology in an increasingly data-rich world.

How is it that overseas tech giants know our blood types, religious beliefs, and what Spice Girl we prefer (Geri) from our search histories, yet Oztam (a joint venture between Ten, Seven, and Nine) can't get a realistic read on how many Australians watch Home and Away at 7pm?

Questions like this may be the reason Oztam is now looking for a new partner to drive its rating system, after 25 years with Nielsen. Legendary media analyst Steve Allen explains why this decision is long overdue.

Now, to sports news.

This week, the National Rugby League managed to squeeze an incredible $5.3 billion from Nine, Foxtel, and Sky NZ for the broadcast rights to the competition until 2034.

Mathematically speaking, this equates to "a long time" that the networks are on the hook, and with gambling advertising money possibly drying up -- if you think it could never happen, remember the NRL used to be called the Winfield Cup -- Tim Burrowes and BW debate whether or not the deal was worth it.

And to close out another bumper episode of the Mumbrellacast, we play some advertising, which is usually your cue to hit the 15-second skip button, but in this case the ads are part of the show.

We review the latest campaigns from Square (starring Naomi Watts), Mutti (starring Sam Kerr), and Mazda (starring a choir with Californian-cult vibes). Simple, yeah?

Okay, that's enough reading for you today - happy listening!

Get the latest episodes here.

Podcast edit by Abe’s Audio.

Welcome to the latest Mumbrellacast, where unfortunately Karl Stefanovic won't be joining us this week.

Instead, we'll make do with the freshest five-piece since Jackson 5: Abe Udy, Tim Burrowes, Eleanor Dickinson, Nathan Jolly, and Lauren Joyce.

If you were wondering why you kept tripping over discarded calculators on your way to work this week, it's because Tuesday marked the end of the financial year -- which means Mumbrella can reveal the winners and losers on the Unmade Index, a Tim Burrowes invention which tracks all the publicly listed media and marketing companies on the stock exchange, and cruelly bundles them into judgmental groups based solely on their performance over the year. Despicable! Anyway, we chat about that.

Tim Duggan co-founded pop culture website Junkee way back when Tiktok was still a Kesha song. This week, he fronted the National Press Club and took a club to the national press, arguing that the entire Australian media ecosystem needs to be protected with tax offsets, social media payments, AI royalties, and government ad money if it is ever going to move off the endangered list and onto the undangered list (not a direct quote).

And this week, former Kyle and Jackie O boss Duncan Campbell did a media tour to promote his new single "It Wasn't Me ft. Shaggy", appearing on the Game Changers Radio and the Quarter Hour podcasts where he spoke freely about his time as a professional Kyle-wrangler -- and distanced himself from the 10-year contract and the decision to network the show into Melbourne. Lauren was Duncan's successor and adds more insider-baseball context to some of his comments -- before putting on a pair of debating gloves and duking it out with a remote Hal Crawford in this week's heated debate (cue sting)!!!

Based on some of Duncan's comments about ARN management's tendency to handle Kyle with baby mitts, Hal and Lauren debate whether or not "on-air talent should be managed with a firm hand". Hal takes the affirmative, Lauren rebuts like the prodigious year-six third-speaker debating champ that she was/is, and everybody listening is the real winner.

Enjoy!

Welcome to the latest episode of the Mumbrellacast. Today, we're joined by Tommy Robinson to discuss whether or not those bloody—oh wait, our lawyers have advised us to drop that segment, so we will instead start by discussing Karl Stefanovic's perfectly played-out cancellation from Nine.

Today, after 20 years behind the Today desk, Karl Stefanovic has finally been axed by Nine, after months of ramping up the right-wing content on his independent video podcast The Karl Stefanovic Show until he hit breaking point with far-right agitator Tommy Robinson, who Karl openly declared his love for.

What's next for Karl's career? Can he make his millions without falling into bed with a major media company? Who will replace Karl on Today? Will Karl's new ARN radio show with controversy-free pundit Eddie McGuire go live at 1pm tomorrow afternoon, as scheduled? Will it still be uploaded to 9now if it does? Has Karl pushed his public persona too far to be a safe bet for a Nine competitor looking to snap up a heavyweight free agent? Will advertisers go near him after this? Will the witches stop waving their wands at Nine? Will Karl have to pay for his own table at the Logies?

These aren't rhetorical questions. We ask and answer them all.

A decent portion of our listeners may be tuning in from Cannes Lions in France, as they take a break from the relentless champagne, sunshine, and trophies to check back in with what's happening back home. Matt Jones, founder of Four Pillars Gin, Mumbrella columnist, and intrepid traveller, reports back from his very first Cannes Lions and tries to make sense of it all.

And finally, we look at the current race for the NRL broadcast rights, the most drawn out negotiations since Waco. It seems to be down to Foxtel and Nine, who are both trying to take the entire rights package, and box the other out, after 28 years of peacefully co-hosting the NRL. During the week, we asked whether Foxtel's bid for the prize is even legal, with the anti-siphoning laws dictating that free-to-air broadcasters need to have the first bite of the cherry when it comes to major sporting competitions.

Today, we take this discussion even further, and debate whether the anti-siphoning laws should just be abandoned altogether. We flip a coin, take opposing sides of that coin, and fight it out, primary-school debate-style. No fourth speakers or rebuttals allowed!

As with most debates, free speech is the real winner. Karl and Tommy will be very proud of us...

Happy listening!

Get the latest episodes here.

Podcast edit by Abe’s Audio.

Six years ago, Rob McFaul launched UK-based non-profit Purpose Disruptors with an aim to help the advertising and marketing industry move towards sustainability. Purpose Disruptors has just launched in Australia, with former OMD and Mindshare boss James Greet as its local boss.

On this week's Mumbrellacast, Tim Burrowes speaks to McFaul and Greet about the non-profit's mission in Australia, and how changing the mindset around client briefs so they understand how climate change is impacting marketers, and how marketers are impacting climate change.

Greet and McFaul said that most advertising clients aren't aware of the emissions impact their campaigns have on the environment.

"Climate change and biodiversity loss isn't a future problem, it's right here, right now," Greet tells Burrowes.

"It's a problem for businesses right here. All businesses are seeing a massive impact because of the impact of the climate crisis and biodiversity loss on their supply chains. That's happening now. Australians are feeling the impact of that through cost of living and increase in pricing on food and insurance and so forth. Which has to mean, if it's affecting consumers and all businesses now, it's got to be a problem for marketers.

"The challenge we have here is that I still don't think many marketers understand that or see the connection yet, let alone actually understand what's the relevant way in which they can get involved."

Greet said he was compelled to make a difference after realising he had spent the best part of four decades religiously following briefs for clients without thinking about the wider impact.

"You suddenly realise the better I am at my job, the worse I'm making the stuff I really care about, which is nature and environment."

Welcome to a very radio-heavy Mumbrellacast, where we discuss Kyle Sandilands' big settlement with ARN, SCA's sacking of three regional breakfast show, and even attempt to take Pauline Hanson's side on an issue or two (actually, just one). Best of all, we are joined by Lauren Joyce, who spent some time inside ARN, dealing with some of Kyle's mad fucking detractors.

We begin with Kyle Sandilands' settlement with ARN, which will see him take home $12m plus change, millions in advertising, and Smallzy's collection of Reeboks. It's hard to see who won, ultimately, aside from activist group Mad Fucking Witches. But, with Sandilands and ARN still in business through a revenue share agreement, will this public separation be enough to see the MFW back off ARN?

Southern Cross Austereo is the latest media company forced into "rightsizing" as business-types call the sacking of humans. The newly merged media company has cancelled three of its regional radio shows as it looks to cut 250-300 jobs across the entire company, and save $150m.

It's a big mission, but isn't regional breakfast radio the wrong area to look for savings, especially as the gulf between the monolithic tech giants, and local DJs discussing the weather between No Doubt tunes continues to grow wider? What has SCA lost by getting rid of its local talent?

This week Google flew marketing legend Les Binet to Sydney where he revealed the secret to marketing. His take? The more you spend, the better your results. Not surprisingly, such a simplistic take received a little push back from the Mumbrella team.

And finally, following Pauline Hanson's declaration that she would axe the SBS and use that money to invade Greenland or something, Hal Crawford and Tim Burrowes take opposing sides and debate whether the multicultural broadcaster should exist at all.

Oh, and did we mentioned -- we've got an exclusive snippet of Kyle Sandilands talking about-- well, you'll just have to listen in.

Happy listening!

Get the latest episode every Thursday.

Podcast edit by Abe’s Audio.

On this week's Mumbrellacast, we dive into today's radio ratings and look at who will fill the Kyle-sized hole in the Sydney breakfast market, debate Vinyl Group's masterplan, and chat to Nicky Barton from Mutinex about why brands are cutting marketing spend to long term channels.

We start with today's radio ratings, and the race to secure the Sydney breakfast radio crown now that Kyle and Jackie O are doing their broadcasts live from the Federal Court.

Triple M, ABC Breakfast, Smooth, Nova, and Gold all enjoyed increases in audience share for the timeslot, with Nova's new breakfast duo Ricki-Lee Coulter and Tim Blackwell managing to net the station's best breakfast ratings in 17 years, and Christian O'Connell starting to build an audience in his newest market. Tim also shares some interesting info about the most-listened-to shows nationally, and finds that all that glitters may well be Gold.

This week, Vinyl Group took over Pedestrian Group from Nine, and the licence for Time Out Australia and, according to CEO Josh Simons, did both deals for the price of a latte. It's the latest land rush for the aggressively minded media company, but does buying and bundling a bunch of once-hip, loss-making, youth-targeted media titles add up to a profitable business or are you just left with a stack of once-hip, loss-making, youth-targeted media titles? I guess we shall see.

And finally, marketing effectiveness company Mutinex has released data that shows how Aussies brands are crowding into marketing channels that are already saturated, while cutting spend in those that build long-term memories, such as television, talkies, and the wireless.

Mutinex head of marketing science Nicky Barton joins the Mumbrellacast to discuss the findings and to be peppered with a barrage of questions from Hal and Tim.

Happy listening!

Get the latest episode every Thursday.

Podcast edit by Abe’s Audio.

On this week's Mumbrellacast, Roy Morgan CEO Michele Levine joins the team to discuss a variety of topics, including her company's latest survey, which saw Optus pass Woolworths as Australia's most distrusted brand -- quite a dubious honour, indeed.

There's a Paul Kelly lyric: "To be good takes a long time, but to be bad no time at all." We saw that song play out when Qantas went from an untouchable Aussie icon to a national disgrace during the pandemic, and we've seen it happen to the once-sparkling reputations of Optus, Coles, and Woolworths over the past few years, which we discuss.

We also look at the continuing downturn in advertising spend in Australia through the lens of the new Guideline SMI figures, and try very hard to find a bright spot amongst all the diving lines on dot graphs.

This week, a friend of Mumbrella passed along an email from Elizabeth McIntyre -- the CEO of the Outdoor Media Association, a peak body that does exactly what its name suggests -- to her own board, blasting the country's largest outdoor media operator, Ooh Media, for making some dubious claims using OMA's Move measurement data. We love a good internal fight between stakeholders, so we unpack all the drama here.

And speaking of drama, this week was meant to signal the deadline for networks to make their first bids for the National Rugby League broadcasting rights, and it could go one of several different ways.

Will the league's chairman Peter V'landys get the record deal he has been bleating about for several years? (Spoiler: He probably won't).

Will Seven swoop in and take the two biggest footy codes? Will Nine box out Foxtel? Will Foxtel box out Nine? Will an American streaming service take a punt on a sport that calls 'punts' 'kicks'? Why are there so many songs about rainbows? We attempt to answer some of these questions.

And finally, there is seemingly a lack of basic training in the marketing industry, as Mark Ritson revealed at Mumbrella360 last week. He gave marketers a simple ten-part, multiple-choice quiz -- and most professionals couldn't get a pass mark, despite the test featuring what Ritson dubbed "basic sub-undergraduate questions". Worse still, 75% of those who failed rate themselves as "above average" in their field. Gulp!

Get the latest episode every Thursday.

Podcast edit by Abe’s Audio.

Rohan Lund, the newly minted CEO of SCA, joins Tim Burrowes on stage at the Mumbrella360 conference for his first major public interview since becoming boss of the media company.

Lund joined the board of SCA in March, was appointed CEO in April, and officially started in his new job on May 1.

Four weeks later, he jumped onto the M360 stage for a wide-ranging chat about a newly merged company in flux.

Lund speaks about his first month in the role, the biggest differences between the cultures at SCA and Seven, whether he will bid for the NRL, the predictable perils of having Gina Rinehart as a new financial backer, and how he plans to build his executive team.

“I don’t think the media is ready for these horizontal views," he said. "I think TV, radio, and publishing are very different businesses. They have different customer strategies and different cultures today."

Podcast edit by Abe’s Audio.

This week's Mumbrellacast was recorded live at Mumbrella 360 at Carriageworks in Sydney, with a six-person panel featuring our host Abe Udy, special guest Vinne Schifferstein Vidal, and regulars Eleanor Dickinson, Nathan Jolly, Hal Crawford, and Tim Burrowes.

We open with a selection of quotes from day one of the conference, with luminaries such as marketing leadership guru Thomas Barta, Ebiquity CEO Ruben Schreurs, Henry Innis and Nicky Barton from Mutinex, and Maura Touhy di Muro of Roblox speaking on redundant terminology, marketing mix modelling, artificial intelligence, leadership, and what Barta calls "the evil twins of marketing stupidity".

Tim spoke with SCA's newly minted CEO Rohan Lund, who was very honest about the "duplication" and "inefficiency" in merged companies such as the one he has been running for the past 28 days. He unpacks what he learned from that conversation.

Abe also runs a live demonstration of his new AI-built sales-enablement tool that turns a few quick prompts into a fully-produced radio advert, with music, and real voice-over talent from the Abe's Audio stable. It's quite remarkable, even if the live demo went slightly askew...

And we drag down the celebratory mood of the conference by discussing the bleak economic conditions, and how they are impacting marketers. Sorry!

Get the latest episode every Thursday.

Podcast edit by Abe’s Audio.