AI is learning from us—but what happens when the data it’s fed carries our deepest biases? This week, Elisa Poteat sits down with Roy Austin, inaugural director of Howard Law School’s Artificial Intelligence Initiative and former Deputy Assistant to the President for Urban Affairs, Justice and Opportunity in the Obama White House, to discuss how law and ethics can keep pace with accelerating innovation. Together, they examine AI’s influence on justice, bias, and national security, the responsibility of major tech companies, and what it will take to prepare the next generation of lawyers for an AI-driven world.

Roy Austin is the inaugural director of the Howard Law Artificial Intelligence Initiative, a groundbreaking initiative focused on ethical AI innovation and civil rights law.

References:

• White House Legal Aid Interagency Roundtable. Expanding Access to Justice, Strengthening Federal Programs: First Annual Report of the White House Legal Aid Interagency Roundtable. November 2016.
• Horwitz, Jeff. “Meta’s AI Rules Have Let Bots Hold ‘Sensual’ Chats with Kids, Offer False Medical Info.” Reuters, 14 Aug. 2025
• FISA Section 230
• Doe v. Meta Platforms, Inc. U.S. District Court, N.D. Cal., No. 23-cv-420095, Opinion filed Oct. 17, 2025.

As artificial intelligence accelerates, questions about power, privacy, and accountability are more urgent than ever. This week, we revisit our conversation with bestselling author and award-winning AI reporter Karen Hao, whose book Empire of AI reveals how ambition and competition transformed OpenAI from a mission-driven nonprofit into one of the world’s most powerful—and controversial—tech companies.

This re-air comes ahead of the 35th Annual Review of the Field of National Security Law CLE Conference, taking place November 13–14 at the Omni Shoreham Hotel in Washington, DC. With the theme “Technology, National Security, and the Law: Keeping Pace with Innovation,” the conference will feature two days of expert discussions on how emerging technologies are reshaping national security.

Karen Hao is a bestselling author and award-winning reporter covering artificial intelligence.

References:

• Register Now! The 35th Annual Review of the Field of National Security Law CLE Conference, November 13–14, 2025, with an opening reception on November 12.
• Agenda: The 35th Annual Review of the Field of National Security Law CLE Conference
• Hao, Karen. Empire of AI: Dreams and Nightmares in Sam Altman’s OpenAI. Penguin Press, 2025
• Section 230 Overview

This week, Elisa breaks down the latest headlines in national security law as the government shutdown stretches into its fourth week. From Russia’s attacks on eastern Ukraine to the growing energy needs of artificial intelligence, she connects how today’s developments are shaping policy and security. Elisa also covers the recent U.S. military plane crashes in the South China Sea, the evolving conversation around tariffs, and how economic challenges are shaping the outlook for younger Americans. She wraps up with a preview of the 35th Annual Review of the Field of National Security Law CLE Conference—where top experts will unpack the intersection of technology, innovation, and national security law.

References:

Register Now! The 35th Annual Review of the Field of National Security Law CLE Conference, November 13–14, 2025, with an opening reception on November 12. Register before November 1 for early bird rates.

The Standing Committee’s 35th Annual Review of the Field of National Security Law is almost here. This week, Elisa sits down with Standing Committee Chair Stephen Preston to highlight what’s ahead at this year’s conference—taking place November 13–14 in Washington, DC. From keynotes on artificial intelligence and defense innovation to panels exploring ethics, cybersecurity, and private sector engagement, Stephen shares how this year’s program captures the challenges and opportunities of a rapidly changing technological era. Afterwards, Elisa recaps the latest national security headlines—from hostage exchanges and AI investments to international jewelry heists and more.

Stephen W. Preston is Partner and Co-Chair of Defense, National Security and Government Contracts Practice at WilmerHale, and chair of the American Bar Association’s Standing Committee on Law and National Security.

References:

• Register Now: 35th Annual Review of the Field of National Security Law CLE Conference, November 13–14, 2025, with an opening reception on November 12. Register before November 1 for early bird rates.
• Ep. 373, From Pipelines to Prisoners: Security in the Energy Sector with Kieran Ramsey (Part 1)
• Ep. 392, Empire AI: OpenAI’s Rise and the Race for Global Power with Karen Hao

Once envisioned as a nonprofit dedicated to advancing AI for the benefit of humanity, OpenAI has since become one of the most powerful—and controversial—companies in the world. This week, Elisa Poteat sits down with Karen Hao, author of Empire AI, to examine how ambition, secrecy, and competition reshaped the organization’s mission. From the erosion of trust and safety standards to the looming energy costs of AI’s expansion, they explore what OpenAI’s story reveals about the future of artificial intelligence and the global race for dominance.

Karen Hao is a bestselling author and award-winning reporter covering artificial intelligence.

References:

• Hao, Karen. Empire of AI: Dreams and Nightmares in Sam Altman’s OpenAI. Penguin Press, 2025
• REGISTER NOW: 35th Annual Review of the Field of National Security Law CLE Conference – November 13–14, 2025, with opening reception on November 12. Register before November 1 for early bird rates
• Section 230 Overview

With hundreds of thousands of federal employees furloughed, the consequences of another government shutdown are hitting home. This week, Elisa is joined by Max Stier, President and CEO of the Partnership for Public Service, to break down how shutdowns became a political tool—and what they cost the American people. Alongside guest host Harvey Rishikof, they discuss the essential vs. nonessential workforce divide, the legal roots of shutdowns, and how this cycle threatens the long-term strength of U.S. institutions.

Harvey Rishikof is Senior Counselor of the ABA Standing Committee on Law and National Security

Max Stier is the founding president and CEO of the Partnership for Public Service

References:

The Partnership for Public Service

EVENT: Register for the 35th Annual Review of National Security Law CLE Conference, this Nov. 13-14 in Washington, DC

The Hatch Act Overview

Balanced Budget Act of 1997

Can a sanctions law be used to set trade policy? In this episode, Elisa sits down with Rachel Alpert, former OFAC Chief Counsel and now a Partner at Jenner & Block, to explore how the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA) has evolved—and why its use to justify tariffs is drawing scrutiny. Together, they trace the law’s origins, examine the traditional role of OFAC, and discuss the case heading to the Supreme Court that could reshape how tariffs are imposed during national emergencies.

Rachel Alpert is a Partner at Jenner & Block, and former Chief Counsel at the US Treasury Department's Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC)

References:

IEEPA

The National Emergencies Act

Trading with the Enemy Act

Export Administration Regulations

Outbound Investment Security Program

Comprehensive Iran Sanctions, Accountability, and Divestment Act of 2010

Section 232 of the Trade Expansion Act of 1962

The Major Questions Doctrine

From OPEC cartels to U.S. shale revolutions, energy markets have long stood at the center of global power struggles. This week, Elisa is joined by Elaine Levin, energy markets expert and president of Powerhouse, to unpack today’s oil and gas landscape—examining U.S. refining bottlenecks, political pressures on production, and how rising demand from AI, China, and India is reshaping the global energy map.

Elaine Levin is President of Powerhouse

References:

The One Big Beautiful Bill Act

California SB-237 NSLT Ep. 196, "News Roundup – Energy Crisis, Switching to Renewables, and Chinese Hypersonic Missiles"

NSLT Ep. 386, "Tariffs on Trial: IEEPA and the Limits of Executive Power"

Simmons, Matthew R. Twilight in the Desert: The Coming Saudi Oil Shock and the World Economy. Wiley, 2006

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With FISA Section 702 up for reauthorization in 6 months, we’re revisiting the basics of this contested surveillance authority. In this extended episode, Elisa first speaks with Josh Geltzer, former Deputy Assistant to President Biden and Deputy Homeland Security Advisor with the National Security Council, to break down what 702 is and why it’s so controversial. Afterwards, Elisa is joined by Glenn Gerstell, former General Counsel at the National Security Agency, to discuss 702’s value, past reform efforts, and what the future may hold. Note: these conversations were recorded in Fall 2023 and reflect the context of the prior administration.

Joshua Geltzer is Partner at WilmerHale, and former Deputy Assistant to President Biden and Deputy Homeland Security Advisor with the National Security Council

Glenn Gerstell is a Senior Advisor with The Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), and former general counsel of the National Security Agency.

References:

FISA Section 702 Resource Page (ABA)

FISA Section 702 Overview (DNI)

Report on the Surveillance Program Pursuant to Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, PCLOB 2023

HPSCI FISA Section 702 Report, November 2023

E.O. 12333

S.3351, FISA Reform and Reauthorization Act of 2023

S.1265, Fourth Amendment Is Not For Sale Act

H.R. 6570, Protect Liberty and End Warrantless Surveillance Act of 2023

The Supreme Court has agreed to hear the case challenging the use of emergency powers to impose sweeping tariffs—setting the stage for a ruling that could reshape U.S. trade policy. This week, Elisa is joined by David Ross and Kelly Dunbar of Wilmer Hale to break down the Federal Circuit’s recent decision in V.O.S. Selections, Inc. v. Trump. Together, they examine how the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA) was invoked in defense of tariffs, the constitutional questions over Congress’s authority to tax and regulate commerce, and why the major questions doctrine may be pivotal as the case moves forward.

David J. Ross is Partner and Chair of International Trade, Investment and Market Access Practice Group at Wilmer Hale

Kelly P. Dunbar is Partner in Government & Regulatory Litigation and Appellate & Supreme Court Litigation Practice Groups at Wilmer Hale

References:

IEEPA Tariff Litigation: What You Need to Know About the Federal Court Decisions Threatening the Trump Administration's Tariff Agenda.

V.O.S. Selections, Inc. v. Trump

EO 14193

EO 14194

EO 14195

EO 13257

Tariff Act of 1930, 19 USC 1338(a)

Trade Act of 1974,19 USC 2132