New Churches Podcast

Episode 633: If a church planter has “parachuted” into an unfamiliar city, how can he best go about building a team from scratch? Co-hosts Clint Clifton and Todd Adkins offer a plethora of hacks that will promote success.

I don’t recall who said it, but it’s true: People will will follow you if you’re uncertain; they won’t follow you if you’re unclear. @ToddAdkins

You don’t have to have it all figured out, but you at least need to have kind of a compelling vision for the future and have a place in it for each team member. @ToddAdkins

You need to have documented clarity: role descriptions for all your volunteers. You can get a win almost immediately simply by having a one-page role description in place. @ToddAdkins

You want to avoid the volunteer over-committing and coming back to you saying, “Hey I didn’t realize what this was.” @ToddAdkins

Clarity builds confidence for team members. @ToddAdkins

Good training does two things in equal parts: It gives both competence and confidence. @ToddAdkins

You don’t want to just recruit anybody that can fog a mirror. You want to think about the type of people you want to recruit and the way you want that to happen. @ToddAdkins

Some planters make “the big ask” in a safe, lighthearted way, and the person they ask isn’t quite sure if they’re serious. The more appropriate, more effective way is to have a serious conversation that creates a compelling moment they will not forget. @ClintJClifton

It’s not just the volume of impressions you’re making. It’s the quality of your interactions with people that make a huge difference. @ClintJClifton

Recruiting goes back to “seek first to understand and then be understood.” It goes back to just being insanely curious about your community. Schedule curiosity into your week. @ToddAdkins

Far too many times, ministry is something we do to people, not for people. @ToddAdkins

– Interested in learning more? Check out our Church Planting Primer

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Episode 632: Church-based residencies are a growing trend in ministerial and church planter training. Co-hosts Ed Stetzer and Dhati Lewis discuss the complexities and simplicities of such programs and offer some valuable insight on how churches both large and small can launch residency programs.

You need to be aware of a growing trend where churches are adopting a strategy to raise up church planters from within – or sometimes they kind of become within, do a two-year residency and then go out and plant churches. @edstetzer

At Blueprint Church, we say every covenant member is either a covocational church planter or a covocational church planting team member. @dhatilewis

We started Blueprint Church with a desire that we were going to be a church that’s planting other churches. We wanted to be a blueprint so we knew that was going to to take place. @dhatilewis

We didn’t necessarily have a timeline, per se, but we started doing different things and had an internship that led to an apprenticeship, and from apprentice to a residency. It was a leadership pipeline. @dhatilewis

Oftentimes we focus in on the calling. But if you train everybody who’s biblically qualified in your church, then God is going to match up people’s call to the burden in the cry-outs of the city. @dhatilewis

We had people living in our home for you months at a time and we would teach them how to be leaders. And we said, “You guys are our next small group leaders.” We would cast that vision with an expectation similar to Jesus’ call, “Follow me and you will become fishers of men.” @dhatilewis 

We were beginning with the end in mind. It was discipleship with a very specific and targeted destination of where we’re going. We put it up on a higher bar. @dhatilewis

Once they became small group leaders, then they became ministry leaders, and then they became Titus to women and elders and then they become elders. In that call, we sent them out as teams to plant churches. @dhatilewis 

Let’s just train everybody and let God bring out the calling in their lives. We started having a discipleship leadership program every member and allowed God to discover how that’s going to flesh out in their lives. @dhatilewis

Disciple making is not a ministry of the church; it’s the ministry of the church and residency is just one outgrowth of the call to discipleship. 

While most large churches have gotten very much into residencies, you don’t have to be a really large church to engage this. @edstetzer

In residencies, there tends to be a curriculum and a series of expectations. We are seeing more churches taking on historically the role that might have been like an agency.  @edstetzer

You can plant churches and not make any disciples but, ultimately, if you make disciples you will plant churches. @dhatilewis 

This is not the Jetsons, where you can just press a button and then churches come out and disciples are made There’s a lot in this operating system. You got to own the complexity so the simplicity is given to your members. @dhatilewis

As a volunteer, part-time pastor, I limited myself to four things: preaching, meeting with leadership, leading a small group in my home and leading our pastoral apprentice team.  @edstetzer

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Episode 631: What three main factors cause church plants to fail? Co-Hosts Clint Clifton and Todd Adkins discuss the role of isolation, conflict among team members and lack of self-awareness in the “slow-motion car crash” of church plant failure.

Watching a church plant fail is like watching a car crash in slow motion. @clintjclifton

A church planter puts his neck out there and says God’s calling me to plant a church. It’s It’s a very vulnerable venture. You say I believe God’s with me to do this and then you’ve got to close it down. It’s awful and just soul crushing.@clintjclifton

There are no no current statistics but the best I can tell is that about a third of church plants don’t make it to Year 5. @clintjclifton 

Often, especially early on in ministry, we are more competent in poetry than we in plumbing. Church planting requires a different set of tools and skills than running a church that’s already established. The plumbing is what grinds us down. @ToddAdkins

If you’re not able to actually deliver on the dream, it will fall apart quickly. You cast a great vision, but eventually you’ve got to deliver on the dreams.@ToddAdkins

You’re moving from “the old old story” to story strategy. But as ministry grows and increases, skills have to be developed, both personally and within the church.@ToddAdkins

In a sense, every church plant that “fails’ isn’t a failure as long as the gospel was preached and Jesus was exalted. All gospel work has some mysterious promise in it. We we don’t know how it will pan out in the future in terms of its fruitfulness.@clintjclifton

Every single time, without exception, when I’ve sat down with a church planner who’s closing up shop, the term “isolation” has been used.@clintjclifton

Isolation is the No. 1 cause of church plant failure from my point of view.@clintjclifton

I don’t think we talk about Satan enough. Anytime you’ve got somebody isolated like that, I would say that feeling is coming from two different things. One would be Satan, because he doesn’t want you to succeed. The other would be the lack of structure, the systems that take the burden off you.@ToddAdkins

Say no – and continue to say no for the rest of your life – to a lot of things. Work just as hard on your clarity as anything else.@ToddAdkins

in order to serve the church really well, you’re going to have to rob something right now, and that’s the sermon. In a lot of our churches, all guys want to do is the poetry part. @ToddAdkins 

A new church needs more that preaching, praying, loving and staying to come up out of the dirt.@clintjclifton

 You’re clear on your story and your strategy. The problem is you haven’t done anything yet. When you actually start to do this stuff, you better have just as much clarity on your structure and systems.@ToddAdkins

You better be just as clear on your structure and systems as you are on your story and strategy.@ToddAdkins

The second most common reason church plants fall apart is conflict with team members. It’s extremely common, and often those conflicts are terminal for the church because it is too young and weak and vulnerable.@clintjclifton

The third thing in church plant failures is just a general lack of self-awareness when it comes to personal giftings. If you go into church planting without a really good handle on what you’re good at and not so good at, it can be detrimental to the life of the church.@clintjclifton

When you identify strengths and weaknesses you didn’t know you had, you’re going to understand yourself better and set up yourself a lot better for success.@ToddAdkins

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Episode 630: When should a church plant set its sights on planting a daughter church?  Co-hosts Ed Stetzer and Dhati Lewis discuss the problems of planting too early and the importance of “planting pregnant.”

I wanted to be the last generation to leave the urban context for sound discipleship. I’m committed to raising up urban leaders in majority-minority, multi-ethnic spaces – which is another way of saying “urban.” That’s what North America is in all cities and what North America will be in 2040. @DhatiLewis

People ask me, “When is the time to plant our daughter church?” The rule of thumb has always sort of been that if you don’t do it within three years, you’ll never do it. Sometimes you heard people say, “Let’s get involved earlier, like in the first year.” @EdStetzer

One of the things we’ve intentionally done in Send Network is having people thinking that they need to “plant pregnant” – planting together with the understanding that one of your team members is coming in to be going out. So they plant with that DNA. @DhatiLewis

I have seen people with the “three years” multiplication mindset go in and plant healthily, and I’ve seen them, unhealthily at times, trying to plant whether they’re ready or not. @DhatiLewis

There’s lots of pain that comes from planting when you aren’t ready. You experience a lot of pain and trauma as a church, and you give some to the church plants, because they were expecting something from us that they didn’t get because we were still trying to take care of ourselves. @DhatiLewis

I wish I knew then what I know now. A plant needs certain things from the sender. You think that would be intuitive because you just went through the process, but when you’re looking at it from the other lens, you just don’t know you can’t provide it. @DhatiLewis

I’m really excited that Send Network is creating resources for sending churches. If we had what we’re giving now, it would have been a lot different for us. I still would have done it, but I would have done it a lot differently. There was some pain we didn’t have to experience. @DhatiLewis

I’ve encouraged church planters to say that from Year 1, they’re going to be involved in a church plant, but depending on how Year 1 goes, that church plant involvement could look different. Perhaps you partner in Year 1 and Year 2, and then mother by the time you get to Year 3. @EdStetzer

In Send Network, we that we believe every Send Network church is a multiplying church in the making. The question I like for us to think about is what is the easy, obvious and strategic next step to becoming a multiplying church? @DhatiLewis

You become a multiplying church once you’re discovering, developing and deploying people from within. What we try to do is give people exposure, get the congregation thinking beyond themselves. @DhatiLewis

We immediately try to get a church plant to become a supporting church – praying, participating or partnering. A supporting church becomes a sending church when you’ve helped someone discover their calling and go through training. The multiplying church has developed a system to discover, develop and deploy. @DhatiLewis

Everybody’s looking for that already discipled, already trained person to send out, and that well is running a lot drier. The next generation of church planters are either not saved in your neighborhood or they’re currently in your pews. @DhatiLewis

There are so many things I would do differently in planting churches, knowing now what I do, but that’s why I’m passionate about helping other churches to not have to face the pain we did. @DhatiLewis

Get involved early and often in church planting. While that’s going to look different in different contexts, some can go too early but most take too long. @EdStetzer

People early on need to be accustomed to the fact that you’re a church-planting church. It sets that agenda, you look for those opportunities, you raise up those leaders who are going to go out and make a difference. @EdStetzer

Interested in learning more? Check out our Church Planting Primer”

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Among Wolves: Disciple-Making in the City

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Episode 629: What two things can we do to encourage more bivo/covo church planting – and what are the relational, financial and missiological benefits? Host Ed Stetzer and Brad Brisco, NAMB’s director of bivocational church planting, discuss bivo/covo church planting and how, depending on cultural context, it might be easier – or more difficult – than traditional church planting.

Sometimes we bifurcate our thinking about ministry. I think I think that, unfortunately, we have too many bivocational planters or pastors who compartmentalize their work in the marketplace and their mission or ministry. I don’t think that’s helpful. @BradleyBrisco

A bivocational church planter is someone who has a part-time job in the marketplace that they see as temporary. A covocational church planter, on the other hand, would be someone with a primary calling in the marketplace that they never intend to leave. @BradleyBrisco

How can you do what God’s called and wired you to do for the glory of God, but at the same time have a different imagination for church planting where you can start something while you’re in the marketplace? @BradleyBrisco

The most difficult time of church planting is when you’ve got nobody and you’re trying to start off from there. @EdStetzer

Sometimes I wonder if we have some foundational assumptions about church and mission and even leadership that actually make church planting more difficult. @BradleyBrisco

An understanding of the church as a vendor of religious goods and services can create a consumeristic monster. I wonder if there’s benefit in seeing the church as a more simple, more nimble, more missionary entity – which doesn’t make it easy by any means. @BradleyBrisco

More simple, organic church planting may actually be harder in some ways with the majority of people in our culture. I think it’s hard to say, “Listen, we’ve got a church. There’s no pastor in the sense you understand a pastor, and we meet in a home and it’s not a cult.” @EdStetzer

In an increasingly missionary context, in places where we’re really reaching into lostness, we have to have a “longer runway” perspective and we have to measure and count different things. We need to focus on more organic, relational discipling. @BradleyBrisco

Often our very first step of evangelism is we have to deconstruct the caricatures lost people have about christians and the church. The only way we’re going to do that is by doing life with them and actually building relationships. @BradleyBrisco

In bivo/covo church planting, when you don’t have this immediate need to get to financial self-sufficiency, there’s less pressure toward that Sunday morning gathering and you can evangelize and disciple a church into existence. @EdStetzer

If your goal was discipling people, rather than launching a public worship service, there’d be a lot fewer church planting failures because we had a different target and it made a difference. @EdStetzer

Sometimes we make church planting harder than it needs to be because we don’t do it with a team. If you’re bivo/covo, there’s just no other option. You have to do this with a team. @BradleyBrisco

My perfect scenario would be two or three covocational couples and two or three covocational singles planting a church together. Can you imagine the relational capital? And if each one gave six or more hours a week toward a church plant, think about the financial sustainability. @BradleyBrisco

We need to tell the beautiful stories of the bivo/covo planter who’s driving the school bus, the school teacher, the mechanic who’s planting a church. We have to do a better job of tapping into the power of the narrative. @BradleyBrisco

Start a bivo/covo pilot project on the side, and when that goes well, capture those stories and tell them to the rest of the congregation. That’s going to open up the eyes of other people to say, “Hey, I love what they’re doing. I think I could do that!” @BradleyBrisco

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Episode 628: What are some traits of domineering leaders and how can you recognize them in your own life? Host Clint Clifton and Todd Adkins, LifeWay’s director of leadership development, discuss healthy work relationships and how to guard against patterns of domineering leadership developing in new pastoral leaders.

The rise and fall of Mars hill podcast has started a conversation around leadership that, while it has been happening already now has really come to a state of maturity where we are facing head-on the difficulties of domineering leadership that we also see manifested in smaller ways in in local churches. @ClintJClifton

We need to say OK, what can I learn from this and how is it going to move me forward in my relationship with Christ and and bring glory to Him and and His Church. It’s better to learn from somebody else’s mistakes before we learn for our from from our own. @Todd Adkins

You have to be careful about cheap leadership, which happens when you are a jerk and you use your “power” and position to get your way or to make it all about you or fill in the blank. @Todd Adkins

On the other side of it, cheap leadership is not leading at all, being so concerned about something that you don’t actually do much or move people forward because you don’t have the confidence or competence to make decisions and move forward. @Todd Adkins

This is a stewardship issue. It’s about recognizing the responsibility we have as leaders to not please everybody. At the end of the day, the burden on you is to lead, whether or not you make everybody happy along the way. @Todd Adkins

Someone once told me that pastors are professional forgivers and, if you happen to be on the side of receiving criticism, you’re going to have to have thick skin and a tender heart, not thin skin and a hard heart. You have a heart of receptivity toward the criticisms but don’t let them go into your marrow. @ClintJClifton

When you’re establishing a church plant, a really big part of the culture you’re creating is how you yourself are interacting with the people, the tone that you set, the things that you celebrate, measure, control or reprimand. All those things are key levers in setting that culture. @Todd Adkins

People can outrun their competence and character pretty quickly, if they don’t continue to be humble and they don’t  intentionally put guardrails around themselves. They naturally drift toward domineering because of basic human nature. @Todd Adkins

Good leadership is a powerful weapon and it needs to be in the hands of somebody with good character who knows how to use it. We must be dedicated to truly and authentically developing leaders and passing along the character of Christ to them. @ClintJClifton

Part of it is recognizing that your legacy is not what you do, it’s who you develop;  it’s not the organization you build, it’s the organism you build. It’s all about the posture at which you approach leadership and motivation. @Todd Adkins

You have to ask questions: What’s it like working on the other side of me? Do I give others the grace that I ask for? If I treated my spouse like this, how would they react? @Todd Adkins

Good leaders don’t react; they respond. And there’s a big difference: One is emotional and one is actual leadership. @Todd Adkins

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The three categories of church planters are seen like “gold, silver, bronze,” but there are distinct advantages, missiologically speaking, to being bivocational, covocational or even a volunteer church planter.” @ClintJClifton

What approach you take to church planting depends upon what the call of God is on your life. We have a friend who describes himself as a “garbage man.” It’s a great union job that gives him freedom to plant churches after work. @EdStetzer

If you want to see a church planting movement, it’s going to be powered by bivocational church planting. @EdStetzer

Let me just say to those of you are bivocational church planters, how deeply thankful we are, because we think the model you’re using is how the Lord can and will work in very powerful ways. @EdStetzer

Church planting funding from denominations comes with strings. if you’re planting with us and we’re funding you, we’re going to have certain expectations of that funding. @EdStetzer

There’s definitely a “pay it forward” mentality in denominational church planting. Those expectations make good sense. It’s not just we want our brand to continue. We want the mission to continue. @EdStetzer

When it comes to denominational funding, church planters can be kind of utilitarian. It’s not wrong to say that’s not what we should do because that’s not who we are. @EdStetzer

When it comes to a church planting “side hustle,” it’s good to find a blend, something that allows you to to accomplish the goals of a church planter while you’re earning money. If at all possible, I want to combine my mission and my money making. @ClintJClifton

Is there a “sweet spot” in church-plant funding? The goal of a new church, financially speaking, is self-sustainability. That sometimes means we don’t take on a lot of bills, so we do things in an inexpensive way. But it’s tethered to how much the church grows, and you can’t know that before you begin the church. @ClintJClifton

What’s a good bivo/covo church planting job? #NewChurches

Learn more about church planter funding

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Episode 625: Host Ed Stetzer and Brad Brisco, NAMB’s director of bivocational church planting, discuss church planting movements and why “church multiplication movement” may be a better goal for church planting in North America. How is that defined? What thinking and behavior needs to change to see multiplication happen? What is the starting point?

Everybody is using the term “church planting movement” in different ways and having different meanings. What is a movement and how does it relate to church planting? @edstetzer

We haven’t seen “church planting movements” as such in the West, but we have seen church multiplication movements, which we’ve defined as a movement of churches that multiplies the number of churches by 50% in a given year with 50% conversion rate to the third generation – and we’ve actually seen that. @edstetzer

How do we need to think or behave differently to begin to see some level of multiplication movement? It’s probably not complicated, but it’s multifaceted. There’s no silver bullet, but there are several things we can do. @BradleyBrisco

We need to help people see how they fit into God’s redemptive mission and not just the ministry of the Church. Help everyone in our churches discover their passion and wiring for mission, then equipping and resourcing to release them into that mission. @BradleyBrisco

Part of the solution is rethinking “church” to recognize and legitimize smaller expressions of church. Those expressions are going to be in neighborhoods, in workplaces and in social spaces. @BradleyBrisco

Part of activating all the people of God to start new things is giving them a new or different imagination for what church might actually look like in their context. @BradleyBrisco

We have to have a different, more simple starting point. We’re living in a rapidly increasing missionary context and must start with missionary behaviors and activities – discipleship and mission – to equip, release and empower the people in our congregation. @BradleyBrisco

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Episode 624: While the words “church planting” don’t appear in the Bible, the entire context of the New Testament is entirely a church planting context. Host Ed Stetzer discusses the topic “Where is Church Planting in the Bible?” with Clint Clifton, the founding pastor of Pillar, a multiplying church in the suburbs of Washington, D.C., and NAMB’s senior director of resource and research strategy.

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