On the Gist, daytime and nighttime America.

In the interview, the Atlantic's David Frum joins Mike to talk about his Trumpocracy follow-up, Trumpocalypse: Restoring American Democracy. Frum explains that Trump is a victim of distraction as much as he is a practitioner, that the consequences of COVID-19 will be one of the deciding factors of the election in November, and that the GOP will eventually get over being on the wrong side of Trump.

In the spiel, America is on edge.

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Podcast production by Daniel Schroeder and Margaret Kelley.

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