No One Dies from Divorce

Whether you’re dealing with the distribution of marital assets, fighting for custody, appraising a business, or dealing with other issues, an expert can provide compelling insights into your case. In this mini tips episode, I explain the roles and value of various experts included in family law. 

Today I’m talking to Jason Hewlett, the only speaker in the world teaching leadership in a performance of uncanny musical and comedy impressions, utilizing the legends of stage. Jason’s book, The Promise to the One, discusses the importance of making and keeping promises to ourselves, which is something we tend to forget while going through divorce. We cannot feel fulfilled and show up for everyone else if we continually break promises to ourselves. 

We don’t get married with the intent of divorce, but the reality is 50% of all marriages will end in divorce. The most important thing a Prenup can do is protect wealth, property, business ownership, separate property etc. that you developed and/or received prior to marrying your spouse.  Work with an attorney in advance to methodically write up your prenuptial and do not wait until the day of your wedding to present it to them.

Sam Sorensen is an experienced and respected attorney, guardian ad litem, and special master in Utah. Today we’re breaking down Latin terms and legal jargon to help you understand when and why you may consider a GAL or special master in your custody battle over your kids.

What is a Guardian ad Litem (GAL)? 

There are both public and private GALs. They are appointed by the court when there’s a high-conflict divorce or there are any issues of abuse. They are an attorney that represents the best interests of the children to the court. The parents pay the GAL fee; usually the parties split the fee. If you want a good GAL with experience, you’ll be paying a premium. Usually needed if there are any abuse or neglect allegations. Or if there is a special needs child. And it’s helpful for parents to hear things from a third party, especially if there is a dispute about the wishes of the child (ages 7-16 usually) for custody. Or if there is a lot of conflict with the parents of what to do about a difficult child or a child struggling to want to have parent time with a certain party. The GAL can help get to the bottom of why a child might be hesitant, or recommend therapy or a parent-time change.

What is a Special Master?

Does not have to be an attorney, but is a delegated court authority and needs to have some experience and knowledge about current legal considerations. The parties will agree to appoint a special master to be a third party to help solve disputes. Usually are able to rule faster than a court; they are a quasi-judge with certain authority from the court. Helpful to keep one of the parties from repeatedly dragging the other party back to court. Usually assigned after the case if there’s still conflict navigating the divorce decree. But choosing one is similar to choosing GAL; ask for referrals from respected attorneys to find out what special masters are respected by the court. 

As a parent, what can you do to help your child prepare to meet with a GAL?

Let them know what’s happening and that the GAL is meant to help them. Reassure them that they can be open and honest. Make sure you’re not coaching or influencing or leading them on what to say. 

What is Parental Alienation? And how can you deal with it?

Party makes child feel guilty for wanting to spend time with the other parent, use gatekeeping, etc. It’s not helpful to label a parent as this, and neither parent or GAL is qualified to diagnose that anyway. If there’s parent-child estrangement, both parents need to get into behavioral cognitive therapy, whether you’re the favored parent or not. It’s usually not completely the other parent’s fault. How can you take some responsibility and work on yourself to improve the situation?

As a parent, what should you look for in a GAL?

Somebody that has courtroom experience, understanding of the current social research and child psychology, legal knowledge of case law in divorce and custody. Someone that the commissioners respect the GAL’s opinion (ask for referral from a respected divorce attorney).

GAL mandatory reporting (and teachers, hospital staff, therapists): Child abuse, computer crimes, elderly abuse. Parents are not mandatory reporters by law. Probably best for parent to report things to the special master or GAL or therapist unless it’s abuse. Effect of a professional reporting will have a stronger implication than if a parent is reporting. At least for subsequent offenses.

In this mini tips episode, I explain when you would want to prove you had a common law marriage with a partner, even if you never officially got married. Albeit a confusing legal road, proving common law marriage and then getting a divorce is more inexpensive and likely to receive alimony than if you have to go through civil court to divide assets when your relationship ends.

Show notes:
Common law marriage means that you possibly have been together with a person for a length of time but haven’t gotten married. In Utah that’s called “common law marriage,” but it may be called different things in other states, or not be recognized at all. 

In Utah if you’re looking at separating from your long-term partner and therefore want to show that you were in a common law marriage with them, you have to prove that you’ve cohabited, shared the likeness of being married to the world (such as wearing rings or referring to each other as spouses), and acted as if you were married (like filing joint tax returns together, shared bank accounts, purchased real estate together, etc.).

So if you’re looking for post-separation alimony or support, you’ll need to prove and show evidence that you had a common law marriage. Your partner may likely contest it if they don’t want to be responsible for paying those things. 

In Utah, there’s a statute of limitations of 1 year from time of breakup. So you only have one year to prove that you had a common law marriage. It’s not super common in Utah because we have such a high marriage rate, so make sure you find an attorney that has experience with common law marriage. 

The court will then backdate a “marriage date” based on the evidence (such as the date you bought a house together, for example), and that’s the date they will use in determining how long a partner is eligible to receive alimony post-split (since alimony is usually based on length of marriage).

Some states have made cohabitation laws that will make things easier for splitting up assets. But in Utah, we don’t have that, so you’ll have to pay court fees and hire attorneys that specialize in this. So in Utah, if you’re not married and you’re trying to get court help for dividing assets, and you’re not going the common law marriage route, you actually have to go through civil court instead of domestic court, and you’ll need to pay the civil law court fees (which are double the domestic law fees) and find civil law attorneys to help. If you want to show there was a common law marriage, you can hire a family law attorney and go through domestic court.

You can draft up relationship contracts (similar to pre-nup or post-nup documents) where you outline income and expenses and how things will be divided regarding pre-relationship assets and money and then assets and income earned in the duration of the relationship. It’s a good idea to do if you’re purchasing property together with someone you’re not married to.

Today, happiness guru Melissa Bright and I are sharing our trials, how we got through them, and what we learned from them. Listen to our tips for getting through the grief cycle, choosing happiness, and knowing you’re never alone.

Show notes:

I am the host and creator of The Bright Side of Life Podcast. On my podcast I talk to people that have been through struggles and pains in their life and how they found their path back to the bright side, (whatever that means to them). 

I believe that happiness and looking on the bright side is all about mindset, and these stories navigate and discuss people's successful journeys to happiness. Some of my topics have included: divorce, cancer survivor, trauma, suicide prevention, abandonment, addiction, finding God, therapy, and many more. Find out more at www.thebrightsideoflifepodcast.com

 Melissa had her daughter at age 16 and lost her mom, who was her best friend and support, when she was 26. She doesn’t want anyone to feel alone like she did for a long time. Everyone is going through some kind of struggle. Keep that in mind and show compassion and kindness for everyone. 

Remember that social media is a lie. It’s not a true portrait of who someone is.  

What is the biggest misunderstanding of happiness?

It’s not a destination or future goal that it is only attached to or some sort of level. Living in each present moment and looking for the positive is the most important thing you can do and is the only thing you can really control. Choose happiness.  

What’s the first step in finding joy and positivity through struggles?

You need to feel them instead of avoid them. Sit with your feelings, even the negative ones, and know that this is not the end. It can’t always be perfect but you can find and feel happiness again.

 The next step is therapy. You need to understand and learn about the grieving process and what that looks like and feels like for you. It helps you understand you’re not the first or last person to feel a certain way or experience a certain situation. Therapists can educate you and validate you and your feelings. Avoidance is never final; it will eventually come out.

 Everyone shows up during a tragedy; divorce, funeral, etc. But maybe show up for people a month later, because that’s when they will probably really need it. Helping people makes people happy. Ask for help. Help others even when you’re sad. Allow yourself time to grieve and be sad. Allow yourself some indulgence. Make time for your hobbies. Savor your positive experiences. Make goals. Look for gratitude. Set yourself up for success by doing things for yourself that make you happy. You have to be responsible for your own happiness and mental health. Make time for self care, see a therapist, take your prescribed prescriptions. There’s no shame in any of these things.

When your ex breaks court orders, you need to take timely action. There is a statute of limitations of 4 years in Utah for missed child support, for example. Listen in as I discuss specifically what action you can take when, and how to navigate these circumstances.

Show notes:

Say you have an order signed by a judge (whether it’s something like a mutual restraining order, which is pretty standard as part of a divorce decree, or a or a temporary order) and you hear your ex is doing the opposite of or breaking the order in some way. You need to write it down with what is happening and include dates. Don’t interrogate your kids or make them feel bad for telling you. First figure out if you can address this with your ex spouse. Do it in writing; email is best. Tell them what you heard, communicate that it’s a violation in your eyes, and ask them if it’s true. This shows you’re trying to be a mature person and trying to resolve it on your own first (which courts love). And then you get your ex’s response, whether it admits something and apologizes, or shows their immaturity or unwillingness to work with you (either response will help). If the order has been violated 3 times willfully (knew the order and purposefully disregarded it), that’s when I would recommend filing a motion for contempt. You’ll need to hire an attorney, which costs money. But if you have 3 violations, you have enough evidence to make a good case to the court and very possibly may be awarded sanctions (including attorney fees), so it’s more likely to be worth it to take it to court. Don’t wait too long to enforce orders. There are statutes of limitation on court orders. In Utah, there is a 4-year limit on missed child support. First go to your state attorney general’s system for child support collection. In Utah it’s ORS (Office of Recovery Services). They can automatically draw child support money from wages or whatnot. The purpose is to bring the party into compliance, not to punish the person. 

Attorney, mediator, therapist, and author—Bill Eddy—provides us with a master class of techniques he has perfected over his 30-year career in high-conflict divorce. Get his BIFF communication method, 4 co-parenting rules, and top 3 parenting tips of all time—right here on the podcast!

Bill Eddy, LCSW, Esq. developed the high conflict personality theory to explain the driving forces behind people who present the most challenging behaviors. He is an expert on managing disputes involving high conflict situations and 5 high conflict personality types, including a subset of those with narcissistic, borderline, antisocial, histrionic, and paranoid personality disorders. He has trained over 200,000 professionals in 10 countries on understanding and managing high conflict disputes, including lawyers, judges, mediators, managers, human resource professionals, businesspersons, healthcare administrators, college administrators, homeowners’ association managers, law enforcement, therapists and others.

He serves on the faculty of the Straus Institute for Dispute Resolution at the Pepperdine University School of Law in California and is a Conjoint Associate Professor with the University of Newcastle Law School in Australia. 

4 things that define high-conflict personalities:

1. Preoccupation with blaming others and doesn’t taking personal responsibility.
2. All or nothing thinking; Want total control (of kids, house, money, etc.).
3. Unmanaged emotions (e.g. burst into tears, etc.) that the situation doesn’t merit.
4. Extreme behaviors (e.g.: telling lies to officials, spreading rumors, punching holes in wall, hitting, hiding children, stealing money).

Bill rarely recommends no-contact orders of parents with children. Oftentimes, this leads to kids fantasizing about what the parent is like, that doesn’t fit the reality. It escalates the warfare so high that it’s hard to ever reach peace after. It’s almost always better to just have supervised visitation (like at a therapists’ office) if there’s some kind of concern about safety.

Tips for dealing with high-conflict exes: Manage the relationship at an arms’ length; manage how you write and speak to them and structure things so there’s not much contact (like parallel parenting). Realize that it’s more about emotions than intentional behavior. They communicate emotionally, and children unconsciously absorb that. Don’t bad mouth other parent.

4 strategies for co-parenting your kids when your ex is high conflict (4 big skills for life):

1. Flexible thinking
2. Managed emotions
3. Moderate behavior
4. Checking yourself

Use BIFF method to communicate:

• Brief (paragraph is usually enough, even if it’s in response to a tome)
• Informative (straight info, don’t need justification)
• Friendly (make it positive not negative; “thanks for telling me your concerns”)
• Firm (end conversation without asking for follow up questions, or if you have a request, keep it unemotional and include a due date)

What to look for in an attorney:

Need a lawyer with 5+ years of experience in high-conflict divorce, and has empathy. You want someone who’s not afraid to go to court, but isn’t overly litigious, and someone who is able to negotiate settlement. 

Top 3 parenting skills:

1. Unconditional love and affection for your child
2. Managing your own stress; you’re emotionally available for your child and that models for your children how to manage stress
3. Demonstrate healthy adult communication and negotiation. Let your child see you doing this with other adults if not spouse/ex.

Being served with documents is scary, whether it’s a civil lawsuit, lien, or traffic ticket you haven’t paid. These types of legal documents have to be delivered to you in a certain way, called “serving.” Whether you want it or not, if your spouse wants to divorce you, dodging a server won’t make a divorce not happen, so let’s just get through your divorce, and you can be on your way to healing and thriving soon.

Being served with documents is scary, whether it’s a civil lawsuit, lien, or traffic ticket you haven’t paid. These types of legal documents have to be delivered in a certain way, called “being served.” In Utah when you’re filing for divorce, the rules of civil procedure require that divorce documents be delivered to your spouse in a certain way. 

As a divorce firm, we use a third-party process company that serves documents for us/our client. The timelines don’t start until this official service happens. This will need to happen whether you have hired attorneys or you are doing your own divorce.

I get that this might feel scary if someone is trying to serve documents to you. But it’s usually better to just accept the service from a server, before it becomes a police officer at your door with a warrant to arrest you for something that may have just been a minor fine or something.

Accepting the documents starts the process. In Utah, you will have 21 days from date of service to respond to those documents. You will often get a summons, which will give you exact instructions on where to appear at court or how to answer the document. 

I get that it’s hard to accept the official process of a divorce starting. It’s a big emotional and mental toll. Hire an attorney so you don’t feel alone and confused by the legal process and find a therapist to help you cope. Whether you want it or not, if your spouse wants to divorce you, dodging a server won’t make a divorce not happen. It may delay it for a couple days. But ignoring or being in denial that it’s happening  just prolongs the divorce grief cycle you’ll go through. Let’s just get through your divorce; you can do it. There is life after divorce.

We’re discussing the divorce of Kim Kardashian and Kanye/Ye West today in our celebrity splits episode. Whether you respect them or hate their fame, join us as we discuss Kanye’s name change, Kim buying the marital home, and how, at least in appearances, they seem to be trying to put their kids first.

My guest today for this celebrity splits episode is Cameron Jolley, who is my marketing administrator. He’s a native of Utah and grew up in Spanish Fork. He got his marketing and communications degree from UVSC (now UVU). He is an avid fisher and thrill-seeker. He has a teenage daughter and supports female empowerment. He has some insight into divorce in that his parents divorced, and he is also divorced himself.

Today we’re talking about #KimYe, or Kim Kardashian and Kanye West’s imminent divorce. People either love or hate Kim Kardashian. The Kardashians are branding gods and have built up a lot of businesses and money around their looks. She says her one regret is that sex tape, and seems to be embracing her role as a great mom and for female empowerment these days. 

In August, Kanye petitioned the court to change his name for personal reasons to “Ye.” It was granted October just a few days ago. He has cited that it’s because it’s the most used word in the Bible.

We know the reality show isn’t real life. But it seems like Kim and Ye are handling their divorce fairly responsibly and maturely, and are trying to prioritize the kids.

Ye wanted to go to Wyoming. Kim wants to stay near her family in LA. Ye has been saying he is done with being married to Kim’s whole family, especially Kris Jenner.

They were married in 2014. Kim filed for divorce in February of 2021. She said in it that she thought it should be joint physical custody. They have 4 kids together: North, Saint, Chicago, Psalm. Kim just bought the family home from Ye. They are aiming for stability. It seems like Kim is really trying to show that she supports Ye.

Their combined wealth is 1.8 billion dollars. The majority seems to be in Ye’s Yeezy shoe business. But Kim has more liquid assets. 

Kim hired Laura Wasser, who is the major Hollywood attorney, like Britney Spears, Ryan Reynolds, Heidi Klum, Christina Aguilera, Johnny Depp, Kelly Clarkson, etc. Celebs love her because she is great at discretion. Then Kanye filed a counter petition, so they’re probably working out of court to settle this. They have a prenup, but it wouldn’t have covered the kids and child support. They say they are very cordial and have no bad blood. 

Kanye’s had a hard time accepting that she filed first. His ego was probably pretty wounded. At first he was saying he didn’t want the divorce and still loved her, but more recently, he said they had nothing in common and “let” Kim file first. He unfollowed Kim on social media and changed his phone number and told Kim she had to contact him through his security back in March. Meanwhile, Kim has posted pics of her on social media with Yeezy shoes on. And she matched him at the Donda event. Seems like she’s trying to support him.

We can’t wait for the next Kim K. wedding!