No One Dies from Divorce

Because some states have regulations about how long you have to wait before being granted a divorce after filing, many couples try to get a bifurcation first. Bifurcation means you are legally divorced and can get remarried, but your issues are still pending, like child custody and asset division. Listen in as I explain when it’s viable, and when you should just work toward divorce.

Bifurcation means you are legally divorced and can get remarried, but your issues are still pending, like child custody and asset division. I tell my clients we can try for it, but in Utah, they aren’t granted very often. The court tends to believe that if they hold the divorce over your head, it encourages quicker resolution. So bifurcations aren’t granted here very often. Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt were able to get a bifurcation about 3 years after they filed. They still have not finalized their divorce, so maybe that’s part of why it has dragged on so long.

Premarital agreements are becoming more and more common. But does everyone need a prenup? And how do you make sure your prenup will be upheld? Do you need to hire an attorney to get a good prenup? And how long before the wedding should you be negotiating a prenup? Find out these answers and more on today’s episode, with Colorado attorney and marital agreement expert, Ryan Kalamaya.

Life is full of peaks and valleys. Ryan Kalamaya and his team meet people when they are suffering in an emotional valley and facing the prospect of climbing their own personal mountain. They sort through their baggage, help them plan their journey and guide them to the summit. Ryan is the managing partner of Kalamaya Goscha, an innovative and ambitious law firm that pushes the boundaries to discover new frontiers in family law, personal injuries, and criminal defense in Colorado. He is the co-host Divorce at Altitude: A Podcast on Colorado Family Law. Ryan specializes in divorces involving complex property valuations, including closely-held businesses, family partnerships, & trust interests, attacking or defending marital agreements, and parental relocation or high-conflict custody disputes. He was named to the Rising Stars list by Super Lawyers for 5 years before being selected to Super Lawyers for 2022. He has a 10/10 rating by Avvo where there are over 80 client reviews and testimonials.

Millennials seem to be more open to premarital agreements, possibly because they saw their parents go through a divorce; they also seem to be more pragmatic. A lot of people today are getting married a lot later in life and often then have more assets going into marriage. A lot of celebrities end up attacking or having to defend their pre-nup agreements (like Dr. Dre, Kelly Clarkson, etc.). 

A premarital agreement or prenup spells out what happens if there is a divorce or death. There is also a marital or post-nup, which is created after a marriage has already started. The purpose is to lay out who gets what and to have predictability. A premarital agreement means nothing unless the spelled out scenario actually happens.

Does everyone need a prenup? Probably not. But certainly it’s never a bad idea.

What do you need to do to ensure your prenup agreement will hold up? In Utah and Colorado, there’s a uniform act. Prenups and marital agreements are a special kind of contract. They’ve been around for centuries. Their purpose was to spell out what happened in 2nd and 3rd marriages. Now we use them for divorce for 1st marriages. They have to include financial disclosures. It’s a simple net worth statement. Hiding assets will never go over well in a prenup.  And they have to be voluntary. Does an attorney have to be involved to draft and file these? At least meet with an attorney to ask questions and explain any of the legal meanings if you’re going to buy a boiler-plate prenup document to sign.

Don’t wait until the last minute to negotiate premarital agreements. It’s important to have each party have an attorney. This is the best way to get an enforceable agreement. You need to be prepared to not sign a premarital agreement and walk away from the wedding if what you are being asked to sign is completely one sided. Even if you don’t feel you are bringing as much to the marriage as far as assets or potential earnings. Have the hard conversations now. And find a local and experienced attorney: family law attorney or estate planning. Ask if they’ve had any experience litigating the challenge or defense of pre-nups.

Ways to attack a premarital agreement’s validity:

1. Unconscionability - may be present if the agreement is patently unfair to one party.
2. failure to disclose, or 
3. duress and coercion. 

Though most parents do pay child support, there are instances where you or your ex can’t or won’t. Whether the parent is able but refusing, unemployed, on social security, or owns their own business and doesn’t seem to have a regular or trackable income, listen in for what options you have and how you can ensure your children receive financial support.

Most people pay child support because they love their kids and want to take care of them. If your spouse is refusing to pay or evading child support, the attorney general’s office, no matter what state you are in, should have a division in the assistance of child support collection. In Utah, it’s called the Office of Recovery Services (ORS). You’ll want to go online and set up an account and ask them to garnish child support from your spouse. They do this for free because it’s a state agency. The exception is if your ex owns a business and is in charge of their own payroll or if they are on social security, since that’s not garnishable, or if they work odd jobs for cash that isn’t trackable. If this is your situation, you can do a motion to enforce the order. Judges can put someone in jail right from the courthouse if it’s clear your ex isn’t making an effort. If you are unemployed and receiving unemployment payments, you should pay the same percentage of that paycheck as you were paying from your previous paycheck. That shows you’re trying to do your part and the judges will try to work with you. Child support is for your kids. Just pay it.

Dating can be overwhelming for anyone in today’s world of apps and social media. But even more so for divorcees who may not have used any technology to date in their first marriage. Dating coach and matchmaker Jade Bianca offers safety tips, realistic expectations, and hope for people who are looking to date again.

Jade is a certified matchmaker & dating expert. She founded Dating After Divorce to provide divorced men and women with the effective tools, communication, and insight it takes to find a worthwhile partner. Jade offers coaching, dating profile assistance, and matchmaking services.

Jade is passionate about helping individuals find their confidence in dating again. She loves assisting clients in the US & Canada in their dating after divorce journey. Find out more at datingafterdivorce.com

One of the biggest mistakes people make after divorce is jumping right into a new relationship without working on yourself first. You need to reflect on what role you played in the end of the marriage. That accountability leads to healing. It’s important to not date someone too similar to your ex and you need to know how to set boundaries and look for red flags. If you aren’t used to feeling lonely, you may want to quickly fill that void with a new relationship. But that indicates a scarcity mindset. You need to enjoy being by yourself before you can enjoy being with someone else. You have to have realistic expectations for a partner. If you have a negative mindset, you’ll only be able to see the negative. 

Tips for dating in today’s age:

• Don’t expect chemistry immediately; 1 date isn’t usually enough to establish whether you are compatible or not (unless you get the heebie jeebies or a spidey sense that the person isn’t safe).
• ask to do a video call if you’ve only met them online, to make sure they are real.
• Don’t ever give someone money if they ask; that’s likely a scam.
• Make sure photos of you online don’t have personal metadata for people to be able to locate you (don’t post a photo of you in front of your house where your house number is shown).
• Try someone who’s not your typical type. Try dating someone who is the opposite of your ex. Put yourself out there and try out new things.

Spending Valentine’s Day alone might not be your number one choice. However, spending the day alone is a lot better than staying in a bad marriage. Though your first year as a divorced person may be difficult, spending the holiday alone doesn’t have to be an emotionally devastating event. You can be your own Valentine this year, and you can make it a day all about self-care and relaxation. 

Do not feel guilty about self-care when being your own valentine! Here are some tips:

1. Do something for your mental health: Wherever you are in the divorce process, seeking help from a mental health professional should be a priority. Therapy does wonders to help you cope and move forward. 
2. Do something for your physical health: Plan ahead! Get a massage, take a walk, join a gym class.
3. Do something for your emotional health: Whatever it is that you do to spoil yourself, make sure it’s something totally just for you. Remember, there are no rules about who can be your Valentine. So, if you’re your own Valentine this year, the ball is 100% in your court and you are fully responsible for making this day awesome and all about you.
4. Spend time with your loved ones! 

Past divorce client, entrepreneur, organizer of the Integrated Men community, and my friend, Adeel George, joins me to discuss why “nice guys'  often get stuck in middle management of life. Find out how to stop playing it safe, not play the victim in divorce, build a supportive community, and achieve your potential.

Adeel is a user experience professional, but through his personal experiences of divorce and subsequent journey of self-discovery, he has accepted his calling to help other men find community among men. Many men have trouble in relationships, whether it's building healthy relationships or finding the right partner. In this day and age, more boys are being raised by single mothers with absentee fathers; as a result, there are fewer strong male role models. These boys grow up into men confused, isolated, and disconnected. Another unintended consequence is the delayed maturity amongst modern men who struggle with their inner turmoil.

Alongside his passion for building communities, Adeel is a father, an entrepreneur, and any spare time he has he spends it pursuing his love for travel and photography. Learn more about Adeel's work at https://integratedmen.net. 

Nice guys play it safe in all aspects of their life, but that prevents them from achieving their potential. A lot of “nice guys'' have absentee fathers or didn’t feel like they could be heard by their parents. Fathers rights in Utah don’t have a presumption of custody. Utah looks at who is the primary caretaker of the child to determine custody. It really discounts the breadwinner role that most fathers play and is pretty gender biased.

We’re talking about fathers who want to be a caretaker and the dad has historically been the provider but didn’t play as big of a role in the “caretaker” tasks, but that doesn’t mean they didn’t play an important emotional role or from wanting to step more into the caretaker role post divorce.

His first attorney told him he couldn’t hope for more than 35% custody of his kids as a father. He didn’t know enough back then to look for a different attorney. His divorce was finalized in 2013, and for the first few years, he was able to have almost 50% custody unofficially. But then his ex wanted to revert him to less time, so Adeel spent the next 3 years and paid a lot of money to legally get 50% custody. 

Adeel carried the torch for the No More Mr. Nice Guys group. It’s a place to meet new people and find guy friends. People feel safe to talk about their struggles, from divorce to pornography. Especially if they aren’t willing to go to therapy. Adeel then encourages people to find a good therapist that you vibe with. The only way to get rid of shame is by sharing it with others, so you can’t just do self-therapy.

Friendship is so important when you’re going through a divorce. Loneliness is real, and jumping right back into a romantic relationship isn’t the best type of companionship when you’re in this state.

It’s ok to be angry at women/your spouse for a bit, but you need to be able to get past it. You don’t want to make emotional decisions or reactions out of anger when you’re in the legal system. It never benefits you, and it definitely never benefits your kids.

Tips if you’re going through divorce/lessons learned:

• Begin with self-care. Prioritize and invest in yourself. 
• Take a look at your dreams and honor them. Find and pursue your passion, whether that’s via your career or hobby. Find things that add value to your life. 
• Make guy friends: people you can trust and be authentic around

Most everyone who gets divorce does some kind of mediation. Because there’s so many types of mediators, I’m giving you my tips on what to look for in a mediator. Listen in for how you can prepare before going into mediation—and how to have the most successful outcome. 

Show notes:

Most divorces that are litigated go through mediation at some point. There’s lots of types of collaborative mediation and law. There are mediators out there where you go meet with the mediator with your ex, no attorneys needed, and your mediator drafts the stipulation documents. Most of the time, those mediators are not attorneys. They are great at communicating and compromising, but you should not take legal advice for them, and they really shouldn’t be drafting your divorce documents. If you go this route, I recommend taking the documents and paying an attorney (don’t need to retain them) to look over them and just meet with them for an hour or two. In Utah, if you file for divorce, you have to mediate before you go to trial. We resolve about 90% of our cases before they go to trial. But sometimes that takes multiple mediation sessions. In those cases, both parties are there with their attorneys, along with the mediator. Your attorneys are really your advocates. The mediator is trying to get you to settle and compromise. I really recommend having both people in the room for their own expertise. I don’t push my clients into mediation until they’re ready. If you are still too emotional and trying to rush into mediation, you often don’t get results the first time. Usually in mediation, you don’t even have to sit in the same room with your ex. You’re in 2 rooms and the mediator goes back and forth. Make sure before you go into mediation, you know what you want, what you’re willing to settle for, and what your bottom line is. Rank your top 5 things that you’re hoping for so you know how to prioritize at least your top 1 or 2 things. You have to be able to let the small things go. Don’t fight over Christmas tree ornaments or the teapot. Most everything is replaceable. No one wins in divorce. But if you go into mediation knowing those 3 things, you’ll likely be able to reach a livable settlement.

It’s been 6 years since Brangelina filed for divorce, and although they finally achieved a bifurcated divorce, they are still dividing and fighting over assets and custody and parent time for their 6 kids. Join me and fellow divorce attorney, Corttany Brooks, as we discuss the messy, expensive, and ongoing drama and speculation over this Hollywood ex-couple. 

Show notes:

I have Corttany Brooks back on the show for this celebrity episode to discuss the ongoing drama of Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt. Corttany, again, is a Utah family law attorney that works with me at Coillaw, but she actually grew up in Indiana. She moved to Utah last year and joined my firm, but was a prosecutor specializing in special victim cases and domestic violence in Indianapolis. She brings this empathy to the family law firm, and quickly picked up Utah law. She got her bachelors in journalism from Ohio University and her JD from Maurer School of Law at Indiana University, so she’s licensed now in Utah and Indiana.

Divorce was filed September 2016 and it’s still not done. Brad and Angelina got together around 2005 (while filming Mr. and Mrs. Smith) while he was still with Jennifer Aniston. They have 6 kids together (2 bio kids and 4 adopted kids). Brad adopted the kids Angelina had when they got married. They were together for about 10 years before they even got married. Angelina filed for the divorce and cited irreconcilable differences. We rarely use fault as a consideration in divorce. Angelina mentioned they were doing it for the health of the family. There were a lot of disagreements over co-parenting. There were apparently allegations of child abuse against Brad. It was under FBI jurisdiction because the one incident that allegedly happened happened while on their plane. The allegation led to Angelina having the upper hand with custody. Unfortunately, even if the allegations later come out to be false, there’s no reparations legally for the missed out time for the parent accused. 

She also accused him of drunkenness and smoking weed. We always advise our clients who are accused of things like this to just submit to drug tests so you can prove your innocence. For the temporary custody agreement, Angelina had full custody with Brad just having supervised visitation. A month after the divorce, the FBI said they had never opened an investigation because there was no case. Angelina did uphold the agreements. On Nov. 4, 2016, we find out that Brad is seeking joint custody. (Angelina was seeking sole custody.) Brad gets cleared of all the charges by both FBI and child services. In 2017, they decided to put their divorce on hold. In 2018, she started accusing him of not paying child support. Brad adamantly refuted it. They eventually got a bifurcated divorced (which is super rare). So they are legally divorced in April of 2019, with property and custody to be settled at a future later time. There are no more hearings until January 2021. The judge ruled that there would be shared custody and parent time. Brad was elated and Angelina was upset and tried to disqualify the judge, which she did succeed on. Brad appealed that. They were still fighting over the chateau property until last year.

The answer to this question may surprise or frustrate you. But I’m outlining how child support is often split and why, so you can stop worrying about it and shift your mindset. Remember that if you are blessed to make more money than your ex-spouse, it’s your privilege and responsibility to make sure your kids’ needs are taken care of.

You don’t get to decide how your ex spends the child support money; they get to spend it on how they deem appropriate. This may sound frustrating to you, but keep in mind a few things. Child support goes to the lower-income spouse. It varies by the state on how much child support is assigned to each spouse. In Texas, child support is calculated by percentage of income. In Utah, it’s calculated by how many overnights each parent has with the kids. If you and your ex have 50-50 custody with your kids, expenses don’t get cut in half just because your kids are only with you half the time. You still both each have to pay your whole rent or mortgage, utility bills, and you’ll have to have clothes and shoes and bedding for your kids at each house. Remember that if you are blessed to be making a lot more money than your ex, it’s your privilege and responsibility as a parent to make sure your kids are taken care of, no matter where they are. Decide to make paying child support and any additional needs your kids have, an honor to pay. Also remember that you’ll be paying your portion of medical expenses and such on top of child support; those types of expenses are not included in child support in Utah. That’s why Utah child support amounts are usually low in Utah. In many other states, that’s all rolled into child support, which makes those payments average higher. So just don’t worry about how your ex is spending the child support money, unless there are major issues like the kids don’t have heat or water when they’re there. But if your kid needs another pair of shoes to be comfortable, even if you think your spouse should have purchased them, just buy them and don’t worry about it.

Summary:

Divorce in itself is hard. When you’re trying to divide a business as part of the divorce, the possibility for complication and messiness goes way up. Today’s guest is an expert in corporate law and business valuation, and we’re discussing our top “what not to do’s” when it comes to setting up a business, valuing a business, and dividing up a business when you get divorced.

Today we’re talking about getting divorced when you have a business, whether you own or co-own, and what happens with the business. Today’s guest is a personal friend who happens to be an expert on this subject.

Curtis Anderson is a professor at the BYU Law School. He joined the BYU Law faculty in 2015. Prior to that he was an Executive Vice President and General Counsel of Match Group, which owns and operates the world’s largest online dating platforms including match.com, Tinder, meetic, okcupid and over 40 other brands. Match Group’s market capitalization is currently over $45 billion. Prior to joining Match Group, he was a partner in the Dallas office of Baker Botts, an international law firm with 13 offices in seven countries. He earned an undergraduate and law degree from BYU.

Most people don’t pay an attorney to set up their business. It is usually more expensive to clean it up later if you grow. It’s not that hard to do it right the first time, even if you do it yourself. Founders need to consider these 3 things:

Capitalization- someone has to put in the initial capital. Need it documented who owns what and how much

Decision making- how are decisions made? Is it majority or unanimous?

Exit strategies- who and when do people have the right to leave, and what are the terms?

Is your business considered a marital-owned business or not? You need to know your state laws, because the assets of the business may be considered joint, even if your spouse isn’t officially documented as a business owner. 

There is a difference between asset and income stream. These are divided differently. Make sure your attorney understands and has experience in dividing businesses in divorce.

How do you determine value in business? NOT tax returns. Financial statements are a better look.

Biggest mistakes in dividing business in divorce:

• not putting in protections ahead of time when people are less emotional and biased.
  • do a prenup agreement if you have business before marriage
  • do a postnup agreement if you’re building a business during the marriage
  • write up business organization documents and include any spouse of any partners to protect business assets 
• getting too emotional or vindictive about dividing the business and forking over tons of money to attorneys when that money could be for you and your ex and your kids.