On the Gist, if you look at the stats, the U.S. is doing the worst.

In the interview, part two of Mike's interview with Dr. Paul Offit, who as an infectious disease expert, and pediatrician, made some false predictions about the pandemic at first. He and Mike also discuss his new book, Overkill: When Modern Medicine Goes Too Far.

In the spiel, arguments are easier to read.

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Podcast production by Daniel Schroeder and Margaret Kelley.

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