Join us as we're privileged to host Dirk Moses, the Anne N. Bernard Spitzer Professor of Political Science at City University of New York and author of 'The Problems of Genocide: Permanent Security and the Language of Transgression.' Tune in as we examine the critical questions of genocide research, including reflections on the recent situation in Israel and Gaza.

In this episode, Jermaine McCalpin joins us for an in-depth conversation on the overlooked 1972 genocide in Burundi. We discuss the historical and political conditions that led to the violence, the colonial construction of ethnic identities, and why Burundi remains absent from most global genocide narratives. Drawing from his fieldwork and oral history projects, McCalpin reflects on the challenges of memory, reconciliation, and international recognition, and shares insights from leading student research trips to the region.

00:00 | Introduction & Biography
01:52 | Overview of the 1972 Burundi Genocide
05:52 | Specific Causes and Political Context in Burundi
09:24 | Pre-Colonial Social Divisions and Belgian Reinforcement
13:58 | Why the Burundian Genocide Is Marginalized
16:35 | Fieldwork and Student Research Trips to Burundi
18:33 | Student Reflections and Key Moments from the Field
20:37 | Teaching Genocide: Preparing Students for Difficult Topics
22:52 | Testimonies and Survivor Stories
25:16 | The Reconciliation Process in Burundi
29:47 | International Actors and Forced Reconciliation Models
35:18 | Role of the International Community
37:09 | Post-Genocide Ethnic Dynamics in Burundi Today
39:37 | Public Perception of Instability and Violence
41:53 | Intergenerational Legacies of Genocide
47:22 | Ethnic Identity and Storytelling in Burundi
48:13 | Education and Genocide Memory
51:11 | Global Support for Burundi’s Healing and Recognition

Join us for a powerful conversation with Thierry Cruvellier, Editor-in-Chief of JusticeInfo.net and author of Court of Remorse and The Master of Confessions, as he reflects on his decades-long journey reporting on international tribunals and transitional justice. In this episode, we delve into the politics behind the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda (ICTR), the ethical challenges of documenting mass atrocities, and what justice means in the aftermath of genocide. 

📚 Learn more about Thierry's work at justiceinfo.net
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#GenocideStudies #InternationalLaw #Rwanda #ThierryCruvellier #JusticeInfo #ICTR #TransitionalJustice #HumanRights #Podcast #NotToForgiveButToUnderstand

Chapter Timestamps:

00:00:00 Introduction

00:01:51 What Drew You to the Khmer Rouge and Rwanda Trials?

00:08:16 On Arendt’s Absences: Navigating Bias in Trial Reporting

00:12:21 Génocidaire, Real Justice, and the Reckoning with Sexual Violence in the ICTR

00:18:25 Reflections with Hindsight: The Complexities of the Rwandan Genocide

00:23:43 What was the most difficult part of collecting material for your books?

00:28:23 Examples of the imperfections and mediocrity of the trial system

00:31:31 How do the shortcomings of the ICTR compare with those of the gacaca trials?

00:39:20 What important local factors were overlooked by the international tribunal?

00:45:00 Where does Rwanda stand today on reconciliation, and why did this matter to you during your research?

01:00:16 The 1991 Rwandan military report and what it reveals about the planning of the genocide

01:07:03 What reflections or advice would you offer that haven’t appeared in your books?

In this episode of Not to Forgive, but to Understand, we speak with Kjell Anderson, jurist, social scientist, and expert on mass violence, about the complexities of victim-perpetrators through the case of Dominic Ongwen. We explore the intersection of international law, transitional justice, and the challenges of categorizing perpetrators who were victims themselves. From the use of neuroscience in Ongwen’s trial to the broader implications for legal justice, this conversation critically examines the limitations of binary thinking in international criminal law.

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#DominicOngwen #InternationalJustice #VictimPerpetrators #GenocideStudies #HumanRights #TransitionalJustice #NotToForgiveButToUnderstand #Podcast

00:00:00 – Introduction

00:01:43 – Who is Dominic Ongwen, and why has scholarly interest in him surged in recent years?

00:05:22 – How does Ongwen’s case compare to Primo Levi’s ‘Grey Zone’ concept of victim-perpetrators?

00:10:35 – Why is embracing complexity in scholarship crucial, especially in legal and historical analysis?

00:15:33 – How does the binary nature of trials impact cases involving victim-perpetrators?

00:20:27 – How was neuroscience evidence used in Ongwen’s trial, and was it handled effectively?

00:27:51 – Why is the legal system often perceived as pure, despite its inherent chaos?

00:35:24 – How did Ongwen’s beliefs in magic influence his actions, and why do Western tribunals overlook such factors?

00:46:08 – Does international transitional justice reflect colonial dominance, or are we in a post-colonial era?

00:48:22 – What makes your research unique, and what gaps did your book address?

00:52:03 – What major insights did you gain from studying Ongwen’s case?

00:54:00 – Was the ICC’s judgment on Ongwen fair, and what are its implications for future cases?

00:58:01 – What common misconceptions exist about child soldiers?

01:01:43 – Given the limitations of legal institutions, are international trials truly just, or are they often predetermined?

Leyla Ferman: A Decade After the Yazidi Genocide
In this episode of Not to Forgive, but to Understand, we speak with Leyla Ferman, Co-Founder of the Yazidi Justice Committee and Director of Women for Justice, about the ongoing fight for justice a decade after the Yazidi genocide. We discuss the legal battles and the resilience of survivors. Featuring selected artworks by Falah Kaboo, as highlighted in Sarwa Azeez’s article Beyond Mourning: Art as Healing a Decade After the Yazidi Genocide.
Special thanks to Sarwa Azeez, Falah Kaboo, and Genocide Studies and Prevention: An International Journal for allowing us to share their work.
🔔 Subscribe for more discussions on genocide studies, justice, and human rights.
#YazidiGenocide #JusticeForYazidis #HumanRights #GenocideStudies #SurvivorStories #NotToForgiveButToUnderstand #Podcast

00:00:00 | Opening
00:01:30 | Introduction
00:01:59 | Why have the Yazidis been targeted by ISIS?
00:03:32 | Historical persecution of the Yazidis
00:06:21 | Why does ISIS consider the Yazidis ‘Kuffar’? Misconceptions about Tawûsî Melek
00:09:57 | Saddam Hussein’s involvement in Yazidi persecution
00:13:10 | The connection between the Kurds and the Yazidis
00:16:40 | How ISIS misinterpreted the Quran for their own benefit & legal ramifications
00:20:58 | The treatment of Yazidi women by ISIS & legal actions against perpetrators
00:24:30 | How has universal jurisdiction been exercised in favor of the Yazidi community against some of the ISIS perpetrators?
00:27:17 | Why is a genocide declaration not the end of the fight for justice?
00:29:57 | Skepticism about 'Never Again'—is genocide prevention effective?
00:36:58 | What does genocide prevention look like in practice?
00:42:54 | The Yazidi Female Survivors Law & its effectiveness
00:45:45 | U.S. troop withdrawal and its impact on Yazidi security
00:47:32 | The role of bystanders in genocide and mass atrocities
00:53:41 | Survivor experiences—insights from working with Yazidi survivors
00:56:18 | Why do some survivors choose silence over testimony?
00:58:42 | What leads a survivor to change their decision to speak out?
01:02:43 | The universality of human suffering and genocide
01:04:32 | The linguistic connection between the name ‘Ferman’ and the Yazidi term for genocide

In this episode, we sit down with Craig Etcheson to explore his experiences conducting groundbreaking research on the Khmer Rouge and his role in the Extraordinary Chambers in the Courts of Cambodia (ECCC). We delve into the continued activities of the Khmer Rouge, the challenges of balancing justice and negotiation, and how narratives surrounding the Cambodian Genocide have evolved over time. Craig shares insights on genocide's legal constitution, the unique challenges faced by post-conflict societies, and parallels between international tribunals. He also offers advice for scholars and reflects on the human capacity for extraordinary evil.

00:00:00 Opening and Introduction
00:01:42 Insights from Research on the Khmer Rouge
00:04:03 Ongoing Activities of the Khmer Rouge Post-1979
00:06:57 Balancing Justice and Diplomacy in Negotiations
00:09:15 Reflecting on Choices: What Could Have Been Done Differently?
00:13:34 Evolving Narratives: How Research Shaped Our Understanding
00:15:44 Defining Genocide: The Case of Cambodia
00:18:21 The Naming of Genocide
00:19:55 Finding Workarounds: Challenges in Addressing Genocide
00:22:05 Lessons for Post-Conflict Societies from Cambodia
00:24:27 Historical Precedents in Transitional Justice
00:27:04 Comparing the ECCC and Sierra Leone’s Special Court
00:28:37 The Future of International Tribunals: What’s Next?
00:31:45 Career Advice for Aspiring Scholars and Practitioners
00:33:40 Exploring Creative Writing
00:38:04 What Are We Still Missing in Understanding Genocide?
00:43:13 The Impact of "Othering" on Personal and Professional Work
00:45:44 Key Advice for Researchers in Genocide Studies
00:47:58 Grappling with the Concept of Extraordinary Evil

In this episode of Not to Forgive, but to Understand, Sabah Carrim speaks with Ben Mauk and Nyrola Elimä about their investigation published in The New York Times. The article, titled “The Long Road from Xinjiang” in print and “He Made a Daring Escape From China. Then His Real Troubles Began” online, explores the journey of Hasan Imam, a Uyghur refugee fleeing repression in Xinjiang. The discussion delves into Hasan's story and the broader implications of China's transnational oppression. Ben and Nyrola share insights from their years-long investigation, highlighting the extreme challenges Uyghurs face both within China and beyond its borders.

In this interview, musicologist Morag Grant, specializing in the intersections of music, violence, and human rights, discusses the ways music has been used in contexts such as mass violence, torture, and genocide. She examines its role in shaping group identity and facilitating acts of violence, as well as its presence in both historical and contemporary detention practices. This conversation provides valuable insights into the complex relationship between music and social behaviors.

In this episode, we sit down with Jeanine Ntihirageza, an expert in linguistics, refugee studies, and human rights in Africa. Jeanine shares insights from her recent work, “Education and Epistemicide in Africa: Towards an Ubuntu-Based Comprehensive Model of Education.” She explores the concept of epistemicide and its implications for educational practices in post-conflict contexts, challenging us to reconsider how education can serve as a tool for healing and empowerment. Join us for a compelling discussion that reimagines the role of education in addressing historical injustices and fostering resilience in communities.

In this episode of 'Not to Forgive, but to Understand,' we sit down with Micki Pistorius, psychologist, author, and profiler. She initiated the Investigative Psychology Unit in the South African Police Service in 1994 and profiled more than 30 serial killers. Her autobiography Catch me a Killer has been turned into a television series. Follow her on

https://mickipistorius.co.za/
https://www.patreon.com/MickiPistorius
https://www.youtube.com/@MickiPistoriusProfilerOnRecord

You can watch Micki's interview with Sabah titled on "Genocide and Serial Killings: Are there similarities?" on her Patreon link here:

https://www.patreon.com/posts/genocide-and-are-109684512?utm_medium=clipboard_copy&utm_source=copyLink&utm_campaign=postshare_fan&utm_content=web_share

Join us for a thought-provoking conversation that challenges our conventional understanding of perpetrators.