In the 2010s, we found out that we were all being watched. A series of leaks, from Wikileaks and others, revealed that our governments were conducting mass surveillance operations on their own populations. But what were the longer term consequences of those leaks? And why hasn’t something of equivalent size stepped in to replace Wikileaks since?

Stefania Maurizi is a journalist who worked with Wikileaks and Glenn Greenwald on the Edward Snowden revelations. She’s also the author of Secret Power: Wikileaks and Its Enemies.

She sat down with Richard Hames to explain how Wikileaks achieved so much, how the state tried to destroy them, and how they fought back and won.

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