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On todays episode, we down with Andy Caron, President of Revenue Pulse, to explore the unexpected intersections of curiosity, attribution, psychology, and the marketing operations profession. Andy shares her non-linear journey from costume design and publishing to marketing ops leadership, revealing how seemingly unrelated experiences laid the foundation for a successful career in MarTech and consulting.

We unpack the role of curiosity and "hand-raisers" in MOPS success, debate the nuances and pitfalls of attribution modeling (with a detour through The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy), and dive deep into how understanding human psychology enhances leadership and system architecture. They also explore the evolving influence of AI in marketing operations and what the future might hold for the AI-augmented MOPS professional.

Tune in to hear: 

• From Costumes to Campaigns: Andy’s unique journey from theater and publishing to MOPS shows how creative roots and adaptability foster systems thinking and leadership in tech.
• Curiosity as a Superpower: Why the best MOPS professionals are tinkerers, willing to break things and raise their hands to figure it out.
• 42 and Attribution: A humorous yet profound analogy between Douglas Adams' "42" and the complexities—and misinterpretations—of marketing attribution models.
• The Psychology of Ops: How studying human behavior helps bridge stakeholder needs, build better systems, and influence organizational dynamics.
• AI in MOPS: Insights into how AI is reshaping the profession, from task automation to agent orchestration—plus why being AI-activated (not replaced) is key to the future.

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On today's episode, we sit down with lead scoring consultant Lucas Winter to explore a refreshing, data-first perspective on building lead scoring models—one that challenges the conventional wisdom and AI hype alike. With storytelling flair and practical insights, Lucas discusses how marketers can uncover true buying intent and dramatically improve sales efficiency.

Tune in to hear: 

• "Moneyball" Meets Marketing Ops: Lucas applies the Moneyball philosophy to lead scoring—focusing on what actually drives conversions versus what sales or execs think looks good. It’s about looking for patterns in customer behavior, not just traditional job titles or industries.
• AI’s Limitations in Lead Scoring: While AI has promise, Lucas outlines how AI-driven models often misinterpret causation (e.g., recommending “retired” contacts) and require human oversight to avoid absurd conclusions.
• Gold, Silver, Bronze > Arbitrary Scores: Ditch complex scoring ranges like “0-100” and opt for intuitive models like “gold, silver, bronze, junk”—making it easier for sales teams to understand and adopt.
• Why Gmail Isn’t Garbage: Contrary to common assumptions, personal email addresses like Gmail can indicate serious buyers—especially in early-stage startups. But to gain sales trust, these leads must “work harder” to earn high scores.
• Start Simple, Stay Iterative: Don’t wait for perfect data or fall into “overreactive” model changes. Build a solid draft, validate with real outcomes, and evolve based on performance—not opinions.

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On today's episode, we are joined by Janelle Amos, founder and chief strategist at Elevate Growth, to explore how demand generation and marketing/revenue operations teams can thrive through better collaboration, mutual understanding, and strategic alignment. With a rich background in revenue marketing, advising, and podcasting, Janelle brings powerful perspective and practical tips on fostering cross-functional trust, communication, and shared success.

Tune in to hear:

• How top marketing ops teams stand out by aligning tactical work with broader business goals and communicating their value effectively.
• The power of curiosity and shadowing—why simply asking questions and observing other teams can drastically improve cross-functional rapport.
• Why trust is essential and how "disagree and commit" can move collaboration forward even when there’s tension or differing opinions.
• Tips for building productive relationships, including when to use an internal advocate and how to handle difficult conversations with empathy and clarity.
• How leadership perception and initiative shape success, especially for newer hires aiming to establish credibility and connection.

Episode Brought to You By MO Pros 
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On today's episode, hosts Michael Hartmann, Naomi Liu, and Mike Rizzo come together for a candid midyear conversation about everything happening in the MO Pros community and the broader Marketing Ops landscape. From membership model updates and upcoming events to fresh research and evolving roles, this chat covers a ton of ground. Whether you're a longtime member or just tuning in, this is your go-to catch-up on where things stand in 2025 and where we’re headed.

Tune in to hear: 

Membership Model Shift: Slack access is now a Pro-member benefit—hear the reasoning behind the change and how it’s designed to foster trust, safety, and meaningful engagement.

MOps Events Update: MOps-Apalooza 2025 is coming in hot—get the dates, location (hello, Anaheim!), and behind-the-scenes insights into the planning chaos (including a $350K food & beverage minimum?!).

New Research Drops: The team discusses the new State of Data-Driven Decision Making report, covering data quality, analytics gaps, and organizational maturity.

Expanding Roles in MOps: Naomi shares how her role has grown to include BDR teams and sales enablement, highlighting the real-world impact of cross-functional ops leadership.

Coming Soon: Cohorts & Community Building: A sneak peek at new initiatives to match members based on roles and responsibilities—connecting peers in meaningful ways.

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On today's episode, we talk with Ahmad Moore, founder of Pressure Marketing, to unpack his unconventional but deeply inspiring journey into marketing operations. From IT help desk roots to sales leadership and now running his own MOps-focused agency, Ahad shares how leaning into empathy, technical curiosity, and a hunger for alignment helped shape his path.

✨ Tune in to hear:

• Why marketing ops is “IT with better branding” — and why that matters
• The underrated power of listening deeply and building an “empathy engine”
• How cross-functional experience in sales, strategy, and support creates a sharper MOps perspective
• Lessons learned from building systems under pressure (literally and figuratively)
• How Ahad is using AI and HubSpot to scale smarter, not harder

Episode Brought to You By MO Pros 
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On today's episode, Mike Rizzo talks with Martin Pietrzak, founder and president of Pinch Marketing, to unpack what Google and others have called “the messy middle” of today’s buyer’s journey.

Gone are the days of the simple, linear sales funnel. Instead, buyers loop through endless cycles of exploration, evaluation, and self-education before they ever talk to sales — if they do at all. Martin shares how marketing ops pros can embrace this new reality by becoming strategic partners who help build flexible data-driven systems that enable real-time insights, better attribution, and scalable growth.

You’ll hear:

• Why the messy middle exists — and how buyers’ behavior has changed forever.
• How technology, data, and AI are reshaping go-to-market architecture.
• The critical role marketing ops plays as the “marketing scientist” in modern organizations.
• Practical steps to capture buyer signals and turn them into actionable insights.
• Why marketing ops leaders must think like product managers to architect the GTM stack.

Whether you’re building your ops career or leading teams through complex martech stacks, this episode is packed with insights you can apply right away.

Episode Brought to You By MO Pros 
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In today's episode,  we talk with Irwin Hipsman, founder of Repititos, to explore the often-overlooked world of customer marketing and the critical role of customer contact data. Irwin shares findings from his recent research report on the state of customer contact databases, revealing why so many organizations struggle with poor data quality and how it impacts customer communications, renewals, and crisis response.

Together, they dive into:

• The definition of customer contact databases and why focusing on individuals—not accounts—is crucial.
• Key findings from Irwin's research, including an industry-average database health score of just 47%.
• The importance of cross-functional teams in maintaining healthy customer data.
• Actionable steps ops professionals can take to assess, clean, and maintain customer data health.
• Why better customer data translates directly into stronger customer relationships, higher retention, and better crisis management.

Whether you're in marketing ops, customer marketing, or revenue operations, this conversation offers practical insights that can help transform your organization's approach to customer data management.

Access the customer health score assessment here.

Access Irwin's report here.

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On todays episode, we talk with Rick Collins, Vice President of Demand Generation at ConnectWise, to explore his unconventional yet inspiring journey from IT to marketing operations and ultimately into executive marketing leadership. Rick shares how he transitioned from managing systems to driving demand, the pivotal career moments that shaped his path, and the leadership lessons he’s learned along the way. Whether you're early in your marketing ops career or looking to break into leadership, this conversation is packed with valuable takeaways on navigating transitions, building trust, and expanding your influence.

Tune in to hear:

• Rick’s unique career path from IT and QA into marketing operations and eventually to a VP role in demand generation.
• How to leverage technical and relational skills to create career mobility within marketing.
• The importance of curiosity, relationship-building, and challenging assumptions—internally and externally—for leadership growth.
• Insights into managing through organizational change, including private equity acquisitions and team restructuring.
• Tips on transitioning from managing ICs to managing other managers, including the importance of communication, presentation skills, and executive alignment.

Episode Brought to You By MO Pros 
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The rise of AI tools has dramatically changed the landscape of email marketing and sales outreach, creating both exciting opportunities and significant risks. As Mustafa Saeed, co-founder and CEO of Luella, explains in this eye-opening conversation, many revenue teams are now "scared shitless" about how their reps might abuse these powerful new technologies.

When AI-powered automation tools are implemented without proper guardrails, organizations face serious threats to their brand reputation, domain health, and even compliance standing. The problem isn't AI itself, but rather "AI coupled with reckless automation" that floods inboxes with content that lacks genuine value. As email service providers like Google and Microsoft respond with increasingly aggressive spam filters, even legitimate messages from trusted senders are getting caught in the crossfire.

The solution isn't abandoning AI but reimagining how we use it. While many AI tools promise to remove humans from the loop, Saeed argues for bringing them back in through thoughtful collaboration between humans and AI agents. This approach combines the best of both worlds—AI's ability to analyze vast datasets and humans' talent for building authentic relationships.

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Ever wondered why your marketing data isn't delivering the insights you need? The answer lies in what Nicole Alvarez calls "the ugly work" – those essential but unglamorous tasks that create the foundation for beautiful marketing results.

In today's episode, Nicole, a Solutions Architect at ClearPivot with a fascinating background in psychology and cognitive science, explains why field audits, permission sets, and process documentation deserve more attention. Drawing from her experience across multiple industries, she reveals how these behind-the-scenes elements enable the exciting, visible outcomes that marketing teams celebrate.

We explore a powerful technique for demonstrating the value of data cleanup – building reports with bad data to show stakeholders why investment in data quality matters. When executives see inaccurate reports that don't reflect business reality, they better understand why dedicating resources to "boring" operational work is essential. 

Whether you're struggling to maintain clean data, communicate the value of operations work to executives, or simply looking to improve your marketing systems, this episode offers practical wisdom from seasoned professionals. Subscribe to OpsCast for more insights on the critical work that happens behind the scenes in successful marketing operations.

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