On this episode of GTM Live, Carolyn and Amber sit down with Steve Armenti, CEO & Founder of Twelfth Agency and former demand gen leader at Google.

Steve shares his journey from corporate marketing to building a thriving agency, and dive into why most revenue teams miss the real story in their data, how to flip the script on pipeline analysis by studying rejection instead of just conversion, and the critical role of sales + marketing alignment in fixing the “pipeline black box.”

You’ll hear practical examples from Steve’s experiences as an in-house demand gen leader and now running his ABX agency, insights into what’s working for growth-stage SaaS companies right now, and a fresh perspective on building GTM systems that actually deliver results.

If you’re a CMO, CRO, or RevOps leader looking for new ways to diagnose what’s holding back your pipeline, this episode is a must-listen.

Key Topics Covered:

• Lessons from demand gen on identifying what works vs. what doesn’t
• ABM → ABX: creating account-based experiences that align sales + marketing
• The “messy middle” handoff between sales and marketing, and why it breaks most funnels
• Flipping the script: studying disqualification rates instead of obsessing over MQL → SQL conversion
• Practical examples of diagnosing rejection data and what it revealed
• The underestimated importance of data hygiene, UTMs, and ops roles
• Why improving what you already have often beats chasing new volume

🔗 LINKS:

• Follow GTM Live on ⁠Spotify⁠
• Subscribe to the GTM Live ⁠YouTube Channel⁠

• Follow Steve on LinkedIn
• Check out Twelfth Agency
• Follow Carolyn on LinkedIn
• Follow Amber on LinkedIn

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This episode is powered by ⁠Passetto⁠, a technology-enabled GTM advisory with a solution that eliminates the Pipeline Black Box™, the critical data hidden inside every GTM engine where leaders are flying blind when it matters most.

Ashley Lewin has audited 30+ companies in her career and seen the same pattern: marketing teams stuck chasing MQLs while revenue stalls. In this episode, Carolyn and Trevor dig into Ashley’s perspective on why MQLs keep organizations trapped in short-term thinking, and how she’s applying those lessons now as Head of Marketing at Aligned.

We talk through what it takes to stand up a marketing function from scratch at a hybrid PLG + sales-assisted company, why implementing HubSpot’s Lead object was a foundational bet, and how “fail fast” disqualification changed the way BDRs and sales managers manage their pipeline.

Ashley also shares her playbook for winning executive buy-in: showing CEOs a predictable growth equation that replaces lead volume with qualified pipeline and product activation.

What You’ll Learn:

• Why 30+ audits taught Ashley that MQLs create waste, not growth.
• How to split the funnel: PLG activations vs. sales-assisted pipeline.
• The power of clean infrastructure: standing up a true lead object in HubSpot.
• Why “fail fast” leads to better conversion, stronger feedback loops, and less waste.
• How to navigate culture change so sales isn’t afraid to close lost.
• Why exec scorecards (not dashboards) determine whether change sticks.

If your growth plan still relies on lead math, you’re running on outdated assumptions. Ashley shows how to build a system that actually scales revenue, not just reporting.

🔗 LINKS

Register for our Oct 8 Pipeline KPI Workshop

Follow GTM Live on Spotify

Subscribe to the GTM Live YouTube Channel

Connect with Carolyn on LinkedIn

Connect with Ashley on LinkedIn

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This episode is powered by ⁠Passetto⁠, a technology-enabled GTM advisory with a solution that eliminates the Pipeline Black Box™, the critical data hidden inside every GTM engine where leaders are flying blind when it matters most.

If your board asks “Why is pipeline down?” and your opportunity dashboards only say marketing-sourced vs. SDR-sourced (AKA the four-funnel model), you’re stuck with surface-level data and left guessing at fixes instead of diagnosing the problem.

The real story lives between engagement and opportunity, the unmeasured factory floor where prospecting happens (or dies). In this episode, Carolyn and Amber show how to rip the lid off that black box, swap vanity volume for "causal" metrics, and find the repeatable patterns that actually manufacture pipeline.

Expect blunt takes, practical questions to bring to RevOps tomorrow, and real outcomes from teams who’ve made the shift (e.g., win rates jumping from ~13% to ~24% and easier budget approvals once the black box is illuminated).

What You’ll Learn:

• [02:20] Why “source” reporting hides the truth (and fuels misalignment)
• [08:00] The Pipeline Black Box: measuring the in-between (triggers → first meeting → opp)
• [15:00] Pattern-spotting: sequences that create pipeline vs. waste
• [17:30] Visual walkthrough: opening the black box
• [20:55] Prospecting as its own lifecycle: timing, activity load, DQs, velocity
• [26:10] From more leads to more lift (conversion, speed, win rate 13%→24%)
• [36:00] Turning visibility into stronger board stories & budget wins
• [38:25] 3 questions to expose your black box this week

Who This Episode For

CROs, CMOs, Demand leaders, and RevOps owners ready to graduate from MQLs/last-touch to a factory-style measurement system.

🔗 LINKS

• Register for our Oct 8 Pipeline KPI Workshop https://www.passetto.com/events/pipeline-visibility-workshop
• Follow GTM Live on Spotify
• Subscribe to the GTM Live YouTube Channel
• Connect with Carolyn on LinkedIn
• Connect with Amber on LinkedIn

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This episode is powered by ⁠Passetto⁠, a GTM advisory and instrumentation software company with a solution that eliminates the Pipeline Black Box™, the critical data hidden inside every GTM engine where leaders are flying blind when it matters most.

In this episode of GTM Live, Carolyn joins the Growth Activated Podcast as a guest to unpack one of the biggest blind spots in GTM today: what actually happens before an opportunity is created.

99% of GTM teams still can’t see this stage clearly. It’s the “grey area” where SDRs and BDRs are grinding—sending emails, making calls, chasing signals, running sequences—all in the hope of booking a meeting that turns into pipeline.

The problem? None of this activity is tracked in a clear, causal way. Leaders only see pipeline “sources” (marketing, sales, SDR), which hides the bigger story. Pipeline isn’t a source—it’s a chain reaction. A trigger sparks sales work, a series of events unfolds, and only some of those reliably convert to opportunities. Most of it? Invisible. That’s why pipeline creation still feels like guesswork.

Carolyn explains why source-based reporting and last-touch attribution keep teams stuck, and how to instrument the pre-opportunity “factory floor” with simple metrics that expose what’s really working.

Key Topics in this Episode:

• [00:10] Carolyn’s journey: 4x Head of Marketing → CEO of Passetto
• [07:30] The Pipeline Black Box: why pre-opp activity is invisible
• [09:20] Using triggers to understand what really starts sales work
• [14:00] Inside the factory: connect rate, time-to-meeting, qual rate, DQs
• [22:40] Client insight: MQLs drain resources
• [27:50] KPIs to rethink: drop department-source, own pipeline as a system
• [30:45] For marketing leaders: accountability over defense
• [41:55] Annual planning: fight inertia, build visibility first
• [44:50] Where to find Carolyn & learn more about Passetto

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This episode is powered by ⁠Passetto⁠, a GTM advisory and instrumentation software company with a solution that eliminates the Pipeline Black Box™, the critical data hidden inside every GTM engine where leaders are flying blind when it matters most.

99% of GTM teams still can’t see what really happens before an opportunity is created.

This is the "grey area" where SDRs or BDRs are working prospects — sending emails, making calls, chasing signals, running sequences — all in an effort to connect, book a meeting, and turn it into pipeline.

The problem? None of it is tracked in a clear way. Leaders see pipeline “sources” (marketing, sales, SDR) but miss the bigger picture.

Pipeline isn’t a source. It’s a chain reaction. A trigger sparks sales work, a series of events unfolds, and only some of those sequences reliably produce opportunities, while many don’t. The problem is, most leaders have no visibility into that chain, and that’s why pipeline creation still feels like guesswork.

In this episode, Carolyn explains why department-source reporting and last-touch attribution keep teams stuck, and how to instrument the pre-opportunity “factory floor” with simple, causal metrics.

They also tackle the cross-functional blame game (e.g. marketing vs. sales over MQLs and lead quality) and show how a unified, trigger-based view turns guesswork into an operating system for predictable pipeline.

Key Topics in this Episode:

• [00:10] Carolyn’s journey: 4x Head of Marketing → CEO of Passetto

• [07:30] The Pipeline Black Box: why pre-opp activity is invisible

• [09:20] Using triggers to understand what really starts sales work

• [14:00] Inside the factory: connect rate, time-to-meeting, qual rate, DQs

• [22:40] Client insight: MQLs drain resources

• [27:50] KPIs to rethink: drop department-source, own pipeline as a system

• [30:45] For marketing leaders: accountability over defense

• [41:55] Annual planning: fight inertia, build visibility first

• [44:50] Where to find Carolyn & learn more about Passetto

—

This episode is powered by Passetto, a GTM advisory and instrumentation software company with a solution that eliminates the Pipeline Black Box™, the critical data hidden inside every GTM engine where leaders are flying blind when it matters most.

Most GTM teamstoday are missing targets because they're simply measuring the wrong things. In this episode, Carolyn and Amber unpack why attribution is a mirage (it only shows the lucky 2% that become opportunities) and why the MQL hamster wheel keeps smart teams stuck optimizing a tiny slice of reality. We dig into the pre-pipeline “factory floor,” show how to expose the messy middle, and explain why “more volume” isn’t a strategy—it’s a cash leak.

You’ll hear concrete ways to replace vanity conversion stats with a causal view of attempts → connects → meetings → opps → DQs (with reasons), what to do about pipeline shock when you tighten scoring, and why pipeline needs a single owner (hint: not “marketing-sourced”).

We also talk about modular change vs. big-bang transformations, and where attribution actually belongs (as seasoning, not the main ingredient), dig into where attribution actually belongs in GTM measurement (spoiler: it’s seasoning, not the protein), and explain why modular change beats waiting for a full-scale transformation.

What You’ll Learn:

• Attribution ≠ answers: It validates the 2-5% that convert and hides the waste in the 98%.

• Kill the MQL hamster wheel: Measure the journey, not just MQL→SQL%.

• Instrument the factory floor: Person-level steps that predict pipeline (and the drop-offs to fix).

• Volume lies: “Do more dials” is a 2012 play—engineer repeatable patterns instead.

• Pipeline shock is healthy: Fewer junk opps → higher win rate and better CAC.

• One owner for pipeline: Align Sales + Marketing on quality pipeline, not credit.

• When to use attribution: After you fix data hygiene and pre-pipeline tracking.

If your dashboards keep telling you to “get more leads” or “add more dials,” you’re staring at the pipeline mirage. Break free from the hamster wheel, shine a light on the messy middle, and finally see what’s really driving, or draining, your revenue.

This episode is powered by Passetto, a GTM advisory and software company with a solution that eliminates the Pipeline Black Box™, the critical data hidden inside every GTM engine where leaders are flying blind when it matters most.

🔗 LINKS & CTAs

• Follow Carolyn on LinkedIn
• Follow Amber on LinkedIn
• Start your 14-Day Pipeline Optimization Sprint to uncover where your pipeline is leaking and to surface the KPIs needed to start engineering predictable pipeline growth.

Most companies are flying blind at the most important stage in revenue creation. Decisions get made on gut feel, data lives in silos, and leaders can’t answer the simplest question: what’s really working, and what’s not?

On this episode of GTM Live, Carolyn and Trevor are joined by their new co-host Amber Williams, Head of Revenue Operations at Passetto, to unpack why GTM leaders need to treat revenue like a science – bringing structure, data, and predictability to the go-to-market engine.

The hosts dive into why leaders often make decisions based on instinct instead of data, how poor data architecture creates hidden risks for growth, and why building visibility into every stage of the funnel is critical for confident decision-making.

The team also tackles the cross-functional blame game—why marketing and sales point fingers over handoffs and lead quality when the real problem is a lack of shared visibility. Without a unified view of the pipeline, every GTM function is forced to defend itself in silos instead of solving the bigger issue together.

Key moments in this episode:

• [03:15] Why “more tech” in 2025 doesn’t mean more clarity

• [08:42] The pipeline black box and what RevOps needs to uncover

• [16:30] Why gut-driven GTM decisions break down at scale

• [22:05] The hidden cost of poor data architecture on growth and trust

• [31:47] How systematic revenue visibility transforms executive decision-making

This episode is powered by Passetto, a GTM advisory and software company with a solution that eliminates the Pipeline Black Box™, the critical data hidden inside every GTM engine where leaders are flying blind when it matters most.

This week on GTM Live, Carolyn and Trevor sit down with Mark Turner, VP of Revenue Operations at Demandbase, to break down how RevOps leaders can build aligned systems, drive better GTM execution, and measure what actually matters.

Mark shares how his early background in FP&A shaped his leadership approach, bringing a data-first, analytical mindset to RevOps that balances strategic planning with operational precision. He also unpacks what it really takes to build a unified data layer across the GTM org, and why consistent definitions and connected systems are key to moving fast and measuring effectively.

Key topics in this episode:

• How FP&A experience gives RevOps leaders a strategic edge
• How to build a unified data layer across GTM
• Why sourced attribution models fall short
• What sales velocity tells you that pipeline doesn’t
• Where AI and automation are most impactful in RevOps today
• How to enable expansion and cross-sell without clunky handoffs

This episode is powered by Passetto, a GTM advisory and software company helping B2B teams build Revenue Sciences™, a measurable system that uncovers bottlenecks and data gaps, transforming go-to-market into a closed-loop engine for confident, scalable growth.

This week on GTM Live, Carolyn sits down with Sam Dunning, SEO leader and B2B growth expert, to unpack how SEO has dramatically evolved and what top-performing companies must do to adapt.

They dive into why traditional SEO—focused on keywords, rankings, and traffic—is now too siloed, and how modern SEO needs to align with revenue, messaging, and the full customer journey.

They also explore outdated SEO metrics, the pitfalls of last-touch attribution, and why shifting to a revenue-influence mindset is essential.

You’ll hear what modern SEO looks like in a revenue-led org, how category narrative (not keyword stuffing) is the new growth lever, and how AI is reshaping both content production and search behavior.

Together, Carolyn and Sam challenge the idea that SEO can be a standalone marketing channel, it’s a powerful GTM distribution engine when done right.

Key topics in this episode:

• Why SEO can’t be a silo anymore

• How to reframe SEO as a distribution strategy, not just a traffic engine

• Why aligning SEO with your company’s POV drives better outcomes

• How AI is reshaping the content and SEO landscape

• Why B2B companies need to track influence, not just rankings or leads

• The biggest SEO measurement mistakes teams still make

• What high-performing teams are doing differently with content
  

📣 Share this with any marketer or RevOps leader still tracking SEO like it’s 2015.

This episode is powered by ⁠⁠Passetto, a GTM advisory and software company that helps B2B SaaS teams achieve true Revenue Visibility. We work alongside revenue leaders to expose data blind spots, build the right data infrastructure, and eliminate the pipeline black hole. Visit ⁠⁠passetto.com⁠.

This week on GTM Live, Carolyn sits down with Dave Boyce, Executive Chair at Winning by Design and longtime SaaS builder, to explore why GTM systems are breaking, and what modern companies must do differently to build for predictable, customer-centered growth.

They dive into what Dave calls “the layers of sediment” that have built up over time, e.g. commissions, org design, reporting structures, and outdated dashboards, and why those legacy systems are misaligned with today’s buying behavior.

They also talk about the real challenges CROs are facing right now: Deals are harder to win, old tactics aren’t working, and most GTM teams are stuck optimizing for the wrong outcomes.

You’ll hear practical examples of what high-performing companies like Atlassian are doing differently, the importance of empathy in system design, and why the CEO—not just Sales or Marketing—needs to own this transformation.

Together, they unpack why most GTM strategies break down. And it’s not because of effort, but because they lack system design.

Key topics in this episode:

• The broken layers of GTM measurement, and why that era is over

• Why commissions often reinforce short-term, self-interested behavior

• Why visibility across the full funnel/bowtie is essential for accountability and improvement

• The "Andon Cord" concept from Toyota and what GTM can learn from it

• Why the CEO must own GTM system design (and why FP&A is the ideal quarterback)

• What Atlassian does differently to align around the customer

📣 Share this with an exec who still thinks GTM is a funnel.

This episode is powered by ⁠⁠Passetto⁠⁠. We help high-growth and equity-backed companies turn GTM data into better decisions, faster. We unify your GTM and financial data, identify your growth levers, and help you scale. Part SaaS, part advisory. Visit ⁠⁠passetto.com⁠.