There is going to be a very good chance that you think you know what I'm going to say on this podcast, but you don't. I can promise you that, because up until about 12 hours ago, I didn't even know what I was going to be saying on this podcast. I actually had an interview scheduled this week, but aren't we living in a time when we never know what's coming? This podcast wasn't in the cards for me either, so please keep listening until the end.

David Radke will be joining me on today's show. In order to earn a living, I create content. I write books. I travel and I speak. I write online courses and make funny videos. I advertise for companies that I love and trust. I do television sometimes. All of this has been upended in the last two weeks. Just like your life has been upended. All of the dates on my calendar for travel and speaking for the next several months are gone. Every one of them.

Like most of you, I have a side hustle. David and I have been working on the relaunch of Ink since November, but David suggested that we go with the relaunch of a course that would be more timely right now. He suggested we work on the relaunch of This Sucks...But God Is Good.

Show Notes:

• [04:38] Melissa agrees with David that now is the time for this course.
• [05:03] Melissa wants to come out of this with clarity and answers. She wants to be better and not worse. Lean in and not lean out.
• [06:22] We need to take advantage of this time and be wise with the time that we have been given.
• [07:00] We are going to relaunch This Sucks... But God Is Good. It's an online course that you take at your pace. It's a weekly email with videos. You get one lesson each Monday for six weeks.
• [08:32] You also get questions to help you clarify the concepts in your mind. Each lesson has four to five bite sized video lessons that totals around 45 minutes to an hour. The downloads are also available as audio for listening anytime.
• [09:00] There are also summaries, outlines, and transcripts for those who like to read. And a like-minded Facebook community to interact with. Melissa will also be there and will have some live chats with you all. She will also take and post questions.
• [09:31] She's there for you, answering your questions and challenging you as we go along.
• [09:55] Thousands of people have gone through this course already. If you have, go back through it and jump back into the group. The season you are in now is totally different than the season you were in.
• [11:01] Melissa created this course based on the journey that her and David went through suffering from infertility, miscarriages, and the birth and death of their son.
• [11:38] It's been for every woman and man who has been angry at God, because somewhere your train went off the tracks.
• [12:42] There is freedom in your life that is available to you through this course.
• [13:24] This course is regularly $67. We know you have so much going on that we can't offer it to you for that price. Because of the times we are in and what's going on we are going to offer this course to everyone for $1.
• [14:34] When you pay your dollar, you are free to pay whatever amount you want. You pay what you want to pay and what feels right for you.
• [17:21] If you've never taken a course like this, this is something that you have never experienced.
• [18:04] Melissa wants to share what she's been taught by a God that she finds so loving and so accepting.
• [18:32] This isn't your Grandma's bible study. We meet you where you are.
• [19:06] We love you so much.

Thanks for joining us on Ordinary People Ordinary Things. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast on iTunes and leave a nice review. Just like your mother taught you.

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I'm excited about today, because my guest is ordinary. She is ordinary, the topic is ordinary, and you all know how I feel about ordinary. We talk about a mundane event that lots of people go through, but she is handling it in extraordinary ways. I haven't done a podcast on this subject, yet it's so prevalent. I'm talking about divorce.

Last fall, I met Kelly Mathews, and I thought she was so kind and so beautiful, but her story was painful. It was the story of a loss of a relationship and the loss of a marriage. When I met her, I was wondering how she was still standing and still smiling. I was thinking, this is what grace looks like. Kelly embodies grace and teaches us how to do that.

She describes herself as a single white female (without being scary), CPA (but better dressed than you are probably imagining!), who started a boutique accounting firm in the second bedroom of her house 16 years ago.

She is a proud mother of a thoughtful teenage daughter (although it sounds like an oxymoron - thoughtful teenager - she's blessed to actually have one). Her superpower is that strangers are very comfortable talking to her, and they typically tell her whatever is on their mind...even if it's a secret.

Show Notes:

• [04:33] Kelly's people are her family and friends. She has a fabulous relationship with her daughter. Kelly is also super close to her parents who live 30 minutes away from her. She plays Bunco with her friends.
• [06:13] Kelly has been blessed to have groups of people who have supported her throughout her life.
• [07:39] Kelly and her husband dropped their daughter off at camp and then went on a date to a movie. When they got home her husband of 18 years asked for a separation. The next evening he asked for a divorce and moved out two days later.
• [09:26] Kelly picked her daughter up from camp on her own. That was three years ago.
• [14:04] The first thing Kelly did to survive was get up everyday and face the day. You create the new normal based on what you know. She also knew she needed a support team for her and her daughter.
• [18:14] It's important to tell your support group what your needs are.
• [19:02] The divorce almost broke her. She wanted to dull what she was feeling. She decided to live through the experience and deal with her hurt. It's hard to choose the most difficult path.
• [22:18] She had to work through her anger and work through that stage of recovery.
• [26:07] A powerful statement is, "you were wronged." You feel what you feel and that's what you feel. Kelly realized her emotions were so out of character. She has swinging emotions. Feeling her feelings was so freeing.
• [28:37] A Bunco friend told her that she had turned a corner. Her anger had ebbed. Her friend recognized it without prompting.
• [31:41] Things not to say include, "you will be so lonely" and "are you dating."
• [38:03] Kelly is happy with where her life is and the choices that she has made after the divorce. She is healthy and rested now. She was running on life's treadmill. She had time to think about things and decided to use that time for good.
• [41:16] She's being true to who she is and who she wants to be.
• [44:23] She also created a decision tree about how she was going to deal with questions from her ex-husband.
• [48:44] Be interesting because of who you are. Kelly writes down new things that she wants to try. She has done extensive heart work.
• [51:16] Kelly shares her favorite hometown restaurant, friendship, and maybe some Julia Roberts.

Thanks for joining us on Ordinary People Ordinary Things. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast on iTunes and leave a nice review. Just like your mother taught you.

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Over the next two weeks, we will be talking to women who were suddenly faced with a decision. Maybe the decision came after years of being at a dead-end job, and they simply had had enough. Maybe, it came after a divorce. We will be talking to these women who found themselves having to make a choice about what will be next. What will they do? Will they live? Will they die? Will they get stuck? Will they continue waking up every day putting one foot in front of the other? There are some really powerful and relatable stories coming your way over the next couple of weeks.

Our Guest today had no idea what she was in for. Denise Walsh was a clinical psychologist at a local community health clinic for five years. Denise loves people and likes helping people. She soon realized that in that environment, it was more about the paperwork and the policies then it was about the people. Denise left there and now serves people in a way that she has always dreamed about. She encourages people to take action on their God-sized dreams. For me, this podcast turned into a therapy session. Denise is a business coach and has a heart for kicking your butt and helping you grow. She teaches the skills to design your dream life and knows we can truly thrive in all areas of our lives.

Show Notes:

• [03:35] Denise got her Masters in Clinical Psychology from Wheaton College. Throughout high school, she was a counselor at a youth group mission camp.
• [04:16] She then worked with foster kids in New York City. She fell in love with those kids. They were in and out of homes and certainly had traumatic experiences and didn't realize their own potential.
• [05:04] She then got a job working in community health, and it turned out to be a burnout experience. She was overworked and underpaid. She worked with a population that didn't really want help. Her passion for her career and life was starting to fade.
• [06:16] She knew she needed to find something different and became a distributor for a health and wellness company. Over the past 13 years, she has built a worldwide team and impacted people in a way that she never could at her previous job.
• [08:08] She helps people figure out what they want and create an action plan to get it. We can't make a pivot if we're not clear about what we want.
• [09:54] You can thrive in your family and in your business. You don't have to choose.
• [10:19] Sometimes we get intimidated by God-sized goals and self-sabotage ourselves.
• [12:37] It's that one step in front of the other that leads to the next step. When we take steps the next one comes.
• [14:37] When you tap into your passion and excitement, it's natural for you. You'll find the energy and the courage to take the next step.
• [15:56] Get clear on what you want in the seven areas of life which are family, friendship, finances, health, hobbies, business, and giving back. Write where you are now and then imagine what it would be like if it were a 10.
• [17:13] Once you know your priorities, you can actually go out and do them. Put it on your calendar.
• [19:33] Find the goal you want to make happen and rearrange your schedule to do so. Know what you're going to do every day.
• [21:21] Be intentional with your time and ask for help. It's okay to say no to things.
• [24:45] Setting your internal GPS is deciding what goal is next for you and speaking life into it. Talk about it in a way that it is happening.
• [26:01] Melissa wants to find the time to work on her next book. Denise helps her work through setting her internal GPS.
• [28:18] Watch out for limiting beliefs and self-sabotage.
• [30:53] Melissa wants to live in a way where she has things to offer the world. She doesn't want to just drift. She wants to have a plan.
• [31:45] Denise shares a couple of inspirational stories of people that she has coached.
• [35:34] Be intentional with the gifts that God has given you and say yes to that spark everyday.
• [36:52] Denise also has a workbook that will help you really dig deep.
• [39:30] Your kids can learn from you that they can love life and reach their goals.
• [40:36] Denise tackles the lightning round questions.

Thanks for joining us on Ordinary People Ordinary Things. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast on iTunes and leave a nice review. Just like your mother taught you.

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• Denise on Instagram
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• Erma Bombeck

Dr. Justin Coulson is an honorary fellow at the Center for Positive Psychology at the University of Melbourne. He has three best-selling books about family life and parenting. He writes, consults, and teaches about the intersection of psychology, family, and well-being. He's a TEDx speaker and a regular TV expert guest. He's a contributor to major Australian media outlets. He's also contributed to the New York Times.

He had a successful radio career and then returned to school in his late 20's where he earned his psychology degree and his PhD in psychology. Since then he has written multiple peer-reviewed journal articles and scholarly book chapters. He is also a highly sought-after international speaker delivering keynote speeches and workshops to boost well-being and improve relationships for parents, teachers, students and employees and students.

I discovered Dr. Coulson through a friend's social media. When I saw his post, I just thought that he was doing good. He's not yelling fire in a crowded theater, he's getting to the heart of our teens. He's specifically getting to the heart of our daughters, because he's the father of six daughters. Dr. Coulson has written a book called Miss-connection: Why Your Teenage Daughter 'Hates' You, Expects the World and Needs to Talk. You are going to love this interview and how he gets emotional talking about our girls.

Show Notes:

• [07:55] During conferences Dr. Coulson is consistently getting messages about how the world is destroying our teenagers. His experience is that they aren't dealing with these mass challenges.
• [09:14] The problems facing our teens are actually more mundane problems.
• [09:50] Parents and teens are just wanting to connect and get along.
• [10:29] Miss-Connection is ultimately about the deep desire our children have to be close to us and we have to be close to them.
• [11:59] Dr. Coulson interviewed and surveyed around 400 teenage girls. Their voices are front and center in the book.
• [13:17] Why we parent matters more than how we parent.
• [15:29] If my why is around developing this child into the best human that they can be that means that when they're being challenging I'm going to be more compassionate.
• [18:36] We need to see our children's behavior as opportunities to connect. When a child is being challenged, they are going to be challenging. We need to find the best in them.
• [20:44] You can show your child that if you can name it, you can tame it.
• [21:41] Keep giving our children these moments because they do want the connection. Give them some time and space and keep trying.
• [22:52] We need to be our kids' ally and have stretched out arms and compassion.
• [27:08] Friendship challenges are difficult for our daughters. There is a constant realignment for girls in their peer groups.
• [28:32] Girls are much more likely to ruminate about relationships.
• [29:52] Research tells us that our daughters need to go through an identity finding process during adolescence. Kids need an opportunity to do the deep inner work that comes from quiet contemplation. There are too many distractions.
• [31:46] The whole family should come together and talk about values.
• [36:02] When we invest the time, kids feel the love.

Thanks for joining us on Ordinary People Ordinary Things. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast on iTunes and leave a nice review. Just like your mother taught you.

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• Happy Families on Facebook
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• Miss-connection: Why Your Teenage Daughter 'Hates' You, Expects the World and Needs to Talk
• Other Books by Justin Coulson
• Miss-Connection on Happy Families
• Raising rebels | Dr. Justin Coulson | TEDxMelbourne
• Bringing Up Girls: Practical Advice and Encouragement for Those Shaping the Next Generation of Women

She's back. I hope you all are happy. It does something to my psyche and my confidence level when I hear "could you have her on more often" or " tell Katherine to get her own podcast" after having Katherine Diggs on the show. Now that's hurtful, America. But I get why you want her on here. Katherine was a guest on season 1, season 2, and now she's here for season 3. If you enjoy the show today, go back and listen to Katherine on season 1 and season 2 . Those are really great episodes.

Katherine is a nurse practitioner who worked for many years at a very good OBGYN practice here in town. She left this practice to go work at the health clinic. A month later, she said it was one of the most fulfilling things ever. She's working with people and especially teenagers on the issues that are the most near and dear to her heart. Her work is about sex and our bodies. She hears stories in the clinic that are horrifying and heartbreaking. She is kind, knowledgeable, and sensitive. She speaks in a way that we get.

The thing I like about her the most is that she really loves our kids. She just loves young people. She wants them to live safe, long, and healthy lives. She wants them to make smart decisions and feel valued. She wants them to know their worth in ways where they don't have to demonstrate it with their body. I have Katherine on every season because I trust Katherine. She's someone who you can believe in. This episode isn't for little ears, but it will be helpful for teens.

• [03:39] On social media, Katherine is referred to as Nurse Katherine.
• [04:13] We have listener questions for Katherine to answer.
• [04:31] It's fine to use proper anatomical names for body parts. If you have special family terms it's fine to use those too, but it's good for kids to know the proper names of their body parts.
• [07:51] Start the precedent early on to talk about all things.
• [08:10] A question about establishing a more open relationship with kids and teens when it comes to talking about sex.
• [08:50] Communication is everything. Rules without relationship equals rebellion.
• [09:12] Open communication has got to start at ground zero.
• [10:11] It's good to establish communication early and be comfortable and natural when it comes to talking about sex.
• [11:34] There seems to be pressure on boys when it comes to sexual practices.
• [11:59] People are wearing condoms less these days.
• [12:23] It's when we shame kids or make them think we are disappointed that they shut down. We should keep trying to talk to them in a positive way.
• [13:10] Each child has a different key that opens up communication.
• [13:42] An eighth grade teacher calls in about wanting sex education taught in their school.
• [14:04] This is an issue in schools and parents are divided on it.
• [14:47] Don't bury your head in the sand. Talk about everything.
• [15:16] Katherine goes into schools and talks to kids. She's a nurse practitioner and a parent. She now works in public health.
• [16:09] Sex education has become so political that many states don't have programs. Many existing programs are dated and not realistic. The abstinence based education isn't always helpful for kids who need practical information about what they are already doing.
• [20:48] When Katherine talks at high schools, there's always a group who stays behind and has questions. She said young women come up to her and say they think they might be pregnant, and they're scared, and they can't talk to their mothers.
• [23:18] Is abstinence a pipe dream? No dream for your child is a pipe dream. You also have to be with your kid and talk through whatever is going on.
• [24:11] You can't talk too much to your child. Find out what the issues are and talk to them. Reinforce safety when you need to.
• [26:07] People are wearing less condoms these days. We still need to talk about safe sex. There is a stigma around getting condoms.
• [29:09] Is a child's new preoccupation with sex normal? If there was abuse, it needs to be addressed immediately.
• [30:30] If your kid has a sudden change of behavior, look at their browser history and see what they've been looking at.
• [31:53] If your kid is acting out, they could be watching porn. Watching porn can become their normal expectation of sex. Find out and get help from counselors etc.
• [33:33] Porn today is really graphic and humiliating.
• [34:19] Find out where your child feels more comfortable and talk to them.
• [35:18] Be aware of the incognito button on the browser. Kids can also get exposure from other kids and devices.
• [36:32] You know something is going on. You need to get to the bottom of it. Do the hard work for them.
• [37:23] HIV is still an issue. There are HIV positive teenagers who didn't know their status. Regular kids are becoming HIV positive. Get them tested, because there is treatment for it.
• [39:26] We want our kids to have long and full lives.

Thanks for joining us on Ordinary People Ordinary Things. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast on iTunes and leave a nice review. Just like your mother taught you.

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• How to Talk to Your Kids About Sex Without Crying
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• Good Pictures Bad Pictures: Porn-Proofing Today's Young Kids

This is the first time I've rereleased an episode. I'm interupting our season on teens, social media and sex to rerelease an episode that came out around Christmas time with my friend Billie Jean Johnson. This was a powerful episode. I heard from so many of you that this episode moved you, challenged you, and made you think that you might want something more or different from your life. Billie Jean was facing one of the hardest challenges of her life, and she lost. At least, here on Earth.

On Thursday February 13th, Billie Jean took her last breath. Now she is probably healthier and happier than I've ever seen her. Which is saying something, because I'm pretty sure Billie Jean was happy 99% of the time. If you're looking at Earthly standards then I guess Billie Jean lost. If you're looking at what cancer wins and what people lose, then she lost. If you're anything like me, her husband, or her kids you know she didn't lose. She won everything she was fighting for.

To remember Billie Jean Johnson, I'm rereleasing this episode. I'm going to miss Billie Jean. I'm going to take with me lessons that she taught me when we sat face to face towards the end of her life. If you haven't listened to this episode, here's your chance. Think about this family this week. We'll have a service for her this coming Saturday the 22nd. No doubt, it will be packed. She touched so many people. Her work here is done and ours is just beginning. This is for Billie Jean.

Show Notes:

• [07:50] Billy Jean's go-to meal in Lufkin would be a turkey burger from Mom's Diner.
• [07:57] Friendship means family and being there through the good and the ugly.
• [08:23] Every one Billie Jean knows has risen to this season.
• [09:16] Billie Jean has many roles and the actress who would play her might surprise you.
• [09:47] Billie Jean has always been an optimistic person. She believes that God is good and only gives good gifts.
• [10:22] Her perspective on life is taking care of what God has put her here to do and nothing else matters.
• [11:43] Her family is her greatest testimony, so she's letting them see how she can live and die graciously.
• [14:15] Billie Jean had a great health report from the doctor. Two weeks later they went back to the doctor, and found out that the tumors had grown. There were so many tumors that Billie Jean wouldn't make it through the surgery to remove them.
• [15:20] When Billie Jean and her husband heard this news, they were shocked.
• [16:25] Billie Jean doesn't worry about the fear of dying, it's what she leaves behind that has to wrestle with the pain.
• [17:20] Years ago, Billie Jean dealt with losing her dad from addiction and her sister's addiction. She then took care of her sister's children. The whole experience was an emotional roller coaster for Billie Jean.
• [18:31] She cried out to God, and he took the pain away from her.
• [21:31] She can't complain about cancer or ask God for anymore, because of all the wonderful things he has done for her in this life.
• [22:29] Billie Jean trusts that God's going to help take care of her family. She believes that whatever the reason for all of this is that God's fulfilling his purpose.
• [23:19] Moms want to prepare their children as much as they can, but they don't really know how. We don't know what we're doing, but what we do know is that we're going to be gracious to each other.
• [25:48] Billie Jean's relationship with God is very sweet.
• [25:43] When she is really having a hard day, she listens to worship music and let's her family know she loves them.
• [27:39] God's love is so rich. If your emotions aren't benefiting, you try something else. Don't stop talking to him, and he won't leave you stranded.
• [29:28] Billie Jean used to think that she was introverted and didn't have friends, but the love and support of her community has been overwhelming.
• [29:58] Treat everybody well, because you never know when you'll need to be treated well.
• [31:58] For Billy Jean, material things mean absolutely nothing. Her perspective is shifting from worldly to heavenly. Spiritual awareness and relationships are what matter to her now.
• [35:33] If everybody got to choose how they live, they wouldn't be so overburdened with their schedules. The big things are teaching your children how to deal with everyday life.
• [36:31] Stop and let your children see you for who you really are.
• [39:00] Everything that was once important has shifted.
• [41:26] Billie Jean used to be the girliest girl ever.
• [42:09] Billie Jean shares her favorite uplifting songs and scriptures with us. John 14:27 and Joshua 1:9
• [43:21] Her family is being strong for her, and she knows that it's hard.

Thanks for joining us on Ordinary People Ordinary Things. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast on iTunes and leave a nice review. Just like your mother taught you.

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• INK Replacing What Stained You With What Can Change You
• The Goodness of God
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There's a running list of things I don't understand and one of them is the internet. The internet is constantly changing. It goes deep and wide. Another thing I don't understand is teenagers. We may just use the internet for the things that we normally do like podcasts, shopping Facebook, and the rest. But teenagers, what do they do on the internet? Do they feel the same as we do and just use the internet for Amazon Prime orders, social posts, and reading safe blogs?

I may not understand teens and I may not understand the vastness of the internet, but I've come to my senses when it comes to teens and the World Wide Web. We can't bury our heads in the sand. That is why Christina Jontra is the perfect guest for today's show and today's times. Christina has a background in teaching and technology. When working in a school, she noticed an alarming trend with kids internet use and being preyed on by predators. YouTube, social media, and games with chat are all tools that predators can use to patiently groom our children for a disastrous meeting.

The internet is also permanent. Most of us don't have to worry about the dumb things we did as teens or preteens following us around, but our kids do. There are also dangers of accidentally stumbling on porn or graphic violence. There are also issues with kids being bullied or feeling left out of things that can impact their self esteem. This is why Christina started Neptune Navigate. She educates parents, kids, and teens on how to navigate in this digital age. We talk about when a kid should get a mobile device, how to monitor kids usage, ways to educate you and your teen, and how to find out more by asking Christina questions.

Show Notes:

• [05:33] Christina was the director of digital learning at Grace Community School in Tyler, TX.
• [06:48] Her school had an iPad program where each student got an iPad. Christina felt such responsibility turning the kids loose on the internet. A young girl was being harassed by a boy through the messaging app Kik.
• [08:14] Kik only keeps 50 interactions. The boy in question wasn't doing it. Someone had stolen his likeness.
• [09:56] Christina wanted the email account attached to that boy's account. Kik a Canadian company wouldn't share it.
• [10:32] Christina's husband overhears some kids talking about pretending to be older than they are on Kik.
• [11:00] They informed the kids' parents.
• [13:09] Christina discovers how patient sexual predators can be. A predator played games online with a young girl for years before coming to her town and raping her. The young woman spent her senior year of high school testifying in three trials.
• [13:38] Christina began reading and researching this. She spent hours researching and started talking to parents about things they could do at home to help keep their kids safe.
• [14:55] The young woman who was raped decided to also talk to the parents.
• [15:44] Mobile devices can give predators easy access to our kids.
• [16:50] After eight years, Christina quit her job and decided to help educate parents and children how to better navigate this digital world.
• [17:27] They launched a year ago as a research library. Now they are going to put everything out for free. They also have a school program.
• [19:30] There is no magic bullet or wall high enough to keep the bad stuff off.
• [21:11] Sit down with your kids and look at the phone together. Look at the camera roll. Kids take pictures of things they like.
• [21:50] See who your kids follow on social media and who follows them. Ask who people are and check your kids privacy settings.
• [22:17] When kids first get on social media make their account private.
• [24:59] Put restrictions on what your kids can install and monitor their texts.
• [26:42] YouTube exposes kids to lots of danger.
• [28:00] Pedophiles hang out on YouTube and find videos of kids doing things like gymnastics.
• [30:24] Have kids work online in the front room not only in their bedrooms.
• [31:50] Trafficked kids are targeted through online activities and mobile devices.
• [34:00] Texas now has a law covering sextortion.
• [35:18] Maybe our kids are screaming to be seen, and we should put the device down more often and look them in the eye.
• [37:10] Digital citizenship is how to use email and digital life correctly.
• [38:03] Social media remains, even after we are gone. We need to talk to our kids about what they do online.
• [42:41] If we could get an army of mom's to report porn on Instagram it would be effective.
• [43:58] You are more. The number of likes does not matter. Look up from your phone.
• [44:52] No devices in bedrooms. Everyone charges devices in a safe place(mom's room). Every family should have a technology curfew at 9:00 at night.
• [46:29] No phones until 8th grade. Collect phones at sleepovers. Teach kids the party still happens without pictures.
• [52:14] Christina loves carne asada from Don Juan's.
• [53:31] When you work at home, you've got to make that phone call to have and make new friends.
• [54:11] Find out what Christina and Leslie Jones have in common.

Thanks for joining us on Ordinary People Ordinary Things. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast on iTunes and leave a nice review. Just like your mother taught you.

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About 10 years ago, I wasn't doing any of the things I'm doing now. I wasn't writing books. I wasn't hosting podcasts. I was sitting at home and watching other women go first. A lot of us find someone who is doing what we want to do and we follow them and root for them and listen closely when they speak. I was at home watching Rebekah Lyons. I've loved her from the moment I heard her speak. This might surprise some of you, after hearing this interview, because we couldn't be more different. She is all love, light, kindness and gracefulness.

I've watched her long enough to know that what she speaks she walks. That's all you can ask for. Put people in front of me who are paving the way with truth, candor, and authenticity. She is all of these things. As we wrap up the series on rest, sabbath, pause, uncluttering, slowing down and being intentional we couldn't have found a better guest to end it with.

Rebekah Lyons is a national speaker and bestselling author of Rhythms of Renewal: Trading Stress and Anxiety for a Life of Peace and Purpose, You Are Free: Be Who You Already Are and Freefall to Fly: A Breathtaking Journey Toward a Life of Meaning. An old soul with a contemporary, honest voice, Rebekah reveals her own battles to overcome anxiety and depression—and invites others to discover and boldly pursue their God-given purpose from a place of freedom. Finding joy in raising a special needs child—Rebekah wears her heart on her sleeve, a benefit to friends and readers alike.

Show Notes:

• [03:05] Rebekah was one of the first people that Melissa followed on Instagram.
• [04:16] Rebekah and her husband run a non-profit.
• [06:37] The first time Rebekah spoke publicly, she was vulnerable about her journey.
• [08:50] Freefall to Fly was a chronicle of Rebekah's crash and burn. Her family moved from Atlanta to New York City. She tells a lot of stories about this season and how she wanted to run back to the South.
• [12:11] God put her in a place that she wasn't excited about, but those were the transformative times in her life.
• [13:02] Rebekah started experiencing claustrophobia. She would take stairs to avoid elevators and stopped riding the subway.
• [13:31] She was outgoing and energetic but became a shell of who she was because she couldn't go anywhere.
• [14:12] There are different panic attack triggers for different people.
• [15:50] Rebekah had a relapse, but then had to ask if she was a fraud in her next book. Her patterns of chronic stress had to be reformed.
• [17:50] There's renewal happening everyday.
• [18:52] Don't do the same thing over and over and expect it to be different.
• [20:09] We have to do the work. We can't fix patterns of behavior and thinking in one day.
• [23:29] Don't settle for a story someone tries to impose on you. Ask God to remind you of the story that he has already set in motion and that's part of the healing journey.
• [25:11] We're going to talk about the four rhythms or disciplines that Rebekah feels are essential to feeling less anxiety and stress.
• [25:55] They are rest, restore, connect, and create. Rest and restore are the input rhythms that fill you up. Connect and create are the output rhythms.
• [26:09] 77% of society have physical symptoms of stress. As a result, we need to rest.
• [27:37] Life starts in rhythm. Each rhythm is a different part of our health.
• [29:50] Her book has a lot of practical ways on how to slow down.
• [30:50] We don't have to share everything. Whose validation are we seeking?
• [31:31] Our worth isn't attached to what we share with other people. We are worthy of rest and indulgence.
• [34:04] Until you get quiet you can't know what your heart needs to confess.
• [36:26] Rebekah spent two days pulling weeds. She wanted to recover the passion of her vocation. She pulled weeds like distractions.
• [39:06] Sometimes we say yes to things when we shouldn't because they crowd out what we should be doing.
• [40:07] Rebekah and her family took a big risk with their adopted daughter. They moved to Nashville. They then adopted a little girl with down syndrome and her name is Joy.
• [44:29] God was there every step of the way and knew that they were going to adopt this little girl. They have had her for 14 months. \
• [47:46] Rebekah loves Franklin Juice BomBom Acai bowls.
• [49:20] Friendship is where both people are willing to be vulnerable. Both can hear and say things to each other.
• [50:08] Who would play Rebekah in a movie?????

Thanks for joining us on Ordinary People Ordinary Things. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast on iTunes and leave a nice review. Just like your mother taught you.

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• Rebekah Lyons
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• Rhythms of Renewal: Trading Stress and Anxiety for a Life of Peace and Purpose
• You Are Free: Be Who You Already Are
• Freefall to Fly: A Breathtaking Journey Toward a Life of Meaning
• IF:Gathering
• Who Has Time for Eyeliner?
• Man's Search for Meaning
• The Book of Waking Up: Experiencing the Divine Love That Reorders a Life
• Annie Downs
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Melissa and David are here today to answer listener questions. Melissa loves it when people ask questions. We appreciate you trusting us with all of the things we'll be talking about today and on future episodes. The last couple of weeks have been dedicated to something that Melissa just can't wrap her mind around. We've been talking about being still, organizing, and decluttering our homes and our hearts, space, and putting your phone away.

If someone would have told me that in the year 1994 when David and I got married that someday David would be checking his phone while we were having conversations, and I would be checking my watch for incoming messages, I would have laughed them out of house and home. Here we are learning how to create space and balance in a way that we didn't have to learn back then. We are navigating a whole new world.

Before we dive into the listener questions, we just want to say thank you for trusting us with your questions, even though we don't have all of the answers. We do love each other very much, and we are in this marriage for the long haul. We work really hard on our marriage, so we are going to try and do the best we can with your questions. David also wanted to share that just asking the question or talking about it or hearing someone else talk it can help you feel less alone.

Show Notes:

• [06:34] Someone from Vista, California said she loves the show. Her and her husband will be married 35 years. The only way she could keep balance when the kids were young was to go away on weekends every three to four months.
• [09:00] Question from Sarah: How to get a guilt free girls night? Her husband only does stuff with her. He doesn't have any friends and doesn't go out.
• [10:27] Sarah has guilt going out, because her husband just wants to be with her.
• [11:48] David suggests Sarah's husband be supportive. One of the ways Melissa recharges is by spending time by herself or by spending time with other people.
• [12:20] When Melissa and David got married, David was jealous of her time. This has changed, because David discovered that Melissa becomes better after having time off with her friends or family.
• [14:29] It's a good idea to have moments of conversation about how important it is and be nice and treat other people well. Say thank you, and it wouldn't hurt to help him find a hobby.
• [15:19] Selena is the adoptive mother of a special-needs child. He is now an adult, and Selena is struggling with drawing lines in the sand and kind of pushing him out of the nest. At what point does she say you're ready and it's time to go?
• [17:04] We are at a double deficit when it comes to answering this question. We don't have a special needs child, and we haven't come to the season where we release our children out into the world.
• [18:00] Every situation with every child is going to be different. Seeking counseling with people who have expertise and can give true insight on your specific situation would be a good idea.
• [18:33] It seems to Melissa that you have dealt with this for so many years that you and your husband are a little off-balance on how to be alone and how to make time for one another.
• [21:45] Ellen asks how to schedule sex in your life when you and your partner have opposite schedules?
• [22:12] Men can be more flexible, try to find a time that works for Ellen. There's something romantic and life giving when the other partner is intentional.
• [25:29] It can't be pushed away for too long without having some effect.
• [27:29] Donna asks how to come to an agreement when it's time to talk about a problem? This gives her anxiety. If we don't communicate to begin with, how could we communicate about a problem?
• [28:25] Not communicating at all is a red flag. We are firm believers in marriage counseling. When there are problems, husbands don't want to go. Invest in a counselor now, before you are engulfed in flames. Dig your well before you need the water.
• [29:52] Look into the Enneagram. It's an internal GPS for who you both are.
• [31:57] Before having the tough questions, tackle easier communication. The Enneagram can really help you learn about yourself and your spouse. Schedule communication.
• [34:47] Both people need to honor and respect this. Hold up one hand like a stop sign (not talk to the hand) when it's time to stop talking about things that are escalating.
• [36:06] Jaime believes that there is a low in January. She is having a hard time with her marriage.
• [37:17] We go through seasons, but then settle back into real life and the day-to-day. The biggest thing is to be intentional with your actions, marriage, or relationships. Write down what you want to see.
• [38:59] We have a soft spot in our hearts for marriages and relationships. We feel your call Jaime.
• [39:50] When you pull back the layers, ask if you are going anywhere. We can try anything when we know that we aren't leaving.

Thanks for joining us on Ordinary People Ordinary Things. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast on iTunes and leave a nice review. Just like your mother taught you.

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A few months ago I got a book in the mail titled Uncluttered. Imagine that frozen moment in time, when I was holding this book while standing in my kitchen surrounded by, you guessed it, clutter! In spite of the stuff that creates clutter, today's podcast isn't about removing physical clutter. It's about removing noise, stress, and over commitments. This show is for anyone who wakes up from a nap and says, "I wish I could do that again."

It's for people who buy books and find them later dusty and unread. It's for those who meet God on vacation or in quiet moments and wish they had more times like that. Courtney Ellis is a writer, speaker, and mom of three. She serves alongside her husband as a Presbyterian pastor in Southern California. She is the author of Uncluttered and Almost Holy Mama. Courtney is also an advocate for minimal-ish living, a crossword puzzle nerd, and a candy connoisseur.

This episode will hit home for a lot of you, because it's about discovering that there is room and space in our lives for the things that matter. We just have to sometimes make that room. Courtney shares her journey with getting rid of physical, digital, and time clutter and learning to let go and rest. She shares how to make it a personal experience depending on the seasons and preferences of your family. It's all about living with less to create more. This is a fun, practical, and sweet interview. I know you're going to love Courtney as much as I do.

Show Notes:

• [03:20] Courtney grew up in the Midwest. She's from Wisconsin. She now lives in Southern California with her family where she has a fear of earthquakes.
• [04:38] Her oldest son is seven. Her middle son is 3 and 1/2. She also has a nine month old baby girl.
• [04:59] Courtney and her husband are co-pastors in a Presbyterian Church. They take turns being home with the kids.
• [06:08] It's easy to burn out if you aren't caring for your marriage and caring for your soul. Simplicity, Sabbath practice, and resting are even more important for those of us who serve in ministry.
• [06:53] Courtney has written two books, and they both came out the same year.
• [07:43] Writing is what fills Courtney's cup back up.
• [08:09] The lessons of Courtney's books are universal, because they aren't how to books, they are me to books. They are invitations to practice spiritual practices and live with less, so God can give you more.
• [09:29] Uncluttered is about going from overwhelmed to rest. Her schedule, closets, and digital media were too full. Something had to change, because she couldn't go on that way any longer.
• [10:04] The book is all about less. It's about how she pared down her digital life and cleaned out her closets. The second half of the book was the biggest surprise to her, because she started writing about less and God started teaching her about more.
• [10:36] God wanted to give her amazing things, but her schedule had no room. It's the story of more to less to more.
• [15:24] Courtney and her family began the journey by stopping. They stopped buying non-essentials, and they stopped putting things on their calendar.
• [16:10] They also have a sacred family Sabbath. They rest, play, and nap. They have to say no to a lot to make it happen, but it reset every other area in their lives.
• [19:26] Possessions aren't neutral. Everything we have takes time to store, care for, and manage. Each possession was stealing time from Courtney. She wanted that valuable time back.
• [22:28] Uncluttering the soul and the spirit has changed everything for Courtney and her family. She also pared-down social media. We can make the choices whether we want to give our time away or not.
• [25:49] What would you do if the end result was hearing God better?
• [28:46] For Courtney, it was a journey of God being willing to meet her where she is in her life now.
• [29:26] Courtney would meditate on scripture in the shower or pray while she was folding laundry.
• [30:06] We don't have to wait, God will meet us where we are.
• [33:00] We wrap up with three fun questions that may or may not include Asian Box, sitting with someone in a messy house, and Michelle Williams.

Thanks for joining us on Ordinary People Ordinary Things. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast on iTunes and leave a nice review. Just like your mother taught you.

Links and Resources:

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• Autographed Copy of Eat Cake. Be Brave.
• Eat Cake. Be Brave. Extended Book Trailer
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• INK Replacing What Stained You With What Can Change You
• Courtney B. Ellis
• Uncluttered: Free Your Space, Free Your Schedule, Free Your Soul
• Almost Holy Mama: Life-Giving Spiritual Practices for Weary Parents
• Courtney Ellis on Twitter
• Courtney Ellis on Facebook
• Sleeping at Last