When another husband called Wade out of the blue to tell him both their wives were spending time together on a vacation that very moment, Wade Ferris knew the writing was on the wall. With candor and vulnerability, Wade shares his story of learning that his wife of 23 years is a lesbian during the pandemic. A dedicated father and husband, Wade tried for decades to unlock the stalemate and repair the lack of intimacy in his marriage. By his own admission, the disconnect from his wife made him resentful and "not much fun to be around." He went on a mission to correct everything his wife complained was wrong with him, at last becoming what she called, "the perfect husband." But, as he soon found out, this was not enough to save their mixed orientation marriage. 

Wade is currently writing a book about the straight spouse experience. 

Podcaster, Writer and coming out Coach Anne-Marie Zanzal shares her journey to coming out as a late-life lesbian after decades in a straight marriage. With the hope of building understanding and healing for straight husbands, she sheds light on the experiences of women coming out later in life and answers their questions. 

About Anne-Marie: https://annemariezanzal.com

Coming Out and Beyond Podcast: https://annemariezanzal.com/coming-out-stories-beyond-podcast/

Karen Slater had a lot to forgive her closeted husband for, not the least of which is the impact his sexual rejection had on her. It created profound insecurity about her body and sparked years of yo-yo dieting, trying to reignite their sex life, only to have her efforts fail and the cycle repeat. In this conversation, she shares all she had to forgive, why she chose to forgive it, and how she was able to, all while insisting what her husband did in his efforts to maintain his closet were not ok.

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Author Ann Anderson Evans shares her story of loss and healing after she discovered her husband’s body the morning after he took his own life. After a decades long struggle with his gender identity and her husband's suicide, Ann has worked to make sense of her life, the man she married, and the hidden pain he carried. Ann's story is nuanced, complicated, and defies expectations from every angle. 

Website: www.annandersonevans.com

Book: https://annandersonevans.com/the-sweet-pain-of-being-alive/

Author and Coach Sally Srok shares her experience of losing herself in a 20-year mixed orientation marriage, learning her husband was gay, and how she rebuilt her life after divorce. After a birthday trip on a cattle drive reawakened her sense of self, Sally found the strength to confront her unhappy marriage, pursue a divorce, and keep her children's lives as stable as possible through it all. But it wasn't until she reexamined a draft of her book, Bonus Round, that she realized she still had to face her anger.

Website: www.sallysrok.com

Book: Amazon.com: Bonus Round: A Gay Ex-Husband, a Divorce, and a Life Reimagined eBook : Srok, Sally

Today we talk to Licensed Professional Counselor and expert in treating sexual betrayal Michelle Mays. She is the author of The Betrayal Bind: How to Heal When the Person You Love the Most Hurts you the Worst. We discuss the emotional and psychological impact of sexual betrayal on betrayed partners, the four types of gaslighting and their effects, how shame operates in both partners in the relationships, and how to heal.

Website: www.michellemays.com

Book: The Betrayal Bind: How to Heal When the Person You Love the Most Hurts You the Worst: Mays LPC CSAT-S, Michelle: 9781949481778: Amazon.com: Books

In part 2 of our deep dive into forgiveness, we seek a spiritual perspective with Methodist Pastor Carter Cortelyou. We talk about why it can be so hard to let go of the identity of being a straight spouse, what lies on the other side of forgiveness, and why forgiveness can make us feel vulnerable. 

Carter Cortelyou is a United Methodist clergy person who has been serving congregations in Michigan since 1990. He currently pastors Novi (long “I”) United Methodist Church in the suburbs of Detroit. His ex-wife came out to him in October 2009 after 24 years of marriage. He married his wife Andrea In September 2013. Carter is a past Board President of OurPath and serves as the Metro Detroit support contact.

It's no secret that people who have been betrayed often have a hard time forgiving the person who betrayed them. Resistance to "letting them off the hook" is understandable. In this illuminative conversation with Professor Everette Worthington, we learn the science and research behind forgiveness - what it is, how to do it, and why it matters for our health and wellbeing. 

Everett Worthington is Commonwealth Professor Emeritus at Virginia Commonwealth University. Ev (which he prefers to be called) notes that his salary is retired but he isn't. He still maintains a license as a Clinical Psychologist in Virginia, and he has published over 45 books and 500 scholarly publications. Currently, he is completing a couple of books (self-forgiveness and couple therapy), and he usually publishes about 20 articles a year, mostly related to forgiveness, humility, and other positive psychology topics. He says that his life mission is "to do all I can to promote forgiveness in every willing heart, home, and homeland."

Website: evworthington-forgiveness.com

Free workbooks: reach.discoverforgiveness.org

Michael Slepian is the leading expert on the psychology of secrets and author of The Secret Life of Secrets. Slepian has authored more than fifty articles on secrecy, truth, and deception. We talk about why people keep their sexual orientation and gender identity secret (among other secrets), how secrets impact both the secret keeper and those that secrets are kept from, and whether or not it’s ethical to keep a secret from someone who has a stake in knowing the truth (such as a spouse or partner).

Website: https://www.columbia.edu/~ms4992/

Dr. Gary Bischof is a professor and coordinator of the Marriage, Couple and Family Counseling Program in the Dept of Counselor Education and Counseling Psychology at Western Michigan University. He is a licensed marriage and family therapist specializing in the treatment of couples navigating the gender transition of one of the partners. In this episode, he discusses the pitfalls for couples negotiating gender transition, the factors that can lead to couples staying together, and what competent couples therapy looks like for couples in this situation.