How do you teach someone how to be sober? Do you teach theory? Behavior? Practical skills? Or should you invite them into an entirely different way of life, and a web of relationships?
This challenge faced by addictions counselors and recovery specialists overlaps heavily with the priestly task of catechizing people on their journey into the Orthodox Christian church.
Moses-Rhys Pasimio is an Orthodox Addictions Counselor from Portland, OR. Ben Klimek is an Orthodox residential counselor at a homeless shelter in Northeast Indiana. They met through the Lord of Spirits podcast, and bonded over the Orthodox Christian faith, and shared convictions about how to help those that society would rather ignore.
In this episode, we tackle questions like, How do we form people? How do you invite someone into one way of life, from another? How do you do this in a clinical context, and how is this similar to a church context?
Working with the homeless, Ben has discovered the absolute need for a "Web of relationships" to orient a person towards sobriety, and ultimately Christ.
We also runs into the challenge of defining sobriety success. Ben says one of the problems with teaching good sobriety and right spirituality is the "problem of success." When we default to measuring success by behaviors or outcomes, we fall short. "It's not sober enough to just stop [using drugs]," says Rhys. "At some point there's no more things left to quit, and all your energy is going into maintaining the 'quit-ness,' and that's not the same as character growth, introspection, or healing. And it's not the same as pursuing anything, and that's the thing that needs to be present to complete this all; you need to be pursuing something. That is the unique offering of faith...we have this opportunity to pursue unity with Christ."
Rhys says, “The measure of success needs to be more sophisticated than just, ‘don’t do drugs’”
Ben reflects on people stating a goal of, “I just want to be happy,” to which he says, “Well, how do you ‘happy’?” Happiness is a byproduct of something else, of moving in a certain direction.
Rhys agrees that, “A good growth arc in any context is into more relationship.”
We reflect on how good learning is not merely intellectual. It’s not enough to learn what sobriety theoretically is, anymore than it saves a person to know information about the Trinity.
“There’s this idea that now that we’ve got access to limitless information, if I possess all this information, that somehow makes me sober,” says Ben, before saying how much more effective it was for his growth to undergo the challenge of naming one thousand gifts.
Real actual growth is always going to frustrate any rubric of measurable outcomes,” Rhys. “Real growth is not numbers; in a way it can’t be charted or measured.”
Ben says, “If [all you do] is read the Big Book…that’s not going to make you sober.”
We discuss how there is no sustainable mental health or spirituality without gratitude.
This podcast relies on the partnership of listeners - especially with dollars! Please visit www.patreon.com/outercircle to partner with this show!
Rhys Pasimio can be found through patreon.com/outercircle and on instagram at @newpatterncounseling and is always happy to dialogue with listeners bringing honest questions.
Ben Klimek cannot be found on social media, but you can email him at [email protected] or visit his writer's site at david-desjardins.com.
This episode is sponsored in part by Fircrest Behavioral Health, www.fircrestbh.com
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