Twelve hundred Israelis were killed by Hamas. Perhaps 15,000 Gazans have died as Israel has pursued its attacker, many Hamas fighters among them. But those numbers alone do not help us understand the concept of proportionality in international law. Ben Wittes of Lawfare is here to help us think through the idea. Plus, delving into "Homonationalism." Also on the show, Rudy has defamed and also suffers from having lesser fame than his old client, Donald Trump.

Produced by Joel Patterson and Corey Wara

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