Natalie Ma and Melody Jung are roommates-turned-business partners who founded Hangover Coffee. Find the brand on Instagram, TikTok and Facebook.

They’re big fans of Philip Wang, so we bring him in to offer advice. He’s the co-founder of Wong Fu Productions and owner of Bopomofo, a bubble tea cafe in San Gabriel, California. They talk about the benefits of bringing the co-founders’ personality into their brand content, and about how to own their power as AAPI creators. 

Karlei Ayers is the designer-at-large in this episode. She borrows from her decade-long experience of working as a designer at coffee shops, and suggests exercises to draw out Hangover Coffee’s brand voice and personality. Find Karlei on Instagram.

This season of Wireframe is supported by Adobe Express, a new web and mobile app that helps anyone create great content from thousands of templates. Learn more about this podcast at adobe.ly/wireframe. (Most of the guests appearing in this season are part of Adobe’s CoCreate program.)

Find a transcript of this episode here.