Phoenix and Flame Podcast

Susan Gold remembers coming home from school one day and seeing her father's clothing flying out the second-floor window onto the front lawn. She raced to pick up each piece as fast as her mother could throw it down, trying to keep her father in the house, because she didn't think she'd survive without what she calls his "pseudo protection." That's the kind of chaos Susan grew up in as the middle child of five, and it's exactly the kind of toxic family story I wanted on Phoenix and Flame, because so many of my listeners are living some version of it right now.

Professionally, Susan Gold is the kind of name-dropper you actually believe: she attached celebrity talent to projects in New York and Los Angeles, talked Andy Warhol into an on-camera Pontiac commercial, helped launch Fox News Channel at Roger Ailes' request, and got Ben Stiller, Jack Black, Taylor Swift, and David Beckham interviewed by cartoon characters for Disney Channel. But the reason she's on this show is the book she wrote about what came before all of that, "Toxic Family: Transforming Childhood Trauma into Adult Freedom," and the years of addiction, clinical depression, and narcissistic relationships that came after it.

We talk about the difference between forgiving your parents for what happened to them and still honoring what happened to you, why the "point one finger, three point back at you" axiom can trap empaths in abusive relationships, and how Susan finally learned to stop carrying weight that was never hers to carry. If you've ever felt like you had to be perfect to be safe, this conversation is for you.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-rj2AuUvUc

In this episode

• Why understanding where your parents came from doesn't cancel out your own experience of what they did
• How growing up in chaos and unpredictability teaches you to stay perfect, quiet, and constantly on guard
• Why "point one finger and three come back at you" can quietly trap an empath in a relationship with a narcissist
• The moment Susan's marriage ended, and the year-long "no eye contact, only in writing" period that followed
• How to stop carrying weight, guilt, and responsibility that was never yours to carry in the first place
• Why it can take a full decade of real work to heal from childhood trauma, and why that's not a failure

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet Susan Gold, author of "Toxic Family"
• (04:16) Growing up the middle child of five in a toxic, competitive home
• (09:25) The three-year separation from her mother that started the unpeeling
• (13:03) The polished-cabinet story: trying to earn safety through perfection
• (16:31) Addiction, a decade of clinical depression, and getting real help
• (20:54) The "Saran Wrap" feeling: why authenticity felt too dangerous
• (23:24) Meeting her "Prince Charming," and the marriage that followed
• (25:23) The moment her ex-husband said, "I'm filing for divorce"
• (31:09) Why "point one finger and three come back at you" is a trap for empaths
• (34:46) Boundaries, the yard metaphor, and owning only what's actually yours
• (36:51) Where to find Susan and her retreats

About Susan Gold

Susan Gold is an author and talent producer whose career includes attaching celebrity talent to film and television projects in New York and Los Angeles, launching Fox News Channel at the request of Chair Roger Ailes, and securing A-list celebrities for Disney Channel's "Phineas and Ferb." She's also the author of "Toxic Family: Transforming Childhood Trauma into Adult Freedom" and now leads retreats, webinars, workshops, and private sessions helping people drop outdated storylines and live from authentic freedom as adults.

Learn more at SusanGold.us.

Favorite quotes "There were very few scraps of authentic love doled out. And we fought like dogs to collect them." —Susan Gold "I would talk with friends about feeling like I was layered in Saran Wrap and I couldn't really connect authentically because it felt too dangerous." —Susan Gold "This is the universe doing for you what you cannot do for yourself." —Susan Gold, on the moment her marriage ended Resources mentioned

• SusanGold.us: Susan's website, retreats, webinars, workshops, and private sessions
• "Toxic Family: Transforming Childhood Trauma into Adult Freedom" by Susan Gold

Related episodes

• Healing From Narcissistic Abuse: more on recognizing narcissistic dynamics and reclaiming your sense of self after them.
• Finding Yourself: Ascension From Childhood Dysfunction: another honest conversation about rebuilding identity after a chaotic childhood.

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

Adam Lucero went to a 2 p.m. movie by himself because he had four hours to kill in a city where he knew no one. He never saw it coming: a hard hit to the throat that he first mistook for a punch, then his arm, then his chest. By the time the lights came up, he was bleeding out on the theater floor, yelling at bystanders to call 911 while paramedics quizzed him on the president's name to keep him conscious. He woke up seven days later from a coma, six feet tall and 130 pounds, unable to walk, unable to eat without falling asleep at his plate, with the cognitive function of a four-year-old.

What Adam does with that story is the reason I wanted him on Phoenix and Flame. He had every reason, as I told him, to wrap himself in the victim cloak and wear it for the rest of his life. Instead, within a year of the attack, he ran a 4:59 mile. He talks about the moment he realized victimhood "wasn't benefiting my life in any way," the corporate job that felt like his soul being sucked out even after he'd fought so hard to get his body back, and the mindset work, energy science, and daily habits he now teaches as what he calls Superhuman performance.

We get into why spending time in total silence, no phone, no noise, is one of the most uncomfortable and most powerful things you can do for your mental health, how to actually kill procrastination instead of just feeling bad about it, and what it means to operate from commitment instead of emotion when you're trying to rebuild after trauma.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSkcsYyxfV8

In this episode

• How Adam survived being stabbed in the throat, arm, and chest in a movie theater, and the 7-day coma that followed
• Why choosing acceptance over the victim mentality, even when you have every reason to claim it, changes your trajectory
• How a single one-year goal took him from unable to walk to running a 4:59 mile
• Why a "great job" with good pay and real flexibility can still feel like your soul being sucked out, and what to do about it
• Why spending time in total silence, uncomfortable as it is, is one of the fastest paths to real growth
• The "mind linking" technique Adam uses to actually kill procrastination instead of just feeling guilty about it

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet Adam Lucero
• (02:01) The 2016 movie-theater stabbing, in Adam's own words
• (05:49) Waking up from a 7-day coma, "living off tubes"
• (08:59) Choosing acceptance over the victim mentality
• (10:37) The one-year goal that turned into a 4:59 mile
• (15:16) Why wrapping yourself in the victim cloak doesn't serve you
• (18:52) Realizing a "great" job can still feel like your soul being sucked out
• (23:59) Why spending time in silence is the key to growth, and why it's so uncomfortable
• (28:02) Food, fasting, and using fat instead of carbs for stable energy
• (31:16) The "mind linking" technique for killing procrastination
• (36:31) Where to find Adam and SuperhumanCEO.com

About Adam Lucero

Adam Lucero is a performance coach who, after surviving a near-fatal stabbing in 2016 and a seven-day coma, rebuilt his physical and cognitive health from scratch and now helps entrepreneurs and driven professionals optimize their energy, focus, and mindset, work he calls Superhuman performance.

Learn more at SuperhumanCEO.com.

Favorite quotes "I told myself, in one year I'm going to be faster, I'm going to be stronger, and I'm just going to be happier than I was before." —Adam Lucero "It's not serving me. I'm not gonna do this anymore if it's not serving me." —Adam Lucero, on letting go of the victim mentality "Once you silence your mind, anxiety, depression, any internal turmoil will vanish from your life the instant you're actually fully present in the moment." —Adam Lucero Resources mentioned

• SuperhumanCEO.com: Adam's website, client results, and where to book a call with him or his team

Related episodes

• Victory Over Quadruple Amputation: Interview with Wendy Wallace: another conversation about rebuilding a body and an identity after a sudden, violent loss.
• From Rock Bottom to Mountain Top: Interview with Kevin Palmieri: more on choosing to rebuild instead of staying in the wreckage.

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

A gentle note before you dive in: this conversation touches on suicide and addiction recovery. It's okay to pause, skip ahead, or come back to this one another time.

On the morning of June 8, 1988, Dave Albin woke up grossly addicted to drugs, alcohol, and cigarettes, in so much physical and emotional pain that he set out to end his own life. Then he thought about the three kids of the woman he was married to, and realized what he was about to do would take them down with him too. He couldn't do that. So he called Alcoholics Anonymous instead. That single decision to face fear rather than run from it eventually led him, years later, to a phone call from an AA buddy about a "fire walk," and then to twenty years as Tony Robbins' Firewalk Captain, training crowds of thousands to walk across 1,000-degree coals.

Dave is the founder of Firewalk Productions and, before that, spent almost two decades running the firewalk experience for Tony Robbins events worldwide, from Fortune 500 companies like Google and Microsoft to a world-record 12,300-person firewalk in London in 2005. His own story of getting sober, walking his first fire lane out of pure stubbornness (he didn't want to look like a coward in front of 3,500 chanting strangers), and building a career out of helping people step through fear instead of around it is one of the most direct "face it or it owns you" conversations I've had on this show.

We get into what facing fear actually does for anxiety and depression, why "the fears we don't face become our limits," and the story of a young man who'd lost both legs and firewalked on his hands, a moment Dave says showed him exactly why he was put on this earth.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Hecd0izLmQ

In this episode

• Why Dave says "fear has stolen so much" from him, and how facing it head-on changed the trajectory of his life
• The thousand-year global history of firewalking, and how Tony Robbins brought it to America
• How one call to Alcoholics Anonymous led to 35 years of continuous sobriety this June
• What actually happens physically and mentally when you walk across 1,000-degree coals (and why no one gets burned)
• How to face anxiety and depression when they feel like a gray fog you can't see past
• The moment a young man who'd lost both legs firewalked on his hands, and why Dave says that's when he knew his purpose

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet 20-year Tony Robbins Firewalk Captain Dave Albin
• (01:32) The thousand-year global history of firewalking, from India to the Indo-European warriors
• (06:02) Getting sober: "I woke up one morning and said, that's it, I'm done"
• (08:27) Finding Tony Robbins on an infomercial during a sleepless night
• (10:24) The first firewalk event: "Davey Boy's not gonna do that"
• (15:45) The stranger who talked him into just watching, then walking
• (19:06) Walking 1,000-degree coals and finding not one burn on either foot
• (23:49) From volunteer to Fire Walk Captain: 20 years with Tony Robbins, and a 2005 world record in London
• (29:49) "Fear is a liar": facing anxiety and depression instead of letting them become your jailer
• (31:45) The college athlete who lost both legs and firewalked on his hands
• (39:16) Where to find Dave and the Firewalk Academy

About Dave Albin

Dave Albin spent nearly 20 years working with Tony Robbins, becoming his Fire Walk Captain in 2003 and leading firewalks for crowds as large as 12,300 people. He founded Firewalk Productions in 2014 and now runs firewalk, glass walk, and board-break experiences for companies including Google, NASA, Notre Dame, Microsoft, and Heineken, along with his annual Firewalk Academy for people who want to bring the experience to their own organizations.

Learn more at FirewalkAdventures.com.

Favorite quotes "The fears I don't overcome are gonna become my limits." —Dave Albin "Face everything and rise, or forget everything and run." —Dave Albin "If I can do that, what else can I do?" —Dave Albin, on what firewalking teaches the kids he's trained Resources mentioned

• FirewalkAdventures.com: Dave's website, including the annual Dave Albin Firewalk Academy held every October
• Alcoholics Anonymous, and its 12 steps and 12 traditions

Related episodes

• Navigating Addiction, Recovery, and Sobriety with a Former Addict: another honest conversation about what it takes to get and stay sober.
• The Fear Trap: more on how fear keeps us stuck, and how to walk through it instead of around it.

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

Some people quit a job. Danielle Sunberg quit big law in one sentence she didn't even plan to say. She'd just helped her team win a trial against a $6 billion judgment, and the partner on the phone told her he'd see her back in the office in two weeks. She thought about her actual office, that glass fishbowl in Washington, D.C., her stomach tightened, and "I quit" flew out of her mouth before she'd decided to say it. If you've ever felt that same tightening walking toward a job that looks perfect on paper, this conversation is for you.

Danielle is a wellness entrepreneur, transformational coach, and keynote speaker, and a former corporate litigator who spent years doing everything she'd been taught would guarantee lifelong happiness: work hard, get the prestigious job, win the case. She had all of it and still felt misaligned, so she went looking for why, and turned that search into her book "Atlas of Being." We talk about the persona she'd built as a "big law DC attorney," why the risk of staying eventually outweighed the risk of leaving, and what she learned traveling to Thailand and Greece with no one around who knew her as anything but herself.

We also get into her idea of "empty words," the agreements we sign onto without meaning to, and how learning to hear your own inner voice, what she calls the space underneath your thoughts, is the real first step toward realignment. If you've been quietly building a life that looks right from the outside but feels wrong from the inside, Danielle's story is a good place to start questioning it.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evkA8FDBOJ4

In this episode

• Why "I quit" can fly out of your mouth before you've consciously decided to say it, and what that tells you
• How to tell when the risk of staying in a job has finally outweighed the risk of leaving it
• Why traveling somewhere no one knows your resume can help you peel away a persona you've outgrown
• The difference between having a thought and believing a thought, and why that distinction changes everything
• What "empty words" are (the agreements you never actually signed) and how to stop co-signing other people's expectations
• How to hear your own inner voice, or as Danielle calls it, "the space underneath our thoughts"

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet former Big Law attorney Danielle Sunberg
• (04:19) The trial, the $6 billion judgment, and the "I quit" that flew out before she planned it
• (08:20) The big-law-DC-attorney persona, and what it costs to keep it propped up
• (10:32) What opened up traveling to Thailand and Greece, where no one knew her old story
• (12:11) Why the risk of staying finally outweighed the risk of leaving
• (16:47) The frog-in-the-pot problem: how we stay in situations that keep getting a little hotter
• (19:09) The "space underneath our thoughts": learning to hear your own inner voice
• (25:29) The chicken-restaurant story in Thailand and the lesson in not projecting your framework onto others
• (30:36) The storm on the boat in Greece: two people, one experience, two totally different realities
• (34:27) "Empty words": the agreements we never actually signed
• (41:44) Where to find Danielle and her book, "Atlas of Being"

About Danielle Sunberg

Danielle Sunberg is a wellness entrepreneur, transformational coach, and keynote speaker. A former corporate litigator at an award-winning Washington, D.C. law firm, she left the profession after successfully defending a client at trial against a $6 billion judgment, and documented her journey of self-discovery in her book "Atlas of Being."

Learn more at DanielleSunberg.com.

Favorite quotes "Who we are in this moment does not need to be who we remain. Something strange happens in adulthood where we believe we are done becoming ourselves." —Danielle Sunberg, from "Atlas of Being" "The risk of staying at the law firm was higher for me than the risk of leaving, because I had reached my threshold of what I was willing to tolerate as far as suffering." —Danielle Sunberg "Empty words are things we say that we don't believe. They are the agreements that we don't sign, and they have no power." —Danielle Sunberg, from "Atlas of Being" Resources mentioned

• DanielleSunberg.com: Danielle's website
• "Atlas of Being" by Danielle Sunberg
• "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle
• "The Four Agreements" by Don Miguel Ruiz

Related episodes

• Why Your Midlife 'Crisis' Might Actually Be Burnout: another conversation about the body finally forcing a reckoning with a career that no longer fits, and what to do the moment you notice it.
• Overcoming Burnout, Hustle Culture, and Redefining Success: more on walking away from the version of success you were told to want.

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

Picture a really awful day, the kind where, and I'm speaking from personal experience here, I could eat my way down through a mountain of donuts and call it coping. If you've ever punished yourself with food, treated it like your enemy, your life preserver, or your buffer against pain, you already know how tangled your relationship with food can get. Untangling exactly that is what nutrition coach Shelley Loving does for a living.

Shelley's husband had a heart attack in 2014, and three years later that scare sent her looking for a more holistic way to feed her family. She trained as an Integrative Nutrition Health Coach at the Institute for Integrative Nutrition, then became a certified culinary nutrition expert through the Academy for Culinary Nutrition in 2019, and a certified professional cook from the Ruby Online Culinary School in the summer of 2021. Along the way she realized that while she was cooking to heal her husband, she was healing herself too.

We get into why counting calories and carbs never worked for either of us, her 80-20 rule for enjoying the foods you love without guilt, how to read an ingredient list instead of a nutrition facts panel, and the three baby steps she hands anyone who feels too overwhelmed to start. Grace makes an appearance too, because as Shelley puts it, you're allowed to eat the donut.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-D8m0WUxCs

In this episode

• Why punishing yourself with food never actually works, and what to do instead of restriction
• The 80-20 rule for enjoying treats without guilt or shame
• How a little Sunday planning (like laying out your outfits for the week) saves time, money, and stress at the grocery store
• Why you should read the ingredient list instead of the nutrition facts panel
• What chronic inflammation actually is, and why it's the root of most disease
• Three baby steps for anyone who feels too overwhelmed to change how they eat

Timestamps

• (00:02) Welcome and guest intro: meet nutrition coach Shelley Loving
• (01:16) Grace, patience, and unconditional love as the foundation of her teaching
• (02:00) Her husband's heart attack, and how cooking to heal him healed her too
• (04:20) The mountain-of-donuts moment: how emotional eating actually works
• (06:45) The 80-20 rule for indulging without guilt
• (07:48) Where food lands on your priority list (and why it should be higher)
• (10:20) The Sunday-outfit analogy for weekly meal planning
• (13:29) Anti-inflammatory eating and brain health
• (17:30) Baby step one: read the ingredient list, skip the nutrition facts
• (19:00) Chronic inflammation as the root of most disease
• (21:51) The mindset shift: is this food serving my taste buds or my body
• (22:53) Self-harm, self-sabotage, and healing your relationship with food
• (26:07) Where to find Shelley and her free event on chronic inflammation

About Shelley Loving

Shelley Loving is an Integrative Nutrition Health Coach, certified culinary nutrition expert, and certified professional cook. After her husband's heart attack in 2014, she trained at the Institute for Integrative Nutrition, the Academy for Culinary Nutrition (2019), and the Ruby Online Culinary School (2021), and now teaches people how to eat healthier without restriction, shame, or guilt.

Learn more at ShelleyCanHelp.com.

Favorite quotes "Our relationship with food is the longest relationship we will have with anything while we are on this earth. From birth to death, we have a relationship with food." —Shelley Loving "Our health starts in the kitchen. It doesn't start at the doctor's office." —Shelley Loving "Read your food label, know what's in your food, concentrate on what foods cause and reduce inflammation, and then show yourself grace when you mess up." —Shelley Loving Resources mentioned

• ShelleyCanHelp.com: Shelley's website, newsletter, and coaching programs
• Institute for Integrative Nutrition (where Shelley earned her Integrative Nutrition Health Coach certification)
• Academy for Culinary Nutrition (where Shelley became a certified culinary nutrition expert in 2019)
• Ruby Online Culinary School (where Shelley became a certified professional cook in 2021)

Related episodes

• Journey In My Body: Interview with Rachel Lavin, author of "The Doughnut Diaries": another honest conversation about food, body image, and healing a strained relationship with eating.
• Transforming Body, Mind, and Spirit: Interview with Jennifer Pilates: more on treating your body as a whole system instead of a project to fix.

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

How does a fourteen-year-old get sent to detention and come out the other side an international yoga teacher? Simple: a teacher hands him a book on yoga as a joke (punishment, supposedly) and the kid keeps sneaking back to detention every lunchtime to read more. (For the record, I logged some detention hours myself. We're just being honest around here.)

Fast forward: Troy Hadeed, raised Catholic in Trinidad and a former hemp-store owner ("not a head shop," he'd like you to know), now teaches yoga around the world and holds a view of Christ that may stretch you, comfort you, or both. If you're carrying church hurt, wrestling with forgiveness, or quietly wondering why the Jesus you met in scripture doesn't always resemble the one at the pulpit, this conversation was recorded for you.

We dig into the difference between "I am God" and "God within me," why "born a sinner" can quietly become a hiding place from responsibility, and Troy's question that will reframe every relationship you have, including the hard ones. Don't ask if it's love. Ask what is being loved.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DKgtsFBSyw

In this episode

• How a "punishment" in detention accidentally set a fourteen-year-old on the path to becoming a yoga teacher
• Why Troy sees Jesus as one of the greatest practitioners who ever lived, and what that has to do with the word "namaste"
• The real difference between saying "I am God" and "God is within me"
• Why the idea that we're "born sinners" can quietly become an excuse to avoid taking responsibility
• How to spot when organized religion drifts from Christ's own teaching of unconditional, inclusive love
• Troy's reframe for every relationship in your life: instead of asking "is this love," ask "what is being loved?"

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome to Phoenix and Flame, and Troy's background growing up in Trinidad
• (01:33) The detention story: how a "punishment" led a fourteen-year-old to yoga
• (06:38) Why Troy calls Jesus one of the greatest practitioners to ever walk the planet
• (07:54) "I am God" vs. "God within me": is there a difference?
• (14:57) Rethinking original sin, responsibility, and the real message behind Christ's teachings
• (21:39) The Christ you don't always see represented in church
• (24:05) Troy calls out the exclusivity taught by a lot of organized religion
• (29:22) Building your own unique relationship with God
• (31:17) Why conditioning, not divinity, explains our differences
• (37:21) The question that changes everything: what is being loved?
• (39:52) Applying "what is being loved" to abuse and codependency
• (42:19) Troy's book, Popcorn in My Pocket
• (45:01) Where to find Troy online

About Troy Hadeed

Troy Hadeed is an international yoga teacher, public speaker, and author based in Trinidad. He discovered yoga at fourteen after a teacher handed him a book on yoga as a joke during detention; Troy kept coming back on his own to read more. He went on to run a hemp store and a waste-cooking-oil recycling business for years before selling them to dedicate his life to studying and teaching yoga full-time. He's the author of the book Popcorn in My Pocket and also works one-on-one with students on their own journeys. Learn more and sign up for his newsletter at troyhadeed.com, or find him on Instagram.

Quotes worth sitting with

"I am putting up with that—that is not loving them. That is me loving what they provide me." —Troy Hadeed

"I have this beautiful tattoo that says 'ignore the story, see the soul.'" —Troy Hadeed

Resources mentioned

• Troy Hadeed's website and newsletter: troyhadeed.com
• Troy's book, Popcorn in My Pocket
• Troy on Instagram

Enjoyed this episode?

If this conversation moved you, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube, and leave a review; it helps other listeners find these conversations. Know someone wrestling with church hurt or forgiveness who needs to hear this one? Copy the link and text it, email it, or share it on social media, and help us grow the Phoenix and Flame community.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

Steven was the second child born to a 15 yr-old mother who put her children on the side of the road and called the police to take them. Thus began a spiral of child abuse, drug abuse, drug trafficking, and decades in prison before Steven gave his life to Christ and turned everything around. This is part two of his amazing story!

JesusSpeaksLLC.com

Steven Snook was the second child born to a 15 yr-old mother who put her children on the side of the road and called the police. This started a spiral into child abuse, drug trafficking and spending decades in prison before Steven gave his life to Christ and put it all on the line. This episode is part one of two.

JesusSpeaksLLC.com

Listen as Melanie describes her journey from addiction and codependency to becoming a life coach and award-winning author!

https://happyjoyousandfree.org/

Martina was diagnosed at age 28 (3 decades ago) with HIV and told she had 5 years to live. This is her story of navigating the stigmata of HIV and the isolation of being a female with HIV. Her memoir, "An Unexpected Life" follows her journey of being marginalized, ignored, and then emotionally abused by a mentally ill husband while trying to foster a teenage daughter.

www.martina-clark.com