Phoenix and Flame Podcast

Every single one of us has, at some point, had sex or done the dishes while mentally drafting a grocery list. Stay with me, because that image is actually the hook for some genuinely fascinating research my guest shared today: when your mind wanders, you're less happy, and it doesn't matter what you're doing. That's not correlation, it's causation, straight out of a study published in the journal Science. My guest, Ann Swanson, has dealt with anxiety so extreme she would pass out, chronic pain since her teen years, and debilitating perfectionism. She says if she can meditate, anyone can meditate, and after years of studying the research, she's built a whole practice around proving it.

Ann's first book, Science of Yoga, has sold over half a million copies. Her newest, Meditation for the Real World, was written with Harvard researcher Dr. Sarah Lazar to show that meditation isn't "woo-woo," it's neuroscience: meditators in their fifties can have brain structures that look like non-meditators in their twenties, and the practice touches your cardiovascular health, your cellular function, and your relationships. We get into the myth that's keeping most people from ever starting (that meditation means stopping your thoughts), the "sigh, see, start"-style cycle your mind actually goes through, and one-minute meditations you can do standing in line, in the car, or mid-panic attack.

We also do a real loving-kindness meditation together, out loud, on the show. If you've ever thought meditation requires 20 minutes of sitting perfectly still, this conversation will change your mind.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GIBDlT5Sgo

In this episode

• Why a wandering mind isn't meditation failing, it's the second step in a normal cycle, and noticing it is the whole skill
• The neuroscience behind why meditators in their 50s can have brain structures similar to non-meditators in their 20s
• One-minute meditations you can do standing in line, in your car, or before a stressful moment, no cushion required
• Why present-moment attention, not the activity itself, is what research links to actual happiness
• A simple loving-kindness (metta) practice for perfectionists who find self-compassion the hardest part
• How to use road rage, of all things, as a loving-kindness practice

Timestamps

• (00:58) Welcome and guest intro: meet Ann Swanson, author of Science of Yoga and Meditation for the Real World
• (03:03) Why meditation research matters, and what it shows about the brain
• (08:09) One-minute meditations, and the woman on the book cover meditating in the subway
• (09:15) Anxiety so severe it caused Ann to pass out, and how she started with physical practices first
• (14:40) The biggest misconception about meditation: that your thoughts are supposed to go quiet
• (16:26) The research from the journal Science: mind-wandering and happiness are directly linked
• (19:05) Using your five senses to anchor into the present moment
• (21:41) The 3-2-1 grounding technique (a shorter version of 5-4-3-2-1)
• (24:41) Gratitude, "glimmers," and the three secrets to happiness
• (27:51) Loving-kindness (metta) meditation, and doing it live on the show
• (32:03) Using loving-kindness meditation for road rage

About Ann Swanson

Ann Swanson is the author of Science of Yoga, which has sold over half a million copies, and Meditation for the Real World, co-written with Harvard researcher Dr. Sarah Lazar. She has dealt with severe anxiety, chronic pain since her teen years, and debilitating perfectionism, and now teaches science-backed meditation practices for busy people with busy minds.

Learn more and get her free meditation challenge at MeditationForTheRealWorld.com, find her book here, or follow her on Instagram at Science.of.Yoga.

Favorite quotes "When you are present, you are happy. And when you're not present, you're not happy. Doesn't matter what you're doing." —Ann Swanson "If we could sit alone with our thoughts in a quiet room, then there would be world peace." —Ann Swanson "Rather than scrolling while we wait, why don't we meditate while we wait?" —Ann Swanson Resources mentioned

• MeditationForTheRealWorld.com: Ann's free meditation challenge, built around music and nature sounds engineered to optimize your brainwaves
• "Meditation for the Real World" by Ann Swanson: her book, co-written with Harvard researcher Dr. Sarah Lazar
• "Science of Yoga" by Ann Swanson, her first book, on the research behind yoga's physical poses, meditation, and breathing practices
• Greater Good Science Center: the research center Ann cites for its work on gratitude and happiness

Related episodes

For more on quieting an anxious, busy mind, try:

• "Sigh, See, Start": The ShouldStorm Antidote: Dr. Alison Escalante's quick-reset method that pairs naturally with Ann's one-minute meditations.
• Blair Abee: How Meditation Saved His Sanity: another guest's firsthand account of meditation pulling him back from the edge.

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

My guest today told me her podcast intro calls are basically vetting sessions, because she doesn't want boring people on her show. "Small talk is virtually non-existent," she said. "It's basically like, hi, how are you doing? And one of my best friends said this: I don't care about the weather, I want to know what your deepest trauma is." That's Nikki LaCroce, and once we got into her deepest trauma, I understood exactly why she vets her guests. In early 2021, Nikki experienced what she calls her personal Armageddon: leaving a decade-long relationship with a covert narcissist while simultaneously losing her mother in the middle of the pandemic.

Nikki is a podcaster (Can I Just Say?) and, like me, someone who believes the most important conversations aren't the polished ones, they're the real ones. We talk about the difference between overt and covert narcissism (her ex was covert, which she says made the gaslighting and love bombing almost impossible to name at the time), the "pain threshold" that finally pushes someone to leave, and why one of her best friends telling her "you're asking for the bare minimum and you're not even getting that" was the sentence that changed everything.

We also get honest about the guilt that lingers after you leave, especially when leaving means you also lose time you'll never get back with people you love, and the deal-breakers exercise Nikki did to rebuild her own sense of self from the ground up.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VPHk5B8Kvc

In this episode

• Why covert narcissism is so much harder to spot than the "textbook" version, and why gaslighting doesn't always look dramatic
• What the "pain threshold" is, and why it takes crossing it to finally leave an unhealthy relationship
• How gratitude helped Nikki hold onto her sense of self while she was still in the relationship, not just after
• Why regaining your sense of self, not the breakup itself, is the hardest part of leaving a narcissist
• The deal-breakers exercise Nikki used to rebuild her own standards for a relationship
• How to release the guilt and shame that linger after you leave, especially the guilt over time you can't get back

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet podcaster Nikki LaCroce
• (05:38) The 2017 move to Seattle, and the toxic job that came before it
• (11:52) Starting therapy, and the therapist who said "if you're going to do this, you commit to going weekly"
• (12:12) The "pain threshold": what it takes before we're willing to do the work of change
• (18:21) The intersection of gratitude, mental health, and connection
• (22:41) Covert vs. overt narcissism, and why Nikki didn't recognize love bombing and gaslighting as they were happening
• (28:21) You deserve to be freed from the abuse, and you deserve to heal from it
• (33:19) Releasing guilt and shame after leaving an abusive relationship
• (35:53) Why it takes an average of seven tries to leave an abusive relationship
• (38:07) The deal-breakers exercise: rebuilding your own standards from scratch

About Nikki LaCroce

Nikki LaCroce was raised in the suburbs of Philadelphia and moved to the West Coast in 2017. In early 2021 she left a decade-long abusive relationship while simultaneously facing the unexpected loss of her mother amid the pandemic. She hosts the podcast "Can I Just Say?"

Listen to her show wherever you get podcasts, visit canijustsaypodcast.com, or follow her on social media at Nikki LaCroce.

Favorite quotes "You're asking for the bare minimum and you're not even getting that." —a friend's words to Nikki LaCroce, the turning-point moment she describes "Gratitude and anxiety can exist at the same time." —Nikki LaCroce's therapist, as relayed by Nikki "The hardest part about leaving a narcissistic abusive relationship with somebody is regaining your sense of self." —Nikki LaCroce's therapist, as relayed by Nikki Resources mentioned

• "Can I Just Say?": Nikki's podcast, available wherever you listen to podcasts
• CanIJustSayPodcast.com: Nikki's website

Related episodes

For more on narcissistic abuse and rebuilding after it, try:

• Trauma Impact: From Codependency to Self-Mastery: Amanda Kate's parallel story of surviving chronic narcissistic abuse and reclaiming her sense of self.
• Surviving Gaslighters and Manipulators: more on the gaslighting patterns Nikki describes living through with a covert narcissist.

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

Remember "stop, drop, and roll," the thing they drilled into us in elementary school for if your clothes caught fire? My guest today has the equivalent for parenting anxiety, and honestly, we all need it, because if you're a parent right now you are being bombarded by shoulds. You should breastfeed at all costs. You should never breastfeed past a certain age. You should get your kid into the "right" preschool or you've ruined their life before they can talk. Dr. Alison Escalante calls this the ShouldStorm, and she should know: she was getting emails on her brand-new iPhone telling her that her newborn would have a lower IQ if she didn't breastfeed, "even though he had a severe medical condition that led him to have colitis and eight different protein allergies and bleeding." She kept trying anyway, until she started fainting.

Dr. Escalante is a pediatrician and the author of "Sigh, See, Start: How to Be the Parent Your Child Needs in a World That Won't Stop Pushing." She's also a TEDx speaker on a mission to ease the epidemic of anxiety that's convinced parents they're always failing. Her three-step method is built like stop, drop, and roll for your nervous system: sigh (a real, physiological reset for your fight-or-flight response), see (a few seconds of mindful noticing, not an hour of meditation you don't have time for), and start (running your own small experiment instead of waiting to get it perfect).

We get into how social media supercharges the ShouldStorm without creating it, why "sometimes you start nothing" is legitimate parenting advice, and why Dr. Escalante says the goal was never perfection, it's confidence in your own ability to figure it out.

In this episode

• What the ShouldStorm is, and why it starts as soon as you get pregnant and never really lets up
• Why sighing (the long, slow out-breath, not the deep inhale) is the fastest way to pull your brain out of fight-or-flight
• How a few seconds of mindful "seeing" can be as effective as an hour of meditation you don't have time for anyway
• Why "start with nothing" is sometimes the right call, and when it's not
• How Sigh, See, Start reframes mistakes as data instead of a crisis, for you and for your kids
• Why your kids learn resilience by watching you recover from a should, not by watching you get it right the first time

Timestamps

• (00:03) Welcome and guest intro: meet pediatrician and author Dr. Alison Escalante
• (03:37) Why Dr. Escalante created the Sigh, See, Start method in the exam room
• (05:55) The role social media plays in supercharging the ShouldStorm
• (07:06) The breastfeeding ShouldStorm: fainting from a restrictive diet to chase a debunked IQ claim
• (14:01) Sigh: the one out-breath that tells your nervous system you're safe
• (16:49) Why presence, not perfection, is what kids actually want from a parent
• (17:20) See: your micro-moment of mindfulness
• (21:09) The autonomic nervous system responses behind should-driven overwhelm
• (22:40) Using Sigh, See, Start as a planning tool, even hiding in a bathroom to do it
• (25:12) Start: running your own scientific experiment instead of waiting to get it perfect
• (29:45) Helicopter parenting, gentle parenting, and where Sigh, See, Start actually differs
• (31:11) Modeling mistakes for your kids: how the should storm gets passed down

About Dr. Alison Escalante

Dr. Alison Escalante is a pediatrician, TEDx speaker, and author of "Sigh, See, Start: How to Be the Parent Your Child Needs in a World That Won't Stop Pushing." She created the Sigh, See, Start method after years of watching parents in her practice buckle under contradictory, anxiety-driven parenting advice, what she calls the ShouldStorm.

Learn more at SighSeeStart.com, and find her book, "Sigh, See, Start," at this link.

Favorite quotes "What do you do if your emotions are on fire from the should storm? You sigh, see, and start." —Dr. Alison Escalante "Even a few seconds of mindfulness, so these micro moments of mindfulness, are incredibly powerful, and can be as effective as a full hour of meditating." —Dr. Alison Escalante "I think telling people to accept doesn't help. We need action steps that teach us how that works." —Dr. Alison Escalante Resources mentioned

• SighSeeStart.com: Dr. Escalante's website, home to the Sigh, See, Start method and additional resources for parents
• "Sigh, See, Start" by Dr. Alison Escalante: her book on the three-step method discussed throughout the episode

Related episodes

If this hit home, these episodes go well with it:

• Yoga and Science: Meditation In The Real World: Ann Swanson's take on quick, real-world mindfulness practices that echo Dr. Escalante's "see" step.
• My Anxiety Is Eating Me Alive!: more on the anxiety spiral the ShouldStorm feeds, and how to interrupt it.

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

"Good girls don't ask questions. Good girls don't get angry. Good girls don't speak up. Good girls don't shout." My guest today rattled off that list like she'd memorized it in the womb, because she basically had. On paper, Amanda Kate had checked every box: good grades, the right marriage, two kids, a nice house. Behind closed doors, she says, "I was sick, I was depressed, I was scared, I was utterly unfulfilled." That gap, the balance sheet that looked perfect and the reality that didn't, is where codependency and the fawn trauma response come from, and it's exactly what we dig into today.

Amanda Kate is a self-mastery facilitator who survived chronic narcissistic abuse and the chronic fatigue that came from years of unrelenting emotional, mental, and psychological abuse. She walked the path of depression to the point of being on her floor screaming for God to take her home. Now she flips the current paradigm of what it truly means to master yourself, and she's got the receipts: kinesiology's five F's (fight, flight, freeze, fawn, and fragmentation), why "being an empath" is often a trauma response in disguise, and why we blame people for their reaction to abuse instead of the abuse itself.

We also get into the heroine's journey, why perfectionism and people-pleasing are really the same coin, and how to hold two things as true at once: that your parents loved you and that they also terrified you. If any of that sounds familiar, this conversation is for you.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgCtxxBkpzg

In this episode

• Why "good girl" conditioning teaches us to blame our reaction instead of the action that caused it
• The real difference between fight, flight, freeze, fawn, and fragmentation, and why most empaths are actually running a trauma response
• Why perfectionism and people-pleasing are two roads to the same destination: keeping everyone else happy so you feel safe
• How to hold two true things at once: your parents loved you, and they also scared you
• What the heroine's journey is, how it differs from the hero's journey, and why midlife tends to trigger it
• Why "reverse engineering" overwhelm and burnout back to their root belief stops the cycle before it starts

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet self-mastery facilitator Amanda Kate
• (01:46) The "perfect life on paper" that was falling apart behind closed doors
• (03:31) "Good girls don't": the childhood conditioning that sets up a lifetime of fawning
• (04:05) Blaming the reaction instead of the action that caused it
• (08:41) The four F's, and the fourth one nobody talks about: fawn
• (09:35) Why being an empath is often a trauma response, not a superpower, until you heal it
• (13:02) Kinesiology's five F's: fight, flight, freeze, fawn, and fragmentation
• (16:45) The abuse "rubber band": why we run back to the person who scares us
• (17:59) Living with a "full-blown narcissist," and the unpredictability that keeps you hooked
• (20:59) Perfectionism as an unobtainable, exhausting bargain with abuse
• (21:36) Flipping the paradigm: why we're taught to police the reaction, not the action
• (31:29) The heroine's journey versus the hero's journey

About Amanda Kate

Amanda Kate is a self-mastery facilitator who survived chronic narcissistic abuse and the chronic fatigue that followed years of emotional, mental, and psychological abuse and toxic relationship cycles. She describes herself as a recovering people pleaser and self-flagellator, walking a path that straddles the divine and messy.

Learn more at AmandaKate.com.au.

Favorite quotes "When somebody does an action and you have a reaction to said action, that's actually normal human behavior. We are wired to have reactions." —Amanda Kate "Perfectionism is unobtainable. It is impossible. There's not many things in this world that are impossible, but perfectionism is." —Amanda Kate "My parents deeply loved me and they deeply put the fear of God in me." —Amanda Kate Resources mentioned

• Kinesiology's five F's: fight, flight, freeze, fawn, and fragmentation, the framework Amanda uses to describe trauma responses
• The heroine's journey (as distinct from the hero's journey), including the myth of the goddess Inanna's descent to the underworld
• Brené Brown's "please, perform, and perfect" framing, referenced by Dana during the conversation

Related episodes

Pair this one with:

• Healing From Narcissistic Abuse: Nikki LaCroce's account of leaving a decade-long relationship with a covert narcissist, a natural next listen after Amanda's episode.
• The Hidden Tactics Narcissists Use to Control You: more on the manipulation patterns Amanda describes living through.

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

There's a corner of my unfinished basement with cinder block walls that has heard some things. Years ago you'd have found me down there hurling pieces of hardwood at them, hollering, because I was so angry and so scared I wanted to bolt on the whole thing. My husband and son stayed upstairs, eyes the size of sausages, whisper-agreeing not to come check on me. Dramatic? Extremely. But I'd made myself one promise through all of it: I wouldn't quit.

That's the kind of entrepreneur boundaries conversation I don't usually get to have on Phoenix in Flame, which is exactly why I wanted Eric McHugh on the show. Eric is a 30-year-old Web3 entrepreneur, president of ShopX, an ecommerce platform that helps Web2 brands move into Web3, and runs Dataing, an AI-powered matchmaking company. He told me flat out: "I've always been good at saying no." No riot, no confrontation, just a clear boundary and a "no, thank you." We get into how he built that muscle, what a decade of failed startup ideas taught him about resilience, and why he thinks "only you know what's best for you."

We also go somewhere I never expected: Eric's 10 days of total silence on a Vipassana meditation retreat, no phone, no talking, no writing, just scanning his own body for stored trauma from the time he was four or five years old. He walks through what that actually does to a person, plus his simple daily practice (a "thought diet," a gratitude journal) for staying grounded while you're failing your way toward whatever works.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_njI50gvQM

In this episode

• Why "no, thank you" is a complete sentence: how Eric sets boundaries with clients and dates without ever getting confrontational
• How to reframe failure in a startup: "nine things that don't work" gets you closer to the one thing that does
• Why boundaries function as a self-filtration system for who stays in your life and who doesn't
• What 10 days of total silence on a Vipassana meditation retreat actually does to your nervous system and your stored trauma
• The "thought diet": treating what you consume on social media with the same scrutiny you'd give your actual diet
• A simple gratitude-journal habit for staying grounded while you fail your way toward what works

Timestamps

• (01:09) Welcome and guest intro: meet Eric McHugh, 30-year-old Web3 entrepreneur
• (02:45) Web1 vs. Web2 vs. Web3, and what owning an NFT actually means
• (05:33) Failing constantly in the startup world, and why every failure gets you closer to what works
• (09:40) Dana's basement story: throwing wood at a cinder block wall while keeping her promise not to quit
• (11:14) Turning anger into training instead of throwing things
• (14:28) "Only you know what's best for you": standing firm on your own boundaries
• (16:56) What Eric does when someone disrespects a boundary he's set
• (19:06) Why setting a boundary rarely has to be confrontational
• (20:42) Setting a hard no with corporate clients as a bankruptcy consultant
• (22:14) The 10-day silent Vipassana meditation retreat, and what "extracting stored trauma" really means
• (28:08) The "thought diet": curating what you let into your mind
• (30:01) Gratitude journaling and Eric's take on frequency and energy

About Eric McHugh

Eric McHugh is a 30-year-old Web3 entrepreneur and president of ShopX, a platform that helps Web2 brands enter the Web3 space. His other company is Dataing, which he describes as "the first ever AI-powered matchmaker." Before entrepreneurship, he worked as a consultant for companies undergoing bankruptcy.

Find him at ShopX or Dataing, and connect with him on Instagram, LinkedIn, or Twitter/X.

Favorite quotes "Only you know what's best for you." —Eric McHugh "You try a bunch of things, they fail, but that'll eventually lead to the right thing that you wouldn't find if you didn't fail so much." —Eric McHugh "It's really just about keep going." —Eric McHugh Resources mentioned

• ShopX.co: Eric's Web3 ecommerce platform
• Dataing.io: Eric's AI-powered matchmaking company
• The 10-day Vipassana meditation retreat Eric describes: the silent meditation method he says traces back to the Buddha
• Eric McHugh on Instagram
• Eric McHugh on LinkedIn

Related episodes

If boundaries-in-business is your thing, keep going with these:

• Why Successful Entrepreneurs Set Boundaries: a whole episode built around the exact theme Eric lives out here, why the entrepreneurs who last are the ones who protect their time.
• Mindset and Success: an Interview with Kyle Gillette: another founder's take on the inner work behind outer success, a good pairing with Eric's thought-diet philosophy.

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

50-hour work weeks, saying yes to every extra project, and a constant fear of being fired: that's what burnout looked like for Lolita Guarin, right up until the day the stress finally won and she collapsed on her own kitchen floor. She'd moved to the US from Lithuania to chase her American dream, and she did all the things you're supposed to do: journaling, meditation, yoga, better time management. Her health improved. But something still felt unfinished, and she didn't find out what until she read a book about adult children of alcoholics and thought, wait, that's me.

Lolita is a stress management coach, and in this conversation she explains what "adult child of an alcoholic" (ACOA) really means, and why you don't need a parent who drinks to grow up in a dysfunctional home; any environment where your emotional needs went unmet can leave the same imprint. We talk about self-abandonment (what it actually looks like when you skip the gym because a guru told you to "push through," or when you're still calling your mom for approval in your thirties), and why Lolita insists boundaries with yourself have to come before boundaries with anyone else.

If burnout has ever left you wondering why doing "all the right things" still wasn't enough, this one's for you.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EEucQizP60

In this episode

• Why yoga, meditation, and time management, Lolita's "leisure things," didn't fix what was actually wrong
• What "adult child of an alcoholic" (ACOA) really means, and why you don't need an alcoholic parent to have grown up in a dysfunctional home
• The difference between abandoning other people and abandoning yourself, and how people-pleasing is a form of self-abandonment
• Why boundaries with yourself have to come before boundaries with anyone else
• How to forgive a parent who's still behaving badly, without letting them back into your life unconditionally
• The "write down your achievements" exercise Lolita uses with clients who don't feel like they're enough

Timestamps

• (00:04) Welcome and guest intro: meet Lolita Guarin, stress management coach
• (01:58) Chasing the American dream, and burnout that ended in collapsing on her kitchen floor
• (01:58) Why "leisure things" like yoga and journaling didn't fix what was actually wrong
• (06:19) Discovering she grew up an adult child of an alcoholic (ACOA), and what that term actually means
• (09:32) "Stop abandoning yourself": what self-abandonment looks like day to day
• (17:37) Growing up with a narcissistic parent, and calling her mom for approval well into her 30s
• (20:06) The achievements-list exercise Lolita uses with clients who don't feel "enough"
• (23:31) How forgiving her parents, without excusing them, changed her relationship with them
• (25:50) What to do when a parent's dysfunction never stopped, even into your adult years
• (34:26) Where to find Lolita Guarin, her website, and her books on stress management

About Lolita Guarin

Lolita Guarin is a stress management coach who moved to the US from Lithuania about two decades ago. She's the author of books on stress management, including one for adult children of alcoholics and one focused specifically on workplace stress, "Crush Stress While You Work."

Learn more at BeAmazingYou.com, or find her books: Stress Management for ACOA and Crush Stress While You Work.

Favorite quotes "Stop abandoning yourself." —Lolita Guarin "Setting boundaries with yourself is knowing who you truly are. And then you can set boundaries with other people." —Lolita Guarin "You can take the horse to the river, but you cannot make them drink it." —Lolita Guarin Resources mentioned

• BeAmazingYou.com: Lolita's website, with free worksheets
• Lolita's book on stress management for ACOA
• Lolita's book on workplace stress, "Crush Stress While You Work"
• The achievements-list exercise, adapted from a Jack Canfield book, that Lolita uses with clients

Related episodes

• How to Spot Burnout Before It's Too Late: more on catching burnout before it becomes a kitchen-floor moment
• How Your Survival Brain is Sabotaging Your Happiness: the survival-brain wiring behind the people-pleasing Lolita describes
• People-Pleasing and the Sticky Rope: a deeper look at the self-abandonment habit at the center of this episode

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

Deanna Moffitt's father tucks her arm through his and asks, "You ready for this?" and she says yes out loud, though she's already living the kind of story she'd spend the next decade learning to rewrite. In her head, she's thinking something else entirely: "Divorce won't be that hard to get." That's Deanna, five years before she'd actually get that divorce, and it's exactly the kind of story she now helps other people rewrite for a living. As an adoptee raised in a chaotic home with an abusive sibling, Deanna grew up with two core stories running the show: "I am alone" and "I am a burden." Those stories made her fiercely self-sufficient, landed her in leadership roles she used as a shield, and, at 36, sent her out of a senior project manager job and into 11 years of improv comedy in Chicago.

Deanna is a coach, speaker, and author of "The Rewrite: Change Your Life One Story at a Time," and in this conversation she walks me through how the stories we tell about ourselves get written in childhood, whether or not there's a dramatic trauma behind them, and why we keep acting them out long after we've rationally outgrown them. We talk about setting boundaries with yourself before you can ever set them with anyone else, and why she says real change moves more like a loaded 787 Dreamliner than a helicopter: it takes runway.

If you've ever caught yourself repeating a pattern you swore you'd broken, or wondered why knowing better hasn't changed your behavior, this episode is for you.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVLpDJrlzFA

In this episode

• What a "core wound story" is (like "I am alone" or "I am a burden") and how it forms in childhood, with or without a single dramatic event behind it
• Why setting boundaries with yourself has to come before you can set them with anyone else
• The 787 Dreamliner analogy for why real change takes longer than a helicopter takeoff
• How 11 years of improv comedy taught Deanna that all of us are already improvising, all the time
• Why she stayed in a relationship for 14 years without getting married, and what finally changed
• How to tell the difference between one person's story about you and the truth

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet Deanna Moffitt, author of "The Rewrite"
• (02:40) The two core wound stories Deanna grew up with: "I am alone" and "I am a burden"
• (04:07) How Deanna's first weeks as an adopted infant shaped a story she didn't know she was carrying
• (08:34) Why leadership can be a way of staying detached, and how to "collect new data" to prove a new story
• (12:22) Discovering "The Power of Positive Thinking" at 12, and surviving abuse from her brother
• (17:34) The wedding day: saying "yes" out loud, and "divorce won't be that hard" in her head
• (19:51) Fourteen years in a relationship without getting married, and what finally changed
• (22:55) Finding improv comedy in her 30s, and why every conversation you have is already improvised
• (28:42) The 787 Dreamliner analogy: why rewriting your story takes longer than flipping a switch
• (36:24) Where to find Deanna Moffitt and book a free coaching call

About Deanna Moffitt

Deanna Moffitt is a coach, speaker, and author of "The Rewrite: Change Your Life One Story at a Time." She left a senior project manager role in corporate America at age 36 to perform improv comedy in Chicago for 11 years, then moved to Los Angeles to dive into coaching and leadership development.

Learn more, read her book, or book a free 30-minute conversation at DeannaMoffitt.com.

Favorite quotes "We are 787 Dreamliners with a full belly of luggage and a full passenger list. We're gonna take three miles to get off the ground." —Deanna Moffitt "None of us have scripts in this life." —Deanna Moffitt "The first time we practice it is like, oh my God, are you still gonna like me?" —Deanna Moffitt, on speaking your truth for the first time Resources mentioned

• "The Rewrite: Change Your Life One Story at a Time": Deanna's book on identifying and rewriting your core wound stories
• "The Power of Positive Thinking": the book a 12-year-old Deanna read that first showed her she could be aware of her own thoughts
• DeannaMoffitt.com: Deanna's website, with a free 30-minute coaching call

Related episodes

• Journey from Trauma to Value: Interview with Danielle Bernock: another guest on rewriting the narrative trauma leaves behind
• "Sigh, See, Start": The ShouldStorm Antidote: more tools for catching and rewriting the negative stories running in your head
• Getting Pulled Into the Past: Our Shame Response and the Impact of Unprocessed Trauma: the deeper mechanics of how childhood stories keep running the show

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

"Different is not a deficit": that's Katherine McCord's blunt answer to anyone who thinks neurodiversity means something's broken. Katherine has six invisible disabilities, including bipolar disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder, and misophonia, plus multiple physical diagnoses including a seizure disorder, and she calls neurodiversity her superpower, not in spite of any of it. She tells her own story with zero shame and a whole lot of humor, like the time an insurance company called to apologize because they thought they'd gotten her age wrong. They hadn't: she was 26, but her file, full of diagnosis after diagnosis, read like she'd lived twice that long.

Katherine is the founder of Titan Management, a national people operations consulting firm she started in 2014, and in 2021 she designed the first fully accessible, anti-bias applicant tracking system plugin, one that hides the resume and shows company diversity instead. We talk about what it means when your parents "steer into" your differences instead of fighting them, how to tell the difference between someone who's just uninformed and someone who's being deliberately unkind, and the line between having a diagnosis and using it to manipulate the people around you.

Katherine also walks me through what misophonia actually feels like (spoiler: it's not just "not liking a sound"), and the workplace study that proves accommodating how people naturally work isn't just kind, it's good for the bottom line.

In this episode

• What neurodiversity actually means, and why Katherine calls her six invisible disabilities her superpower
• How to respond when someone doesn't accept your differences, and how to tell ignorance from malice
• The difference between having a diagnosis and using it to manipulate people, and how to set a boundary around either one
• What misophonia actually feels like, from the sound of kissing to a booth full of strangers at a restaurant
• Why the Hewlett-Packard study found that letting people work in ways natural to them increases productivity by over 30%
• How to tell someone they have ADHD for the first time as an adult, without making it sound like a diagnosis of doom

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet Katherine McCord, founder of Titan Management
• (02:18) Six invisible disabilities, and what "neurodiversity" actually means
• (03:58) The Aflac phone call: "Ms. McCord, we got your age wrong"
• (04:26) How Katherine's parents responded when she was diagnosed with OCD at three or four years old
• (06:41) Meeting "the jerk": Katherine's first encounters with people who weren't accepting
• (08:41) Choosing education over conflict, and the boundary of "not today"
• (12:28) The difference between having a diagnosis and using it to manipulate people
• (21:23) What misophonia actually feels like
• (29:09) Katherine's three missions: integrity, innovation, and inclusion
• (33:12) Where to find Katherine, and her new nonprofit, the Neuroverse

About Katherine McCord

Katherine McCord is the founder of Titan Management, a national people operations consulting firm founded in 2014, and in 2021 she designed the first fully accessible, anti-bias applicant tracking system plugin. She lives with six invisible disabilities, including bipolar disorder, OCD, and misophonia, plus multiple physical diagnoses including a seizure disorder, and recently founded the Neuroverse, a nonprofit focused on neurodiversity, which is hosting its first "Neuro Wonderland" event in New York next year.

Learn more at her speaker website, join the Neuroverse, or find her consulting firm at TitanManagementUSA.com.

Favorite quotes "Different is not a deficit." —Katherine McCord "You are not whatever this diagnosis is. This diagnosis is no different than a finger on your hand." —Katherine McCord "Inclusion is the ultimate expression of freedom." —Katherine McCord Resources mentioned

• KMcCordSpeaking.com: Katherine's speaker website and bio
• JoinTheNeuroverse.org: Katherine's nonprofit around neurodiversity, with free resources and upcoming events
• TitanManagementUSA.com: Katherine's people operations consulting firm
• Loop earbuds, the noise-filtering earbuds Katherine uses to manage misophonia
• The Hewlett-Packard workplace study Katherine cites on accommodating natural working styles

Related episodes

• Why Neurodiversity is Important in the Workplace: a deeper dive into the exact topic Katherine champions here
• Queer Rights, Mental Disability, and Suicidal Ideation: Zane Landin's Journey of Advocacy: another guest turning a disability experience into public advocacy
• Emotional Healing Laboratory: The Workplace: more on building workplaces that actually work for how people are wired

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

What does it actually take to become a "good man"? Nico Lagan didn't get there through comfort. He got there by hitting bottom. My guest today grew up without a present father figure, idolized the wrong men, and spent his late teens and early twenties as an addict and a drug dealer, sitting on his apartment floor mid-eviction when his mom called and asked him one question: "Are you happy?" That question is what turned his life around, and it's why he's now known as a men's coach who fearlessly champions what a good man looks like. Nico moved back into his mother's house that same day, into NA and AA meetings, and eventually into the career he has now.

Nico is an entrepreneur, author, and host of "The Nico Lagan Show," with more than 100,000 followers and 5 to 10 million monthly views across his content, plus over 300 appearances as a guest and host, including Sean Kelly's Digital Hour. We talk about what actually changes a person's life (his answer: pain, not comfort), why he cut ties with nearly everyone around him to get sober, and the five virtues he now teaches men: courage, being a protector, being a provider, temperance, and faith.

Nico's content gets called controversial, and in this conversation he explains why he doesn't see it that way, and makes his case for the differences he believes men and women bring to a relationship. Whether or not you agree with everything he says, his own story, from an eviction notice to accountability, is worth hearing.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDvmuipMDa4

In this episode

• How growing up without a present father led Nico to idolize the wrong men, and how that fueled six or seven years of addiction and dealing drugs
• The one question from his mom, "are you happy?", that started a complete 180-degree life change
• Why Nico says "pain and suffering are the best of teachers," and why comfort can be the most dangerous trap of all
• Nico's five virtues of a good man: courage, protector, provider, temperance, and faith, and why he says courage comes first
• Why he cut ties with nearly everyone in his life to get sober, including people close to him, and how he decides who stays now
• His take on free speech, controversy, and why he'd rather know what people actually think

Timestamps

• (00:05) Welcome and guest intro: meet Nico Lagan, men's coach and host of "The Nico Lagan Show"
• (02:45) Growing up without his father, and idolizing "the wrong men"
• (09:55) Getting evicted while still an addict and a drug dealer in his early 20s
• (10:29) The phone call from his mom: "Are you happy?"
• (12:33) The deathbed-regret study, and why pain is the best teacher
• (16:52) Why Nico says his content isn't controversial, common sense is just rare
• (20:48) Cutting ties with the people bringing him down, including family
• (28:13) Nico's five virtues of a good man: courage, protector, provider, temperance, faith
• (31:37) Nico's case for the differences he sees between men and women
• (38:45) Where to find Nico Lagan and his books

About Nico Lagan

Nico Lagan is an entrepreneur, author, men's coach, and host of "The Nico Lagan Show," featured in Times Square, with more than 100,000 followers and content drawing 5 to 10 million monthly views. He's appeared on TV, radio, and podcasts, including Sean Kelly's Digital Hour, with over 300 total appearances as a guest and host.

Learn more, find his books, and follow him on social media at nicolagan.com.

Favorite quotes "Men are not born, they're made through trials and tribulations, through having to go through tough things in order to forge character." —Nico Lagan "Pain and suffering are the best of teachers." —Nico Lagan "I refuse categorically to live a life that others want me to live." —Nico Lagan Resources mentioned

• NicoLagan.com: Nico's website, with his books and all his social media
• "The Nico Lagan Show": Nico's podcast, on all major platforms

Related episodes

• From Child Abuse, Drug Trafficking, and Decades in Prison to Being On Fire For Christ: Interview with Steven Snook (Part One): another guest's road from addiction and dealing to a completely rebuilt life
• Why Traditional Masculinity Is Failing Modern Relationships: a different take on the masculinity conversation Nico raises here
• From Suicide Plans to 20 Years as Tony Robbins' Firewalk Captain: Dave Albin's Amazing Journey: more on the accountability and mentorship that pulls someone out of crisis

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

A gentle note before you dive in: this conversation touches on suicide crisis and grief. It's okay to pause, skip ahead, or come back to this one another time.

Portia Booker survived a suicidal crisis in her twenties, then two years later survived a grief she had no framework for when her mother died of lung cancer. Both of them cracked her wide open, and both of them are why she now talks about grief for a living. My guest today, known to her audience as Portia the Producer, credits an old college professor's out-of-the-blue phone call with saving her life: "Portia, you are not well," the professor said. "You need to get yourself to the hospital right now." That call is the reason she's here now to tell her story.

Portia landed her dream TV producer job two weeks after college graduation, a thousand miles from home, and within a month was diagnosed with bipolar disorder in a newsroom culture that had no room for it. She talks with me about the public humiliation that pushed her to the edge, what she calls "bystander syndrome" (the coworkers who stood there and said nothing), and what it was like being one of the only Black producers in that newsroom. Then, two years after she rebuilt her life, her mother's death sent her into a grief she had no framework for, until she picked up her mom's ashes from the funeral home and an unexpected thought changed everything: what if her mom's transition was actually for her transformation?

We talk about learned helplessness, the courage it takes to actually stop and help a stranger in crisis instead of just driving past, and why Portia insists grief is not linear; that comparing your pain to someone else's only makes it worse. If you or someone you love is walking through a crisis or a loss right now, this conversation is for you.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcTBkf0ODbM

In this episode

• Why the newsroom "pile of ash" moment mattered more than any one bad day, and what finally made Portia walk away from her dream job
• The phone call from a college professor that reached Portia in her most dangerous moment and got her to the hospital
• What "bystander syndrome" feels like from the inside, and why Portia now stops for strangers in crisis instead of driving past
• Being one of the only Black producers in her newsroom, and what she wishes people from other backgrounds understood
• Why "grief is not linear," and how comparing your pain to someone else's only makes it worse
• How picking up her mother's ashes led to the audiobook that became her second act, "Finding Grace Within Grief"

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet Portia Booker, "Portia the Producer"
• (02:02) Landing her dream TV producer job two weeks after graduation, and the bipolar disorder diagnosis that followed
• (07:25) The newsroom incident that became her "pile of ash" moment
• (08:23) The phone call from her college professor that got her to the hospital
• (10:38) The bird-in-a-cage story, and the psychology of learned helplessness
• (13:18) Being one of the only Black producers in the newsroom, and the cost of bystander syndrome
• (23:03) Why Portia now stops to help strangers in crisis, from a man breaking down in the street to a young woman asking for help at a gas station
• (24:42) Losing her great-grandmother, then her mother's lung cancer diagnosis
• (26:43) How "Groove with Portia" started as a cover story for her own mental health journey
• (29:43) Picking up her mother's ashes, and the epiphany that became her audiobook
• (34:36) Portia's parting words: grief is not linear

About Portia Booker

Portia Booker, known as Portia the Producer, is a TV-producer-turned-podcast-host and the author of the audiobook "Finding Grace Within Grief: Her Transition, My Transformation." She currently produces 12 different shows, including her own, "Groove with Portia," and is training to become a death doula.

Listen to her show, Groove with Portia, or find her on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn.

Favorite quotes "There's more to Portia's life than this." —Portia Booker "Don't compare your grief pain to anybody else... you gotta feel it, and just learn to embrace your grief instead of evade it." —Portia Booker "What if your mom's transition is for your transformation?" —Portia Booker Resources mentioned

• "Finding Grace Within Grief: Her Transition, My Transformation": Portia's debut audiobook, written from letters she wrote to God after her mother's death
• Groove with Portia: Portia's podcast, also on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, and Google
• Portia on Instagram
• Portia on LinkedIn

Related episodes

• "You're Not Alone" Interview Series: When a Loved One Commits Suicide: for anyone sitting with the same crisis Portia describes, from the other side of loss
• From Suicide Plans to 20 Years as Tony Robbins' Firewalk Captain: Dave Albin's Amazing Journey: another guest's crisis moment and the decades of transformation that followed
• Thriving After Loss: Kim Sorrelle's Story of the Transformational Power of Love: more on finding your footing after losing someone you love

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz