Phoenix and Flame Podcast

A gentle note before you dive in: this conversation touches on child sexual abuse. It's okay to pause, skip ahead, or come back to this one another time.

My guest today kept his story secret for thirteen years. Seth Gehle grew up with a mother who became addicted to crack and cocaine and physically abusive, in a house so falling-apart that rain came through a hole in his bedroom ceiling. At ten years old, an adult man began grooming him through an older friend, and over the next five and a half years molested and eventually raped him. At fifteen, Seth reported him, kept his own clothes unwashed for a day so the hospital could collect evidence, and watched his abuser get convicted on 11 counts. He never told his story publicly again until three months before he sat down with me.

Seth is a combat veteran (82nd Airborne Division, one tour in 2019) who went on to become the top construction manager at a major home-building company and is now writing a memoir, "Strength Beyond the Shadows." We talk about what it took to report his abuser as a teenager not knowing if the story would ever go public, why every survivor's story matters no matter who else supposedly has it worse, and the message he's building his life's second act around: heal first, before you seek justice, or the justice won't matter.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtgdPzudwCQ

In this episode

• How years of instability, addiction, and abuse at home left Seth vulnerable to a predator who spent months grooming him before the abuse began
• Why Seth stayed silent about the abuse for years, and what finally made him report it at 15: watching the same grooming pattern start on a younger friend
• What actually happens when you report abuse: the hospital, the evidence, the interrogation, and the conviction that still kept his story out of the news entirely
• Why Seth says pursuing justice without doing the healing work "does it for nothing," and how he thinks about the men-are-bad-men narrative without excusing what happened to him
• How Seth went from combat veteran to award-winning construction manager to author, and why he talks about his successes alongside his trauma
• Why everyone's story matters regardless of what anyone else has "had it worse," and how sharing his own is helping other survivors come forward

Timestamps

• (00:02) Welcome and guest intro: meet combat veteran and abuse survivor Seth Gehle
• (02:49) Childhood instability: his father's imprisonment, his mother's addiction and abuse
• (07:36) Meeting the man who would groom and abuse him for over five years
• (10:26) The abuse begins, and how it escalated to rape around age 13
• (14:52) The aftermath of the assault, and the shame and fear of being disbelieved
• (15:52) Watching a younger friend get groomed, and the decision to finally report
• (19:07) The hospital, the evidence, and what happened after Seth reported his abuser
• (25:32) Why Seth started speaking publicly about his abuse only three months before this recording
• (28:09) On justice, healing, and why he refuses to let his message become anti-men
• (29:04) From the Army's 82nd Airborne to a national award as a construction manager
• (31:26) Writing his memoir, "Strength Beyond the Shadows," and founding the Impact Project
• (37:19) Where to find Seth and follow his story

About Seth Gehle

Seth Gehle is a combat veteran who served eight years in the Army's 82nd Airborne Division, including a combat tour in 2019. After leaving the military, he became a project manager in construction and was recognized as the top construction manager for 18 months running at a major national home-building company, honored at the International Builder's Show. He is writing a memoir, "Strength Beyond the Shadows," and recently founded the Impact Project, and now speaks publicly about surviving childhood sexual abuse to help other survivors heal.

Follow Seth at his website, SethGehle.com, or on Instagram and YouTube under Seth Gehle or "Go Beyond the Shadows."

Favorite quotes "If you don't heal, if you put the [abusive] person away for the rest of their life, but you don't heal and you don't do better than you've done, it for nothing." —Seth Gehle "We all start on the same road as these innocent little babies. Some bad things happen. We take our detours, and you can either park your car in that bad neighborhood or you can keep driving and find your way out." —Seth Gehle "Everyone, we all have a right to our own story... and we have that responsibility and that right to step into that space." —Dana Skaggs Resources mentioned

• SethGehle.com: Seth's website
• "Strength Beyond the Shadows," Seth's memoir, tentatively expected by the end of 2024
• The Impact Project, Seth's newly founded initiative built around the six principles he lives by

Related episodes

• From Victim to Victor: Healing From Abuse: another survivor's story of healing after abuse, a natural companion to Seth's own journey.
• From Child Abuse, Drug Trafficking, and Decades in Prison to Being On Fire For Christ (Part One): another guest's story of surviving childhood abuse and finding a new purpose on the other side of it.
• Healing from Trauma and Addiction: Dr. Stephan Neff's Journey: more on the link between childhood trauma and the healing work that has to happen afterward.

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

Jill Sitnick, an award-winning strategic thinker and educator, shares her journey of healing childhood trauma-induced PTSD with psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy. She discusses her experiences growing up in an abusive and unstable environment, the isolation and impending doom she felt as a result of her trauma, and the physical manifestations of trauma in the body.

https://thejourneysage.com

A note before you listen: this episode includes a guest's personal opinions and experiences with an alternative wellness product, including specific claims about disease and health conditions. These are the guest's own statements. They have not been evaluated or verified by Dana Skaggs, Phoenix and Flame, or any medical or regulatory authority, and they are not medical advice. If you or someone you love is managing a serious health condition, please talk to a licensed physician before changing any treatment, and don't delay or avoid conventional medical care based on anything said in this episode.

My guest today told me she goes to check on her sleeping husband to make sure he's still breathing. That's what early-onset Alzheimer's caregiving looks like at its rawest. Darlene Greene's husband Jim was diagnosed with early Alzheimer's three years ago, around age 67, and declined in two years what would normally be a thirteen-year progression. The chief of neurology at Barrow's Neurological Center told her flatly: this is fast. Darlene walked away from two earlier marriages to men she describes as narcissists before Jim, "the best marriage of anyone I have ever known," and now her role has "completely transitioned to being mom" to the man she married.

Darlene and I talk about what it actually costs a caregiver: four autoimmune disorders from years of chronic stress, a broken foot she couldn't properly rest because Jim needed her, and a therapist gently asking her to consider her own health and timeline, not just his. We also get into the alternative treatments she tried along the way, from IV stem cells in Mexico to a hyperbaric chamber to a wellness patch technology she now sells, and I push back where I think a listener should, because I never want this podcast to sound like a commercial.

If you're the one holding a family together through a loved one's decline, or setting a boundary that other people don't understand, this conversation is for you.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1RYrFCKK18

In this episode

• What early-onset Alzheimer's caregiving looks like day to day, from re-teaching a spouse how to hold a toothpaste tube to becoming "mom" to the man you married
• Why Darlene initially refused to believe the diagnosis, and the alternative treatments (mold remediation, the Bredesen protocol, IV stem cells, a hyperbaric chamber) she tried before landing on the wellness patches she now uses and sells
• The toll caregiving took on Darlene's own body: four autoimmune disorders, and how the book "Molecules of Emotion" helped her understand the chronic-stress connection
• Why her therapist told her to think about her own health and timeline, not just her husband's, when it comes to placement decisions, and how hard that was to hear
• How Darlene sets boundaries with people who criticize choices they don't have the full story on
• Why Darlene calls herself "in the middle of the ashes" rather than the Phoenix, and what she's learned about giving herself space to grieve a spouse who's still standing in front of her

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet caregiver Darlene Greene
• (03:38) Two marriages to narcissists, and the health toll of years of trauma and court battles
• (05:19) The book "Molecules of Emotion" by Candace Pert, and understanding chronic stress
• (07:14) Jim's early Alzheimer's diagnosis, and the "I don't believe you" phase
• (08:07) Alternative treatments tried first: mold remediation, the Bredesen protocol, IV stem cells in Mexico, a hyperbaric chamber
• (08:34) A two-year decline that would normally take thirteen years, and Jim's APOE4/4 genotype
• (09:59) Becoming "mom" to the man she married
• (12:22) Darlene's own broken foot and depression, on top of caregiving
• (13:21) The wellness patch technology Darlene started using, and what she and Jim each noticed in the first weeks
• (20:51) Dana pauses the conversation: "I don't want my podcast to sound like a commercial"
• (31:59) The therapist conversation about placement, and Darlene's guilt around it
• (35:12) Learning to give herself space to grieve a spouse who is still physically present
• (39:43) Where to find Darlene and get a free consultation

About Darlene Greene

Darlene Greene is a caregiver for her husband Jim, who was diagnosed with early-onset Alzheimer's disease three years ago. She describes herself as a hobbyist in alternative and holistic health, and now also works with a wellness patch technology, offering free consultations to listeners.

Learn more at Darlene's website.

Favorite quotes "I have left no stone unturned and I have tried as hard as a person can try." —Darlene Greene "I am not the Phoenix yet, right? I'm in the middle of the ashes." —Darlene Greene "I have lost my husband, right? He's not who he was before, but he's still standing in front of me as a different person." —Darlene Greene Resources mentioned

• "Molecules of Emotion" by Candace Pert: the book Darlene says reframed how she understood the physical toll of chronic stress on her body
• IAmReverseAging.com: Darlene's website, where she offers a free consultation about the wellness patch technology discussed on the show

Related episodes

• Healing From Narcissistic Abuse: more on recognizing and recovering from a narcissistic relationship, which Darlene says she survived twice before meeting her husband Jim.
• Surviving Gaslighters and Manipulators: pairs with Darlene's story of the "sneaky and covert" narcissists she describes from her past relationships.
• How Unresolved Trauma Is Ruling Your Life: digs deeper into the mind-body connection Darlene points to with her own autoimmune disorders and chronic stress.

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

My guest calls herself "terminally curious," and by the time you hear her story you'll understand why intentional optimism had to become her life's work. Andrea Johnson survived a 12-week inpatient program for bulimia and depression at 20, gastric bypass surgery not once but twice in three weeks (she snuck a shrimp when she wasn't supposed to), seventeen moves before she turned 21, and the loss of her mother to breast cancer. Her answer to all of it isn't sunny, toxic positivity. It's a taproot.

Andrea grew up on a mission compound in Seoul, South Korea, a third culture kid at an international school with 65 nationalities walking the same halls, which is where she learned a rule she still teaches executives today: the onus of communicating your message is on the communicator, not the listener. Now an executive and founder empowerment coach and a certified DISC consultant, she talks with me about the "taproot" she coaches clients to grow, meaning a rooted enough sense of who you are that criticism can't uproot you, and about the six tenets of intentional optimism she built out of watching her mother die well.

We also get into the question I couldn't NOT ask her: what do you do with a relationship to someone who's consistently dysfunctional and shows no sign of changing? Andrea's answer starts with knowing who you are before you ever decide whether to stay.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gyVg1pbdu4

In this episode

• How growing up a third culture kid on a mission compound in Seoul taught Andrea a communication rule she still teaches: it's on you to make yourself understood, not on the other person to work harder at listening
• Why gastric bypass surgery became the physical tool she needed after seven years of therapy couldn't get her weight off alone, and the shrimp mistake that landed her back in surgery three weeks later
• The "taproot" analogy for building a sense of self deep enough that other people's opinions can't blow you over
• What intentional optimism actually means, and why it's not the same thing as toxic positivity
• How watching her mother die with grace at 50 pushed Andrea to stop being unfulfilled and build a business around her own values
• Her advice for staying grounded in a relationship with someone who is consistently dysfunctional and isn't going anywhere

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet executive and founder coach Andrea Johnson
• (01:20) "Here I stand": Andrea's opening on being healthy, happy, and fulfilled after a long journey
• (03:22) Growing up a third culture kid on a mission compound in Seoul, South Korea
• (09:15) The communication lesson: wanting to be understood vs. actually listening
• (10:23) The taproot analogy for a rooted sense of self
• (13:55) Soothing loneliness and fear with food, and the 12-week inpatient program at 20
• (18:01) Deciding on gastric bypass surgery, and doing it twice in three weeks
• (21:58) "I can do really hard things": measuring new struggles against old ones
• (25:30) Where intentional optimism was born: her mother's death from breast cancer
• (29:08) The six tenets of intentional optimism
• (32:42) Using the tenets when the dysfunctional person in your life isn't going anywhere
• (38:54) Where to find Andrea and The Intentional Optimist

About Andrea Johnson

Andrea Johnson empowers executives and founders to lead with authenticity, conviction, and confidence. A third culture kid raised on the mission field in Seoul, South Korea, she's also a certified DISC consultant with the Maxwell team, a behavioral analysis speaker trainer and coach, and the founder of The Intentional Optimist, a framework of six tenets for living with hope, presence, and resilience.

Learn more at Andrea's website, where you can find the free rundown of her six tenets.

Favorite quotes "Here I stand, right? Here I am. I am healthy. I am happy. I am fulfilled. I am doing work that I love." —Andrea Johnson "No step is wasted." —Andrea Johnson "I can do really hard things. I can do hard things. I can fall down. I can get back up." —Andrea Johnson Resources mentioned

• TheIntentionalOptimist.com: Andrea's website, home to her six tenets of intentional optimism
• Stephen Covey's "seek first to understand, then be understood" principle, which Andrea references as a foundation of her wisdom tenet

Related episodes

• Weathering the Storm: Resiliency, Grit, and Antifragility: more on building the kind of inner root system Andrea calls a taproot, so life's storms bend you instead of uprooting you.
• Food, Love, Hate, and Your Body: another guest's honest story of the relationship between body, food, and emotional survival, a companion to Andrea's own journey through bulimia and gastric bypass.
• Boundaries – Why Can't I Set Them?: pairs with Andrea's taproot idea, digging into why internal boundaries are so hard to hold onto in dysfunctional relationships.

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

Fifteen years into a career built entirely on asking hard questions, my guest today lost the ability to want to ask them. Julie Rose spent two decades as a national radio journalist, hosting a daily interview show on SiriusXM, and then a few years ago she realized she could no longer stomach engaging with the news, even though that was literally her job. She'd built an entire on-air identity around being fearless enough to ask what everyone else was thinking, and yet in her own personal life she wasn't having those conversations at all. Not even with her own mom, whose politics she couldn't figure out how to talk about without the conversation going nowhere good.

That crisis became Julie's whole second act: figuring out how to talk to people who disagree with you without either avoiding them or turning every exchange into a fight. Her answer, in one word, is curiosity, and she walks me through how she rebuilt that muscle, starting with reading the opinion piece she disagrees with most before she ever opens her mouth in real life. We get into the two hidden beliefs that wreck most hard conversations (that the point is to win, and that listening means agreeing), and a real-time example: a friend's provocative text about "cultural appropriation" that could have ended a 20-year friendship, and instead deepened it.

If you've ever gone quiet rather than risk a fight, or you're avoiding a conversation with someone you love because you're sure it'll go sideways, Julie's method is one of the most practical things you'll hear all year.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGAdmd8sR4g

In this episode

• Why a veteran news journalist stopped being able to stomach the news, and what that crisis taught her about fear
• The two hidden beliefs that make hard conversations go badly: that the point is to win, and that listening means agreeing
• A simple way to practice curiosity before you ever open your mouth: reading the opinion you disagree with most, on purpose
• Dana's "duologue" concept, and how to tell if you're actually listening or just waiting for your turn to talk
• A real-time text-message case study in staying curious with someone who's trying to pick a fight
• Why seeing "the toddler someone once was" changes how you argue with them, for good

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet Julie Rose, 20-year NPR journalist and host of Top of Mind
• (02:03) The moment she lost the desire to engage with the news that was her job
• (05:16) The identity crisis of a self-described "avoider of conflict" who became a journalist
• (07:58) Curiosity as the antidote to fear-driven news consumption
• (15:40) Why most of us were trained to treat conversations as something to win, not learn from
• (24:13) Dana's "duologue": when you're just waiting for your turn to talk, not actually listening
• (25:23) The practice exercise: reading the opinion you disagree with most, on purpose
• (28:49) The real-time test: a friend's provocative text about "cultural appropriation"
• (35:38) The moment empathy cracks open: seeing "the toddler they once were" in someone you disagree with
• (40:44) Where to find Julie: "Top of Mind" and her new podcast, "Uncomfy"

About Julie Rose

Julie Rose has been a radio journalist for 20 years, reporting for NPR, local stations, and network shows like Morning Edition and All Things Considered. She's a Gracie Award winner and multiple Edward R. Murrow Award recipient. In 2015 she began hosting the nationally syndicated interview show "Top of Mind with Julie Rose" on SiriusXM 143, and she recently launched a second podcast, "Uncomfy," about staying with moments that challenge us.

Find her at Top of Mind with Julie Rose, on Instagram, Facebook, or LinkedIn.

Favorite quotes "I discovered the power of curiosity, genuine curiosity." —Julie Rose "Once you have seen in their eyes the toddler that they once were... it's so much harder to just paint them as that scary other." —Julie Rose "When people have strong feelings about issues, most of the time it's not just out of the blue... it's because they've had lived experience that has shaped and affected them." —Julie Rose Resources mentioned

• Top of Mind with Julie Rose: Julie's weekly podcast tackling tough topics with curiosity
• "Uncomfy": Julie's newer podcast about real people who chose to stay in a hard conversation instead of bailing out
• Julie's Instagram account
• Julie's Facebook account
• Julie's LinkedIn account

Related episodes

• "You're Not Alone" Interview Series: Communication Drought (Diana Indries and the Better Topics card game): another practical toolkit for having real conversations instead of small talk
• The Art of True Connection in a Lonely World: more on why so many of us are starving for exactly the kind of conversation Julie describes
• Vulnerability, Authenticity, and Connection: An Interview with Coach Lee Hopkins: the vulnerability side of staying open in a hard conversation

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

A gentle note before you dive in: this conversation touches on suicide, violence, and childhood abuse. It's okay to pause, skip ahead, or come back to this one another time.

Birgitta Visser needed four hours of frog poison, a purging bucket, and a shaman telling her flat out, "your ego was sitting in the driver's seat and was refusing to let go," before she could finally heal from abuse and set boundaries for good. Getting to that mat took a while: abuse from a family friend at 10 or 11, her father's sudden death at 44 when she was 14, an eating disorder that had her throwing away her own school lunch, and a 2009 crisis (her ex-boyfriend's kidnapping by a gang, a death threat from the gang's leader, and an attempt on her own life) severe enough to finally send her looking for real help.

Birgitta is now a light empowerment coach and light language healer, but what she wants you to actually take from her story isn't the mystical stuff, it's the boundaries. For years she was, in her words, a magnet for "broken birds": paying other people's bills, finding them jobs, going the extra mile for partners who never returned it, because nobody had ever taught her she was allowed to say no. We talk about how one piece of unhealed trauma creates the next, why the most empathetic people in the room are usually the ones who need boundaries the most, and what it actually took (years of Reiki and EFT, and eventually that frog poison) to finally believe she was worth protecting.

If you've ever people-pleased yourself into exhaustion, or you're still carrying something from your own childhood you've never quite named, Birgitta's story is proof that the ugly middle of a demolition really does lead somewhere beautiful.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVU0Ek_mgGo

In this episode

• Why one unhealed wound creates the next, and how abuse from a family friend at 10 or 11 shaped decades of Birgitta's relationships
• The eating disorder that started in high school, and the modeling-industry rejection that followed
• What it actually took to survive a 2009 crisis (her ex-boyfriend's kidnapping by a gang, a death threat against her, and a suicide attempt) and start over
• Why the most empathetic, "high-vibration" people are often the ones who need boundaries the most
• Inside a shamanic Kambo ceremony: what four hours of purging taught her about her own ego
• How to stop being a magnet for "broken birds" in your relationships and start protecting your own energy

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet Birgitta Visser, light empowerment coach and light language healer
• (02:10) Growing up a self-described "nomad" between Holland and Malaysia, and abuse from a family friend at 10 or 11
• (04:41) Her father's sudden death at 44, and a mother left with nothing
• (05:40) The eating disorder that started with throwing away her own school lunch
• (07:46) Modeling rejection, and the stepfather's death that led to a three-month stint with drugs
• (13:58) Learning to set boundaries, one broken relationship at a time
• (15:51) Hitting rock bottom in 2009: her ex-boyfriend's kidnapping by a gang, a death threat against her, and a suicide attempt
• (21:31) Studying Reiki, EFT, and other healing modalities after her first counselor didn't help
• (28:30) Inside a shamanic Kambo ceremony: four hours of purging and a lesson about her ego
• (31:26) Her book, "Becoming Authentically Me"
• (34:32) Where to find Birgitta: powersoulhealing.com

About Birgitta Visser

Birgitta Visser is a light empowerment coach, divine channel, and light language healer. She is the author of "Becoming Authentically Me" and contributed a chapter, "A Journey to the Light Within," to a collaborative book with 13 other women authors.

Learn more at PowerSoulHealing.com.

Favorite quotes "One bit of trauma creates another bit of trauma if it's not healed." —Birgitta Visser "Everything we need is inside ourselves." —Birgitta Visser "It's not, why is this happening to us? But why is this happening for us? Big difference." —Birgitta Visser Resources mentioned

• PowerSoulHealing.com: Birgitta's website
• Becoming Authentically Me: Birgitta's book
• Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT), the "tapping" modality Birgitta trained in as part of her healing journey
• Reiki, the energy-healing practice Birgitta calls her "saving grace," which she later trained others in as a Reiki master

Related episodes

• Healing From Narcissistic Abuse: more on recognizing and recovering from relationships that take and take
• From Fragile to Fierce: Rebecca Whitman's 7 Pillars of Abundance: another guest's framework for rebuilding after repeated hardship
• How Unresolved Trauma Is Ruling Your Life: the deeper mechanics behind why Birgitta says "one bit of trauma creates another"

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

At 16, my guest today got pregnant while trying to draw a boundary with a boyfriend she didn't even want to be with. She didn't know how to say no, so she said yes instead, and ended up carrying a secret she told no one about for years. That's the "ash pile" January Donovan built her entire career out of: not knowing her own self-worth, and suffering for it in silence. Today she's the founder of The Woman School, a two-time bestselling author, and a coach with 25 years of experience helping women figure out exactly what she didn't have anyone to teach her.

January's whole thesis is that women aren't struggling because we're weak, we're struggling because we're untrained. She splits her work into mindset and skillset for a reason: you can say all the affirmations you want, but if you don't also know how to build a routine, say no to social media, or communicate a boundary out loud, the affirmation falls flat every time. We get into why she thinks 95% of your self-worth is running on subconscious autopilot, why women make roughly 35,000 decisions a day and end up drowning in decision fatigue, and how to raise disciplined kids without feeling like you're "stifling their spirits."

January is also a mom of eight who gets up before 4:30 every morning, so when she talks about protecting your own worth without losing your family in the process, she's not talking theory.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4MdC2lgsKw

In this episode

• Why January says most women were "never taught how to be a woman," and the "formation" method she built to fix that
• The pregnancy at 16 she kept secret for years, and what it taught her about worth not being conditional
• The difference between mindset and skillset work, and why affirmations alone don't change behavior
• Why women make roughly 35,000 decisions a day, and how that decision fatigue quietly wrecks a home
• How to teach kids discipline without believing you're "stifling their spirits"
• Her take on keeping intimacy alive in a long relationship when life keeps pulling you in every other direction

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet January Donovan, founder of The Woman School
• (01:36) Why The Woman School exists: training women in a world that devalues them
• (05:28) The pregnancy at 16, the secret she carried, and the shame that followed
• (09:20) Mindset vs. skillset: why affirmations alone don't change behavior
• (14:24) Undoing the lie that your value is conditional
• (18:45) What separates the women who commit to the work from the women who don't
• (23:39) Owning your worth as the antidote to fear of vulnerability
• (27:21) Discipline, boundaries, and raising eight kids without losing yourself
• (33:36) How to sustain intimacy in a long relationship when life gets in the way
• (38:41) Where to find January: thewomanschool.com

About January Donovan

January Donovan is the founder of The Woman School, a mindset-and-skillset training program for women, and a two-time bestselling author of "Redefine Success for Women" and "This Is The Me I Choose To Be." She has 25 years of experience coaching women, was featured on Forbes' list of top self-worth strategists, built a multi-million-dollar business in two years, and has shared the stage with speakers including Ed Mylett, John Maxwell, Russell Brunson, and Amy Porterfield.

Learn more about her training and courses at TheWomanSchool.com.

Favorite quotes "We have to bring honor back, what it means to be a woman." —January Donovan "Nothing we will do, say, changes our value." —January Donovan "If you're not growing, you're dying." —January Donovan Resources mentioned

• TheWomanSchool.com: January's mindset-and-skillset training program for women
• Redefine Success for Women: January's book
• This Is The Me I Choose To Be: January's book
• Women's Fulfillment Workbook by January Donovan

Related episodes

• Boundaries - Why Can't I Set Them?: more on the fear that keeps women from setting the boundary January says she couldn't set at 16
• People-Pleasing and the Sticky Rope: the pattern behind why so many women say yes when they mean no
• Say "No" Like It's Your Job!: a practical companion piece on treating boundary-setting as a skill you train, not a personality trait

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

A gentle note before you dive in: this conversation touches on abuse of a vulnerable adult. It's okay to pause, skip ahead, or come back to this one another time.

My guest today was born 13 weeks early, one pound thirteen ounces, so small the local hospital in Aspen didn't know what to do with her. Doctors of that era told parents of kids born with cerebral palsy to institutionalize them and expect nothing. Win Charles' mother said no way, no how. That refusal is the first fight in a life full of them: Win went on to compete in the Kona Ironman Triathlon, run her own jewelry design company, and write a memoir about growing up with CP. But the fight I most want you to hear about today happened much more recently, in the raw grief right after her father's death in 2019, when a family member she trusted crossed a line so far it triggered a mandatory report and a full Adult Protective Services investigation.

Win's own background is in early childhood education, which made her a mandatory reporter herself, and she credits that training with helping her recognize what was happening to her and get herself somewhere safe. She walks me through what it's like to give a formal witness statement as a crime victim, the custody battle her extended family launched that October, a judge shutting it down, and the work she's doing now, in Codependents Anonymous, to unlearn the habits abuse and a lifetime of needing others' help had built into her.

If you've ever wondered how to trust your gut when something feels wrong with how a family member or caregiver is treating someone vulnerable, or you're a disabled or chronically ill adult navigating your own caregiving relationships, this conversation is a hard, important listen.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FP4UjQCEH-Q

In this episode

• Born 13 weeks early at one pound thirteen ounces with cerebral palsy, and how her mother refused doctors' advice to institutionalize her
• How grief after her father's 2019 death opened the door to abuse from extended family, and the Adult Protective Services case that followed
• Why her own background as a mandatory reporter helped her recognize what was happening to her and get to safety
• What it's like to give a formal "professional interview" as a crime victim, and how the case ended with a judge denying her family custody
• How Win channeled decades of trauma into a Kona Ironman Triathlon finish, a jewelry design company, and a memoir
• Why she's now in Codependents Anonymous, unlearning the "control freak" habits she once blamed entirely on her cerebral palsy

Timestamps

• (00:05) Welcome and guest intro: meet Win Charles, cerebral palsy memoirist and Ironman triathlete
• (00:50) Born 13 weeks early at one pound thirteen ounces, and the mother who refused to institutionalize her
• (04:19) Her mother's sudden decline from an undiagnosed brain aneurysm
• (07:15) Losing her mother after a month in a medically induced coma
• (09:12) Losing her father in 2019, and the nine days she spent caring for him herself before he passed
• (19:41) The incident with extended family that escalated into abuse
• (21:10) Why her background as a mandatory reporter mattered in that moment
• (31:50) Giving a formal "professional interview" to Adult Protective Services
• (36:46) The October 2019 custody battle, and the judge's ruling
• (37:44) Feeling safe now, and the move to Phoenix, Arizona
• (38:14) Codependents Anonymous, and unlearning "control freak" habits
• (39:43) Where to find Win and her podcast, "CEO of a Disability"

About Win Charles

Win Charles was born with cerebral palsy and has gone on to compete in the Kona Ironman Triathlon, run her own jewelry design company, and write a memoir about her life with CP. She now hosts the podcast "CEO of a Disability" and works as a motivational speaker.

Find her podcast and more at ceodisability.buzzsprout.com.

Favorite quotes "My mom said, no way, no how." —Win Charles, on her mother refusing doctors' advice to institutionalize her "If you see something suspicious with a family member... dig deep, dig deep, because it happens all the time." —Win Charles "I'm now breaking the stigma of my family." —Win Charles Resources mentioned

• Win Charles's memoir, available via this link
• CEO of a Disability: Win's podcast
• Codependents Anonymous (CoDA), the support group Win credits with helping her unlearn codependent patterns

Related episodes

• Victory Over Quadruple Amputation: Interview with Wendy Wallace: another guest turning a life-altering physical challenge into a story of triumph
• From Toxic Family to Triumph: Interview With Susan Gold: more on surviving abuse from the people who are supposed to protect you
• Surviving Toxic Relationships: Interview with Shannon Petrovich: recognizing and getting out of relationships that cross the line

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

Do you have skepticism regarding religion or spirituality? Have you ever wanted to believe but didn't want to be fooled by exaggerations and misdirection? Listen to Rev. Dr. David Chotka's life journey from decorating Christmas trees at the strip club to becoming a pastor.

www.spiritequip.com

My guest today comes from a family of hairdressers and electricians, no doctors anywhere on the tree, and her own brother used to tell her she must have been swapped at birth. That joke was covering for something real: at 14, in a house gone chaotic with her brother's older friends and her parents elsewhere, she was touched in the night by someone in that circle, more than once, and never told a soul. Dr. Cindy Starke didn't call it trauma for another two decades. What she did instead is a masterclass in how childhood trauma hides in the body: she got out, got educated (an MD and a PhD in molecular genetics from Emory, after failing the SAT so many times she stopped counting), and built a 20-year career as a board-certified internal medicine physician without ever looking back.

Until her body made her look. Years of swallowing her own boundaries, in her marriage most of all, scarred her esophagus down from 15 millimeters to one or two: an actual, physical stricture, built one un-said "no" at a time. It took an empty COVID hospital and a year of forced stillness for her to remember what happened at 14 and finally process it. Now Dr. Starke runs "clearings," a trauma-release process she developed to help other women (nurses, mostly, at first) find their literal voice again, the same way she found hers.

We talk about the difference between a physician and a healer, the SAT she took seven times to win a scholarship her parents couldn't afford, and why she says the most uncomfortable thing you'll ever do is easier than living with an unhealed wound for the rest of your life.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJhthL0ssWk

In this episode

• Why childhood trauma can physically scar your body years later, and the esophageal stricture Dr. Starke traces straight back to a marriage full of unset boundaries
• How growing up in a house of "altered" 19-year-olds at 14 taught her to bury an abuse she wouldn't name for 20 years
• The stubborn kind of grit it takes to fail a board exam twice and take the SAT seven times, and why she calls that resilience, not embarrassment
• What a "clearing" actually looks like, and why one client got her literal voice back within three sessions
• Why she walked away from 30 years of full-time medicine despite $210,000 in scholarships riding on the career, and how she decided she was allowed to
• Dana's football-pads-on-a-golf-course analogy for why the defenses that protected you as a kid can wreck you as an adult

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet Dr. Cindy Starke, MD/PhD in molecular genetics
• (01:47) Growing up the only "enigma" in a family of hairdressers and electricians
• (02:46) The house full of her brother's older friends, and the abuse she didn't tell anyone about at 14
• (07:09) The board exam she failed twice, and the test anxiety she's not embarrassed to admit
• (09:34) Taking the SAT seven times to win the scholarship her parents couldn't afford
• (12:48) COVID, an empty hospital, and the year-long healing journey that followed
• (14:20) Realizing medicine wasn't helping people heal, just cycling them through a revolving door
• (18:24) Inside a "clearing": what actually gets a client's voice back
• (21:02) The esophageal stricture, unset boundaries in her marriage, and "The Body Keeps the Score"
• (30:44) Dana's football-pads-on-a-golf-course analogy for outgrowing childhood defenses
• (32:59) Walking away from 30 years of full-time medicine to become a boundaries coach
• (36:20) Where to find Dr. Starke: her website, book, free "spark call," and Facebook Lives

About Dr. Cindy Starke

Dr. Cindy Starke holds both an MD and a PhD in molecular genetics from Emory University, and spent over 20 years as a board-certified internal medicine physician, with genetic research published in the Journal of Bacteriology and the Journal of Infectious Diseases. She now works part-time as a hospice medical director and runs an online program helping women process childhood trauma and set boundaries through a process she calls "clearings," built on NLP and trauma-release techniques.

Learn more, book a free 15-minute "spark call," or find her book at drcindystarke.com.

Favorite quotes "I always say the trauma is not what happened to you. It's what you tell yourself that means about you." —Dr. Cindy Starke "What's more uncomfortable, living with that for the rest of your life?" —Dr. Cindy Starke, on facing a wound instead of medicating around it "I am worthy of having a life that I want to design on my own." —Dr. Cindy Starke Resources mentioned

• DrCindyStarke.com: Dr. Starke's website, with her book, a free 15-minute "spark call," and links to her media appearances
• Dr. Cindy Starke's award-winning book, available via this link
• "The Body Keeps the Score" by Bessel van der Kolk, referenced by Dana on how trauma lodges in the body

Related episodes

• How Unresolved Trauma Is Ruling Your Life: more on the mechanics of how old wounds keep steering your present-day choices
• Boundaries - Why Can't I Set Them?: a deeper dive into the people-pleasing patterns Dr. Starke describes learning from her own mom
• Getting Pulled Into the Past: Our Shame Response and the Impact of Unprocessed Trauma: the psychology behind why unprocessed trauma resurfaces years later

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz