A gentle note before you dive in: this conversation touches on suicide, violence, and childhood abuse. It's okay to pause, skip ahead, or come back to this one another time.

Birgitta Visser needed four hours of frog poison, a purging bucket, and a shaman telling her flat out, "your ego was sitting in the driver's seat and was refusing to let go," before she could finally heal from abuse and set boundaries for good. Getting to that mat took a while: abuse from a family friend at 10 or 11, her father's sudden death at 44 when she was 14, an eating disorder that had her throwing away her own school lunch, and a 2009 crisis (her ex-boyfriend's kidnapping by a gang, a death threat from the gang's leader, and an attempt on her own life) severe enough to finally send her looking for real help.

Birgitta is now a light empowerment coach and light language healer, but what she wants you to actually take from her story isn't the mystical stuff, it's the boundaries. For years she was, in her words, a magnet for "broken birds": paying other people's bills, finding them jobs, going the extra mile for partners who never returned it, because nobody had ever taught her she was allowed to say no. We talk about how one piece of unhealed trauma creates the next, why the most empathetic people in the room are usually the ones who need boundaries the most, and what it actually took (years of Reiki and EFT, and eventually that frog poison) to finally believe she was worth protecting.

If you've ever people-pleased yourself into exhaustion, or you're still carrying something from your own childhood you've never quite named, Birgitta's story is proof that the ugly middle of a demolition really does lead somewhere beautiful.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVU0Ek_mgGo

In this episode

• Why one unhealed wound creates the next, and how abuse from a family friend at 10 or 11 shaped decades of Birgitta's relationships
• The eating disorder that started in high school, and the modeling-industry rejection that followed
• What it actually took to survive a 2009 crisis (her ex-boyfriend's kidnapping by a gang, a death threat against her, and a suicide attempt) and start over
• Why the most empathetic, "high-vibration" people are often the ones who need boundaries the most
• Inside a shamanic Kambo ceremony: what four hours of purging taught her about her own ego
• How to stop being a magnet for "broken birds" in your relationships and start protecting your own energy

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet Birgitta Visser, light empowerment coach and light language healer
• (02:10) Growing up a self-described "nomad" between Holland and Malaysia, and abuse from a family friend at 10 or 11
• (04:41) Her father's sudden death at 44, and a mother left with nothing
• (05:40) The eating disorder that started with throwing away her own school lunch
• (07:46) Modeling rejection, and the stepfather's death that led to a three-month stint with drugs
• (13:58) Learning to set boundaries, one broken relationship at a time
• (15:51) Hitting rock bottom in 2009: her ex-boyfriend's kidnapping by a gang, a death threat against her, and a suicide attempt
• (21:31) Studying Reiki, EFT, and other healing modalities after her first counselor didn't help
• (28:30) Inside a shamanic Kambo ceremony: four hours of purging and a lesson about her ego
• (31:26) Her book, "Becoming Authentically Me"
• (34:32) Where to find Birgitta: powersoulhealing.com

About Birgitta Visser

Birgitta Visser is a light empowerment coach, divine channel, and light language healer. She is the author of "Becoming Authentically Me" and contributed a chapter, "A Journey to the Light Within," to a collaborative book with 13 other women authors.

Learn more at PowerSoulHealing.com.

Favorite quotes "One bit of trauma creates another bit of trauma if it's not healed." —Birgitta Visser "Everything we need is inside ourselves." —Birgitta Visser "It's not, why is this happening to us? But why is this happening for us? Big difference." —Birgitta Visser Resources mentioned

• PowerSoulHealing.com: Birgitta's website
• Becoming Authentically Me: Birgitta's book
• Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT), the "tapping" modality Birgitta trained in as part of her healing journey
• Reiki, the energy-healing practice Birgitta calls her "saving grace," which she later trained others in as a Reiki master

Related episodes

• Healing From Narcissistic Abuse: more on recognizing and recovering from relationships that take and take
• From Fragile to Fierce: Rebecca Whitman's 7 Pillars of Abundance: another guest's framework for rebuilding after repeated hardship
• How Unresolved Trauma Is Ruling Your Life: the deeper mechanics behind why Birgitta says "one bit of trauma creates another"

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

At 16, my guest today got pregnant while trying to draw a boundary with a boyfriend she didn't even want to be with. She didn't know how to say no, so she said yes instead, and ended up carrying a secret she told no one about for years. That's the "ash pile" January Donovan built her entire career out of: not knowing her own self-worth, and suffering for it in silence. Today she's the founder of The Woman School, a two-time bestselling author, and a coach with 25 years of experience helping women figure out exactly what she didn't have anyone to teach her.

January's whole thesis is that women aren't struggling because we're weak, we're struggling because we're untrained. She splits her work into mindset and skillset for a reason: you can say all the affirmations you want, but if you don't also know how to build a routine, say no to social media, or communicate a boundary out loud, the affirmation falls flat every time. We get into why she thinks 95% of your self-worth is running on subconscious autopilot, why women make roughly 35,000 decisions a day and end up drowning in decision fatigue, and how to raise disciplined kids without feeling like you're "stifling their spirits."

January is also a mom of eight who gets up before 4:30 every morning, so when she talks about protecting your own worth without losing your family in the process, she's not talking theory.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4MdC2lgsKw

In this episode

• Why January says most women were "never taught how to be a woman," and the "formation" method she built to fix that
• The pregnancy at 16 she kept secret for years, and what it taught her about worth not being conditional
• The difference between mindset and skillset work, and why affirmations alone don't change behavior
• Why women make roughly 35,000 decisions a day, and how that decision fatigue quietly wrecks a home
• How to teach kids discipline without believing you're "stifling their spirits"
• Her take on keeping intimacy alive in a long relationship when life keeps pulling you in every other direction

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet January Donovan, founder of The Woman School
• (01:36) Why The Woman School exists: training women in a world that devalues them
• (05:28) The pregnancy at 16, the secret she carried, and the shame that followed
• (09:20) Mindset vs. skillset: why affirmations alone don't change behavior
• (14:24) Undoing the lie that your value is conditional
• (18:45) What separates the women who commit to the work from the women who don't
• (23:39) Owning your worth as the antidote to fear of vulnerability
• (27:21) Discipline, boundaries, and raising eight kids without losing yourself
• (33:36) How to sustain intimacy in a long relationship when life gets in the way
• (38:41) Where to find January: thewomanschool.com

About January Donovan

January Donovan is the founder of The Woman School, a mindset-and-skillset training program for women, and a two-time bestselling author of "Redefine Success for Women" and "This Is The Me I Choose To Be." She has 25 years of experience coaching women, was featured on Forbes' list of top self-worth strategists, built a multi-million-dollar business in two years, and has shared the stage with speakers including Ed Mylett, John Maxwell, Russell Brunson, and Amy Porterfield.

Learn more about her training and courses at TheWomanSchool.com.

Favorite quotes "We have to bring honor back, what it means to be a woman." —January Donovan "Nothing we will do, say, changes our value." —January Donovan "If you're not growing, you're dying." —January Donovan Resources mentioned

• TheWomanSchool.com: January's mindset-and-skillset training program for women
• Redefine Success for Women: January's book
• This Is The Me I Choose To Be: January's book
• Women's Fulfillment Workbook by January Donovan

Related episodes

• Boundaries - Why Can't I Set Them?: more on the fear that keeps women from setting the boundary January says she couldn't set at 16
• People-Pleasing and the Sticky Rope: the pattern behind why so many women say yes when they mean no
• Say "No" Like It's Your Job!: a practical companion piece on treating boundary-setting as a skill you train, not a personality trait

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

A gentle note before you dive in: this conversation touches on abuse of a vulnerable adult. It's okay to pause, skip ahead, or come back to this one another time.

My guest today was born 13 weeks early, one pound thirteen ounces, so small the local hospital in Aspen didn't know what to do with her. Doctors of that era told parents of kids born with cerebral palsy to institutionalize them and expect nothing. Win Charles' mother said no way, no how. That refusal is the first fight in a life full of them: Win went on to compete in the Kona Ironman Triathlon, run her own jewelry design company, and write a memoir about growing up with CP. But the fight I most want you to hear about today happened much more recently, in the raw grief right after her father's death in 2019, when a family member she trusted crossed a line so far it triggered a mandatory report and a full Adult Protective Services investigation.

Win's own background is in early childhood education, which made her a mandatory reporter herself, and she credits that training with helping her recognize what was happening to her and get herself somewhere safe. She walks me through what it's like to give a formal witness statement as a crime victim, the custody battle her extended family launched that October, a judge shutting it down, and the work she's doing now, in Codependents Anonymous, to unlearn the habits abuse and a lifetime of needing others' help had built into her.

If you've ever wondered how to trust your gut when something feels wrong with how a family member or caregiver is treating someone vulnerable, or you're a disabled or chronically ill adult navigating your own caregiving relationships, this conversation is a hard, important listen.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FP4UjQCEH-Q

In this episode

• Born 13 weeks early at one pound thirteen ounces with cerebral palsy, and how her mother refused doctors' advice to institutionalize her
• How grief after her father's 2019 death opened the door to abuse from extended family, and the Adult Protective Services case that followed
• Why her own background as a mandatory reporter helped her recognize what was happening to her and get to safety
• What it's like to give a formal "professional interview" as a crime victim, and how the case ended with a judge denying her family custody
• How Win channeled decades of trauma into a Kona Ironman Triathlon finish, a jewelry design company, and a memoir
• Why she's now in Codependents Anonymous, unlearning the "control freak" habits she once blamed entirely on her cerebral palsy

Timestamps

• (00:05) Welcome and guest intro: meet Win Charles, cerebral palsy memoirist and Ironman triathlete
• (00:50) Born 13 weeks early at one pound thirteen ounces, and the mother who refused to institutionalize her
• (04:19) Her mother's sudden decline from an undiagnosed brain aneurysm
• (07:15) Losing her mother after a month in a medically induced coma
• (09:12) Losing her father in 2019, and the nine days she spent caring for him herself before he passed
• (19:41) The incident with extended family that escalated into abuse
• (21:10) Why her background as a mandatory reporter mattered in that moment
• (31:50) Giving a formal "professional interview" to Adult Protective Services
• (36:46) The October 2019 custody battle, and the judge's ruling
• (37:44) Feeling safe now, and the move to Phoenix, Arizona
• (38:14) Codependents Anonymous, and unlearning "control freak" habits
• (39:43) Where to find Win and her podcast, "CEO of a Disability"

About Win Charles

Win Charles was born with cerebral palsy and has gone on to compete in the Kona Ironman Triathlon, run her own jewelry design company, and write a memoir about her life with CP. She now hosts the podcast "CEO of a Disability" and works as a motivational speaker.

Find her podcast and more at ceodisability.buzzsprout.com.

Favorite quotes "My mom said, no way, no how." —Win Charles, on her mother refusing doctors' advice to institutionalize her "If you see something suspicious with a family member... dig deep, dig deep, because it happens all the time." —Win Charles "I'm now breaking the stigma of my family." —Win Charles Resources mentioned

• Win Charles's memoir, available via this link
• CEO of a Disability: Win's podcast
• Codependents Anonymous (CoDA), the support group Win credits with helping her unlearn codependent patterns

Related episodes

• Victory Over Quadruple Amputation: Interview with Wendy Wallace: another guest turning a life-altering physical challenge into a story of triumph
• From Toxic Family to Triumph: Interview With Susan Gold: more on surviving abuse from the people who are supposed to protect you
• Surviving Toxic Relationships: Interview with Shannon Petrovich: recognizing and getting out of relationships that cross the line

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

Do you have skepticism regarding religion or spirituality? Have you ever wanted to believe but didn't want to be fooled by exaggerations and misdirection? Listen to Rev. Dr. David Chotka's life journey from decorating Christmas trees at the strip club to becoming a pastor.

www.spiritequip.com

My guest today comes from a family of hairdressers and electricians, no doctors anywhere on the tree, and her own brother used to tell her she must have been swapped at birth. That joke was covering for something real: at 14, in a house gone chaotic with her brother's older friends and her parents elsewhere, she was touched in the night by someone in that circle, more than once, and never told a soul. Dr. Cindy Starke didn't call it trauma for another two decades. What she did instead is a masterclass in how childhood trauma hides in the body: she got out, got educated (an MD and a PhD in molecular genetics from Emory, after failing the SAT so many times she stopped counting), and built a 20-year career as a board-certified internal medicine physician without ever looking back.

Until her body made her look. Years of swallowing her own boundaries, in her marriage most of all, scarred her esophagus down from 15 millimeters to one or two: an actual, physical stricture, built one un-said "no" at a time. It took an empty COVID hospital and a year of forced stillness for her to remember what happened at 14 and finally process it. Now Dr. Starke runs "clearings," a trauma-release process she developed to help other women (nurses, mostly, at first) find their literal voice again, the same way she found hers.

We talk about the difference between a physician and a healer, the SAT she took seven times to win a scholarship her parents couldn't afford, and why she says the most uncomfortable thing you'll ever do is easier than living with an unhealed wound for the rest of your life.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJhthL0ssWk

In this episode

• Why childhood trauma can physically scar your body years later, and the esophageal stricture Dr. Starke traces straight back to a marriage full of unset boundaries
• How growing up in a house of "altered" 19-year-olds at 14 taught her to bury an abuse she wouldn't name for 20 years
• The stubborn kind of grit it takes to fail a board exam twice and take the SAT seven times, and why she calls that resilience, not embarrassment
• What a "clearing" actually looks like, and why one client got her literal voice back within three sessions
• Why she walked away from 30 years of full-time medicine despite $210,000 in scholarships riding on the career, and how she decided she was allowed to
• Dana's football-pads-on-a-golf-course analogy for why the defenses that protected you as a kid can wreck you as an adult

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet Dr. Cindy Starke, MD/PhD in molecular genetics
• (01:47) Growing up the only "enigma" in a family of hairdressers and electricians
• (02:46) The house full of her brother's older friends, and the abuse she didn't tell anyone about at 14
• (07:09) The board exam she failed twice, and the test anxiety she's not embarrassed to admit
• (09:34) Taking the SAT seven times to win the scholarship her parents couldn't afford
• (12:48) COVID, an empty hospital, and the year-long healing journey that followed
• (14:20) Realizing medicine wasn't helping people heal, just cycling them through a revolving door
• (18:24) Inside a "clearing": what actually gets a client's voice back
• (21:02) The esophageal stricture, unset boundaries in her marriage, and "The Body Keeps the Score"
• (30:44) Dana's football-pads-on-a-golf-course analogy for outgrowing childhood defenses
• (32:59) Walking away from 30 years of full-time medicine to become a boundaries coach
• (36:20) Where to find Dr. Starke: her website, book, free "spark call," and Facebook Lives

About Dr. Cindy Starke

Dr. Cindy Starke holds both an MD and a PhD in molecular genetics from Emory University, and spent over 20 years as a board-certified internal medicine physician, with genetic research published in the Journal of Bacteriology and the Journal of Infectious Diseases. She now works part-time as a hospice medical director and runs an online program helping women process childhood trauma and set boundaries through a process she calls "clearings," built on NLP and trauma-release techniques.

Learn more, book a free 15-minute "spark call," or find her book at drcindystarke.com.

Favorite quotes "I always say the trauma is not what happened to you. It's what you tell yourself that means about you." —Dr. Cindy Starke "What's more uncomfortable, living with that for the rest of your life?" —Dr. Cindy Starke, on facing a wound instead of medicating around it "I am worthy of having a life that I want to design on my own." —Dr. Cindy Starke Resources mentioned

• DrCindyStarke.com: Dr. Starke's website, with her book, a free 15-minute "spark call," and links to her media appearances
• Dr. Cindy Starke's award-winning book, available via this link
• "The Body Keeps the Score" by Bessel van der Kolk, referenced by Dana on how trauma lodges in the body

Related episodes

• How Unresolved Trauma Is Ruling Your Life: more on the mechanics of how old wounds keep steering your present-day choices
• Boundaries - Why Can't I Set Them?: a deeper dive into the people-pleasing patterns Dr. Starke describes learning from her own mom
• Getting Pulled Into the Past: Our Shame Response and the Impact of Unprocessed Trauma: the psychology behind why unprocessed trauma resurfaces years later

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

Every single one of us has, at some point, had sex or done the dishes while mentally drafting a grocery list. Stay with me, because that image is actually the hook for some genuinely fascinating research my guest shared today: when your mind wanders, you're less happy, and it doesn't matter what you're doing. That's not correlation, it's causation, straight out of a study published in the journal Science. My guest, Ann Swanson, has dealt with anxiety so extreme she would pass out, chronic pain since her teen years, and debilitating perfectionism. She says if she can meditate, anyone can meditate, and after years of studying the research, she's built a whole practice around proving it.

Ann's first book, Science of Yoga, has sold over half a million copies. Her newest, Meditation for the Real World, was written with Harvard researcher Dr. Sarah Lazar to show that meditation isn't "woo-woo," it's neuroscience: meditators in their fifties can have brain structures that look like non-meditators in their twenties, and the practice touches your cardiovascular health, your cellular function, and your relationships. We get into the myth that's keeping most people from ever starting (that meditation means stopping your thoughts), the "sigh, see, start"-style cycle your mind actually goes through, and one-minute meditations you can do standing in line, in the car, or mid-panic attack.

We also do a real loving-kindness meditation together, out loud, on the show. If you've ever thought meditation requires 20 minutes of sitting perfectly still, this conversation will change your mind.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GIBDlT5Sgo

In this episode

• Why a wandering mind isn't meditation failing, it's the second step in a normal cycle, and noticing it is the whole skill
• The neuroscience behind why meditators in their 50s can have brain structures similar to non-meditators in their 20s
• One-minute meditations you can do standing in line, in your car, or before a stressful moment, no cushion required
• Why present-moment attention, not the activity itself, is what research links to actual happiness
• A simple loving-kindness (metta) practice for perfectionists who find self-compassion the hardest part
• How to use road rage, of all things, as a loving-kindness practice

Timestamps

• (00:58) Welcome and guest intro: meet Ann Swanson, author of Science of Yoga and Meditation for the Real World
• (03:03) Why meditation research matters, and what it shows about the brain
• (08:09) One-minute meditations, and the woman on the book cover meditating in the subway
• (09:15) Anxiety so severe it caused Ann to pass out, and how she started with physical practices first
• (14:40) The biggest misconception about meditation: that your thoughts are supposed to go quiet
• (16:26) The research from the journal Science: mind-wandering and happiness are directly linked
• (19:05) Using your five senses to anchor into the present moment
• (21:41) The 3-2-1 grounding technique (a shorter version of 5-4-3-2-1)
• (24:41) Gratitude, "glimmers," and the three secrets to happiness
• (27:51) Loving-kindness (metta) meditation, and doing it live on the show
• (32:03) Using loving-kindness meditation for road rage

About Ann Swanson

Ann Swanson is the author of Science of Yoga, which has sold over half a million copies, and Meditation for the Real World, co-written with Harvard researcher Dr. Sarah Lazar. She has dealt with severe anxiety, chronic pain since her teen years, and debilitating perfectionism, and now teaches science-backed meditation practices for busy people with busy minds.

Learn more and get her free meditation challenge at MeditationForTheRealWorld.com, find her book here, or follow her on Instagram at Science.of.Yoga.

Favorite quotes "When you are present, you are happy. And when you're not present, you're not happy. Doesn't matter what you're doing." —Ann Swanson "If we could sit alone with our thoughts in a quiet room, then there would be world peace." —Ann Swanson "Rather than scrolling while we wait, why don't we meditate while we wait?" —Ann Swanson Resources mentioned

• MeditationForTheRealWorld.com: Ann's free meditation challenge, built around music and nature sounds engineered to optimize your brainwaves
• "Meditation for the Real World" by Ann Swanson: her book, co-written with Harvard researcher Dr. Sarah Lazar
• "Science of Yoga" by Ann Swanson, her first book, on the research behind yoga's physical poses, meditation, and breathing practices
• Greater Good Science Center: the research center Ann cites for its work on gratitude and happiness

Related episodes

For more on quieting an anxious, busy mind, try:

• "Sigh, See, Start": The ShouldStorm Antidote: Dr. Alison Escalante's quick-reset method that pairs naturally with Ann's one-minute meditations.
• Blair Abee: How Meditation Saved His Sanity: another guest's firsthand account of meditation pulling him back from the edge.

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

My guest today told me her podcast intro calls are basically vetting sessions, because she doesn't want boring people on her show. "Small talk is virtually non-existent," she said. "It's basically like, hi, how are you doing? And one of my best friends said this: I don't care about the weather, I want to know what your deepest trauma is." That's Nikki LaCroce, and once we got into her deepest trauma, I understood exactly why she vets her guests. In early 2021, Nikki experienced what she calls her personal Armageddon: leaving a decade-long relationship with a covert narcissist while simultaneously losing her mother in the middle of the pandemic.

Nikki is a podcaster (Can I Just Say?) and, like me, someone who believes the most important conversations aren't the polished ones, they're the real ones. We talk about the difference between overt and covert narcissism (her ex was covert, which she says made the gaslighting and love bombing almost impossible to name at the time), the "pain threshold" that finally pushes someone to leave, and why one of her best friends telling her "you're asking for the bare minimum and you're not even getting that" was the sentence that changed everything.

We also get honest about the guilt that lingers after you leave, especially when leaving means you also lose time you'll never get back with people you love, and the deal-breakers exercise Nikki did to rebuild her own sense of self from the ground up.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VPHk5B8Kvc

In this episode

• Why covert narcissism is so much harder to spot than the "textbook" version, and why gaslighting doesn't always look dramatic
• What the "pain threshold" is, and why it takes crossing it to finally leave an unhealthy relationship
• How gratitude helped Nikki hold onto her sense of self while she was still in the relationship, not just after
• Why regaining your sense of self, not the breakup itself, is the hardest part of leaving a narcissist
• The deal-breakers exercise Nikki used to rebuild her own standards for a relationship
• How to release the guilt and shame that linger after you leave, especially the guilt over time you can't get back

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet podcaster Nikki LaCroce
• (05:38) The 2017 move to Seattle, and the toxic job that came before it
• (11:52) Starting therapy, and the therapist who said "if you're going to do this, you commit to going weekly"
• (12:12) The "pain threshold": what it takes before we're willing to do the work of change
• (18:21) The intersection of gratitude, mental health, and connection
• (22:41) Covert vs. overt narcissism, and why Nikki didn't recognize love bombing and gaslighting as they were happening
• (28:21) You deserve to be freed from the abuse, and you deserve to heal from it
• (33:19) Releasing guilt and shame after leaving an abusive relationship
• (35:53) Why it takes an average of seven tries to leave an abusive relationship
• (38:07) The deal-breakers exercise: rebuilding your own standards from scratch

About Nikki LaCroce

Nikki LaCroce was raised in the suburbs of Philadelphia and moved to the West Coast in 2017. In early 2021 she left a decade-long abusive relationship while simultaneously facing the unexpected loss of her mother amid the pandemic. She hosts the podcast "Can I Just Say?"

Listen to her show wherever you get podcasts, visit canijustsaypodcast.com, or follow her on social media at Nikki LaCroce.

Favorite quotes "You're asking for the bare minimum and you're not even getting that." —a friend's words to Nikki LaCroce, the turning-point moment she describes "Gratitude and anxiety can exist at the same time." —Nikki LaCroce's therapist, as relayed by Nikki "The hardest part about leaving a narcissistic abusive relationship with somebody is regaining your sense of self." —Nikki LaCroce's therapist, as relayed by Nikki Resources mentioned

• "Can I Just Say?": Nikki's podcast, available wherever you listen to podcasts
• CanIJustSayPodcast.com: Nikki's website

Related episodes

For more on narcissistic abuse and rebuilding after it, try:

• Trauma Impact: From Codependency to Self-Mastery: Amanda Kate's parallel story of surviving chronic narcissistic abuse and reclaiming her sense of self.
• Surviving Gaslighters and Manipulators: more on the gaslighting patterns Nikki describes living through with a covert narcissist.

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

Remember "stop, drop, and roll," the thing they drilled into us in elementary school for if your clothes caught fire? My guest today has the equivalent for parenting anxiety, and honestly, we all need it, because if you're a parent right now you are being bombarded by shoulds. You should breastfeed at all costs. You should never breastfeed past a certain age. You should get your kid into the "right" preschool or you've ruined their life before they can talk. Dr. Alison Escalante calls this the ShouldStorm, and she should know: she was getting emails on her brand-new iPhone telling her that her newborn would have a lower IQ if she didn't breastfeed, "even though he had a severe medical condition that led him to have colitis and eight different protein allergies and bleeding." She kept trying anyway, until she started fainting.

Dr. Escalante is a pediatrician and the author of "Sigh, See, Start: How to Be the Parent Your Child Needs in a World That Won't Stop Pushing." She's also a TEDx speaker on a mission to ease the epidemic of anxiety that's convinced parents they're always failing. Her three-step method is built like stop, drop, and roll for your nervous system: sigh (a real, physiological reset for your fight-or-flight response), see (a few seconds of mindful noticing, not an hour of meditation you don't have time for), and start (running your own small experiment instead of waiting to get it perfect).

We get into how social media supercharges the ShouldStorm without creating it, why "sometimes you start nothing" is legitimate parenting advice, and why Dr. Escalante says the goal was never perfection, it's confidence in your own ability to figure it out.

In this episode

• What the ShouldStorm is, and why it starts as soon as you get pregnant and never really lets up
• Why sighing (the long, slow out-breath, not the deep inhale) is the fastest way to pull your brain out of fight-or-flight
• How a few seconds of mindful "seeing" can be as effective as an hour of meditation you don't have time for anyway
• Why "start with nothing" is sometimes the right call, and when it's not
• How Sigh, See, Start reframes mistakes as data instead of a crisis, for you and for your kids
• Why your kids learn resilience by watching you recover from a should, not by watching you get it right the first time

Timestamps

• (00:03) Welcome and guest intro: meet pediatrician and author Dr. Alison Escalante
• (03:37) Why Dr. Escalante created the Sigh, See, Start method in the exam room
• (05:55) The role social media plays in supercharging the ShouldStorm
• (07:06) The breastfeeding ShouldStorm: fainting from a restrictive diet to chase a debunked IQ claim
• (14:01) Sigh: the one out-breath that tells your nervous system you're safe
• (16:49) Why presence, not perfection, is what kids actually want from a parent
• (17:20) See: your micro-moment of mindfulness
• (21:09) The autonomic nervous system responses behind should-driven overwhelm
• (22:40) Using Sigh, See, Start as a planning tool, even hiding in a bathroom to do it
• (25:12) Start: running your own scientific experiment instead of waiting to get it perfect
• (29:45) Helicopter parenting, gentle parenting, and where Sigh, See, Start actually differs
• (31:11) Modeling mistakes for your kids: how the should storm gets passed down

About Dr. Alison Escalante

Dr. Alison Escalante is a pediatrician, TEDx speaker, and author of "Sigh, See, Start: How to Be the Parent Your Child Needs in a World That Won't Stop Pushing." She created the Sigh, See, Start method after years of watching parents in her practice buckle under contradictory, anxiety-driven parenting advice, what she calls the ShouldStorm.

Learn more at SighSeeStart.com, and find her book, "Sigh, See, Start," at this link.

Favorite quotes "What do you do if your emotions are on fire from the should storm? You sigh, see, and start." —Dr. Alison Escalante "Even a few seconds of mindfulness, so these micro moments of mindfulness, are incredibly powerful, and can be as effective as a full hour of meditating." —Dr. Alison Escalante "I think telling people to accept doesn't help. We need action steps that teach us how that works." —Dr. Alison Escalante Resources mentioned

• SighSeeStart.com: Dr. Escalante's website, home to the Sigh, See, Start method and additional resources for parents
• "Sigh, See, Start" by Dr. Alison Escalante: her book on the three-step method discussed throughout the episode

Related episodes

If this hit home, these episodes go well with it:

• Yoga and Science: Meditation In The Real World: Ann Swanson's take on quick, real-world mindfulness practices that echo Dr. Escalante's "see" step.
• My Anxiety Is Eating Me Alive!: more on the anxiety spiral the ShouldStorm feeds, and how to interrupt it.

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

"Good girls don't ask questions. Good girls don't get angry. Good girls don't speak up. Good girls don't shout." My guest today rattled off that list like she'd memorized it in the womb, because she basically had. On paper, Amanda Kate had checked every box: good grades, the right marriage, two kids, a nice house. Behind closed doors, she says, "I was sick, I was depressed, I was scared, I was utterly unfulfilled." That gap, the balance sheet that looked perfect and the reality that didn't, is where codependency and the fawn trauma response come from, and it's exactly what we dig into today.

Amanda Kate is a self-mastery facilitator who survived chronic narcissistic abuse and the chronic fatigue that came from years of unrelenting emotional, mental, and psychological abuse. She walked the path of depression to the point of being on her floor screaming for God to take her home. Now she flips the current paradigm of what it truly means to master yourself, and she's got the receipts: kinesiology's five F's (fight, flight, freeze, fawn, and fragmentation), why "being an empath" is often a trauma response in disguise, and why we blame people for their reaction to abuse instead of the abuse itself.

We also get into the heroine's journey, why perfectionism and people-pleasing are really the same coin, and how to hold two things as true at once: that your parents loved you and that they also terrified you. If any of that sounds familiar, this conversation is for you.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgCtxxBkpzg

In this episode

• Why "good girl" conditioning teaches us to blame our reaction instead of the action that caused it
• The real difference between fight, flight, freeze, fawn, and fragmentation, and why most empaths are actually running a trauma response
• Why perfectionism and people-pleasing are two roads to the same destination: keeping everyone else happy so you feel safe
• How to hold two true things at once: your parents loved you, and they also scared you
• What the heroine's journey is, how it differs from the hero's journey, and why midlife tends to trigger it
• Why "reverse engineering" overwhelm and burnout back to their root belief stops the cycle before it starts

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet self-mastery facilitator Amanda Kate
• (01:46) The "perfect life on paper" that was falling apart behind closed doors
• (03:31) "Good girls don't": the childhood conditioning that sets up a lifetime of fawning
• (04:05) Blaming the reaction instead of the action that caused it
• (08:41) The four F's, and the fourth one nobody talks about: fawn
• (09:35) Why being an empath is often a trauma response, not a superpower, until you heal it
• (13:02) Kinesiology's five F's: fight, flight, freeze, fawn, and fragmentation
• (16:45) The abuse "rubber band": why we run back to the person who scares us
• (17:59) Living with a "full-blown narcissist," and the unpredictability that keeps you hooked
• (20:59) Perfectionism as an unobtainable, exhausting bargain with abuse
• (21:36) Flipping the paradigm: why we're taught to police the reaction, not the action
• (31:29) The heroine's journey versus the hero's journey

About Amanda Kate

Amanda Kate is a self-mastery facilitator who survived chronic narcissistic abuse and the chronic fatigue that followed years of emotional, mental, and psychological abuse and toxic relationship cycles. She describes herself as a recovering people pleaser and self-flagellator, walking a path that straddles the divine and messy.

Learn more at AmandaKate.com.au.

Favorite quotes "When somebody does an action and you have a reaction to said action, that's actually normal human behavior. We are wired to have reactions." —Amanda Kate "Perfectionism is unobtainable. It is impossible. There's not many things in this world that are impossible, but perfectionism is." —Amanda Kate "My parents deeply loved me and they deeply put the fear of God in me." —Amanda Kate Resources mentioned

• Kinesiology's five F's: fight, flight, freeze, fawn, and fragmentation, the framework Amanda uses to describe trauma responses
• The heroine's journey (as distinct from the hero's journey), including the myth of the goddess Inanna's descent to the underworld
• Brené Brown's "please, perform, and perfect" framing, referenced by Dana during the conversation

Related episodes

Pair this one with:

• Healing From Narcissistic Abuse: Nikki LaCroce's account of leaving a decade-long relationship with a covert narcissist, a natural next listen after Amanda's episode.
• The Hidden Tactics Narcissists Use to Control You: more on the manipulation patterns Amanda describes living through.

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

There's a corner of my unfinished basement with cinder block walls that has heard some things. Years ago you'd have found me down there hurling pieces of hardwood at them, hollering, because I was so angry and so scared I wanted to bolt on the whole thing. My husband and son stayed upstairs, eyes the size of sausages, whisper-agreeing not to come check on me. Dramatic? Extremely. But I'd made myself one promise through all of it: I wouldn't quit.

That's the kind of entrepreneur boundaries conversation I don't usually get to have on Phoenix in Flame, which is exactly why I wanted Eric McHugh on the show. Eric is a 30-year-old Web3 entrepreneur, president of ShopX, an ecommerce platform that helps Web2 brands move into Web3, and runs Dataing, an AI-powered matchmaking company. He told me flat out: "I've always been good at saying no." No riot, no confrontation, just a clear boundary and a "no, thank you." We get into how he built that muscle, what a decade of failed startup ideas taught him about resilience, and why he thinks "only you know what's best for you."

We also go somewhere I never expected: Eric's 10 days of total silence on a Vipassana meditation retreat, no phone, no talking, no writing, just scanning his own body for stored trauma from the time he was four or five years old. He walks through what that actually does to a person, plus his simple daily practice (a "thought diet," a gratitude journal) for staying grounded while you're failing your way toward whatever works.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_njI50gvQM

In this episode

• Why "no, thank you" is a complete sentence: how Eric sets boundaries with clients and dates without ever getting confrontational
• How to reframe failure in a startup: "nine things that don't work" gets you closer to the one thing that does
• Why boundaries function as a self-filtration system for who stays in your life and who doesn't
• What 10 days of total silence on a Vipassana meditation retreat actually does to your nervous system and your stored trauma
• The "thought diet": treating what you consume on social media with the same scrutiny you'd give your actual diet
• A simple gratitude-journal habit for staying grounded while you fail your way toward what works

Timestamps

• (01:09) Welcome and guest intro: meet Eric McHugh, 30-year-old Web3 entrepreneur
• (02:45) Web1 vs. Web2 vs. Web3, and what owning an NFT actually means
• (05:33) Failing constantly in the startup world, and why every failure gets you closer to what works
• (09:40) Dana's basement story: throwing wood at a cinder block wall while keeping her promise not to quit
• (11:14) Turning anger into training instead of throwing things
• (14:28) "Only you know what's best for you": standing firm on your own boundaries
• (16:56) What Eric does when someone disrespects a boundary he's set
• (19:06) Why setting a boundary rarely has to be confrontational
• (20:42) Setting a hard no with corporate clients as a bankruptcy consultant
• (22:14) The 10-day silent Vipassana meditation retreat, and what "extracting stored trauma" really means
• (28:08) The "thought diet": curating what you let into your mind
• (30:01) Gratitude journaling and Eric's take on frequency and energy

About Eric McHugh

Eric McHugh is a 30-year-old Web3 entrepreneur and president of ShopX, a platform that helps Web2 brands enter the Web3 space. His other company is Dataing, which he describes as "the first ever AI-powered matchmaker." Before entrepreneurship, he worked as a consultant for companies undergoing bankruptcy.

Find him at ShopX or Dataing, and connect with him on Instagram, LinkedIn, or Twitter/X.

Favorite quotes "Only you know what's best for you." —Eric McHugh "You try a bunch of things, they fail, but that'll eventually lead to the right thing that you wouldn't find if you didn't fail so much." —Eric McHugh "It's really just about keep going." —Eric McHugh Resources mentioned

• ShopX.co: Eric's Web3 ecommerce platform
• Dataing.io: Eric's AI-powered matchmaking company
• The 10-day Vipassana meditation retreat Eric describes: the silent meditation method he says traces back to the Buddha
• Eric McHugh on Instagram
• Eric McHugh on LinkedIn

Related episodes

If boundaries-in-business is your thing, keep going with these:

• Why Successful Entrepreneurs Set Boundaries: a whole episode built around the exact theme Eric lives out here, why the entrepreneurs who last are the ones who protect their time.
• Mindset and Success: an Interview with Kyle Gillette: another founder's take on the inner work behind outer success, a good pairing with Eric's thought-diet philosophy.

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz