In 2019, Robert Hunt and his wife Cathy sat down and did the math they'd been avoiding: $90,000 in debt, not counting the house or the cars. They'd spent years angry at God, angry at the economy, angry at their clients, asking why the blessings weren't coming. Robert says God's answer, as he heard it, was blunt: "I gave you so much money. What'd you do with it all?" So they sold the house, paid off every dollar, and moved into a rental. They were debt-free the week COVID shut down the world. Robert calls that the moment he stopped being responsible and started being accountable, and he says most of us have no idea there's a difference.

Robert is known as "The Accountability Guy," a business owner in the Dallas-Fort Worth area who's run CEO peer groups since 2013 and co-authored the book Nobody Cares Until You Do. We get into why owning your life isn't the same thing as being responsible for it (responsible is showing up to therapy, accountable is doing the work after), why "I can't" is almost always "I won't" wearing a disguise, and the blunt, almost funny gut-check his wife's dad taught her: if it's 10:30 in the morning and you've already run into three jerks today, you're the common denominator, not them.

We also talk about the shame that keeps people blame-shifting instead of owning their part, and why Robert believes you were born a 10 and you'll die a 10, no matter how badly you're currently playing the role in front of you.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aiZr97B7lM

In this episode

• The real difference between being responsible (doing something) and being accountable (owning it and finishing the thing), and why most of us stop at the first one
• How Robert and his wife paid off $90,000 in debt by selling their house, and the peace that showed up once the anxiety of "if I lose one client, I'm screwed" was gone
• Why "I can't" almost always means "I won't," and the reframe that turns excuses into actual choices
• The free satisfaction assessment Robert uses to help clients see, in writing, exactly where they're playing victim instead of owning it
• Why shame keeps people blame-shifting, and Robert's identity-versus-role fix ("you were born a 10 and you'll die a 10")
• How Robert's business doubled, then doubled again, in the two years after he and his wife got honest about their own accountability

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and intro: meet "The Accountability Guy," Robert Hunt
• (01:25) Eleven years running CEO peer groups, and the 2019 reckoning with $90,000 in debt
• (03:26) Why people cling to the victim role, and the difference between responsible and accountable
• (08:47) The frog-in-boiling-water problem: why denial hits everyone around you harder than it hits you
• (10:08) "If it's 10:30 and you've run into three jerks, it's not them": his wife's dad's gut-check
• (18:36) Identity versus role: why you were born a 10 and you'll die a 10
• (22:04) The free satisfaction assessment: writing down what you don't like and asking why
• (23:52) "Acknowledge, embrace the suck, find a solution, make it happen": the book's four-step process
• (23:52) Selling the house, paying off the debt, and the peace that arrived once the weight was gone
• (30:21) Where to find Robert: his coaching practice, the book, and his on-air offer to mail a free copy to listeners who reach out

About Robert Hunt

Robert Hunt, known as "The Accountability Guy," is a business owner in the Dallas-Fort Worth area who has run executive CEO peer groups since 2013. He is the co-author of Nobody Cares Until You Do, written with his wife Cathy after they paid off $90,000 in debt and rebuilt their marriage, finances, and health around the practice of true accountability.

Learn more about his coaching and CEO groups at REFDallas.com, take the free satisfaction assessment or learn about the book at NobodyCaresBook.com, or fill out the contact form at NobodyCaresPod.com with the code word PHOENIX for a free copy of the book, an offer Robert made on the show to listeners who reach out that way.

Favorite quotes "Nobody cares if we're broke and unhappy in our marriage and frustrated with our finances and our business until we care enough to do something about it." —Robert Hunt "Responsible is doing something. Accountable is owning it and doing the thing." —Robert Hunt "You were born a 10 and you will die a 10. ...The role that you play, you may suck as an employee, you may struggle as a spouse, you may struggle as a parent. That's the role you play. But no role will ever be any higher than the identity you give yourself as a human." —Robert Hunt Resources mentioned

• Nobody Cares Until You Do by Robert Hunt
• NobodyCaresBook.com: home to the free satisfaction assessment mentioned in the episode
• REFDallas.com: Robert's CEO peer groups and executive coaching practice
• NobodyCaresPod.com: use code word PHOENIX for a free copy of the book, per Robert's on-air offer

Related episodes

• Are You Avoiding Failure or Guaranteeing It?: more on the self-sabotage and excuse-making Robert calls out in this episode.
• How to Reclaim Your Power from Shame: a deeper dive into the shame that keeps people blame-shifting instead of owning their part.
• The Courageous Life: Crafting Your Own Terms: Marni Battista's story of taking ownership of a life that no longer fit, a strong companion to Robert's message on accountability.

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

Winnie Rodgers describes a specific, strange feeling: standing outside her own body, looking down at herself, thinking "nothing is wrong here" while everything in her actually knew something was wrong. Intellectually, on paper, her life checked every box. Her real estate business was thriving. But she'd built all her structure, her habits, her boundaries, for her work life, and none of it for her personal life. So when her personal life went sideways, she had nothing to catch her, and no practice noticing her own intuition telling her so.

Winnie is a top real estate agent in Charleston, South Carolina, and a marketing strategist with over two decades of experience who now teaches college classes on values and branding. We talk about what it actually looks like to trust your intuition instead of overriding it with your intellect, and the specific, real-world version of that problem for women in sales: the nights out, the drinks, the "cool girl" persona that keeps the deal alive, and how to say no to an inappropriate advance from someone with power over your business without burning the bridge. Winnie doesn't offer platitudes here. She tells you exactly what she says now, word for word, when someone crosses a line.

We also get into the morning ritual that keeps her grounded through a job that requires her to be "on" and shiny for everyone else, and why the industry's brutal first-year attrition rate has less to do with talent than with whether you've done the work to know yourself.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kXNscWnQPc

In this episode

• Why Winnie's business stayed rock-solid while her personal life fell apart, and what that revealed about where she had (and hadn't) built healthy boundaries
• The exact, no-excuse way Winnie now says no to a man crossing a line, without giving a reason that becomes ammunition ("I'm not interested in having dinner with you," full stop)
• Why she wishes she'd built a strong circle of women around her sooner, ones who'd check her, not just men she trusted who couldn't
• How Winnie learned to trust her intuition again after years of overriding her body's signals with "intellectually, nothing is wrong"
• Her actual morning ritual (reading in bed, a green drink, breathing, sage) for showing up "on" all day without losing herself
• Why a slow month in real estate isn't a crisis if you've learned to trust the cycle, and what to do with that downtime instead of panicking

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and intro: meet real estate expert and marketing strategist Winnie Rodgers
• (05:12) Standing outside her own body: what it felt like to ignore her intuition
• (08:19) Why her business stayed steady while her personal life spun out
• (11:48) Real estate's after-hours culture, and the "shiny cool girl" pressure to never leave the table
• (15:49) The advice for women who don't want to burn a bridge but don't want to cross a line either
• (22:53) The exact words Winnie uses now to say no, without an excuse to argue with
• (26:53) What has helped Winnie navigate the instability of entrepreneurship and sales
• (35:18) Winnie's grounding morning ritual: reading, a green drink, breath, and sage
• (40:10) Where to find Winnie: Instagram and her teaching website

About Winnie Rodgers

Winnie Rodgers is a dynamic real estate expert and marketing strategist with over two decades of experience in digital and print marketing, and a top real estate agent in Charleston, South Carolina. She also teaches classes built around values and branding.

Connect with her on Instagram, or learn more about her teaching at Winnie's website.

Favorite quotes "I'm not interested in having dinner with you. [...] In the past, I would have given a reason, I would have given an excuse, I would have softened it so that it didn't hurt his feelings." —Winnie Rodgers "I felt like I knew my business better than I knew myself at that time." —Winnie Rodgers "It isn't necessarily that you're not good at it. It is that there's something that is challenging or pushing against one of your boundaries or one of your values, and you just haven't identified it yet." —Winnie Rodgers Resources mentioned

• Winnie Rodgers on Instagram: @winnieandcompany
• Winnie's website: home to her teaching on values and branding

Related episodes

• Curiosity: The Bridge to Connection: Mette Reebirk on questioning the mind's stories, a great companion piece to Winnie's case for trusting the body's signals instead.
• How to Trust Your Intuition After Trauma: more on learning to hear and trust your own intuition again.
• Boundaries - Why Can't I Set Them?: Dana's own deep dive into what actually gets in the way of setting the boundary you know you need.

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

Close your eyes for a second. Go ahead, really do it. Mette Reebirk asked me to try this live on the show, and within a breath there was a voice in my head going, "this is weird, I hope this doesn't last too long." Then a second voice: "come on, be positive, she has a plan." Then Mette asks the real question: who's the one watching those two voices argue? That's the whole episode in miniature. We have around 60,000 thoughts a day, she says, coming and going like clouds, and you do not have a single feeling, not anxiety, not shame, not anger, that wasn't created by a thought you believed to be true for a moment.

Mette is an author and executive coach who's spent over two decades helping experienced leaders question their thoughts and free themselves from anxiety. Seven years ago, after decades in senior leadership (president of an investment-attraction organization, international director at a university, and director of corporate relations at another), she got fired, not for the first time in her career, and started her own consultancy from scratch, not entirely sure what she had to offer once the company logo was gone. What she found, working with laid-off executives who "on paper had everything" and still felt hollow, became the foundation for the thought-questioning work she teaches today.

We get into why you're not actually meeting the person in front of you, you're meeting your own story about them, how that single insight can defuse a bad boss, a messy teenager's room, or a marriage fight, and why the only thing you ever really lose when you let go of a false belief is the story itself.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TjlwFusmYU

In this episode

• Why you don't have a feeling or emotion that wasn't created by a thought, and how to catch the thought before it becomes a stress spiral
• The "who's watching the two voices" trick for noticing your own mental chatter instead of getting swept up in it
• Why meeting someone else is really meeting your own story about them, and how that reframes conflict with a difficult boss, spouse, or teenager
• How Mette got fired, not for the first time, and had to rebuild her entire sense of self once the corporate brand behind her name was gone
• Why letting go of blame doesn't mean tolerating bad leadership, it means dealing with one thing (the bad leader) instead of a whole story about them
• A simple body-based check ("can I be 100% sure that's true?") for questioning a belief the moment you feel it land in your stomach or your chest

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and intro: meet author and executive coach Mette Reebirk
• (01:53) Two decades in senior leadership, then getting fired, not for the first time
• (02:18) Starting a consultancy from scratch and traveling to China not knowing what she had to offer
• (04:28) What Mette saw headhunting laid-off executives: success on paper, insecurity underneath
• (08:36) The two-voices exercise: noticing the watcher behind your own thoughts
• (09:48) Why every feeling you have was created by a thought you believed
• (13:03) Why letting go of an old story can feel like losing the stone in your shoe
• (14:03) "You need to look behind": what keeps people blaming a bad boss instead of dealing with one
• (19:48) Meeting the story instead of the person, and what that means for diversity and difference
• (24:41) The clothes-on-the-floor experiment: what changed once she stopped calling it "disrespectful"
• (27:50) The body check: noticing a racing heart or a stomach knot as your cue to question a belief
• (34:12) Where to find Mette: her book and LinkedIn

About Mette Reebirk

Mette Reebirk is an author and executive coach based in Copenhagen, Denmark, who has spent more than two decades helping experienced leaders question their thoughts and free themselves from anxiety. Before starting her own consultancy, she held senior leadership roles including president of an organization set up to attract investment to Copenhagen, international director at a university, and director of corporate relations at another. She has a new book on questioning the thoughts we believe to be true.

Connect with her on LinkedIn.

Favorite quotes "You do not have a feeling or an emotion that has not been created by a thought. So whenever you feel anxious, afraid, angry, shameful, it's created by a thought you, in a very short moment, innocently believed to be true." —Mette Reebirk "When we meet the other person, we don't really meet the other person. We meet the story, our own story about the other person. That means that actually we meet ourself." —Mette Reebirk "The only thing that we can lose is a story. The only thing we can lose is the story." —Mette Reebirk Resources mentioned

• Mette Reebirk's new book on questioning our thoughts to find freedom from anxiety (exact title not stated clearly on air; see reviewer notes)
• Mette Reebirk on LinkedIn

Related episodes

• The Power of Intuition in Personal Growth: Winnie Rodgers on listening to the body instead of the mind, a natural companion piece to Mette's work on questioning the mind's stories.
• "Sigh, See, Start": The ShouldStorm Antidote: another framework for catching and reframing the automatic thoughts that drive our stress.
• Your Logical vs. Subconscious Mind: Who's Really in Control?: more on the machinery behind the thoughts Mette teaches us to question.

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

In this solo episode, Dana Skaggs explores the complexities of setting and defending personal boundaries. She discusses the importance of understanding one's own emotional landscape, the fear of rejection, and the impact of past wounds on current behavior.

Dana emphasizes the need for self-awareness and the role of support systems in navigating these challenges.

Dana's Linked In Page

Dana's website

Marni Battista was skiing a double black diamond in new boots, feeling badass, when she went flying through the air and landed on her sacrum. Seven fractures. Twelve weeks flat on her back, unable to work, read, knit, or even sit up, using an old-lady reaching claw because she couldn't move without pain. The doctors kept saying she should be better by now. She wasn't. Finally a guide told her something that stopped her cold: you broke your foundation because you built your whole life on doing and producing, and disconnected the emotional part of yourself. It was time to rebuild.

Marni is an entrepreneur, author, and transformational coach whose new book, Your Radical Living Challenge: Seven Questions for a Meaningful Life, comes out February 5. Before the injury, she'd built a nearly $2-million-a-year dating coaching business, appeared in the LA Times and the New Yorker, and been on Dr. Phil, Ryan Seacrest, and Home & Family TV, all while quietly wondering how much longer she could keep pushing. We talk about how to live life on your own terms instead of the version everyone else expects of you, why "comparison despair" wrecks so many of us (especially after 18 months off social media forced her to notice it), and how she finally answered her own website's question: if you could create your whole life any way you wanted it, what would it look like?

We also get into the harder, practical side of reinvention: how women specifically build the financial clarity to back up a courageous decision, and why the "essential problem" is almost never the problem you think it is.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqjpryF-HHc

In this episode

• Why breaking her sacrum in seven places was, in Marni's words, "the universe saying it's time to rebuild," and what she did with that forced 12 weeks of stillness
• How to identify the "essential problem" hiding underneath the problem you think you have (it's rarely your marriage, your money, or your business)
• Why comparison despair spikes on social media, and what an 18-month fast from it taught Marni about which comparisons actually matter
• The financial clarity work Marni does with clients before any conversation about reinventing a life or a career, because "you can't create emotional safety without clarity"
• Why chasing dating "strategy" without self-worth is a waste of every app and every strategy in the world, and what dating with dignity looks like instead
• How Marni's seven spiritual questions became the framework for choosing a life beyond the 10%-variation version most of us settle for in midlife

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and intro: meet entrepreneur, author, and coach Marni Battista
• (03:35) Building a nearly $2M dating-coaching business, and the pace that couldn't last
• (07:01) The double black diamond, the crash, and seven fractures in her sacrum
• (08:14) Twelve weeks flat on her back with a claw grabber, at the height of COVID
• (08:34) "You have broken your foundation": the guide's diagnosis that changed everything
• (12:32) The butterfly at her new desk, and the question: if I had nine more years, is this what I'd be doing?
• (13:32) Finding the "essential problem" underneath the problem you think you have
• (17:03) The financial-security gap that keeps women from making courageous decisions
• (22:51) Comparison despair, an 18-month social media fast, and what her dying father taught her about what actually matters
• (26:48) Dating with Dignity: why strategy without self-worth is worthless
• (32:02) Where to find Marni: her book and both her websites

About Marni Battista

Marni Battista is an entrepreneur, author, transformational coach, and host of the Straight to the Point podcast. She's appeared in the LA Times and the New Yorker, and on Dr. Phil, Ryan Seacrest, and Home & Family TV. Her new book, Your Radical Living Challenge: Seven Questions for a Meaningful Life, is out February 5. She's also the founder of Dating with Dignity, a dating and relationship coaching practice built on self-love, self-confidence, and self-worth.

Learn more at MarniBattista.com, where you'll find her book, the Dating with Dignity program, and her Radical Living work. She also mentions an Institute for Living Courageously site, still in development at the time of taping; no working URL for it was confirmed on air.

Favorite quotes "You have broken your sacrum because that is the foundation, and you have built your foundation of your life on doing and producing, and you have completely disconnected the emotional part of yourself. This is the universe saying it's time to rebuild." —the guide Marni consulted, as recounted by Marni Battista "I had made my safety and security, my home, completely external. And the journey I then needed to go on was: how do I create home inside of myself, so that no matter where I go, no matter what the circumstances, no matter what's happening, I feel safe and I know that I am who I am and that I'm okay." —Marni Battista "There was literally nothing out there for a map or a guide of how do you actually recreate, redesign, rewrite your next chapter so that you're still living life in a way that is meaningful." —Marni Battista Resources mentioned

• Your Radical Living Challenge: Seven Questions for a Meaningful Life by Marni Battista, out February 5
• MarniBattista.com: Marni's website, home to her book, Dating with Dignity, and her coaching work
• Dating with Dignity: Marni's dating and relationship coaching practice, discussed throughout the episode

Related episodes

• Vision and Heart: One Entrepreneur's Journey: Jackson Calame's story of rebuilding an entrepreneurial life around boundaries, a natural companion to Marni's rebuild after her injury.
• Reclaiming Health and Embracing the Second Act: another midlife reinvention story, this one centered on health and identity after a major life reset.
• Signs of a Mismatched Career and How to Make a Change: more on recognizing when your current life no longer fits, and what to do about it.

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

Picture a nine-year-old boy in rural Uruguay, walking up to a 21-year-old missionary and asking for bread. Jackson Calame didn't have any on him. It was 9:30 at night, they were rushing home, and he had to send the boy away hungry. The kid ducked his head and walked around him without a word. Jackson felt filthy, he says, comparing his own clean shirt and nice shoes to everything that boy didn't have. That night he decided he'd come back someday and open a little computer rental shop to help the town build an economy. Instead, he says, he felt his face turn to the right and heard a voice tell him to go home, use his education, and help towns like that one for the rest of his life. That's the moment that built the entrepreneur, and the boundaries lesson, at the center of this episode.

Jackson is a visionary-entrepreneur coach: founder of First Class Business, founder of the VisionPros Live podcast, and a 20% stakeholder in e-rational marketing, where he built out the client fulfillment process while the agency became one of Canada's 50 fastest-growing startups. He's also, by his own telling, twice divorced, a single father of four, and someone who has spent real time on the floor in a fetal position when entrepreneurship got to be too much. We talk about why setting boundaries as an entrepreneur isn't optional if you want to protect the vision you're building, why treating people (including the virtual assistants so many businesses treat as disposable) with dignity is both a moral stand and good business, and what to do with the doubting voices, yours and everyone else's, that show up the second you try to build something that matters.

By the end, Jackson makes the case that a midlife identity crisis or two isn't proof you took a wrong turn. Sometimes it's just the burning that comes before the rebuild.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD20mzHImVI

In this episode

• Why setting boundaries as an entrepreneur is the only way to protect a big vision from burning you out, starting with the boundary Jackson set at age three
• The mission-trip moment in Uruguay that redirected Jackson from chasing his own comfort to building four ventures meant to help other people build theirs
• Why treating remote and international workers with dignity (not what Jackson calls "virtual abuse") is both a moral stand and a competitive edge
• How to answer the "why bother, it's already been done" voice with Dana's cup-of-water-in-the-ocean reframe
• What it took for Jackson to turn crushing self-doubt, and a mom who kept trying to pull him back into "the safety net of corporate America," into fuel instead of an exit ramp
• The "empty track" trick for showing up as your best self when literally nobody is watching

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and intro: meet visionary entrepreneur Jackson Calame
• (04:51) BYU, "a 4.0 in dating, a 0.33 in everything else," and losing his way
• (06:55) The mission trip to Uruguay: the boy who asked for bread
• (08:30) The voice that sent Jackson home to study business
• (11:28) Treating overseas virtual assistants with dignity, not "virtual abuse"
• (14:16) Setting his first boundary at age three, and the fetal-position moment during his first marriage
• (20:50) Detractors, self-doubt, and what to do when the people who love you fear for your dream
• (29:19) The "second in state" trumpet solo and the toxic chase to be the best
• (30:52) Dana's cup-of-water-in-the-ocean answer to "why even try"
• (33:50) The empty track and becoming your own LeBron James
• (36:24) Where to find Jackson: VisionPros Live and First Class Business

About Jackson Calame

H. Jackson Calame is a visionary-entrepreneur coach who teaches business owners how to build sustainable revenue and become the trusted leader in their market, at a time when, as Dana notes, 96% of businesses fail within their first ten years. He's the founder of First Class Business and of the VisionPros Live podcast, and a 20% stakeholder in e-rational marketing, where he was head of account management building out the client fulfillment journey as the agency became one of Canada's 50 fastest-growing startups. He studied Latin American studies at Brigham Young University and served a two-year mission in Uruguay, where he learned Spanish. He's a single father of four.

Learn more at First Class Business, or be a guest on his show at VisionPros Live.

Favorite quotes "I heard a voice that said, Jackson, why don't you go home? Take advantage of your education for once. Learn about business and help as many towns like this as you possibly can." —Jackson Calame "We're not meant to be coddled. We're not meant to stay in the nest. We're meant to fly, and we have to have the hard experiences." —Jackson Calame "If I lock in to wanting to be my best and I start to do this in everything that I do in life, that's the only way I'll ever really tap into my full potential." —Jackson Calame Resources mentioned

• VisionPros Live: Jackson's podcast, where entrepreneurs and founders come on to share their vision (there's a "be our guest" button on the site)
• First Class Business: Jackson's coaching program for entrepreneurs, built around the idea that "we don't have an easy button for business"
• The E-Myth by Michael Gerber: the book Jackson recommends first to any entrepreneur underestimating how hard the job really is
• A TED Talk on addiction and belonging that Jackson credits with reframing how he thinks about connection and community (title and speaker not stated on air)

Related episodes

• The Courageous Life: Crafting Your Own Terms: Marni Battista's story of rebuilding her life and business from scratch after a devastating injury, another entrepreneur who had to choose herself before she could choose her next chapter.
• Entrepreneurial Success: Habits of a Maverick: more on the daily habits and mindset that separate entrepreneurs who make it from the 96% who don't.
• Stop Winging It: A Leader's Guide to Resilience: a natural next listen on building the resilience to keep leading through the doubt, yours and everyone else's.

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

Ever stood on a chair in your office just to see out the window, and realized the view looked suspiciously like prison bars? That was me, years ago, in a job I could do but loathed. If you keep telling yourself the next promotion, the next raise, the next big win will finally make you happy (spoiler: it moves), you may be staring at the signs of a mismatched career.

My guest Sarah JanTausch knows this road personally. She rose fast in a government career, built her whole life around one value (achievement) and rode it straight into burnout while looking wildly successful from the outside. Now, as founder of SRJ Coaching and Consulting and creator of the Value-Based Career Method, she helps people figure out what they actually value before they leap into the next wrong job.

We compare our "wrong major, wrong job" battle scars and map out how to tell whether you're mismatched or just tired, why a small experiment beats a blind leap of faith, and what you loved before age 10 that's still trying to tell you something.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjiLN-1WLKo

In this episode

• How to recognize the signs of a mismatched career — the stress, exhaustion, and "I just need a break" feeling that mean something deeper is off
• Why building your whole life around one value (like achievement) leads straight to burnout, even when you look successful from the outside
• A simple values card sort exercise you can use to identify your true top five values
• Why running a small, low-stakes experiment beats a blind leap when you're exploring a new direction
• How healthy boundaries protect you from burning out on work you actually love, not just work you hate
• The "what did you love before age 10" exercise for uncovering clues to your ideal career path

Timestamps

• (00:41) Meet Sarah JanTausch, founder of SRJ Coaching and Consulting and creator of the Value-Based Career Method
• (01:13) Sarah's fast rise in a government career — and believing the next promotion would finally make her happy
• (02:37) Building her whole life around one value, achievement, and how that led to burnout
• (04:59) What a career mismatch actually feels like: stress, exhaustion, and wanting to "run away"
• (07:51) Dana's own mismatch story — standing on a chair to look out a "prison" window during a testing job
• (11:12) The values card sort exercise Sarah uses to help clients find their true top five values
• (14:50) Why running a small experiment beats a blind leap of faith
• (16:28) How boundaries kept Sarah from burning out on a business she loves
• (18:24) Dana's physical therapy detour — and the lesson of watching the clock
• (20:36) Balancing logical facts with gut-level "subjective judgment" when evaluating a job
• (25:35) The real signs it's time for a career change
• (28:20) The "what did you love before age 10" exercise for finding career clues
• (31:15) Where to find Sarah and her free monthly events

About Sarah JanTausch

Sarah JanTausch is the founder of SRJ Coaching and Consulting and creator of the Value-Based Career Method, which helps professionals unlock the hidden job market and ditch burnout by building a career move rooted in core values, ideal work style, and goals. Connect with her at valuesbasedcareers.com, where she hosts free monthly events, or find her on LinkedIn.

Pull quotes "When we have all these aching feelings, it usually means we're not living out the values that we truly have inside of us." — Sarah JanTausch "I remember distinctly feeling like I was in prison. Like I was looking through the bars of a prison." — Dana Skaggs Resources mentioned

• Sarah JanTausch's website — valuesbasedcareers.com (free monthly events on values-based career change)
• A values card sort exercise, which Sarah uses with clients to identify their top five values
• The Pathway Planner assessment from Wiley
• Other assessments Sarah mentioned using over the years: DISC, Myers-Briggs, and StrengthsFinder

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My guest Amita Sharma was sitting in a meeting when it hit: a hot flash, out of nowhere, with no idea why. She didn't even know the word "perimenopausal" yet. "Nobody tells you," she says. "At least in my case, nobody told me or prepared me." If you've ever sat through a meeting wondering what on earth is happening to your body and whether you're allowed to say so out loud, this episode on navigating perimenopause at work is for you.

Amita is the co-founder of NourishDoc, a holistic wellness platform built for women moving through perimenopause and beyond. She built it after years of being, in her words, "miserable" in corporate roles while dealing with irregular periods, anxiety that bordered on depression, and a medical system that ran her bloodwork, found nothing wrong, and sent her home still feeling like something was off. We talk about why so many women downshift their careers rather than name what's happening to them, and what she's learned from talking to thousands of women who all describe the exact same experience, regardless of culture.

You'll hear Amita's "food as medicine" starting point, the bite-sized lifestyle changes that actually stuck for her, and why she believes if men went through this, the research dollars would already be there.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQcJtHJ5770

In this episode

• What it's like to get hit with a hot flash mid-meeting and not even know the word "perimenopausal" yet
• Why so many women stay quiet at work for fear of age discrimination, and how that silence keeps the whole topic invisible
• Anxiety, mood swings, and "borderline depression": the symptoms Amita didn't expect and couldn't untangle from ordinary midlife pressure
• Why the medical system treats the body "in compartments," and what a whole-person, mind-body approach looks like instead
• The bite-sized, one-thing-at-a-time changes (starting with food) that actually stuck, instead of an overwhelming overhaul
• Body responsibility for the workplace: self-advocating when your labs come back "normal" but you know something's wrong

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet NourishDoc co-founder Amita Sharma
• (01:24) The hot flash in a meeting, and not even knowing the word "perimenopausal" yet
• (02:46) Fear of age discrimination: why she stayed quiet about it at work
• (05:14) Anxiety, mood swings, and "borderline depression" on top of ordinary midlife pressure
• (07:19) Why the medical system treats the body "in compartments," and the case for mind-body connection
• (09:24) The bite-sized lifestyle changes that worked, and the ones that didn't
• (12:35) "Food as medicine": where to start when everything feels like too much
• (15:34) Stepping back from full-time climbing the ladder into consulting to protect her health
• (18:06) Advocating for yourself when your labs come back normal but you know something's off
• (20:37) If men went through perimenopause, the research dollars would already be there
• (22:07) What NourishDoc actually is: bite-sized, holistic, and built from talking to thousands of women
• (28:34) Where to find Amita Sharma and NourishDoc

About Amita Sharma

Amita Sharma is the co-founder of NourishDoc, a holistic wellness platform focused on empowering women through perimenopause and beyond. Drawing on her own experience navigating symptoms in corporate roles, and conversations with thousands of women around the world, she built NourishDoc around bite-sized holistic guidance, symptom tracking, and community support.

Learn more at NourishDoc.com, or reach out directly at [email protected].

Favorite quotes "Nobody tells you, at least in my case, nobody told me or prepared me." —Amita Sharma "We are not just compartments here... it's all mind and body connection." —Amita Sharma "Food as medicine. It's so important what you put inside, you know, in your body is so important." —Amita Sharma Resources mentioned

• NourishDoc.com: Amita's holistic wellness platform for women navigating perimenopause and beyond, including a bite-sized program and an app launching at under $10 a month

Related episodes

• Why the Traditional 9-to-5 Is Failing Modern Mothers: more on how the modern workplace wasn't built with women's changing bodies and lives in mind.
• Glass Ceiling Shattered!: pairs with Amita's fear of age discrimination for anyone navigating being a woman at a certain career stage in corporate spaces.
• How to Spot Burnout Before It's Too Late: for anyone whose anxiety and exhaustion might be hormonal, workplace-driven, or (like Amita found) both at once.

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

Somersaults on the floor. Singing. A blue baseball bat from Amazon, five dollars, used to whack a couch. That's not a breakdown, my guest Susan Winchester says, that's how you actually process workplace conflict instead of swallowing it. If your instinct is to picture your chief HR officer doing any of that, you've never met Susan.

Susan spent 36 years in corporate HR, including stints as chief HR officer for Applied Materials (a Fortune 150 Silicon Valley company) and Rockwell Automation. She's the co-author, with Martha Finney, of Healing at Work: A Guide to Using Career Conflicts to Overcome Your Past and Build the Future You Deserve, and for 30 of those 36 years, her accomplishments were fueled by a belief she never said out loud: that she wasn't good enough. She unpacks the Centers for Disease Control's landmark ACEs study (nearly two-thirds of us have at least one adverse childhood experience), and the "bumper car moments" concept she and Martha coined for what workplace conflict actually feels like when an old wound gets tapped.

You'll walk away with her three-step rapid power reclaim method for the exact moment you feel emotionally activated at work, why "getting the emotion out of your body" comes before any conversation, and why healing at work sometimes really does start with a baseball bat and a couch.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ9hR4xUtBA

In this episode

• Why Susan calls the workplace a "laboratory" for emotional healing instead of something to just endure
• The CDC's ACEs study, and why nearly two-thirds of us carry at least one adverse childhood experience into our careers
• Big T vs. little t trauma, and why "a feeling of helplessness over a long amount of time" counts too
• The three-step "rapid power reclaim" for the moment you feel emotionally triggered at work: create choice, elevate action, celebrate and integrate
• What a "bumper car moment" is, and how naming it out loud can drain the whole charge
• Why healing at work almost always means facing pushback from family who liked the old, more people-pleasing version of you

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet former Fortune 150 chief HR officer Susan Winchester
• (01:13) The workplace as a laboratory: using conflict as a catalyst for emotional healing
• (02:39) The CDC/Kaiser ACEs study: nearly two-thirds of us carry at least one adverse childhood experience
• (05:00) Big T trauma vs. little t trauma, and "the unconscious wounded career path"
• (10:56) Almost not publishing Healing at Work: freezing in fear of being judged
• (14:33) The section Susan checkmarked twice: healing at work can trigger pushback from family
• (18:00) The rapid power reclaim, step one: create choice by getting the emotion out of your body
• (18:40) Step two, elevate action; step three, celebrate and integrate
• (23:26) The blue baseball bat and the somersaults: sound, movement, and breath in practice
• (25:37) What a "bumper car moment" is, and where the concept came from
• (29:30) The Power of Discord: why stepping into conflict builds stronger relationships
• (33:29) Where to find Susan Winchester, Healing at Work, and her free quiz

About Susan Winchester

Susan Winchester is the past chief HR officer for Applied Materials, a Fortune 150 Silicon Valley company, and Rockwell Automation. She's an author, sought-after keynote speaker, and HR consultant known for her book, Healing at Work: A Guide to Using Career Conflicts to Overcome Your Past and Build the Future You Deserve, co-written with Martha Finney.

Learn more at HealingAtWork.com, where you can also take her free quiz on what's fueling your workplace stress. Connect with Susan on Facebook, LinkedIn, or Instagram.

Favorite quotes "30 of my 36 years, my accomplishments were really fueled by my own underlying belief that I wasn't good enough." —Susan Winchester "We cannot create choice until we move that emotion out of our bodies." —Susan Winchester "The bumper car moment is the catalytic moment for emotional healing." —Susan Winchester Resources mentioned

• Healing at Work: Susan's book, co-written with Martha Finney
• HealingAtWork.com: Susan's website, with a free quiz on the root causes of your workplace stress
• Outlive by Dr. Peter Attia (referenced by Susan for its description of childhood trauma and helplessness)
• The Language of Letting Go by Melody Beattie (referenced for the idea of "letting other people be responsible for their own property")
• The Power of Discord by Dr. Ed Tronick and Dr. Claudia Gold (referenced on the power of stepping into conflict)
• Heal to Lead: Revolutionizing Leadership through Trauma Healing by Kelly L. Campbell (referenced by Susan alongside the rapid power reclaim method)
• MyHealingMenu.com: Kelly Campbell's compilation of somatic and body-based processing methods, mentioned by Susan

Related episodes

• The Path to Trauma-Informed Leadership: another guest tracing how unprocessed emotional wounds quietly run a career, from the leadership side.
• Setting Boundaries for Well-Being and Success: pairs with Susan's point that healing at work almost always means facing pushback when you set new boundaries with family.
• How to Spot Burnout Before It's Too Late: for anyone who recognized themselves in Susan's 30 years of "proving myself over and over."

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

My guest Carolyn Swora was in the middle of an ordinary work conversation with a kind colleague, being asked to do something completely unremarkable, when she suddenly burst into tears for no reason she could name. A friend called her afterward and asked if she was okay, then said something about being "trauma informed." Carolyn's response: "What is that? What's that word?" That question is where trauma-informed leadership starts, and it's the whole subject of this episode.

Carolyn is a leadership consultant, team coach, certified Dare to Lead facilitator, and two-time bestselling author. Her award-winning book, Evolve: The Path to Trauma-Informed Leadership, grew out of that unexplainable crying moment and 25 years of corporate experience, including 17 years in Big Pharma leadership, six years spent caring for her two young sons and her terminally ill husband, and an official burnout in 2007. We talk about what "trauma" actually means (hint: it doesn't require a machete), how her nervous system quietly ran her entire career without her knowing it, and why she now believes the body and brain were never separate to begin with.

You'll walk away with the actual symptoms of a nervous system on overload, the difference between big-T and little-t trauma, and why Carolyn now treats a sore back or a crawling scalp as her body talking to her instead of something to just push through.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3ikbwoPX1c

In this episode

• Why an unexplained crying spell at work sent Carolyn down the research rabbit hole that became her book
• Big T vs. little t trauma: why you don't need a machete story to have been affected
• How 17 years in Big Pharma leadership left her with "a really small sense of self-worth," and what she didn't know was underneath it
• Her official burnout in 2007, and the exact moment she finally asked for permission to slow down
• How to recognize the nervous-system symptoms telling you something's off (before your body forces a stop)
• Why treating your brain and body as separate is, per Carolyn, the root of "disembodied" leadership

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet leadership consultant and author Carolyn Swora
• (01:58) The unexplained crying moment with a colleague that started it all
• (05:59) Leaving a 17-year Big Pharma career with "a really small sense of self-worth"
• (07:57) Reframing trauma as "emotional wounds," and the Brené Brown notecard moment: "the inability to be vulnerable"
• (12:32) Discovering Stephen Porges's Polyvagal Theory, and running from her past for six years
• (16:04) Her official burnout in 2007, and asking permission to finally slow down
• (21:05) Vertical development leadership and why "the brain and body are one"
• (24:02) Bessel van der Kolk's The Body Keeps the Score, and reading your own nervous-system symptoms
• (25:43) The nervous-system symptoms that signal you're running on overload
• (27:28) Polyvagal states explained: sympathetic drive, dorsal shutdown, and ventral vagal safety
• (37:13) Where to find Carolyn Swora and her weekly Polyvagal newsletter

About Carolyn Swora

Carolyn Swora is a leadership consultant, team coach, and certified Dare to Lead facilitator (trained through Brené Brown's Dare to Lead community). She's a two-time bestselling author; her award-winning book, Evolve: The Path to Trauma-Informed Leadership, brings the nervous system into a conversation usually reserved for strategy and performance.

Learn more, read the books, and sign up for her weekly newsletter at CarolynSwora.com.

Favorite quotes "One of the biggest casualties of trauma is the inability to be vulnerable. And I swear it was one of those moments in my life where everything all came together, and I thought, damn, this is what happened to me and my leadership." —Carolyn Swora "The Phoenix has to rise out of this flame." —Carolyn Swora "We can only be as kind to others as we are to ourselves." —Carolyn Swora Resources mentioned

• CarolynSwora.com: Carolyn's website, books, podcast, and weekly Polyvagal newsletter
• Evolve: The Path to Trauma-Informed Leadership, Carolyn's award-winning book (discussed throughout the episode)
• Stephen Porges's Polyvagal Theory (referenced as the framework Carolyn discovered after finishing her book)
• Brené Brown's Dare to Lead research and facilitator training (the source of the "casualties of vulnerability" notecard moment)
• The work of trauma researchers Peter Levine, Gabor Maté, and Dan Siegel (named as early influences in Carolyn's research)
• The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk (referenced by Dana at 24:02)

Related episodes

• How Unresolved Trauma Is Ruling Your Life: more on the big-T/little-t distinction Carolyn walks through, from a different angle.
• How Your Survival Brain Is Sabotaging Your Happiness: pairs with Carolyn's polyvagal-state breakdown of sympathetic drive and dorsal shutdown.
• How Ego Is Sabotaging Your Leadership: another look at what's really running the show when a leader can't be vulnerable.

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz