A gentle note before you dive in: this conversation touches on murder-suicide and suicide attempts. It's okay to pause, skip ahead, or come back to this one another time.

It's Father's Day. A little tiny town in Upper Michigan, two restaurants, snow in May. My guest is 14 years old, standing in the driveway with her mom, waiting for her dad to grab his coat from the trunk of the car. Except it isn't a coat he pulls out. In under two minutes, Rhonda Britten watched her father murder her mother and take his own life, and then spent the next 20 years believing it was her fault for not stopping it. That's the story Rhonda tells at the start of this one, and I promise you, it only gets more remarkable from there.

Rhonda is an Emmy Award winner, a repeat Oprah guest, and a master coach who's worked with people across more than 600 episodes of reality television. She's authored four bestsellers, including "Fearless Living," translated into 16 languages, and founded the Fearless Living Institute. After three suicide attempts and a stint in a psychiatric ward, Rhonda started over like a kindergartner, literally, with a calendar and gold stars, and built what she now calls the Wheel of Fear: the invisible core trigger running your life until you know its name.

We get into how to find your own core trigger, why "fear of rejection" and "fear of failure" are almost never the real fear, and why you don't have to feel calm, cool, or together before you act on your Wheel of Freedom. If you've ever wondered what's actually underneath your procrastinating, your people-pleasing, or your perfectionism, this episode hands you the map.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlSP_QbSW2M

• How witnessing her father's murder-suicide at 14 split Rhonda into two people, and the 20-year spiral of alcoholism and three suicide attempts that followed
• What her third suicide attempt, and the psychiatric ward evaluation after it, actually taught her about starting over
• The Wheel of Fear quiz that reveals how procrastination, people-pleasing, and perfectionism are all fear responses in disguise, not the real problem
• How to trace your own "core trigger," the single hidden fear driving your specific self-sabotage
• Why you don't have to feel calm before you act on your Wheel of Freedom, proven by the true story of a first date in a two-seater convertible
• The free course Rhonda is offering Phoenix and Flame listeners to build their own Wheel of Fear and Wheel of Freedom

• (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet Emmy winner and master coach Rhonda Britten
• (01:19) The worst day of her life: her father's murder-suicide at 14
• (03:08) Splitting into "outside Rhonda" and "inside Rhonda"
• (06:32) The kindergarten reset: a calendar, gold stars, and the seed of courage
• (07:01) Physical fear vs. emotional fear, and 20 years of insisting she had none
• (11:06) What the Wheel of Fear actually is, and why it works to stay hidden
• (12:35) The fear-response quiz: nod your head if any of these sound familiar
• (18:58) Finding your core trigger: Rhonda's own is "loser"
• (23:19) Tracing a fear response back to its root, and what to do if you can't find the moment
• (25:53) The Wheel of Freedom and "essential nature": Rhonda's is "authentic"
• (31:41) The convertible-car story: acting on your Wheel of Freedom before you feel ready
• (36:17) Where to find Rhonda, her books, and her free "Stretch, Risk, or Die" course

Rhonda Britten is an Emmy Award winner, a repeat Oprah guest, and a master coach who has worked with people across more than 600 episodes of reality television. She has authored four bestsellers, including her seminal book "Fearless Living," which has been translated into 16 languages, and she founded the Fearless Living Institute, home of the Fearless Living Life Coach Certification Program.

Learn more and browse her books at FearlessLiving.org, or connect with her on LinkedIn.

• FearlessLiving.org: Rhonda's website and home of the Fearless Living Institute
• Rhonda's books, including "Fearless Living," translated into 16 languages
• Stretch, Risk, or Die: Rhonda's free course walking through the Wheel of Fear and Wheel of Freedom in three 15-minute videos, with templates and worksheets
• Rhonda Britten on LinkedIn

• The Fear Trap: pairs directly with Rhonda's Wheel of Fear framework for another angle on how fear quietly runs the show
• How Unresolved Trauma Is Ruling Your Life: a natural follow-up to Rhonda's own trauma-to-freedom journey
• How Your Survival Brain is Sabotaging Your Happiness: digs into the neurobiology behind the fear responses Rhonda and Dana discuss

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

What does it actually take to make someone stop long enough to overcome burnout instead of just pushing through it? For Jessica Hallahan the answer was a hospital bed at 24: covered in hives, twenty pounds lighter in a month, her knees too swollen to zip her own jeans, and fighting to keep her eyes open on the drive from her day job to her night shift bartending. Doctors tested her for Lyme disease, thyroid disease, and diabetes before her primary doctor finally asked the real question: when's the last time you sat still long enough to actually feel your own feelings? That, boundaries sojourners, is what burnout recovery starts with, and it doesn't knock politely. It runs you off the road.

Jessica has a master's in public health and now runs Journey to Yourself, the coaching practice (and podcast) she built out of that reality check. We get into why "I have to do it all" is a lie your nervous system eventually sends you the bill for, why the transactional version of helping people ("I'll do this so you'll do that for me") is quietly exhausting you, and why 80 percent of workplace stress traces back to one fixable thing: you not saying the thing out loud.

You'll walk away with Jessica's litmus test for knowing when a "yes" has quietly turned into resentment (hint: it starts with an eye twitch), the case for treating two minutes of peace like a non-negotiable meeting, and a reminder I give my own clients constantly: nobody else is coming to keep you together. That job is yours.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wxz8VuTGGZU

• Why saying "no" is a form of self-care, not selfishness, and how to spot when helping has slid into over-committing
• The hospital-bed wake-up call that turned a burnout-and-a-car-accident scare into Jessica's life's work
• Why 80% of workplace stress comes down to miscommunication, and the two things (tone and body language) most of us forget to manage
• How to break a people-pleasing pattern with a coworker who keeps dumping work on you, without becoming the office villain
• Why boundaries are flexible, not a ten-foot cinder block wall, and how to check in with yourself before you say yes
• The mindfulness reframe (minus the buzzwords) that makes staying present in the moment actually manageable

• (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet stress educator Jessica Hallahan
• (02:24) The rock-bottom story: hives, swollen knees, and falling asleep at the wheel at 24
• (04:24) Why so many of us, women especially, put ourselves last
• (09:03) The transactional trap in relationships: "I'll do this so you'll do that"
• (11:46) Mindfulness minus the buzzwords: presence without judgment
• (14:58) What actually happens when you set a boundary (hint: not rainbows)
• (18:56) Breaking the pattern: what to do when a coworker keeps dumping work on you
• (21:25) Why enabling isn't kindness, and what it costs a team
• (25:53) What happens when we expect people to read our minds
• (27:16) The 80% workplace-stress stat, and the fix hiding in plain sight
• (31:48) Where to find Jessica and her free resources

Jessica Hallahan holds a master's in public health and works as a speaker and stress management health educator. At 24 she was hospitalized because of burnout, and she built Journey to Yourself, her coaching practice and podcast, to help other people work through the same thing.

Find her free resources and ways to work with her at Jessica's site, or connect with her on LinkedIn.

• Journey to Yourself: Jessica's website, blog, and free resources, including the podcast of the same name
• Jessica Hallahan on LinkedIn: her Journey to Yourself 101 page with regular stress and boundary-setting reminders

• How to Spot Burnout Before It's Too Late: pairs directly with Jessica's story, digging into the early warning signs before you land in a hospital bed
• How to Reclaim Your Energy When You're Burned Out: the recovery-side follow-up to the burnout Jessica describes surviving at 24
• People-Pleasing and the Sticky Rope: goes deeper on the "put yourself last" pattern Jessica names as the root of her own burnout

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

"We want a wife too." That's the joke Heather Powers and her girlfriends at work used to make: someone at home scheduling the appointments, running to the dry cleaners, keeping the household Tetris moving so they could focus at the office. Heather has spent almost 19 years as a working mom in Washington, D.C. management consulting, and during the pandemic she found herself sitting with three schedules at once (hers, her son's, her daughter's), making sure everybody logged on to virtual school at the right time. That's when it crystallized for her: the traditional 9-to-5 wasn't built for the way most families actually run.

Heather grew up the daughter of a construction worker and a teacher in rural New Hampshire, moved to D.C. for what she calls "this mythical thing" called corporate life, and climbed to an executive role at one of the large management consulting firms, all while raising two kids. She's since founded The Power Lane, a consultancy that helps organizations and individuals accelerate toward their goals, and written a book by the same name making the business case for why working mothers are exactly who companies need right now.

We get into the corporate return-to-office fight Heather helped win for flexible work, why she thinks negotiating with a toddler prepares you for anything a boardroom can throw at you, and the very specific way she wants you to start asking for what you actually need at work.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQSOD1tl08c

• Why "we want a wife too" is the joke working moms make, and what it reveals about who's actually doing the invisible labor at home
• How the pandemic crystallized Heather's mission to advocate for working parents, three overlapping school schedules at a time
• Why project management, budgeting, and negotiation are skills parenting already taught you for free, and how to name them in a job interview
• The return-to-office fight Heather helped her organization win by refusing to accept a one-size-fits-all mandate
• Why staying quiet about what you're juggling at home trains your employer to assume you have none of it
• How to actually make the ask at work instead of hoping someone eventually notices what you're carrying

• (00:01) Welcome and intro: meet Heather Powers, founder of The Power Lane
• (01:54) From rural New Hampshire to nearly 30 years in Washington, D.C. management consulting
• (05:08) Finding the courage to leave home, and "you can't be what you can't see"
• (08:44) Founding The Power Lane, and why working moms became her focus
• (09:38) How the pandemic (and three overlapping school schedules) crystallized her mission
• (10:32) Winning the fight against a one-size-fits-all return-to-office mandate
• (11:57) The supervisor pushback that became her real turning point: "we are all at breaking points"
• (14:46) "We want a wife too": the invisible labor working parents carry, and why it's cultural, not just personal
• (19:34) Why leaders and companies have to change, and how to actually make the ask for what you need at work
• (22:19) The superpowers working moms build: project management, time management, negotiation
• (26:36) Heather's book, The Power Lane, and the business case for hiring working mothers
• (29:54) What Heather would say to a mom who's discouraged and afraid right now
• (31:07) Heather's offer: a free 30-minute consultation for the first 17 listeners who reach out

Heather Powers is the founder and CEO of The Power Lane, a consultancy that guides organizations and individuals to accelerate toward their business and revenue goals. After almost 19 years as a working mother in Washington, D.C. management consulting, including time as an executive at one of the large firms in the industry, she now writes and speaks on building workplaces that actually work for working parents. She's the author of the book The Power Lane.

Learn more at Heather's website, or connect with her on LinkedIn.

• The Power Lane by Heather Powers: her book making the business case for working mothers in the workforce
• HeatherLanePowers.com: Heather's website
• Heather Powers on LinkedIn

• Navigating Perimenopause in the Corporate World: more on the corporate structures that weren't built with women's real lives in mind.
• From Adversity To CEO: Victoria's Path to Leadership: another working woman's climb into leadership, and what she had to unlearn along the way.
• Setting Boundaries for Well-Being and Success: more on the boundary-setting Heather describes doing with her own calendar and workload.

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

A gentle note before you dive in: this conversation touches on addiction and loss of a spouse. It's okay to pause, skip ahead, or come back to this one another time.

Dr. Cali Estes was sitting on her floor eating cake with her hands, crying, with cake on the wall and cake on the dog, when her roommate walked in and said, "That's not normal." Cali's response: "What's not normal? This is what we do." She was 23, wanted to be an FBI agent, and had no idea she was already deep in a food addiction that a college counselor would later wave off ("you're not bulimic, you're not anorexic, so you're just fat") and a doctor would try to fix with a diet pill that was, at the time, still legal.

That diet pill (Fen-Phen, later pulled from the market for killing people) sent her looking for something stronger, and it took two ER visits and one doctor blunt enough to drop an F-bomb before she found her way to a yoga mat instead of a meeting room. Cali is now an addictions coach who's built her career on the idea that recovery isn't one-size-fits-all: the traditional meeting model works for some people and leaves plenty of others, like her, feeling worse instead of better. She's the founder of Sober On Demand and the Addictions Academy, a five-times #1 bestselling author, and a regular voice on CNN, Forbes, and more.

We get into her simple two-week test for telling casual use from addiction, the exact boundary she draws with parents who keep rescuing an addicted adult child, and why she believes loving someone sometimes means refusing to be the one who saves them.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVIwbDaq4Cs

• Dr. Cali's simple two-week test for telling casual use from addiction
• Why the traditional 12-step meeting model works for some people, and made her own addiction worse
• How a hot yoga class, not a treatment center, became the turning point in her own recovery
• The difference between therapy and coaching, and why she made the shift to coaching in 2012
• Her "brain dump" exercise for clearing ruminating thoughts before they spiral
• The boundary she tells parents to hold when an adult child's addiction keeps putting everyone in danger

• (00:01) Welcome and intro: meet addictions coach Dr. Cali Estes
• (01:24) Wanting to be an FBI agent, and the night that led to a cake-eating breakdown on the floor
• (02:52) "You're just fat": a counselor's dismissal, and the diet pill that made things worse
• (04:26) Trying NA and OA, and why the snack table almost pulled her back into using
• (04:55) The addiction class where she scored "20 out of 20" on her professor's checklist
• (05:55) No health insurance, no rehab: how a friend dragged her to hot yoga instead
• (07:24) Ten sun salutations before you open the fridge: the practice that started to work
• (08:23) What she saw working in treatment centers, and why she quit on the spot
• (10:32) Why the meetings work for fellowship but not the therapeutic piece, and the shift to coaching in 2012
• (16:15) The two markers Dr. Cali uses to tell functional use from addiction
• (17:51) Trading the drug for the meeting: why some people get stuck in the rooms
• (20:26) The "brain dump" exercise for clearing ruminating thoughts
• (22:52) The mother who bought heroin with her son, and the boundary Dr. Cali drew
• (31:39) Advice for women scared to start a business: freedom over money

Dr. Cali Estes is an addictions coach and the founder of Sober On Demand and the Addictions Academy, the online addiction and mental health education school she describes as the largest of its kind. She's a five-times #1 bestselling author and host of the podcast Unpause Your Life, and her expertise has been featured on CNN, NBC, ABC, MSN Money, CNBC, CBS, Fox News, KTLA, Forbes, HBO, the LA Times, People Magazine, and The Drew Show.

Learn more at Dr. Cali's website, or connect with her on LinkedIn.

• Sober On Demand: the recovery company Dr. Cali founded
• The Addictions Academy: her online addiction and mental health education school
• Unpause Your Life: Dr. Cali's own podcast
• CaliEstes.com: Dr. Cali's website
• Dr. Cali Estes on LinkedIn

• Journey From Addict to Award-Winning Author: Interview with Melanie Yates: another guest who rebuilt an entire identity and career on the other side of active addiction.
• Healing from Trauma and Addiction: Dr. Stephan Neff's Journey: more on the trauma underneath addiction, the piece Dr. Cali says the meetings rarely address.
• Trauma Impact: From Codependency to Self-Mastery: a closer look at the codependency and enabling patterns Dr. Cali describes in the families of people she coaches.

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

In this episode, Dana is joined by Kate Semeniuk, a Rapid Transformational Hypnotherapist, to explore the unseen forces in our minds that hold us back. Have you ever known logically what you need to do—like set a boundary or say no—but found yourself unable to act? Kate reveals how subconscious beliefs, often formed in childhood, create these internal conflicts. She explains that fear and suppressed anger are not weaknesses but misguided protection strategies from a younger self. This conversation is for anyone ready to stop fighting their own mind and finally align their actions with their intentions, reclaiming control over their life and happiness.

Kate's LinkedIn Kate's Website

The cardiologist walked in, looked at the chart, and skipped hello. He looked Michael Levitt dead in the eye and said, "You know, you should be dead right now." Michael's first wife and mother, sitting beside him, started crying. Michael looked back and said, "I see you skipped a bedside manner class in medical school." That's the kind of guy you're dealing with: the kind who can crack a joke about his own near-fatal heart attack. But the blockage in his "widow maker" artery wasn't a joke. It was burnout, built over two years of six a.m. to eleven p.m. shifts, seven days a week, and it nearly killed him.

Michael is the founder of the Breakfast Leadership Network and calls himself the Chief Burnout Officer (a title, he says, that came to him in the shower). In the twelve months after that heart attack, he also lost his job during the Great Recession, had the family car repossessed, and came home one weekend to find his house padlocked in foreclosure. All of it, he says now, traces back to the same root: he was burned out, and he ignored every warning sign his own family kept pointing out to him.

We get into the sleep, diet, and calendar checks Michael now runs with coaching clients to catch burnout before it becomes a hospital visit, why "no" is a complete sentence, and the almost embarrassingly simple color-coding trick that shows you, at a glance, whether you're actually taking any time for yourself.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNQv1ftYwtk

• The three questions Michael asks every coaching client to check for burnout: sleep, diet, and calendar
• Why the biggest red flag of Michael's own burnout wasn't work related at all (he stopped going to baseball games)
• How one year of untreated burnout led to a heart attack, job loss, a repossessed car, and a foreclosed home
• The calendar color-coding trick that shows you, at a glance, whether you're scheduling any time for yourself
• Why financial stress is one of the most dangerous, and most overlooked, burnout accelerants
• How Michael uses curiosity instead of blame to help clients figure out what they're really chasing

• (00:01) Welcome and intro: meet Michael Levitt, the "Chief Burnout Officer"
• (01:28) How burnout first took hold, working 6 a.m. to 11 p.m. as a healthcare startup executive
• (02:50) Getting numb: how burnout convinces you to just keep working through it
• (05:54) The cardiologist's blunt warning: "You should be dead right now"
• (10:12) The year burnout cost Michael his health, his job, his car, and his house
• (13:02) The mental health toll of burnout: anxiety, depression, and feeling stuck in a "black place"
• (17:11) The red flag everyone else saw before Michael did: he stopped going to baseball games
• (19:33) Boundaries, delegating, and why "no" is a complete sentence
• (21:55) The three questions Michael asks clients to check for burnout: sleep, diet, calendar
• (26:15) The calendar color-coding trick for spotting how much "me time" you're actually getting
• (33:03) Michael's free book, Burnout Proof, and his parting advice

Michael Levitt is the founder of the Breakfast Leadership Network, a media firm dedicated to addressing burnout and improving workplace culture, and calls himself the Chief Burnout Officer. After his own burnout led to a heart attack, job loss, and home foreclosure within a single year, he built a coaching practice around catching those same warning signs early, in himself and in his clients.

Learn more at Breakfast Leadership, watch his video podcast on YouTube, or connect with him on LinkedIn.

• Burnout Proof by Michael Levitt: his book, available as a free download from his website
• BreakfastLeadership.com: Michael's media company, focused on burnout and workplace culture
• Michael's video podcast on YouTube
• Michael Levitt on LinkedIn

• Finding Freedom After Success-Fueled Anxiety: recorded the week before this one, with Matt Gerlach on what burnout feels like from the inside before it reaches a hospital visit.
• Overcoming Burnout, Hustle Culture, and Redefining Success: more on untangling your identity from the hustle that burned you out.
• How to Reclaim Your Energy When You're Burned Out: a newer conversation on rebuilding after burnout has already taken hold.

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

Matt Gerlach built himself a million-dollar-a-year consulting business, and twice ended up in the hospital convinced he was having a heart attack. The day he started that business, eight years ago, what he calls "obsessive worrying" moved in and never left. He smoked a pack of cigarettes a day, drank more than he should have, stopped sleeping well, and didn't clock any of it as a health problem, because the business was working. That's success-fueled anxiety: the version that shows up right on schedule with everything going well.

Matt has spent 15 years helping dozens of startups scale to seven, eight, and nine figures, but that resume doesn't mention the boundary he was too scared to set, or the fact that his grandmother's constant worry and his mother's stress migraines had already written a chunk of the script for his own anxiety before he ever noticed. He eventually trained as a yoga instructor, and it was sitting in that training, surrounded by other adults talking openly about their mental health, that he realized his childhood carried a lot more sadness and unprocessed trauma than he'd ever let himself admit.

We get into how he learned to tell the difference between discomfort you push through and pain that means stop, why he now treats every wake-up call as an invitation instead of a failure, and the simple question he asks anxious clients who can't sleep: what's actually on your mind, and why?

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0OZ-anJAfU

• Why anxiety and depression can show up right when your business finally starts working, and how to catch the warning signs earlier than Matt did
• The yoga-mat framework Matt uses to tell "sit through it" discomfort from "stop right now" pain
• How Matt grew a million-dollar consulting business by learning to advocate for fair pay and hold his own boundaries
• Why family patterns of anxiety and worry can shape your own long before you ever notice it happening
• A simple journaling exercise for figuring out what's actually driving a sleepless, anxious night
• Why Matt walked away from that million-dollar business seven months ago to build something that felt more like him

• (00:01) Welcome and intro: meet entrepreneur and coach Matt Gerlach
• (01:38) How boundaries and learning to say no led Matt into coaching
• (03:55) The yoga framework: discomfort you sit through vs. pain that means stop
• (05:31) Survival, not passion: why Matt became an entrepreneur in the first place
• (08:04) The traits Matt has seen separate people who thrive as entrepreneurs
• (14:54) Setting boundaries is Matt's own responsibility, and no one else's
• (19:55) Hitting rock bottom: anxiety, depression, and suicidal thoughts after starting his first business
• (24:38) The wake-up call: those symptoms were telling him not to start that business in the first place
• (27:00) Journaling your way to what's actually bothering you
• (31:28) Holistic health first: why Matt tries the accessible stuff before medication
• (35:13) Where to find Matt, and his free Friday Brunch Club for LA locals

Matt Gerlach has spent 15 years helping dozens of startups scale to seven, eight, and nine figures. He built his own consulting and services business to seven figures before stepping away from it seven months ago. He's a certified yoga instructor and now works with entrepreneurs and executives grappling with self-doubt and anxiety, guiding them toward more freedom and impact in their businesses and lives.

Learn more at Matt's website, or connect with him on LinkedIn.

• 10x Is Easier Than 2x: the book Matt says he's listened to four times, on why entrepreneurs should pay their people well enough that losing them would hurt
• Erin French's memoir about building The Lost Kitchen restaurant (title not stated on air), which Matt references as an example of unaddressed pain outlasting any amount of medication
• The Friday Brunch Club: Matt's free, biweekly gathering for "cool, interesting people" at his home in Los Angeles; reach him directly to be invited
• MattGerlach.com: Matt's website
• Matt Gerlach on LinkedIn

• How to Spot Burnout Before It's Too Late: recorded the same week as this one, with Michael Levitt on the physical warning signs Matt describes here from the inside.
• Overcoming Burnout, Hustle Culture, and Redefining Success: more on rebuilding a definition of success that doesn't cost you your health.
• How Your Survival Brain Is Sabotaging Your Happiness: the biology behind the "obsessive worrying" Matt describes living with for years.

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

Host Dana Skaggs sits down with Abagail McKiernan, founder of the nonprofit HelpLink, to uncover the deeply personal story that inspired her mission. What began as a moment of isolation became a movement rooted in unconditional generosity. Together, they explore how giving without expectation can restore dignity, forge authentic community, and remind us that the kindness we extend often finds its way back when we need it most. Abagail's Linkedin HelpLink

A gentle note before you dive in: this conversation touches on sexual assault. It's okay to pause, skip ahead, or come back to this one another time.

Katharine Giovanni attempted suicide in the eighth grade. She grew up in what she calls a "pickled family" (both parents were alcoholics), got bullied for not fitting into anybody's box, and spent years wearing her survivor story like an outfit: I lived through this, look at me. Then her mother fell down a flight of stairs, dried out in the hospital, and the two of them spent a few years closer than sisters, before her mother died of breast cancer. That was Katharine's flashpoint. She got sober (35 years and counting), and eventually built an entire method for how to forgive someone, even the person you're positive doesn't deserve it.

I've watched enough people get told to "just forgive" and sent off with zero instructions to know how empty that advice is. Katharine is a three-time bestselling author of more than a dozen books, including her latest, The Ultimate Path to Forgiveness: Unlocking Your Power, and she's the first to say the unforgivable doesn't have to be forgiven right away, or maybe ever. Her method starts with the easy people and works up to the hard ones, ranking everyone on a scale of one to ten and never skipping straight to your tens.

We get into her exact forgiveness mantra, why forgiveness is 100 percent compatible with never speaking to someone again, and why (yes, you read that right) you can absolutely forgive someone who's already dead. This is forgiveness with the boundaries left on, and that's exactly the kind I can get behind.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUCd3I_EAY4

• Why "just forgive them" advice fails, and the step-by-step method Katharine built instead
• The difference between forgiving someone and reconciling with them (you can do one without ever doing the other)
• Katharine's forgiveness mantra, and how to use it alone at home in under five minutes
• Why you can forgive someone you'll never speak to again, including people who have already died
• Why "forgive and forget" is a myth, and what actually changes in your body when you truly let go
• How forgiveness and boundaries work together instead of against each other

• (00:01) Welcome and intro: meet forgiveness coach and author Katharine Giovanni
• (01:33) Why everyone tells you to forgive and nobody teaches you how
• (02:00) Katharine's "pickled family," being bullied, and a suicide attempt in eighth grade
• (05:06) Her mother's fall, rehab, and death from breast cancer: the flashpoint that got her sober
• (06:16) Reconciliation isn't the goal: "just because I forgive you doesn't mean I want a relationship with you"
• (09:43) Stop letting them live rent free in your head
• (15:03) The forgiveness mantra, step by step
• (15:30) The rule: start with the easy people, work up to the "tens," never more than ten at a time
• (20:12) How to forgive the truly unforgivable
• (21:04) Forgiveness, justice, and boundaries: why they're not the same thing
• (24:03) Forgiving the pieces of a memory: the desk, the playground, even the year itself
• (25:32) What happened in Katharine's body when she forgave too many people at once
• (33:42) Where to find Katharine and her book

Katharine Giovanni is a three-time award-winning bestselling author and speaker who has written more than a dozen books, including her latest, The Ultimate Path to Forgiveness: Unlocking Your Power. A survivor of stage three breast cancer and a turbulent childhood, she spent years teaching people how to run concierge businesses before retiring from that work in 2020 to focus on the forgiveness method she developed in 2021.

Learn more at Katharine's website, or connect with her on LinkedIn.

• The Ultimate Path to Forgiveness: Unlocking Your Power by Katharine Giovanni: her latest book, and the source of the step-by-step forgiveness method discussed throughout the episode
• KatharineGiovanni.com: Katharine's website
• Katharine Giovanni on LinkedIn

• The Jungle of Forgiveness and Boundaries - Can They Co-Exist?: Dana's own earlier deep dive into the exact question this episode answers.
• Getting Pulled Into the Past: Our Shame Response and the Impact of Unprocessed Trauma: more on why old wounds keep firing until you actually process them, the same territory Katharine's method covers.
• How to Reclaim Your Power from Shame: a newer conversation on taking your power back from old pain, a natural next listen after this one.

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

A patient once told me, in confidence, that his love language was physical touch, but he couldn't just ask for it. So instead he leaned into a reputation as a player and used sex as the vehicle to get the one thing he actually wanted: to be held. That story is exactly why traditional masculinity is failing so many modern relationships, according to my guest today, licensed marriage and family therapist Kristal Desantis. Men are more touch-starved than most of us realize, she says, and the old script never gave them another way to ask for it.

Kristal specializes in relationships, trauma work, and sex therapy, and her insights have been featured in Newsweek, HuffPost, The Good Men Project, and Time. She grew up surrounded entirely by women, in a family of six girls, then moved from Japan to an American women's college and got her first real look at male culture working in a sports bar. That outsider curiosity became her life's work: understanding why the old three P's of masculinity (protector, provider, procreator) collapsed almost overnight, while nobody built men a new script to replace it.

We get into the "masculinity trap" (criticized for being too stoic, then judged the moment you open up), why so many men are touch-starved, and the first two pillars of Kristal's STRONG model: safety and trust. If you've ever wondered why the men in your life seem damned if they do and damned if they don't, this one's for you.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HObnxsijlHY

• Why the old three P's of masculinity (protector, provider, procreator) don't work in modern relationships anymore
• The "masculinity trap": criticized for being too stoic, then judged for opening up
• Why so many men are touch-starved, and how that quietly shapes their choices
• The STRONG model's first two pillars: safety (the four S's) and trust
• Why "getting the ick" from a man's vulnerability keeps men stuck in performance mode
• A practical first step for anyone whose worth has gotten tangled up in money, height, or status

• (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet Kristal Desantis, licensed marriage and family therapist
• (00:57) Growing up around women, then discovering American dating culture from a sports bar
• (05:50) The old three P's of masculinity: protector, provider, procreator
• (09:53) Why men are people too, and where are the resources for their emotional growth
• (11:28) "Damned if I do, damned if I don't": vulnerability and getting "the ick"
• (14:03) A patient's confession: using sex as a stand-in for touch he couldn't ask for
• (16:40) Building the STRONG model for action-oriented men, like veterans and first responders
• (16:40) The four S's of safety: self-awareness, self-regulation, stability, being safe with emotions
• (23:14) The "multi-option woman, no-option man" trap, and dating by wallet
• (25:43) One practical tip for men without a support system after a bad date
• (27:22) Trust, attachment styles, and repairing a broken promise
• (32:27) Where to find Kristal's book, Strong: A Relationship Field Guide for the Modern Man

Kristal Desantis is a licensed marriage and family therapist known for her expertise in relationships, trauma work, and sex therapy. Her insights have been featured in Newsweek, HuffPost, The Good Men Project, and Time. She is the creator of the STRONG model of relational therapy and the author of "Strong: A Relationship Field Guide for the Modern Man," available in print and on Audible.

Connect with her on LinkedIn, or visit her website at strong.love.

• Strong.love: Kristal's website
• Kristal Desantis on LinkedIn
• "Strong: A Relationship Field Guide for the Modern Man," Kristal's book, available on Amazon and Audible
• "The Boy Crisis," referenced for the "multi-option woman, no-option man" framing

• The Art of True Connection in a Lonely World: more on building the kind of emotional safety Kristal describes.
• Vulnerability, Authenticity, and Connection: An Interview with Coach Lee Hopkins: another conversation on what it costs men to stay guarded.
• Finding Purpose After Relational Trauma: pairs with Kristal's chapter on trust and repairing broken promises.

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz