Phoenix and Flame Podcast

Picture a high school track meet: a sixteen-pound shot put thrown the wrong direction, a burst spleen, three weeks in a hospital bed. That's how my guest this week learned, at sixteen or seventeen, that avoiding failure is exactly what guarantees it. Mark DeCarlo woke up after three days unconscious to a doctor telling him ten more minutes and he'd have been dead, and he's spent every day since orienting his choices around one question: will this make me more happy or less happy?

Mark is an Emmy award-winning comedian, bestselling author, and in-demand corporate speaker and leadership trainer (also, if you had a kid in the 2000s, the voice of Hugh Neutron). We get into why he believes fear is always and only self-destructive, never useful once you're past outrunning actual predators, and why failing on purpose, over and over, is the only way to find out what you actually like. Mark also walks through the "ten times" exercise for identifying your own happiness, and calls out the biggest myth keeping high performers stuck: that you have to suffer now to be happy later.

If you're one of my high performers white-knuckling through burnout because you think the money has to come first, this one's for you. Mark's simple two-bucket framework for burnout, and his blunt reminder that no one's getting out of this alive, might be exactly the permission slip you need to stop postponing your own happiness.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tc9hy5ItJ4

In this episode

• Why avoiding failure is what actually guarantees it, and how a near-death shot-put accident taught Mark to use happiness as his life's "North Star"
• Why fear is always and only self-destructive, and the difference between fear and healthy caution
• The "ten times" exercise for finding out what actually makes you happy, not what you think should
• Why working harder now to be happy "later" is backwards, and what to do instead
• How losing 80 pounds by telling everyone his goal, instead of hiding it, taught Mark the power of public accountability
• The two buckets of burnout, and what to do about each one

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet Emmy-winning comedian Mark DeCarlo
• (01:16) The near-death shot-put accident that reoriented Mark's whole life
• (03:06) Why time, not money, is the resource you can't get back
• (04:30) Try everything: finding what you like by crossing off what you don't
• (06:19) Fear vs. caution, and why fear is always self-destructive
• (07:57) Thomas Edison, failure, and the scientific method for finding happiness
• (09:47) Chaos, entropy, and why happiness has to come before the money
• (16:02) How do you actually know if you're happy? Spotting the dopamine trap
• (19:34) Losing 80 pounds: the power of telling everyone your goal
• (21:30) "If you don't fail, you're not pushing hard enough"
• (24:15) Doing it scared: fear doesn't get the final vote
• (31:02) The two buckets of burnout, and what to do about each one
• (35:12) Where to find Mark and his work

About Mark DeCarlo

Mark DeCarlo is an Emmy award-winning comedian, bestselling author, and in-demand corporate speaker and leadership trainer. He's also the voice of Hugh Neutron on Nickelodeon's Jimmy Neutron and a former travel show host. After a near-death accident in high school, he built his career and his life around a single question: does this choice make me more happy or less happy?

Learn more at Mark's website, or follow him on Instagram.

Favorite quotes "Fear is only and always self-destructive." —Mark DeCarlo "And if you don't fail, you're not pushing hard enough." —Mark DeCarlo "No one's getting out of this alive." —Mark DeCarlo Resources mentioned

• MarkDeCarloSpeaker.com: Mark's website
• Mark DeCarlo TV on Instagram: Mark's travel content and updates

Related episodes

• The Fear Trap: more on why fear keeps us stuck, and how to stop letting it drive the car
• How Your Survival Brain Is Sabotaging Your Happiness: the science behind why chasing happiness feels so much harder than it should
• How to Spot Burnout Before It's Too Late: pairs with Mark's two-bucket burnout framework from this episode

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

Would your young adult be able to survive without you? That's the question my guest Joanna Lilley says every parent should be able to answer, and if your gut response is "no" or "I don't know," she's got thoughts. Joanna is a therapeutic consultant who works exclusively with what she calls "emerging adults," people 18 and up who are unraveling in college or not thriving in adulthood, and after years in the field she's convinced young adults are more stuck than ever: not because they're lazy, but because they're paralyzed by too many options and too little structure.

Joanna's practice, Lilley Consulting, has helped young adults find mental health, substance use, and wellness resources since 2016. We get into why "too many choices" can freeze someone as badly as too few, the difference between a real boundary and plain distress intolerance, and her blunt advice for parents: don't let fear keep you from holding one, and don't try to be your own kid's therapist.

Whether you're the parent lying awake wondering if you're helping or enabling, or the 20-something wondering why "adulting" feels impossible, Joanna's got a roadmap that doesn't require pretending anyone has all the answers.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHXcxINrWCM

In this episode

• Why young adults are more stuck than ever, and how "too many options" can paralyze decision-making more than too few
• The question Joanna says every parent should be able to answer: would your young adult survive without you?
• Why "the path to hell is paved with good intentions" when parents try to be their kid's therapist or coach
• The real difference between a boundary and plain distress intolerance
• How to build structure and forward momentum for a young adult who skips (or leaves) college
• Practical guardrails for gaming, codependent parenting, and job-hopping, without the shame spiral

Timestamps

• (00:02) Welcome and introducing therapeutic consultant Joanna Lilley
• (01:48) Why Joanna went back to grad school, and the assistantship that made it possible
• (04:54) Why she chose to work exclusively with "emerging adults"
• (08:24) What young adults are actually struggling with right now
• (10:11) Why more options can create more stuckness, not less
• (12:35) The dark question: would your young adult survive without you?
• (17:06) Holding a boundary without letting fear drive your parenting
• (22:40) Building structure and momentum for a young adult who skips college
• (28:01) Gaming, codependent parenting, and why the average young adult may have nine careers
• (34:07) The difference between a real boundary and distress intolerance
• (41:38) Where to find Joanna, her blog, and her podcast, Success Is Subjective

About Joanna Lilley

Joanna Lilley is a therapeutic consultant and founder of Lilley Consulting, which since 2016 has helped young adults 18-plus find mental health, substance use, and wellness resources. She dedicates herself to working solely with emerging adults who unravel in college or aren't thriving in adulthood, and hosts her own podcast, Success Is Subjective.

Learn more, read her blog, and find her podcast at LilleyConsulting.com, or connect with her on LinkedIn.

Favorite quotes "Would your young adult be able to survive without you?" —Joanna Lilley "The path to hell is paved with good intentions." —Joanna Lilley, on parents trying to be their own kid's therapist "It's okay to not know at 18 what you're gonna do the rest of your life, because nobody did." —Joanna Lilley Resources mentioned

• LilleyConsulting.com: Joanna's site, blog, and consulting practice for young adults and families
• Success Is Subjective, Joanna's own podcast
• Joanna Lilley on LinkedIn

Related episodes

• How to Overcome Anxiety and Network with Confidence: More support for young adults navigating the anxiety Joanna describes around careers and next steps.
• How Your Survival Brain is Sabotaging Your Happiness: A deeper look at why the brain freezes up when facing too many choices.
• Boundaries - Why Can't I Set Them?: More on the real difference between a boundary and avoidance, the distinction Joanna draws here.

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

Picture coming home to a business card tucked into your door jamb. It says "coroner's unit, robbery unit," with a handwritten note: call me please. That's how my guest Mandi Pratt found out, a year after leaving an abusive marriage, that the FBI had been hunting her ex-husband for six to nine months, for a string of bank robberies. If you've ever wondered how to trust your intuition after trauma, when your own mind has been trained to doubt itself, this is the episode that shows you how, from someone whose story was on the news twice.

Mandi transformed that plot twist into a framework for self-leadership and resilience, and now helps individuals and organizations understand how stress and survival responses affect decision-making, boundaries, and wellbeing. We get into what "survival mode" actually looks like when you're a single mom of a toddler with a criminal case unfolding around you, why validation (not advice) is what actually cuts the risk of complex PTSD, and Mandi's simple "happy list," a menu of go-to things that help her regulate when she can't think straight enough to help herself.

Twenty years out, Mandi is remarried, her son is grown, and she's still learning what it means for a nervous system to finally feel safe enough to rest.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDUahmDXqOU

In this episode

• How to trust your intuition after trauma, starting with Mandi's first step: learning to actually pause
• What "survival mode" really looks like when you're a single parent with a criminal case unfolding around you
• Why validation, not advice, is what actually cuts the risk of complex PTSD (and what it sounds like)
• How to vet the people you lean on after abuse, and why "are you sure? he seems so nice" does real damage
• Mandi's "happy list": a pre-made menu of things that help, for the days you can't think straight enough to choose
• Why your body can fall apart once it finally feels safe, and why that's not a setback

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and introducing self-leadership expert Mandi Pratt
• (01:52) The FBI business card in the door jamb
• (03:24) Learning her ex had been robbing banks for months
• (07:19) Survival mode as a single mom: no time for emotional processing
• (08:21) Institutional betrayal, and why the resources just weren't there yet
• (11:15) Leaning on pets, movement, and time outside when talk therapy wasn't enough
• (12:36) Why intuition alarm bells get rationalized away, especially for women
• (15:29) The patterning that keeps trauma survivors from saying no
• (18:03) Why validation alone cuts complex PTSD risk by three times
• (21:11) The pile of ash: finding the "light at the end of the tunnel" one micro-step at a time
• (25:19) Moving from fight-or-flight, and why it took 20 years, not 20 days
• (29:14) The "happy list": Mandi's go-to menu for regulating on the hard days
• (31:41) Where to find Mandi, her intuition quiz, and her free five-day challenge

About Mandi Pratt

Mandi Pratt is a speaker and self-leadership expert who turned a life-shattering crisis, leaving an abusive marriage only to learn her ex-husband was wanted by the FBI for bank robbery, into a framework for helping individuals and organizations move from fight-or-flight into clarity, confidence, and inner stability.

Take her free intuition quiz at womenawareandprepared.com/quiz, or learn more at mandipratt.com. She's also on Instagram as "Women Aware and Prepared" and on LinkedIn under her own name.

Favorite quotes "Even with unhealthy relationships, a lot of times we will get those intuition alarm bells going off. But a lot of times we rationalize it." —Mandi Pratt "You don't have to keep living that way. You don't have to keep hustle, hustle, hustle. Your nervous system can't take that anymore." —Mandi Pratt "If you just validate, that sounds so hard, and I am so sorry that you're going through that. I hear you." —Mandi Pratt, on what actually helps someone in crisis Resources mentioned

• Mandi's free intuition quiz, plus a five-day challenge to strengthen your intuition after taking it
• MandiPratt.com: Mandi's site
• Mandi on Instagram and LinkedIn as "Women Aware and Prepared" / Mandi Pratt

Related episodes

• The Hidden Tactics Narcissists Use to Control You: More on the post-separation abuse and manipulation patterns Mandi navigated with her ex.
• Surviving Gaslighters and Manipulators: A companion look at rebuilding trust in your own perception after abuse.
• How Unresolved Trauma Is Ruling Your Life: More on why the body keeps score long after the danger has passed, as Mandi describes.

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

Picture a school counselor's office with a shoebox of sand tucked under the desk. A parent is on the phone getting heated, and while she listens, my guest slips off one shoe and presses her foot into the sand until she can practically smell the ocean. Thirty seconds later, she's steady again. That trick is one of dozens Dianne Andree uses to reclaim her energy when she's burned out, and she's spent more than 25 years in education and mental health learning how.

Dianne is an award-winning international speaker and burnout prevention specialist who stood on the brink of burnout herself as a school counselor and administrator, to the point she nearly left the field entirely. We get into the difference between American "hurry culture" and how the rest of the world treats rest (something she noticed firsthand representing the U.S. on a panel with a dozen other countries in India), why "I should be doing more" is the thought that burns high performers out the fastest, and her "power of pause" method for staying present instead of comparing your path to everyone else's.

We also cover the four biggest energy drains Dianne sees most in her coaching, and why "stop shoulding on yourself" might be the best boundary advice you hear all year.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwhVSoFLrwI

In this episode

• Why reclaiming your energy when you're burned out starts with noticing the sleep that never actually rests you
• The "hurry culture" habit most Americans don't even realize they have, and what other countries do differently
• Dianne's "power of pause" method for staying present instead of comparing your path to everyone else's
• The "30-second reset" she teaches for when things start to spiral
• Why "stop shoulding on yourself" beats chasing the next TEDx talk or book deal
• The biggest energy drains Dianne sees most in high performers, and what to do about them

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and introducing burnout prevention specialist Dianne Andree
• (01:23) How she landed in school counseling, and later, burnout prevention
• (08:39) What burnout actually felt like: sleep that never rests you
• (11:28) Small daily practices that helped her cope: music, journaling, drive-time to decompress
• (13:33) Learning to say no, so you can say yes to what matters
• (14:40) Deciding who is an energy drain and who is an energy filler
• (18:03) America's "hurry culture," and what she saw representing the U.S. alongside a dozen other countries
• (21:02) Why human connection, not more doing, is the real fix for burnout
• (22:21) The "30-second reset" and getting grounded before things spiral
• (23:23) The shoebox-of-sand trick from her school counseling days
• (26:46) Comparison, "good enough," and social media's highlight reel
• (29:11) Harnessing the "power of pause" to sit in gratitude instead of the path ahead
• (32:30) Where to find Dianne, and her free "simple morning routine"

About Dianne Andree

Dianne Andree is an award-winning international speaker and burnout prevention specialist with more than 25 years of experience in mental health, having stood on the brink of burnout herself. She brings powerful insight, authenticity, and practical strategies that help individuals and organizations reclaim energy, focus, and purpose.

Learn more, including her free "simple morning routine" guide, at dianneandree.com, or connect with her on LinkedIn.

Favorite quotes "Stop shoulding on yourself. Should, shoulda, coulda, woulda, stop shoulding on yourself." —Dianne Andree "There's a lot of things in our life we can't control, but I can decide where I put my energy. That is something I have complete control over." —Dianne Andree "The windshield is bigger than the rear view mirror for a reason." —Dianne Andree Resources mentioned

• DianneAndree.com: Dianne's site, home to her free "simple morning routine" guide and "30-second reset" videos
• Dianne Andree on LinkedIn
• Emory University's Compassion Center, referenced by Dianne as the source of her cognitively based compassion training certification
• How to Fill Your Bucket, the "cute little book" Dianne mentions on the "you can't pour from an empty bucket" idea

Related episodes

• How to Spot Burnout Before It's Too Late: More on catching the early warning signs Dianne describes before you hit rock bottom.
• Overcoming Burnout, Hustle Culture, and Redefining Success: A companion conversation on why hustle culture burns out high performers, and how to redefine success on your own terms.
• Why Your Midlife 'Crisis' Might Actually Be Burnout: Another look at burnout as a full-body wake-up call rather than a personal failing.

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

Jackie Miller is wandering her own weed-filled backyard in her pajamas and slippers, late afternoon in the middle of summer, hasn't showered, hasn't eaten, and can't quite remember how she got there, worn down by exactly the hidden tactics narcissists use to control you. That's the moment Jackie, a high-conflict divorce coach and post-separation abuse strategist, names as her wake-up call, a year and a half into rebuilding after 16 and a half years married to a man who chipped away at her a little at a time: what she calls "death by a thousand paper cuts." If you've ever wondered why the people around you can't seem to see it happening, this episode names every one of them.

Jackie survived that 16.5-year emotionally, verbally, and financially abusive marriage, then a grueling two-and-a-half-year high-conflict divorce, and now helps women "escape toxic entanglements, reclaim their energy, and win without playing the narcissist's game." We get into the "frog in boiling water" beginning (whirlwind love bombing, married within 18 months), the financial control that left her name off every account after 16 years of marriage, and how the abuse didn't stop at separation, it just moved into the courtroom.

You'll also hear my "meat hook" visual for the moment a narcissist tries to bait you back into a fight, and the simple written record that helped Jackie hold onto the truth when the self-doubt crept back in.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znEPkqRqbww

In this episode

• Why the "frog in boiling water" beginning makes it so hard to see narcissistic abuse while you're inside it
• How financial control can leave you with zero access to money after 16-plus years of marriage
• Why abuse often escalates after separation, and how narcissists weaponize the court system to keep control
• Dana's "meat hook" visual for refusing to take the bait when someone tries to trigger you
• The "false narratives" a narcissist installs in you, and how to spot the remote control they're still pushing
• Why keeping a written record of what actually happened can keep you sane when the doubt creeps back in

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and introducing high-conflict divorce coach Jackie Miller
• (01:40) The "frog in boiling water": love bombing, whirlwind courtship, and the devaluing stage
• (03:25) Financial abuse: 16.5 years married with her name on nothing
• (05:45) Filing for divorce, and the post-separation abuse that followed
• (07:38) Rock bottom: wandering the backyard in pajamas, unable to function
• (12:29) The covert mask: why friends and family don't see it
• (15:19) Smear campaigns, and how narcissists plant seeds early
• (21:37) The out-of-body epiphany: watching the manipulation from outside herself
• (22:37) Dana's "meat hook" visual for not engaging with triggers
• (24:13) The "false narratives" a narcissist installs, and the remote control they still push
• (28:47) Why writing down what happened protects you from self-doubt later
• (32:41) Where to find Jackie, her podcast, and her free guide

About Jackie Miller

Jackie Miller is a high-conflict divorce coach and post-separation abuse strategist who survived a 16.5-year emotionally, verbally, and financially abusive marriage and a two-and-a-half-year high-conflict divorce. She now brings both lived experience and expert strategy to women navigating the same fight, through her coaching practice and her podcast, Out of Crazy Town: Your Guide to Divorcing a Narcissist.

Learn more at jackiemillercoaching.com (her site also hosts her free guide on when to respond to a narcissist and when to ignore), or connect with her on LinkedIn. She's also on Instagram and TikTok as "Out of Crazy Town."

Favorite quotes "There is no amount of money in the world that justifies enduring abuse." —Jackie Miller "Congratulations, you've survived 100% of your worst days." —Jackie Miller "You are in a relationship with a master manipulator. It doesn't matter how smart you are, it doesn't matter how educated you are." —Jackie Miller Resources mentioned

• JackieMillerCoaching.com: Jackie's site, coaching info, blog, and her free guide on when to respond to a narcissist and when to ignore
• Jackie Miller on LinkedIn
• Out of Crazy Town: Your Guide to Divorcing a Narcissist, Jackie's podcast, also findable via her site
• "Out of Crazy Town" on Instagram and TikTok, Jackie's handles on both platforms

Related episodes

• Healing From Narcissistic Abuse: A deeper look at recovering identity and trust after a relationship like the one Jackie describes.
• Surviving Gaslighters and Manipulators: More on spotting the covert tactics Jackie names here before they escalate.
• Surviving Toxic Relationships: Interview with Shannon Petrovich: Another survivor's strategy for disengaging from a controlling partner.

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

Picture an 18-year-old walking into the office of the disability advisor at a college she'd already decided to skip, after a neuropsych test predicted she probably wouldn't succeed there, and asking: "What classes can you take with half a brain?" That's a true story, and it's how this episode on finding purpose in your biggest struggles gets going. It belongs to my guest Holly Kostrzewski, who sustained a traumatic brain injury at 18 in a car crash and had to relearn to walk, talk, and read from scratch, living back home with her parents until she was 29.

Holly is an international keynote speaker, consultant, and storyteller who has since inspired over a million people across the U.S., Canada, and New Zealand, and her story doesn't stop at one flame. Fourteen years after her injury, her dad became a paraplegic and she became his caretaker. Then, after 22 years as a public servant, she lost her federal job and had to figure out who she was without the title. Out of all three came her keynote "The Junk Drawer": the idea that everybody's got a drawer of stuff they're too ashamed to show anyone, and the good stuff is hiding right there next to the junk. We get into why shame keeps that drawer shut, my yard boundary metaphor for deciding who's earned the right to your "tender bits," and why "at least it's not cancer" might be the worst thing you can say to someone in pain.

If you've ever felt like less of a person because of a job, a diagnosis, or a body that doesn't work the way it used to, this one's for you.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r42BxvMjnsk

In this episode

• Why finding purpose in your biggest struggles starts with naming the flame that burned you down (Holly's "three burns" framework)
• The stubborn question that got Holly back into college after a neuropsych test said she probably wouldn't make it
• Why shame keeps your "junk drawer" shut, and what happens when you finally open it
• Dana's yard boundary metaphor for deciding who's earned the right to hear your "tender bits"
• Why "at least" comments shut down grief, and what to do instead
• How to tell if someone is a safe person for your hardest stuff before you hand it to them

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and introducing keynote speaker Holly Kostrzewski
• (01:51) The car crash at 18 and the coup-contrecoup brain injury
• (03:00) Relearning to walk, talk, and read, and failing therapy along the way
• (04:56) "What classes can you take with half a brain?"
• (09:31) Burn number two: her dad's fall and becoming a paraplegic
• (13:46) Burn number three: losing her federal job after 22 years
• (14:31) Building "The Junk Drawer" keynote
• (20:03) Why we hide our junk drawer: shame and "am I enough"
• (22:07) Dana's yard boundary metaphor and vetting people for your "tender bits"
• (26:19) The "at least" comments that shut down grief
• (31:14) Where to find Holly, and a plug for Mic Drop Club

About Holly Kostrzewski

Holly Kostrzewski is an international keynote speaker, consultant, and storyteller who has inspired over a million people across the United States, Canada, and New Zealand. A survivor of a traumatic brain injury at 18 and now caretaker to her paraplegic father, she built her signature keynote, "The Junk Drawer," around the idea that our hidden hard stuff is where real connection (and humor) actually live.

Learn more at hollyspeaks.live, or follow her on Instagram.

Favorite quotes "What classes can you take with half a brain?" —Holly Kostrzewski "Shame, I think, is one of the heaviest things to carry." —Holly Kostrzewski "You have to just remember you're more than any job and you're more than anything that happens to you." —Holly Kostrzewski Resources mentioned

• HollySpeaks.live: Holly's speaking site, home to her "Junk Drawer" keynote
• Holly Kostrzewski on Instagram
• Mic Drop Club, the women's public speaking group where Holly and Dana are both hosts
• Brené Brown's "empathy vs. sympathy" video, referenced by Dana

Related episodes

• How to Reclaim Your Power from Shame: More on the shame Holly describes carrying about her brain injury, and how to loosen its grip.
• Victory Over Quadruple Amputation: Interview with Wendy Wallace: Another rising-from-the-ashes story about rebuilding identity after catastrophic physical loss.
• Boundaries - Why Can't I Set Them?: A deeper dive into the yard metaphor Dana uses here to explain who earns the right to your "tender bits."

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

A gentle note before you dive in: this conversation touches on childhood suicidal ideation. It's okay to pause, skip ahead, or come back to this one another time.

There's an old horror-movie line: the call is coming from inside the house. That's basically the image trauma-informed healer Emma Lyons uses for what she calls the shame voice: not a wounded inner child that needs a hug, but an internalized narcissist wearing your abuser's exact strategies. Emma didn't see it clearly until she broke her leg in a motorbike accident and spent six months bed-bound or in a wheelchair, and her body started objecting to her mom's boundary violations before her brain caught up.

Emma is the founder of Trauma Matrix, where she helps women break up with the shame voice that's been sabotaging their success, relationships, and visibility. She studied law and international human rights before realizing that path "felt like a slow death," and later discovered she'd grown up the scapegoat of a covertly narcissistic mother. We get into what that childhood actually did to her nervous system, why she thinks even well-meaning therapists get "healthy shame" wrong, and the acronym she teaches clients for interrupting a shame spiral in real time.

If you've ever caught yourself agreeing with an insult nobody actually said out loud, this conversation names exactly what's happening, and gives you a way out.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EQIDmD81PM

In this episode

• Why the shame voice isn't your inner child, it's an internalized narcissist wearing your abuser's own tactics
• How growing up as the family scapegoat rewires your nervous system, and why "normal" doesn't mean "healthy"
• The physical wake-up call (a broken leg) that finally taught Emma her mom wasn't respecting her boundaries
• Emma's BREAK method for interrupting a shame spiral in real time: Break the trance, Refuse to engage, Expose the lie, Anchor your truth, Kick it out
• Why women are taught to shrink, and how that shame directly costs us in the workplace and in our paychecks
• How reclaiming your "shameless" starts with recognizing the voice was never trying to protect you

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and meet trauma-informed healer Emma Lyons
• (01:14) Leaving human rights law: "wading through sludge" and a quarter-life crisis
• (02:12) Discovering she was the scapegoat of a covertly narcissistic family system
• (04:39) The shame voice as an internalized narcissist, not an inner critic
• (08:28) The motorbike accident and broken leg that finally exposed her mom's boundary violations
• (11:31) "The call is coming from inside the house": when the external narcissist becomes internal
• (13:15) Why "healthy shame" is a lie, and how shame-based culture shows up everywhere
• (21:08) The BREAK method for interrupting a shame spiral
• (26:29) Why women struggle to feel safe being visible or paid what they're worth
• (33:04) Where to find Emma, and her free guide to breaking up with your inner narcissist

About Emma Lyons

Emma Lyons is a trauma-informed healer and founder of Trauma Matrix, where she helps women break up with the internalized shame voice that's been sabotaging their success, relationships, and visibility. She studied law and international human rights before leaving that career path to build her healing practice.

Follow her work on her Substack, Trauma Matrix, or connect on LinkedIn.

Favorite quotes "The real freedom comes from liberating ourselves from this inner narcissist that we've internalized, and then we become unshamable. We've got to reclaim our shameless." —Emma Lyons "Shame is not a normal emotion. It's not like rage or anxiety, you find something else underneath it. Under shame, there's more shame. It's never ending." —Emma Lyons "It's not your friend. It's not a critic. It's not a wounded child. It's a parasite." —Emma Lyons Resources mentioned

• Trauma Matrix: Emma's Substack
• Emma's free guide: 5 Signs It's Time to Break Up With Your Inner Narcissist
• Emma Lyons on LinkedIn
• Dr. Ramani's "DEEP" framework (don't defend, don't explain, don't engage, don't personalize), referenced by Emma when discussing how to respond to a narcissist
• The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz, mentioned by Dana

Related episodes

• The Hidden Tactics Narcissists Use to Control You: a direct companion piece to the narcissistic-family dynamics Emma describes here.
• Healing From Narcissistic Abuse: another guest's journey through the same territory.
• How to Trust Your Intuition After Trauma: more on rebuilding trust in yourself after a dysfunctional family system.

Subscribe & connect

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Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

A gentle note before you dive in: this conversation touches on suicide loss. It's okay to pause, skip ahead, or come back to this one another time.

Chris Gillen was born into what he calls "a family of professional victims." His dad could never own a decision: everything was somebody else's fault. That same pattern passed down to Chris's younger brother, who died by suicide at 34 after reaching a point where, in Chris's words, "the world was a villain" and there was no way out. That's the origin story behind what Chris now calls the Villain Trap: the ego in leadership that quietly sabotages companies, careers, and homes long before anyone notices it's happening.

Chris is a leadership advisor and former executive with over 30 years of experience helping companies navigate rapid growth, change, and internal conflict. In our conversation he breaks down why the Villain Trap isn't the leader who's yelling and throwing things, it's quiet: a leader gets feedback they don't like, and instead of sitting with it, they start building a case in their head for why the person giving it is "out to get them." We get into why ego makes that so hard to catch in yourself, and why he thinks humility has become a "dead skill set."

We also cover the generational collision happening in corporate America right now (Gen X holds 70 percent of global leadership roles, and younger workers are pushing back on the "butt in the seat, 6 a.m. to 6 p.m." model Gen X leaders are now enforcing), and why chasing KPIs over people quietly burns a culture down.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf9z8uJdKa4

In this episode

• Why ego, not incompetence, is usually what stops leaders from accepting accountability
• The "blame bubble": how a quiet leadership pattern turns a colleague into a villain in your head, without anyone ever raising their voice
• Why Chris says humility is a "dead skill set," and how chasing a polished image on social media works against real connection
• How ego in leadership shows up differently across generations, with Gen X now holding 70% of global leadership roles
• Why KPI-obsessed leadership burns people out, and what "coach, guide, develop, nurture" looks like instead
• The one accountability question Chris says has to come before any other: "what could I have done differently?"

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and meet leadership advisor Chris Gillen
• (01:24) Growing up in "a family of professional victims"
• (03:15) His brother's death at 34, and the moment the Villain Trap idea was born
• (06:42) Why ego stops us from accepting responsibility
• (09:42) The "blame bubble": how a leader quietly turns a colleague into the villain
• (14:25) Vulnerability, authenticity, and why "look at me" leadership backfires
• (20:45) Gen X holds 70% of global leadership: what that means for the generational shift underway
• (25:31) What happens when companies chase KPIs over people
• (29:44) Why Chris wrote The Villain Trap, and who needs to read it
• (34:21) The accountability question that has to come first

About Chris Gillen

Chris Gillen is a sought-after leadership advisor and former executive with over 30 years of experience helping companies navigate rapid growth, change, and internal conflict. He's worked with organizations ranging from lean startups to Fortune 100s, and is the author of The Villain Trap.

Learn more at TheVillainTrap.com, or connect with him on LinkedIn.

Favorite quotes "Accountability begins with, in any situation: what could I have done differently, before you can say what could you have done differently." —Chris Gillen "Vulnerability isn't weakness, it's strength. It's real strength." —Chris Gillen "The bigger the ego, the less humility that a person can have." —Chris Gillen Resources mentioned

• The Villain Trap, Chris's book, available in hardcover, Kindle, and Audible: TheVillainTrap.com
• Chris Gillen on LinkedIn

Related episodes

• How to Build a Workplace Culture That Lasts: another leadership conversation about what actually changes a company's culture from the inside.
• Stop Winging It: A Leader's Guide to Resilience: more on what it takes to lead well under pressure.
• The Path to Trauma-Informed Leadership: pairs naturally with Chris's take on leading with humility and self-awareness.

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz

In this episode, Dana is joined by Clay Moffat, an ex-Navy weapons tech turned behavioral coach and author of The Trust Trap. Clay offers a radical reframe on trust, arguing it isn't a character trait but a dynamic process of alignment that requires constant evaluation. He reveals why we are the "authors of our own pain" and how we unknowingly fall into the "trust trap" by creating a frozen mental image of others and ignoring real-time data. Clay breaks down the psychology of betrayal, arguing that the most significant betrayals are often the ones we commit against ourselves by ignoring our intuition.

Clay's Website The Trust Trap Book

Picture about a hundred picketers at a Toronto garbage strike, a private investigator filming the scene in case of trouble, and one woman walking straight into the middle of it wearing a homemade "Worm Away Your Garbage" T-shirt. That's Cathy Nesbitt, and it's just one chapter in twenty-three years of building a worm-composting business nobody asked for. By the end of our conversation, she'll also have taught me the actual science behind laughter yoga (yes, it's a real thing, and no, it doesn't involve any actual yoga).

Cathy is the founder of Cathy's Crawly Composters, Cathy's Sprouters, and Cathy's Laughter Club, a two-time TEDx speaker, and a health and wellness advocate with a psych degree who's endlessly curious about why people react to her ideas the way they do. We talk about the "ew, worms" comment she heard for the ten thousandth time in 2012, right before discovering laughter yoga changed how she thought about stress for good, and why she believes failure will always feel better than regret.

If you've ever sat on an idea because you were scared of what people would say, or you're just looking for a legitimate, science-backed way to defuse road rage, this one's for you.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGJIpfOcbPc

In this episode

• Why Cathy believes "failure will always feel better than regret," and how that mantra carried her through 23 years of a business people said was "gross"
• The wild story of confronting a union picket line to launch her worm-composting business, and the newspaper interview that came out of it
• What laughter yoga actually is (hint: it's not yoga), and the "DOSE" of feel-good brain chemicals it triggers
• Why you physically cannot be stressed and laughing at the same moment, and how Cathy uses laughter yoga behind the wheel to defuse road rage
• The boundary she wishes she'd set sooner: saying no to unpaid "exposure" events that drained her time for nothing
• Her advice for anyone sitting on a business idea because of what people might think

Timestamps

• (00:01) Welcome and meet Cathy Nesbitt, worm composting and Laughter Club founder
• (01:36) Twenty-three years of Cathy's Crawly Composters: the origin story
• (03:45) The real obstacle of a worm business (hint: it's not the worms)
• (11:21) The magic of worms: turning a ton of garbage into "black gold"
• (12:19) Quitting her job to write a six-month business plan
• (14:52) Confronting a Toronto garbage-strike picket line in her "Worm Away Your Garbage" shirt
• (18:14) Her first newspaper feature, and the same-day news that her husband was downsized
• (19:50) "Failure will always feel better than regret"
• (26:47) 2012: the "ew, worms" comment that nearly ended her mission, and discovering laughter yoga the very next day
• (28:19) What laughter yoga actually is, and the DOSE of feel-good brain chemicals it triggers
• (31:32) Using laughter yoga to defuse road rage
• (32:51) The boundary lesson: saying no to events that weren't the right fit

About Cathy Nesbitt

Cathy Nesbitt is a health and wellness advocate, the founder of Cathy's Crawly Composters (started in 2002), Cathy's Sprouters, and Cathy's Laughter Club, and a multi-award-winning environmental innovator and two-time TEDx speaker who's introduced worm composting and laughter yoga to more than 100,000 students through her workshops.

Connect with her on LinkedIn, or visit Cathy's Club to join her free Laughter Club, Tuesday mornings at 9:30 a.m. Eastern.

Favorite quotes "Failure is always going to feel better than regret." —Cathy Nesbitt "We're literally in charge of our own pharma. We get to decide happy, happy chemicals or stress hormones." —Cathy Nesbitt "Don't let people tell you what you're going to like it or dislike. Try it for yourself. You don't know." —Cathy Nesbitt Resources mentioned

• CathysClub.com: home to Cathy's free Laughter Club, Tuesday mornings 9:30 a.m. Eastern
• Cathy Nesbitt on LinkedIn

Related episodes

• Are You Avoiding Failure or Guaranteeing It?: dives deeper into the exact "failure vs. regret" tension Cathy lived out for 23 years.
• Entrepreneurial Success: Habits of a Maverick: another entrepreneur's take on pushing an unconventional idea forward.
• Overcoming Burnout, Hustle Culture, and Redefining Success: more on stress relief and redefining what success actually costs.

Subscribe & connect

If this episode gave you something to sit with, follow Phoenix and Flame so you never miss an episode: all apps in one place, or jump straight to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or YouTube. And if it moved you, leave a review; it's the easiest way to help another listener find the show.

Learn more about Phoenix and Flame, connect with Dana, and listen to more episodes here.

Curious where your own boundaries stand? Take my free Work Boundaries Quiz: danaskaggs.com/quiz