Plain Talk

When Andrea Rebson, a Bismarck citizen, came to the most recent session of the North Dakota Legislature, she had a deeply personal story to tell. She was sexually assaulted as a teenager and suffered years of harrowing mental health challenges afterward. Her issue, which she pursued at the Legislature, was with the statute of limitations for criminal and civil cases.

She wanted the law to give victims like her more time to come forward. And she made some progress on that issue, but on this episode of Plain Talk, she talks about her experiences in the legislative process, which weren't positive.

She says one lawmaker demeaned her, and misrepresented her arguments, and she's got the video and committee transcripts to prove it. She's even gone so far as to file an ethics complaint against a specific lawmaker.

She argues that, while the democratic process is going to create disagreements, naturally, the citizens shouldn't have to fear humiliation for engaging in the process.

Also on this episode, my co-host Ben Hanson and I discuss the on-going fight over control of the North Dakota Republican Party, which will come to a head next month, in June, when the party elects new leadership.

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"I just think it's cool," Sen. Kevin Cramer said on this episode of Plain Talk when asked about the possibility that Gov. Doug Burgum might run for the White House.

Would he support Burgum? Cramer demurred when asked. He said he's been courted by some of the GOP's 2024 players. "I haven't jumped on anyone's bandwagon yet," he said. "Doug gives me another reason to keep my powder dry."

"It would be hard not to back the hometown guy," Cramer added, though later in the interview he made it clear that his Senate colleague, Tim Scott from South Carolina, has inspired him. "The guy who could heal the nation is Tim Scott," Cramer said.

We also discussed the debate over carbon capture, which has created some strange bedfellows. Pro-fossil fuel advocates, who see carbon capture as a savior, are making common cause with environmentalists who want to decarbonize our economy, and they're facing off against climate change skeptics who don't see the need to capture carbon who are aligned with green energy advocates who want to see energy sources like coal driven from the marketplace.

It's "one bias versus another bias" Cramer told me. He says that while he's backed tax credits for carbon capture, he's worried about federal and state governments creating conflicting incentives. We subsidize green energy, and we subsidize carbon capture so that it can compete with green energy. Cramer says he'd rather see source-neutral policies. "Set whatever your standards he," he said, and then let the various energy producers compete.

Cramer also touched on some of Donald Trump's ongoing scandals, what possible outcomes we could see from debt ceiling negotiations, and what role permitting reform may play in that deal.

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Rupak Gandhi, the superintendent of Fargo's public school system, has said recently that his schools will ignore a new law governing pronoun policies and bathroom use by trans students. So far, North Dakota's other school districts aren't following his lead, and his stand isn't sitting well with the two leaders of North Dakota's legislature.

"What concerned me the most about his presentation...is there was an underlying sort of arrogance," Senate Majority Leader David Hogue, a Minot Republican, said on this episode of Plain Talk. He compared Gandhi to "educational leaders who think they can arm themselves with this compassion and this data and ignore the wishes of the parents."

For his part, House Majority Leader Mike Lefor, a Republican from Dickinson, referred to Gandhi's claims that the North Dakota law may violate federal statutes. He said he'd be interested in a conversation with Gandhi about that. "I'm not really sure what the major concerns are," he said.

Also, on this episode, Lefor and Hogue answered questions about the criticism this Legislature received (including from your humble correspondent) over a seeming obsession with transgender legislation and book bans, with Hogue specifically pushing back by arguing that the news media was a lot more focused on so-called culture war legislation than the Legislature was.

"Every session, there is a hot-button issue," he said, citing past legislative sessions when gun laws would take up much legislative time.

"We can walk and chew gum at the same time," he added.

Lefor said that when he was touring the state, campaigning to be elected majority leader, he didn't hear a lot about bills dealing with transgender issues. It "wasn't even in our top 10," he said. Lefor says he met with some of the freshman lawmakers who were pushing the bulk of the legislation to tell them, "we have too many bills." He also said that "working groups" aimed at finding ways to combine bills covering the same topics "will be a focus" for him going forward.

Speaking of which, in addition to covering topics such as the massive tax cuts bill lawmakers passed, both Hogue and Lefor said they would be seeking re-election to their leadership posts in the next legislative session, and that they would back every member of their respective caucus for re-election, despite a trend toward challenging incumbents with censures and primaries in some areas of the state.

Senator Karen Krebsbach, who has been in office since 1988, and is one of the most influential lawmakers in Bismarck, was recently censured by her local NDGOP district, with her district chairman denouncing her as a Democrat.

"We need to have more conversations than censures," Lefor said.

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Rep. Claire Cory led the charge for a school choice bill that ultimately passed both houses of the legislature. In its final form, it would have appropriated $10 million toward providing up to a $3,000 per-child subsidy for parents choosing private schools, as long as they were below 500 percent of the federal poverty level.

But Gov. Doug Burgum, despite having expressed support in the past for school choice legislation, vetoed the bill. On this episode of Plain Talk, Cory said she was "kind of disappointed in the governor's decision," though she added that she's "excited to work with the governor's office...to create a better bill" for future legislative sessions.

Also on this episode, co-host Ben Hanson and I talk about the nature of leadership in this populist age where many connotate public service as doing whatever the loudest voices say. From national politics, where Republican politicians and right-wing media outlets like Fox News are terrified of Donald Trump's movement, to local governments, where part-time elected leaders get bullied by angry crowds, can you really say you're leading if you're just following the mob?

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"We haven't made any decisions yet about 2024," Gov. Doug Burgum said on this episode of Plain Talk. "We did have a great time in Iowa."

His answer was in response to my question about whether Burgum is going to join the race for the White House next year. Back in March, I was the first to report that Burgum had been visiting Iowa, and apparently running polling there, but Burgum hasn't said yet whether he's running.

There are two things to take away from his answer on today's podcast.

The first, obviously, is that Burgum hasn't made a decision yet. Or, at least, not one he's going to share publicly. The other is that there is a possibility that he could launch a national campaign.

Though, if he doesn't, would he run for a third term as governor? Despite expressing support for term limits in the past? "I think term limits work best when they work uniformly," he said. He pointed out that the term limits amendment which passed on the November ballot last year doesn't apply to state to other executive branch offices.

"Governors can get termed out but other people can stay forever," he said, adding that certain "powerful lawmakers" can also stay in office for another eight years, as the amendment only started the clock ticking for current officeholders in January. "I support it," he said of the state's term limits amendment. "I don't think there's any value in applying it retroactively."

As for the just-completed legislative session, Burgum said he's still not sure how to handle a drafting error in the Office of Management and Budget bill that led to lawmakers passing the wrong version of the bill.

He did say there will be at least one more veto from his office coming concerning a bump in the formula for spending Legacy Fund revenues from the 7 percent he approved in a bill passed earlier in the session to 8 percent passed in "the wee hours of the last morning without any hearings or actuarial work."

Burgum also expressed some frustration with lawmakers over the number of duplicative "culture war" bills they sent him that made "national news about things that may or may not be important to most North Dakotans."

"They have 80 days and they have 81," he said, referring to the use this year of "fake" legislative days, "and still most of the most important business came at the end."

But Burgum also touted a laundry list of accomplishments from this session he's proud of, including a new women's prison, progress on a new state hospital, a massive tax relief package, and end to the state's defined-benefit pension for public workers, and more.

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Attorney General Drew Wrigley is still fired up about a bill to implement mandatory minimum sentences for certain crimes - that was later amended to "presumptive minimums" - which was defeated in the state House of Representatives.

There was controversy over how the bill was handled in committee and Wrigley's involvement in advocating for it, but on this episode of Plain Talk, Wrigley made it clear he is not backing down.

"I'm going to talk about this stuff publicly," he said, committing to a campaign during the interim before the next legislative session to promote this issue.

Wrigley said he wasn't intending to take a "personal swipe" at Rep. Shannon Roers Jones when he said her experience as a lawyer was strictly on the civil side of the law, though he added that the comment "was factual." He also took aim at some of his other legislative critics, including Rep. Landon Bahl, who he described as inexperienced - "it shows," Wrigley quipped - and Rep. Bernie Satrom, who he said was "slanderous" in his characterization of discussions about the bill.

Former House Minority Leader Josh Boschee also joined the program, and answered questions about why he's suddenly the former minority leader at the end of this legislative session when typically that sort of change in leadership happens at the beginning of the session.

Boschee said he felt it was time for his replacement, Rep. Zac Ista, to get experience in the role.

Boschee is up for re-election next year, and when asked if he'll seek another term, gave an answer that leaves some wiggle room. "I have every intention of running, but we'll see how things play out over the next year," he said, though he also joked that it was a poor question to ask a lawmaker just after the end of a grueling session.

Speaking of which, Boschee also gave some reflections on the just-concluded session, arguing that the Republican majority in the House didn't have good leadership. He said former Rep. Al Carlson, the majority leader when Boschee was first elected, would tell his caucus that they could only introduce so many controversial bills per session.

"He had control of his caucus," Boschee said.

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A debate over a bill to implement what supporters call "presumptive minimum" sentences for certain crimes like fleeing or assaulting an officer, or possessing a gun during a grime, has grown surprisingly contentious in the legislature.

There has been some bizarre procedural moves around the bill, including the chairman of the judiciary committee undermining his own committee's vote on the bill, and a war of words between state Rep. Shannon Roers Jones, a Fargo Republican, and Attorney General Drew Wrigley.

Wrigley has questioned Roers Jones' knowledge on criminal justice matters, while Roers Jones has accused Wrigley of inappropriately injecting a recent Bismarck case involving fleeing, and an officer-involved shooting, into a political debate.

"I'm not interested in a feud with the attorney general," Rep. Roers Jones said on this episode of Plain Talk.

My co-host Ben Hanson and I also questioned Roers Jones on her feelings about this legislative session. "I feel the least satisfied over all about this session," she said.

"On the whole I feel like we have spent entirely too much time and too much political capital on bills that impact tens of North Dakotans," she added, addressing legislation dealing with things like book bans and pronouns.

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Did you know there's such a thing as a fake legislative day?

Ok, maybe that's not the official term, but that colloquialism has grown up around a practice at the Legislature in Bismarck which sees lawmakers protracting their session despite the 80-day limit that's in Article IV of the state constitution.

You see, if the lawmakers don't gavel in for a floor session, they can still meet in their various committees, and still get paid, without the day counting against their limit.

Why are they doing this? And should they be allowed to? My co-host Ben Hanson and I discussed it on this episode of Plain Talk.

Also on this episode, Brian Lundeen, a Jamestown resident who is one of the organizers behind the effort to build the Bison World attraction in that city, talks about what the project needs from state lawmakers to make it happen.

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Russia's bloody invasion of Ukraine has displaced millions of Ukranians, most of whom need a place to go.

Meanwhile, North Dakota has a long-enduring workforce shortage that is felt most acutely in the state's oil fields.

Now, those two problems are coming together to form what is, if not a solution, is at least a way to mitigate some suffering while simultaneously creating some new opportunities.

Former Lt. Gov. Brent Sanford, who stepped down from Gov. Doug Burgum's administration late last year, is now the project manager of what North Dakota's oil industry has dubbed Bakken GROW. The acronym stands for Global Recruitment of Oilfield Workers, and it's precisely what it sounds like. A concerted effort to match Ukranians, who need an escape from their homelands, with jobs in North Dakota's oil industry.

"It's not only a workforce recruitment effort, it's a humanitarian effort too," Sanford said on this episode of Plain Talk.

"The United States is not good at legal immigration," he added, but hopes this program can make a difference. He says it will begin with Ukranians - there is already a sizable Ukranian community in western North Dakota, and he says they're reaching out to organizations like the Ukranian Catholic Church to help with the effort - but the hope is to target potential refugees and immigrants from other countries and ethnic backgrounds as well.

Also on this episode, state Rep. Corey Mock joined co-host Ben Hanson and I to talk about the ongoing debate over North Dakota's public worker pension. We disagreed a lot, but we did find some common ground around the idea that there are no easy solutions to this mess, and that a lot of the lawmakers in Bismarck on both sides of the debate are ignoring some pretty brutal fiscal realities.

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"When I'm in committee, when I'm speaking, nobody ever asks me any questions."

That's what Kristie Miller had to say on this episode of Plain Talk. She's the mother of a trans person and has become active in North Dakota politics opposing a legislative agenda in Bismarck she characterizes as an attack on the trans community.

The most frustrating aspect of that activism? How hard it is to even get some lawmakers to talk to her. "My experience is...when they found out I'm the mother of a trans child, they won't speak to me."

That experience isn't universal. Some lawmakers do speak with her. She credited House Majority Leader Mike Lefor, a Republican from Dickinson, with engaging, though she said that other lawmakers have been something less than pleasant to deal with. She described what she said was a rude interaction with Sen. Keith Boehm, a Republican from District 33 who primaried a Republican incumbent, Jessica Bell, over her vote to sustain Gov. Doug Burgum's veto of a transgender sports bill during the 2021 session.

She said that many Republican lawmakers are afraid of opposing the 21 bills dealing with transgender issues at the legislature. "There's a small group out there...when they found out a GOP member voted a certain way they verbally attack them," she said.

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