Do you think unsurpassably "classic" thought about the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, is from c. 370-460? In this paper, I argue that "Pro-Nicene" theology of that era does not show us Christians how to be self-consistent monotheists, while earlier catholic theologians like Tertullian and Origen (early 3rd c.) do show us how. The most classic source, of course, is the New Testament, which they can help us to see with fresh eyes. (Those thick Nicene goggles block a lot!)

In the fifth century, Christianity had the luxury of not competing with Islam. As I discuss in the paper, Muslims can make a simple, and at first glance compelling argument against Christian theology.

* A claim which strongly and steadily seems contradictory, unless it can be re-stated in a seemingly consistent way, probably is contradictory.

* Contradictory claims are false.

* Trinitarian theology strongly and steadily seems contradictory, and can’t be re-stated in a seemingly consistent way.

* Therefore, probably, trinitarian theology is false.     (1-3)

What to do? It seems we can't reasonably accept 4!

* We can't just loudly deny 4 - that is missing the point, as 1-3 support 4. This is to fail to "make your defense to anyone who demands from you an accounting for the hope that is in you... with gentleness and reverence." (1 Peter 3:15-6)

* Only a few foolhardy Protestants will deny 2. If this doesn't seem foolhardy to you, I recommend the sober discussion by Reformed analytic theologian Dr. James Anderson in this book, pp. 117-26.

* Only uber-sophisticates can concoct reasons for denying 1, which seems, in the end, more secure than their reasons. (Also, they constantly believe 1 in other contexts.) If you are such a sophisticate, I invite you to consider these arguments.

* 3 seems true at first glance, and on a second.

But in this paper, I show how Tertullian (d. c. 225) and particularly Origen (d. 254), show both Christians and Muslims why 3 should be denied. This is because, for all their speculations, Tertullian and Origen preserve elements of New Testament teaching which were later overwritten.

This podcast features the actual audio of my presentation at the theology conference discussed in episode 23. My thanks to the audience for their excellent questions and discussions during and after my session. They were a great group.

You can also listen to this episode on Stitcher or iTunes (please subscribe, rate, and review us in either or both – directions here). It is also available on YouTube (you can subscribe here). If you would like to upload audio feedback for possible inclusion in a future episode of this podcast,