Politics on the Couch

Rafael Behr talks to the Rt Hon. Liam Byrne, Labour MP for Birmingham Hodge Hill & Solihull North, Chair of the Commons Business & Trade Committee, former minister under Blair & Brown, and author of Why Populists Are Winning and How to Beat Them.

They cover:

• The "three chords" of populism — national renewal, nostalgia, and crisis. Liam breaks down the deep emotional structure behind every populist message, from Orbán to Farage.
• Why the economic conditions are ripe —
• The populist media machine
• Why Farage is different
• How the left fights back
• Taking aim at the "selfish minority"
• Why Liam is optimistic — the new generation of MPs who are "entrepreneurial, energetic, super smart, and deeply rooted in their communities.

Link to Liam's book.

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Rafael Behr talks to behavioural scientist Dr Michael Hallsworth about his new book, “The Hypocrisy Trap: How Changing What We Criticise Can Improve Our Lives.”

They discuss:

• How the concept of hypocrisy first emerged as part of an evolutionary status game; 
• How calling others out can be more powerful than proclaiming our own virtue; 
• Why we might tolerate some ‘polite’ hypocrisy at home but not in Westminster;
• How hypocrisy is an inescapable part of any ‘civilisation, according to Sigmund Freud;
• Should we be more discerning in the types we call out, but much tougher on the ‘double standards’ hypocrisy that corrodes trust, fairness and the basic promise that citizens stand equal before the law?

Dr Michael Hallsworth is Chief Behavioural Scientist at the Behavioural Insights Team (BIT) in the Americas, where he applies behavioural science to policy, organisational design and real‑world behavioural change. He describes himself as someone “helping people apply behavioural science to real‑world problems.” 

At BIT, Michael has led numerous projects spanning government and private sector domains, bridging rigorous academic research with operational behavioural insight. 

More information about Dr Michael Hallsworth and his new book:

https://www.michaelhallsworth.com

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Politics feels angrier, harsher and more tribal than it used to - but how much of the blame can be laid at the door of social media?

Rafael Behr talks to NYU Psychologist Professor Jay Van Bavel, about how our ancient group instincts collide with 'god-like' digital technology to distort what we see, reward outrage, and erode trust in democratic institutions. 

Drawing on datasets of millions of social media posts, Professor Van Bavel discusses how; a tiny minority can dominate the online political conversation; platforms can make people seem more extreme, and silence the moderate voices. He also discusses what can be done about it; from redesigning incentives and rebuilding solidarity across group lines; to the small, practical choices individuals can make to resist the pull of performative moral outrage.

Jay Van Bavel's professional website - with links to academic papers

https://www.jayvanbavel.com

Inside the funhouse mirror factory: How social media distorts perceptions of norms

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2352250X24001313

How to strengthen democracy

https://news.stanford.edu/stories/2022/08/how-to-strengthen-democracy

Heineken Advert

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3a8MdloAAM&themeRefresh=1

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Rafael Behr talks to Dr. Tessa Buchanan, a former civil servant and now an academic at Cambridge’s Political Psychology Lab, about the psychology behind changing how some voters think about outsiders or immigrants, revealing why she believes attitudes aren’t always as fixed or hostile as they may seem.

From the media’s obsession with “small boats” to conflicting anxieties about national identity, Rafael and Tessa discuss how easy is it to move public opinion, and so public policy, on a topic that has dominated political debate in the UK, EU and US for almost a decade.

Links to topics mentioned in the podcast

How an authoritarianism-compatible text changes British attitudes towards EU immigration

Study from Cambridge University Political Psychology Lab

2019 YouGov survey looking at EU immigration

2024 US survey pre-Presidential election

Cambridge University Political Psychology Lab

Podcasts mentioned

Rafael Behr and Karen Stenner

https://shows.acast.com/politicsonthecouch/episodes/theauthoritatianpersonalitywithkarenstenner

Rafael Behr and Dr Lee de-Wit

https://shows.acast.com/politicsonthecouch/episodes/theleftstroublewithconnectingwithsocialonservatives

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Rafael Behr talks to Demos' CEO Polly Curtis about the urgent case for upgrading our democracy and repairing the broken relationship between citizen and state.

The conversation is loosely based around this new Demos paper released today (2 July) that sets out the challenges of the global democratic emergency, how this is threatening the political landscape in Britain and what we can do about it.

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Host Rafael Behr is joined by political scientist Prof. Michael Bang Petersen, whose research challenges the common belief that those who share misinformation are simply uninformed or gullible.

Instead, Petersen suggest that many of these individuals are politically savvy and highly motivated, not by truth, but by the usefulness of information in advancing their political goals.

The conversation also explores the concept of the "need for chaos": a psychological drive found in a significant minority who actively seek to destabilise political systems, not just support one side over another.

Petersen also talks how status anxiety, feeling stuck or left behind in a rigid social hierarchy, fuels this destructive impulse.

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A conversation between Rafael Behr and writer and broadcaster David Aaronovitch, about ripples from the pandemic that still shape politics, with a digression on the ways that Britain is not America and whether that makes 'Maga-populism' less contagious.

Links

David Aaronovitch's substack - https://davidaaronovitch.substack.com

BBC's Briefing Room presented by David Aaronovitch - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002bj77

This is a Behr and Berman podcast production

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An anniversary episode in which host Rafael Behr and producer Philip Berman look back over a tumultuous time and ponder what they have learned from putting politics on the couch.

Links to Politics on the Couch episodes discussed in this podcast

Anti-vaxxers – fear, anxiety and the psychology of misinformation

The authoritarian personality - why some voters feel drawn to populism and how to lure them away 

The Madness of King Don - a journey to the dark side of charisma, with Drew Westen

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To coincide with the launch of her new book (The Ideological Brain - A Radical Science of Susceptible Minds) Rafael Behr talks to Dr Leor Zmigrod, a political psychologist and neuroscientist, about the ingredients of dogmatic thinking, why some of us are more prone than others, and how we can protect ourselves.

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Rafael Behr talks to Paula Surridge Professor of Political Sociology about the fragmentation of support for the two big parties since Brexit, what's causing it and what it means for parties trying to maintain their voter coalitions.

Questions also covered:

1. What drives support for Reform UK, and how vulnerable is their voter base?
2. Are the Liberal Democrats benefiting from tactical voting, and can they sustain their recent gains?
3. Why the Conservative Party faces so many difficulties in defining its identity?
4. How are changing media consumption habits and voter expectations reshaping political engagement?

The discussion also touches on the impact of non-voters and the potential for electoral reform to become a more prominent issue.

This is a Rafael Behr and Philip Berman production.

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