PRETEND

The sting is set. The bait is in place. Six skeptics are logged into a Zoom call, pretending to be grieving siblings. They've paid $1,400 for a private reading with a medium Susan Gerbic believes is a hot reader. Months of planning have led to this moment.

And then... the medium does something no one expected.

In the finale of this three-part series, we find out what happened to Operation Banana Cream Pie. Then, Susan shares recordings from other readings she's analyzed, walking us through what she believes is evidence of hot reading in action. We break down the techniques, examine the receipts, and let you decide what it all means.

Watch the full videos of Operation Banana Cream Pie on Susan Gerbic's YouTube page:

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcSfdioxwHQGkyFZ68maphdIJuYcb8xln

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Patreon supporter Christine Harnos (not the Star Trek actress, the other one) joins Javier to break down Part 2 of the "Didn't See It Coming" series before listening to the finale.

They get into the weeds on Susan Gerbic's sting setup: the Facebook accounts she's been maintaining for years, the fake obituary, the hog farm detail. If a psychic mentions pigs, you know something's up. They also discuss the difference between hot reading and cold reading, why "scientifically tested" doesn't mean what mediums want you to think it means, and the troubling relationship between psychic mediums and grief support organizations like Helping Parents Heal.

Christine also shares a strange, unexplainable moment from her own life involving her daughter and a daycare power outage.

Want more? Susan Gerbic documented the entire Operation Banana Cream Pie sting on her YouTube channel "Psychics Explained"—20+ videos of behind-the-scenes footage. Link in the show notes.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcSfdioxwHQGkyFZ68maphdIJuYcb8xln

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In Part 1, we watched skeptic Susan Gerbic dissect a celebrity psychic's cold reading techniques. But cold reading is the little leagues of the psychic industry. In Part 2, Susan sets her sights on something harder to catch... a hot reader.

Hot reading is when a psychic does their homework, researching their clients before the reading even starts. So Susan devises an elaborate sting: fake Facebook accounts, fake obituaries, fake family members, and $1,400 worth of bait designed to catch a medium in the act.

Six skeptics go undercover as grieving siblings. They don't know each other. They don't know the backstory. And they have no idea what's about to happen.

This episode takes you inside "Operation Banana Cream Pie." Let's just say, the moment the medium logs onto the Zoom call, no one saw it coming.

ABOUT SUSAN GERBIC:

Susan Gerbic is a Fellow of the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry and founder of Guerrilla Skepticism on Wikipedia, a group that has written over 2,000 Wikipedia articles on science and pseudoscience — viewed more than 200 million times. Her most famous investigation, "Operation Pizza Roll," was featured in The New York Times Magazine and exposed medium Thomas John's hot reading techniques. Susan runs the nonprofit About Time, which funds her ongoing psychic investigations.

Want more? Susan Gerbic documented the entire Operation Banana Cream Pie sting on her YouTube channel "Psychics Explained"—20+ videos of behind-the-scenes footage. Link in the show notes.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcSfdioxwHQGkyFZ68maphdIJuYcb8xln

LINKS & RESOURCES:

Susan Gerbic's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PsychicsExplained

About Time Project: https://www.abouttimeproject.org/

NYT Magazine feature on Operation Pizza Roll: https://archive.ph/20190226135004/https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/26/magazine/psychics-skeptics-facebook.html

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Longtime Patreon supporter Rebecca Catalfu joins Javier to unpack her firsthand experience going undercover at Matt Fraser's psychic readings.

Rebecca went into this investigation as a believer and came out the other side with a very different perspective. In this conversation, she and Javier break down the patterns they observed across multiple readings: the decision tree (grandparent, parent, or mystery), the "who is that to you?" fishing technique, the stop statements psychics use when they're not getting hits, and the emotional bell curve that takes grievers to rock bottom before lifting them back up with platitudes.

Rebecca also shares what it was like to make it into the virtual "panelist waiting room," the inconsistencies she noticed while analyzing readings for Susan's YouTube channel, and why she's most concerned about the predatory potential these readings pose to vulnerable people.

Plus: Javier attempts his own cold reading. It does not go well.

LINKS:

Susan Gerbic's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PsychicsExplained

Matt Fraser Playlist: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcSfdioxwHQGkyFZ68maphdIJuYcb8xln

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Skeptic Susan Gerbic invited PRETEND inside one of her psychic sting operations. In Part 1 of this three-part series, we go inside "Operation Gobble Gotcha," a Thanksgiving sting targeting celebrity psychic Matt Fraser. Susan and her team of volunteers infiltrate one of Matt's online group readings to observe his techniques in real time. What they witness isn't a connection to the other side. It's a technique called cold reading. And once you see it, you can't unsee it.

BINGE ALL THREE EPISODES:

Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/posts/didnt-see-it-2-147839354?utm_medium=clipboard_copy&utm_source=copyLink&utm_campaign=postshare_creator&utm_content=join_link

PRETEND+ on Apple Podcast:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/channel/pretend/id6443456985

ABOUT SUSAN GERBIC:

Susan Gerbic is a Fellow of the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry and founder of Guerrilla Skepticism on Wikipedia, a group that has written over 2,000 Wikipedia articles on science and pseudoscience — viewed more than 200 million times. Her most famous investigation, "Operation Pizza Roll," was featured in The New York Times Magazine and exposed medium Thomas John's hot reading techniques. Susan runs the nonprofit About Time, which funds her ongoing psychic investigations.

LINKS & RESOURCES:

Susan Gerbic's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PsychicsExplained

About Time Project: https://www.abouttimeproject.org/

NYT Magazine feature on Operation Pizza Roll: https://archive.ph/20190226135004/https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/26/magazine/psychics-skeptics-facebook.html

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PRETEND's first live YouTube AMA, co-hosted by Patreon supporter Katie Watson. The conversation covers listener questions about the making of PRETEND, behind-the-scenes stories, and what's coming next.

Highlights include: how Javier knows when a story is worth pursuing (hint: it's like fishing) and his techniques for getting interview subjects to let their guard down. He shares updates on past subjects including LaDonna and Frank Abagnale.

Looking ahead to 2026: Season 25 kicks off next week with psychic stings featuring undercover Patreon supporters. Also coming: State of Corruption (North Carolina), a caught-on-camera confessional, and a Word of Faith Fellowship update—the DA supposed to try the case is now on trial himself.

00:00 Intro

02:53 Katie's Podcast Journey

04:08 The Art of Storytelling

06:09 Balancing Bias in Journalism

07:49 Building Trust with Interviewees

13:33 Balancing Podcasting and Life

14:55 Ponzi Playbook & Criminal Conduct

17:22 Scariest Interview Subjects

20:08 LaDonna Updates

26:15 Red Flags and Trust

27:37 Telepathy Tapes

30:58 The Truth in Storytelling

34:36 Interview Techniques

37:20 Biggest Challenges in Podcasting

39:14 Balancing Truth and Twists

42:37 Family Reactions

44:11 Maintaining Neutrality

45:19 Dream Project: Speed Dial

46:56 What's Coming in 2026

50:06 Proudest Series

58:35 Word of Faith Update

01:03:33 Season 25 Announcement

Blind Dave (Katie's YouTube show "Only in the UK"): https://youtube.com/@blinddave88

Decoding the Unknown: https://youtube.com/@decodingtheunknown2373

The Greatest Hoax on Earth by Alan Logan: https://a.co/d/gIHDef2

ChaptersLinks

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A Montana oncologist allegedly treated patients for cancer they never had and made millions doing it. We're re-releasing our two-part investigation into Dr. Thomas Weiner, plus a brand new interview with whistleblower Dr. Randy Sasich on what's happened since. The medical board finally revoked Weiner's license, but criminal charges still loom, a wrongful death lawsuit is underway, and the broken system that enabled this hasn't changed.

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'Tis the season for true crime chaos! Hosts Kristen Seavey from Murder, She Told, Javier Leiva from PRETEND, and Shaun from Sins & Survivors join forces to explore Christmas crimes gone horribly wrong.

From a bath salts-fueled home decorator in suburban Ohio to a serial burglar stealing Robert De Niro's wrapped presents right from under his tree, these real-life Grinches prove that the holidays bring out the worst in some people. The hosts also dive into the disturbing case of postal workers who intercepted letters to Santa meant for underprivileged children...stealing laptops, iPads, and gift cards intended for kids in need.

But the main event is a fresh-off-the-press case from Bangor, Maine. When a couple woke up to find a stranger sleeping on their couch surrounded by their unwrapped Christmas presents. Police body cam footage reveals just how terrifying this "funny" story really was. 

Want to see the footage? 

https://youtube.com/shorts/XOBl40Ky6Dc

Murder, She Told: 

https://www.murdershetold.com/episodes/bertha-cote-1

PRETEND: https://open.spotify.com/show/2vaCjR7UvlN9aTIzW6kNCo?si=6c96588b93d04eb3

Sins & Survivors: https://open.spotify.com/show/1W2swCx9LP38sFY06294pB?si=4b64a4ba692a4025

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This bonus episode features Kim, a Patreon supporter who connected with the Matthew Fenner story...but not for the reasons you might expect.

Kim's been through the criminal justice system herself. She was prosecuted, sentenced, and spent two years in jail.

The conversation goes to some unexpected places. Kim discusses how small-town politics can impact a case in ways that seem backward.

We talk about what jail was really like, why she now advocates for criminal justice reform, how the FBI got involved with her ex-husband's January 6th case, and how Word of Faith Fellowship's political connections might reach all the way to the White House.

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This is part of a new series of listener conversations about recent episodes. Want to be part of it? Support PRETEND on Patreon or PRETEND+ on Apple Podcasts.

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What happens when the person responsible for prosecuting your case seems more interested in protecting your attackers? Matthew Fenner has been asking that question for eight years. After a 2017 mistrial in his assault case against Word of Faith Fellowship members, the judge ordered an immediate retrial. It never happened. Instead, DA Ted Bell granted delay after delay to the defendants while refusing to meet with Matthew, the victim. A gag order meant to last weeks stretched into years, silencing everyone involved and shielding WOFF from public scrutiny. Now Bell has suddenly scheduled the trial—during Matthew's critical medical residency interview. And when Matthew asked for a single accommodation after watching defendants receive years of them, Bell said no. Matthew's response? A legal petition alleging willful misconduct, political corruption, and conduct prejudicial to the administration of justice. He's asking the court to remove Bell from office entirely—or at minimum, remove him from this case.

This episode features parts 10 and 11 of The Prophet series, followed by an in-depth analysis of Matthew's petition. Stick around for an update at the end of the episode.

Listen to the entire Prophet series on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/4wvQwgTDC0XPEo5rkkW2Uj?si=2a9e6c9214e64b81

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