It is always a treat to talk with Harvey Mansfield—Harvey C. Mansfield Jr., the scholar of political philosophy. He has been on the faculty of Harvard University (his alma mater) since 1962. Today, he is a professor emeritus.

Many times, he has been my guest on Q&A. And he is again.

His new book is The Rise and Fall of Rational Control: The History of Modern Political Philosophy.

Opening question (mine): What is modern political philosophy? That is, when does it begin? It begins, says Professor Mansfield, with “Nick Machiavelli” (as he calls him, with a smile). Machiavelli advanced the idea of “rational control.”

And what is rational control? Professor Mansfield explains the concept and provides a few examples. When they put speed bumps in your neighborhood, instead of going door to door asking people to drive slowly and carefully? That’s rational control.

I ask Mansfield a range of questions, including this: “I assume you’ve read everything in your field—the ancient philosophers, the medieval ones, and the modern ones. But are there any gaps? Do you have a ‘lacuna,’ as Bill Buckley would say? Something you haven’t read but ought to?”

“Oh, look,” says Mansfield, “I’m not as widely read as some other people.” He tries to “go deep” with selected books, rather than to get a “glimpse” at everything. Just now, he is studying Swift: Gulliver’s Travels.

Another question: “When we’re young, we tend to have clear, strong opinions about things: about politics, philosophy, literature, music, and so on. But our views may shift as we grow and ripen. In the field of political philosophy, are there some who have gone up in your estimation and some who have gone down?”

Yes, says Mansfield. John Rawls has gone up. As for those who have gone down—Harvey graciously demurs.

One of his books is The Spirit of Liberalism (“liberalism” in the sense of “political freedom”). In our Q&A, we talk a bit about liberalism—its nature. Its strengths and weaknesses. Its durability and fragility. Mansfield is very canny on the subject.

You know where illiberalism holds sway? On our college campuses, too many of them.

In a Q&A with another regular guest, George F. Will, I asked, “Have you ever been starstruck by anyone?” Yes, he said—by Isaiah Berlin. Well, has Harvey C. Mansfield been starstruck by anyone? Yes—by Leo Strauss. For a year, he attended a weekly seminar with Strauss.

“Astonishing,” says Mansfield. “I’d never seen anyone so smart, and so knowing, and so impressive. It took all my powers to keep up with him, or to try to keep up with him. … That was the experience of my life, I would say.”

Toward the end of our podcast, we talk about novels and poetry. One genre that Mansfield reads is mysteries. They entail the importance of punishment. That’s not something you’re likely to hear about in political-science class, says Mansfield.

Among his authors are Agatha Christie, J. K. Rowling, and Joe Ide. The third of these is a cousin of Francis Fukuyama, the political philosopher.

By the way, does Professor Mansfield have a favorite Founder? Not really, but if he did, it would be Madison, paired with Hamilton—those two main authors of The Federalist. “That book is just so wonderful. It’s a joy to read, it lifts your mind.”

A talk with Mansfield is pretty joyous and mind-lifting itself. Our podcast had some technical difficulties—some delays, some “freezing.” It’s a little choppy. But it’s smooth enough, and I know you will enjoy.

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