On the Gist, Trump won't back down from accusing Joe Scarborough of murder.

In the interview, Mike talks to a water expert about how to manage a pandemic if too many people cannot wash their hands. Mary Grant, Director of Public Water for All, and a policy analyst on U.S. water utility privatization details which states have placed moratoriums on utility shutoffs, and which cities are setting examples for the rest of the country when it comes to access to clean and affordable water.

In the spiel, the smart cowards and courageous idiots.

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Podcast production by Daniel Schroeder and Margaret Kelley.

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