In this episode, Hizer Mir and Salman Sayyid continue the conversation with Professor Sherman Jackson, discussing his work on the Islamic secular, Islamic studies and the state. The second half of this special episode discusses religious pluralism, the modern state and the secular, and the relationship between Sharia and the political. Sherman Jackson holds the King Faisal Chair in Islamic Thought and Culture at the University of Southern California, where he is also Professor of Religion and of American Studies and Ethnicity.