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The gap between how work is imagined and how work actually happens sits at the heart of our most persistent safety challenges. In this illuminating conversation with Professor Todd Conklin, we explore how Human and Organizational Performance (HOP) has evolved from its origins in high-consequence industries to become a powerful framework for understanding and improving safety across sectors.

Conklin traces HOP's development as a response to the limitations of behavioral-based safety approaches, explaining why scared people don't take scary jobs and how high-risk environments require systems thinking rather than worker-focused interventions. The discussion reveals a fundamental shift: redefining safety not as the absence of harm but as a capacity organizations actively build.

Perhaps most striking is the transformation in how we view workers' roles. "The worker is not the problem," Conklin emphasizes. "The worker is the problem solver." This perspective upends traditional safety management by recognizing that expertise exists at every level of an organization, and that workers constantly adapt to hold together imperfect systems.

Pre-Accident Investigation Podcast

Todd Conklin on LinkedIn 

John R. Boyd's Conceptual Spiral was originally titled No Way Out. In his own words: 

“There is no way out unless we can eliminate the features just cited. Since we don’t know how to do this, we must continue the whirl of reorientation…”

March 25, 2025

Flow Learning Lab

Find us on X. @NoWayOutcast
Substack: The Whirl of ReOrientation

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