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The gap between how work is imagined and how work actually happens sits at the heart of our most persistent safety challenges. In this illuminating conversation with Professor Todd Conklin, we explore how Human and Organizational Performance (HOP) has evolved from its origins in high-consequence industries to become a powerful framework for understanding and improving safety across sectors.
Conklin traces HOP's development as a response to the limitations of behavioral-based safety approaches, explaining why scared people don't take scary jobs and how high-risk environments require systems thinking rather than worker-focused interventions. The discussion reveals a fundamental shift: redefining safety not as the absence of harm but as a capacity organizations actively build.
Perhaps most striking is the transformation in how we view workers' roles. "The worker is not the problem," Conklin emphasizes. "The worker is the problem solver." This perspective upends traditional safety management by recognizing that expertise exists at every level of an organization, and that workers constantly adapt to hold together imperfect systems.
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Want to develop your organization’s capacity for free and independent action (Organic Success)? Learn more and follow us at:
https://www.aglx.com/
https://www.youtube.com/@AGLXConsulting
https://www.linkedin.com/company/aglx-consulting-llc/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/briandrivera
https://www.linkedin.com/in/markjmcgrath1
https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevemccrone
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The No Bell Podcast Episode 24
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Send us a text
The gap between how work is imagined and how work actually happens sits at the heart of our most persistent safety challenges. In this illuminating conversation with Professor Todd Conklin, we explore how Human and Organizational Performance (HOP) has evolved from its origins in high-consequence industries to become a powerful framework for understanding and improving safety across sectors.
Conklin traces HOP's development as a response to the limitations of behavioral-based safety approaches, explaining why scared people don't take scary jobs and how high-risk environments require systems thinking rather than worker-focused interventions. The discussion reveals a fundamental shift: redefining safety not as the absence of harm but as a capacity organizations actively build.
Perhaps most striking is the transformation in how we view workers' roles. "The worker is not the problem," Conklin emphasizes. "The worker is the problem solver." This perspective upends traditional safety management by recognizing that expertise exists at every level of an organization, and that workers constantly adapt to hold together imperfect systems.
Pre-Accident Investigation Podcast
Todd Conklin on LinkedIn
NWO Intro with Boyd
March 25, 2025
Flow Learning Lab
Find us on X. @NoWayOutcast
Substack: The Whirl of ReOrientation
Want to develop your organization’s capacity for free and independent action (Organic Success)? Learn more and follow us at:
https://www.aglx.com/
https://www.youtube.com/@AGLXConsulting
https://www.linkedin.com/company/aglx-consulting-llc/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/briandrivera
https://www.linkedin.com/in/markjmcgrath1
https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevemccrone
Stay in the Loop. Don't have time to listen to the podcast? Want to make some snowmobiles? Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to receive deeper insights on current and past episodes.
Recent podcasts where you’ll also find Mark and Ponch:
The No Bell Podcast Episode 24
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