RIMScast

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews Mark Romig about a wide variety of topics, including International Podcast Day, September 30th, Mark's journey as an NFL announcer for the New Orleans Saints, having picked it up from his father Jerry, who announced for 44 years without missing a game, and facts about the great City of New Orleans and its deep and rich history, including Cajun culture and cuisine. RISKWORLD 2027 will be held in April in New Orleans. Mark shares tips on food to enjoy and culture to experience in the city. Mark offers his opinions about the ISO 31000 risk framework and its adaptability and flexibility across industries. He shares his insights on hosting a podcast and letting guests tell their stories.

Listen for Mark's observations on what makes a great risk manager.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.

[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. This is our special International Podcast Day episode. We are delighted to be joined by Mr. Mark Romig.

[:38] Mark calls the games for the New Orleans Saints and is the host of The Mark Romig Show, which you can find on the Love NOLATV channel on YouTube.

[:47] Ahead of RISKWORLD 2027, being held in his hometown of New Orleans, we will discuss local cuisine, why New Orleans is such a great place for RISKWORLD, and his ERM philosophies. But first…

[:59] Webinars: On October 1st, Brown and Brown make their RIMS Webinars debut by discussing "The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Think about Now."

[1:12] Global Risk Consultants will return on October 8th to present "The 2027 Risk Agenda: 10 Engineering Priorities Risk Leaders Should Act on Now."

[1:22] On Oct. 15, Verisk Maplecroft will lead the session "Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight."

[1:31] On Oct. 22, Zurich returns to tell us all about "Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders."

[1:42] Origami Risk returns on October 29th to present "Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Portfolios Require."

[1:51] On Nov. 5th, Riskonnect returns to deliver the session "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics." Visit RIMS.org/Webinars to register.

[2:01] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!

[2:19] RISKWORLD 2027 will be held in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st. Registration opens on November 4th. Visit RIMS.org/RISKWORLD to register.

[2:32] Our guest today is one of the top ambassadors of New Orleans. I'm talking about Mark Romig, best known as the announcer for the New Orleans Saints. He does the play-by-play, and as you will hear from this International Podcasting Day episode, he's got the broadcasting voice.

[2:51] We will discuss why New Orleans is a perfect location for RISKWORLD 2027 and how RISKWORLD attendees should prepare for such a fantastic destination. We will discuss Mark's broadcasting legacy and what it takes to host his show, and his interview style and methods.

[3:12] We're going to learn about his risk management philosophies. It's all going to be in this episode of RIMScast. Justin explains that this episode was recorded at lunch at Louisiana Joe's, in Oceanside, New York, dining Cajun to get into the spirit of RISKWORLD 2027.

[3:45] First, Mark has a special thank you: "I want to thank the great folks at Louisiana Joe's for hosting Justin today, and I'll have to put my order in. Do you all do take-out?"

[4:00] Interview! Live from Oceanside, New York, Mark Romig. Welcome to RIMScast!

[4:16] Justin is recording from his favorite restaurant, Louisiana Joe's, in Oceanside, New York. He has the St. Charles Chicken Sandwich. Mark would like to reach through the screen and take some to New Orleans. Justin says this is a hopping place. It's great!

[5:03] Mark says he will be at RISKWORLD 2027 in New Orleans. Mark suggests meeting Justin there at one of the many New Orleans restaurants.

[5:37] Mark's father, Jerry Romig, was in broadcasting for many years. He became well known in the community by being the Saints announcer for 44 years inside the Superdome and before that at the Tulane Stadium. He never missed a game for 446 consecutive games.

[6:21] Mark picked it up after his father retired in 2013, so this is his 14th season with the Saints in the Superdome. There has been a Romig voice in the stadium for 58 years. Jerry and Mark both have a deviated septum that gives them the same tonal quality.

[6:54] Mark emulates Jerry's first-down calls. That's his homage to his Dad, to keep that same call going.

[7:54] Mark says there are many aspects of New Orleans that appeal to everyone. He believes that it is the center of culture in this part of the world for history, music, food, and architecture. New Orleans is very walkable. Everything is concentrated. You don't need to take long bus rides.

[8:34] Mark says, once you're in the central core of New Orleans, everything is within walking distance. The Morial Convention Center, where RISKWORLD will be, is right along the Great Mississippi Riverfront.

[8:51] Mark says New Orleans has hundreds of great restaurants and over 40 museums, including the National World War II Museum. People come for important meetings like RISKWORLD or just to come on vacation.

[9:30] Mark says the Morial Center has recently completed upgrades and renovations for over $600 million. It is one of the larger meeting facilities in the U.S. [9:49] We keep saying, "New Orleans is built to host. We have all the technology. We have all the services. We have all the things that make a meeting complete in one place. It's very much a walkable city."

[10:18] Mark says New Orleans is charming. It's very hospitable. It's not uncommon to be walking down the street, and you may not know the person walking toward you, but that person's going to say, "How's your Mama?" or "How are you doing?" or "Good morning."

[10:31] Mark says we just enter into conversations with strangers because we're a very welcoming type of community. Everyone is welcome here.

[11:03] Mark talks about what you should be looking for on a menu in New Orleans. Red beans and rice is a staple, with sausage or ham, and the spices that go into it.

[11:25] Look for Creole foods like shrimp etouffee, crawfish etouffee, fresh seafood like trout, redfish, or any one of the great delicacies coming out of the Gulf, boiled, baked, sauteed, or fried. We have oyster soup, fried oysters, and charbroiled oysters.

[12:05] Mark says, "I'm making myself hungry now, watching you eat and thinking about food! As soon as this interview is over, I'm going out to have lunch." Justin says he's never had Louisiana-style oysters, but he will.

[12:34] Justin says RISKWORLD has a lot of international attendees, and RIMS has a very sizeable Canadian membership. Justin asks about the connection between French-Canadian Acadians and Louisiana's Cajun culture.

[12:54] Mark says a very important group of Canadians migrated down into Louisiana over 100 years ago from the Nova Scotia area and settled in the Southwest area of Louisiana. Many Louisianians take regular trips back to Canada to see family members still living there.

[13:28] There are parts of Louisiana that still speak Canadian French. It's a community outside of Canada that Louisiana has become to Canada. We love our Canadian visitors, and we look forward to hosting them.

[13:52] Mark says we have a strong French Consul General here. He mentions the Louisiana CODOFIL Program, which teaches students French in many Louisiana schools.

[14:16] Mark says the Cajun French has its own culture and its own joie de vivre, as well as its own food creations. Louisiana is one of the most international states in the U.S.

[14:52] Mark says you should not leave New Orleans without having café au lait and beignets. There are many places you can find those.

[15:00] You probably will want to try them at Café du Monde, right off of Jackson Square, along the Mississippi River. Get your order and then go sit by the river and watch that river traffic. It's a magnificent way to experience the Mississippi River.

[15:34] Mark says Jackson Square is the most historic part of New Orleans, with the St. Louis Cathedral, the second-oldest basilica in the U.S.

[15:44] Justin has been to Café du Monde, and he suggests you will need to build in some time for standing in line. Mark says the line moves pretty fast. He also says don't wear dark-colored clothing because the powdery sugar tends to go everywhere.

[16:07] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026. The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and this is a last call for registration!

[16:23] Visit RIMSWesternRegional.com and the link in this episode's show notes for more information.

[16:29] Save the dates: October 18th through the 21st. In Quebec City, we will be hosting the 50th Annual RIMS Canada Conference. Visit RIMSCanadaConference.ca for more information.

[16:42] Also, remember to check out RIMS.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, with a new episode every month.

[16:51] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit RIMS.org/ERM2026.

[17:06] Let's Return to Our Interview with the Host of the Mark Romig Show, Mark Romig!

[17:21] This episode is coming out just before International Podcast Day, September 30th. Mark is a podcast host. This is the second RIMScast official International Podcast Day episode. Justin says, we're very glad that Mark is here.

[17:51] Justin asks how Mark puts his own stamp on announcing sports. Mark says you develop a certain way of bringing the fans into the game by punching certain calls. In calling the Saints games in the Superdome, the NFL allows the hometown announcer to punch certain things.

[18:13] Mark says he is a fan, but he has to be somewhat neutral. He took what his Dad did for 44 years, and he built on some of his calls. That was important. He has a couple of calls he developed himself. He thinks of his Dad as the GOAT, and he's keeping the seat warm.

[18:48] Mark says his Dad would do the voice at home, talking about what happened at the game. He was on the local NBC affiliate for many years and developed his own tone. Mark says, even though we're from New Orleans, hearing his television voice a lot affected how we speak.

[19:21] Mark says, depending on what party he's at, he might kind of drift into a New Orleans accent, but at the stadium or on his podcast, he uses the voice you hear now.

[19:40] Justin says he often hosts the podcasts in the confines of his home, but when his kids hear him using the RIMScast voice, they tell him to stop doing the RIMScast voice. They hear it and think he's about to get angry. Mark leaves his voice at the Dome.

[20:37] Mark is also the stadium voice for the Bayou Classic and the All-State Sugar Bowl. He has his podcast, the Mark Romig Show, on the LoveNOLATV YouTube channel. Mark has had guests Bryan Batt from Mad Men, Coach Kellen Moore from the Saints, and other personalities.

[21:29] Mark says we try to keep things on the positive side and talk about current events people can participate in. He says we try to uplift in our show. Justin talks about Mark's mother appearing on the show. Justin says the show promotes goodwill.

[22:22] Mark says we're doing it on a regional basis. They were picked up by the Gulf Coast Sports & Entertainment Network, reaching an audience along the Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama Gulf Coast.

[22:53] Justin talks about eating lunch and says the restaurant, Louisiana Joe's, is always hopping. As far as Justin knows, it's the only Cajun sandwich shop around him. There are a couple of crab places, but they don't hold a candle to Louisiana Joe's.

[23:44] Speaking of his podcast, Mark says if you bring on the right personality, you let them tell their story. Mark tries to minimize his involvement to give them time to speak about themselves and what makes them tick. He seeds a small question and lets them take it from there.

[24:16] Mark says he's learning so much. It's like going back to school when he's talking to these wonderful individuals about their work and their passion for what they do, giving them the space to be who they are.

[24:33] Mark looks at it as storytelling. In his tourism work, Mark tells the story. On his podcast, he enjoys his guests telling their stories.

[24:50] Justin said he had to learn early on to ask an open-ended question and just hang back and let the person open up a bit. Justin doesn't ask hard-hitting questions about current events; he asks about risk management.

[25:15] Mark says what RIMScast does is so important to the industry. It builds comfort so people can continue in their business and know they will be taken care of if anything should happen.

[25:31] Mark says in storytelling, people can find a lot in common if they just listen to people and understand where they're coming from. If I can build bridges, that's the key.

[25:45] Sponsorships! You can sponsor a RIMScast episode for this, our weekly show, or a dedicated episode. RIMScast is proud of its longstanding relationships with AXA XL, Global Risk Consultants, Alliant, Zurich, and more.

[26:06] Links to many of these episodes are in the show notes. RIMScast sponsorships can be bundled with whitepapers and webinar sponsorships.

[26:14] RIMScast has a global audience of risk and insurance professionals, legal professionals, students, business leaders, C-Suite executives, and more. Let's collaborate and help you reach them!

[26:27] Reach out to Ted Donovan at [email protected] or reach out to Sales at [email protected]. Let's find the best opportunity for you and your organization.

[26:39] Let's Return to Our Interview with Mark Romig!

[26:49] Justin turns the conversation to risk management. He asks Mark which framework he would recommend, between the COSO Enterprise Risk Management Framework, the ISO 31000 Framework, or ISO standards, generally.

[27:14] Mark would lean toward ISO 31000 because of its flexibility and its applicability across different types of organizations and risk environments.

[27:25] Mark says he likes that it provides the principles and a framework for integrating risk management into decision-making without being overly prescriptive about how an organization must implement it.

[27:37] Mark says that adaptability is particularly valuable because effective risk management must reflect an organization's strategy, culture, and specific risk profile.

[27:50] Justin says he finds that answer incredibly insightful and he had no idea Mark was so well-versed in risk management.

[28:01] Mark says, "Because we love RIMS so much, I am reading up and ready." Justin suspects Mark of tearing into the RIMS whitepapers at RIMS.org/RiskKnowledge. Mark says, "Gary LaBranche is a good teacher; let me just tell you that."

[28:18] Mark is friends with RIMS CEO Gary LaBranche. In the 1990s, they both served on the International Board of Tau Kappa Epsilon, a collegiate fraternity founded in 1899. They served as International Chairman of the Board of Directors of Tau Kappa Epsilon

[28:50] Mark and Gary remained friends. Mark saw him last month in New Orleans at the international conclave for Tau Kappa Epsilon. They toasted their friendship.

[29:09] Justin says he saw Gary the night before this recording at the Spencer Funding Their Future Gala at the Waldorf Astoria in New York City.

[29:26] Justin asks Mark how viable ISO 31000 remains as a Framework for organizations looking to establish a consistent enterprise-wide approach to risk management.

[29:41] Mark says ISO 31000 remains highly viable because it provides organizations with a common language and principles for thinking about risk but without prescribing a one-size-fits-all methodology.

[29:55] Mark says its real value is in helping risk management become integrated into decision-making and organizational processes, rather than functioning as a stand-alone exercise.

[30:06] Mark says the framework gives organizations a strong foundation while still allowing them to adapt their approach to their own strategy, their own culture, and their own risk environment. Justin agrees. Mark stresses adaptability and flexibility.

[30:54] Mark says the strongest risk professionals need a combination of analytical skills, business acumen, and communication skills.

[31:08] You have to be able to understand complex risks, then you have to translate them into language that business leaders can act on, and then build relationships across an organization so that risk management becomes part of everyday decision-making.

[31:26] Mark says, most importantly, you need curiosity. You have to keep learning. The environment changes all the time. The risk landscape is constantly changing. Keep asking the questions.

[32:07] Mark reads the newspaper every day. He's curious about not only what's happening in New Orleans and Louisiana, but also what's happening around the world. That allows him to communicate better when he's speaking with someone he's just met or someone in his office.

[32:25] Mark reads the newspaper for his own edification. He likes being in the know. He says a good risk manager is a curious person.

[32:55] Mark talks about risk management for the Saints. You start with the Senior Vice President of Finance, responsible for the safety and welfare of the business enterprise.

[33:18] The General Manager, Mickey Loomis, is concerned about the risk of the entire organization, as is the President of the organization, Dennis Lauscha, and Mrs. Benson, the owner. It's her club. It's her asset, and she's always concerned about the risks that are involved.

[33:38] The Assistant Equipment Manager makes sure that the equipment is in the best shape possible. And the Trainers; everyone has a role in the risk enterprise. Everyone should be aware that what they do affects the health and safety of the entire organization.

[34:03] Walt Leger, President and CEO, New Orleans & Company, is the uber risk manager. A lot of people have the responsibility. It all flows up to the top person, the President and CEO.

[34:29] Everyone needs to be aware of where they fit in the risk equation and do their jobs and lessen the risk.

[34:42] Justin says this has been one of my favorite episodes: International Podcast Day, with Mark Romig.

[34:54] Mark says about attending RISKWORLD 2027: I would ask people to do a little reading ahead. Those who have been to New Orleans know our deep history and the rich culture. If it's your first time, go to NewOrleans.com. It's a good one-stop shop for things about New Orleans.

[35:24] Mark says, read up on our musicians and our history, the architecture, and know that New Orleans is looking forward to welcoming RIMS back here. It's so important to our community to have you here. It's going to be a great, great session.

[35:43] Special thanks to the voice of the New Orleans Saints, Mr. Mark Romig, for joining us here on RIMScast for a very special International Podcast Day episode! I look forward to seeing him at RISKWORLD 2027.

[35:58] Check out the Mark Romig Show on @LoveNOLATV on YouTube. If you happen to attend a Saints game, tell Mark that you heard him here on RIMScast.

[36:07] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email [email protected] for more information.

[36:26] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[36:42] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.

[36:56] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at [email protected].

[37:08] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!

Links:

RIMS Western Regional Conference — Oct. 4‒7, 2026 | Seattle, WA | Register Today.

RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | www.rimscanadaconference.ca | Sponsorship Opportunities Available

RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | www.rims.org/ERM2026

RISKWORLD 2027 Registration

RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live — Watch the new video with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau.

The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center

RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management

Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines.

RIMS Now

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan!

RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council

RIMS-CRMP Stories

RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy

RIMScast on YouTube!

RIMS Risk Management magazine | Contribute | Q2 2026 Issue Now Available

Sponsor RIMScast — [email protected]

Louisiana Joe's

Mark Romig Show | LoveNolaTV

Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops:

Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule

See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops

Upcoming RIMS Webinars:

RIMS.org/Webinars

"The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Be Thinking About Now" | Sponsored by Brown & Brown | Oct. 1, 2026

"The 2027 Risk Agenda: 10 Engineering Priorities Risk Leaders Should Act on Now" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants | Oct. 8, 2026

"Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight" | Sponsored by Verisk Maplecroft | Oct. 15, 2026

"Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders" | Sponsored by Zurich | Oct. 22, 2026

"Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Risk Portfolios Require" | Sponsored by Origami Risk | Oct. 29, 2026

"Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics" | Sponsored by Riskonnect | Nov. 5, 2026

"RIMS Advocacy Presents: Terrorism Risk Insurance Act and Program: An Update on Federal Developments" | Nov. 10, 2026

Related RIMScast Episodes:

"Broadcasting Captive Wisdom with James Swanke"

"Risk and Leadership Patterns with Super Bowl Champion Ryan Harris"

"Opening Windows of Tolerance with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau"

"Sports, Spotlight, and Risk Leadership with Rich Lenkov, Founder and CEO of SERMA"

Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:

"48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before A Hurricane Strikes" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company (New!)

"AI-Scale, Risk Ready: Engineering Controls for the New Data Center Boom" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Facing Into Risk: Navigating the New Risk Landscape" (New!) | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Secondary Perils, Major Risks: The New Face of Weather-Related Challenges" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"The ART of Risk: Rethinking Risk Through Insight, Design, and Innovation" | Sponsored by Alliant

"Mastering ERM: Leveraging Internal and External Risk Factors" | Sponsored by Diligent

"Cyberrisk: Preparing Beyond 2025" | Sponsored by Alliant

"The New Reality of Risk Engineering: From Code Compliance to Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Change Management: AI's Role in Loss Control and Property Insurance" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Demystifying Multinational Fronting Insurance Programs" | Sponsored by Zurich

"Understanding Third-Party Litigation Funding" | Sponsored by Zurich

"What Risk Managers Can Learn From School Shootings" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Simplifying the Challenges of OSHA Recordkeeping" | Sponsored by Medcor

"How Insurance Builds Resilience Against an Active Assailant Attack" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Third-Party and Cyber Risk Management Tips" | Sponsored by Alliant

RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community!

RIMS Virtual Workshops

On-Demand Webinars

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy

RIMS Strategic & Enterprise Risk Center

RIMS-CRMP Stories — Featuring RIMS President Manny Padilla!

RIMS Events, Education, and Services:

RIMS Risk Maturity Model®

Sponsor RIMScast: Contact [email protected] or [email protected] for more information.

Want to Learn More?

Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org, and listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

Have a question or suggestion? Email: [email protected].

Join the Conversation!

Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.

About our guest: Mark Romig, Announcer, New Orleans Saints

Host: The Mark Romig Show, LoveNolaTV (YouTube)

Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews Roy Hock about "Future-proofing" a risk program and what it means. They discuss energy awareness and its importance, especially for an energy company. Roy tells of the insurance career journey that led him to Valero. He explains some of the products Valero provides. Roy tells how his Risk team mitigates risk for Valero. He explains how he manages Valero's captive insurance company. More than ever, there are regulatory risks that need to be mitigated where possible.

Roy speaks of the South Texas RIMS Chapter and its engagement programs, including a shooting event and golf events.

Listen for Roy's advice for young risk professionals who want to become strategic risk leaders over the next 10 years.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.

[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. Our topics are energy awareness and future-proofing a risk program. Our guest is Roy Hock, Director of Risk Finance & Casualty Insurance at Valero. But first…

[:45] RIMS-CRMP: RIMS Certification Week will be held from September 21st through the 25th. The week is a global celebration of the RIMS Certified Risk Management Professional certification.

[:57] It is a virtual event for you to learn about the certification, how it can strengthen your career and organization, and to understand how the RIMS-CRMP is shaping the future of risk management.

[1:07] A link to Certification Week is in this episode's show notes. You can also find it at RIMS.org/Webinars.

[1:14] Webinars: There are lots more RIMS Webinars coming up. On October 1st, Brown and Brown make their RIMS Webinars debut by discussing "The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Think about Now."

[1:27] Global Risk Consultants will return on October 8th to present "The 2027 Risk Agenda: 10 Engineering Priorities Risk Leaders Should Act on Now".

[1:37] On Oct. 15, Verisk Maplecroft will lead the session "Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight".

[1:46] On Oct. 22, Zurich returns to tell us all about "Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders".

[1:57] Origami Risk returns on October 29th to present "Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Portfolios Require".

[2:06] On Nov. 5th, Riskonnect returns to deliver the session "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics". Visit RIMS.org/Webinars to register.

[2:17] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!

[2:36] On with the Show! Our guest today is Roy Hock, the Director of Risk Finance & Casualty Insurance at Valero, one of the world's largest oil refineries. We will discuss what it takes to future-proof Valero's risk program, and we will discuss Energy Awareness Month in October.

[3:08] You may know Roy from his presence in the RIMS Houston Chapter. He is a former president of that chapter, and you probably saw him at the RIMS Texas Regional in 2026.

[3:23] Announcement: The speaker's views are his own, and not necessarily the views of Valero.

[3:29] I'm looking forward to hearing how he manages risk for Valero, so let's get to it!

[3:34] Interview! Roy Hock, welcome to RIMScast!

[3:48] Roy started working for an insurance company right out of school. Most of his career has been in Houston. For the last six years, he has been in San Antonio at Valero.

[4:03] Roy shares his early career path: underwriting, reinsurance, broker. Then he got his ARM. One of his friends was looking for a risk manager for a startup in Houston. Roy took the opportunity. He loved it until it was sold.

[4:55] Roy moved on to another job. After a couple of years, Valero approached him, looking for a risk manager with experience in the oil and gas industry, for a job in San Antonio. Roy said yes. It's a wonderful city. He was very excited to be given the opportunity.

[5:21] Roy says, six years later, he's Director of Risk Finance & Casualty Insurance, and loving every minute of it.

[5:52] Roy says his work days are varied. Every day is an exciting new challenge. Roy oversees captive, casualty insurance, directors and officers insurance, and all other types of insurance. He works in a large team and is often the backup when people are out. He's keeping up his skills.

[6:27] Roy also oversees the Risk Information Management System. Part of his team focuses on that, and he helps support them.

[6:38] Roy says it's a big organization of 10,000 people, and there's always something happening. You never know what you're going to get from day to day.

[6:48] Justin says he and Roy met right after RISKWORLD for a session with Origami Risk, "Future-Proofing Your Risk Program". Justin wanted to extend the dialog with Roy with Energy Awareness Month coming up in October.

[7:06] Justin asks how important Energy Awareness Month is at Valero. Roy says every minute of every day is about energy awareness.

[7:24] Valero is a refiner. They buy crude and refine it into jet fuel, diesel, and unleaded gas. They also produce ethanol and renewable diesel. They have their hands in a lot of things, all geared to moving people around the world.

[7:52] Valero is always looking at how to create efficiencies and keep costs down. Energy is a big piece of that. They are in Texas, where wind and solar are big. Valero is a big energy consumer.

[8:10] They try to keep the energy costs down and build efficiencies within the operation, not only to keep costs down but also to be more self-sustaining so they're taking less off the grid.

[8:47] Roy says a risk manager not only has to understand the insurance side and the claims side, and how they interrelate, but you have to understand them in the context of your business.

[8:58] You need to know how you make money, where the risks are, the trends you see, and help the organization identify those trends and find ways to address them when possible, via a captive or an outside carrier or internally with programs to mitigate risks and keep losses down.

[9:23] Roy says if you don't understand the business, you can't do that very effectively. You need to understand the business. You don't need to know all the details of how a business works, but you need to know a very strong baseline and know who does know the answers.

[9:38] Roy says creating that internal network is just as important as having the external network you get in the insurance world. You need to sit in between those two.

[9:50] Roy has been at Valero for six years and two months. He came from an oil and gas background, on the insurance side of the business. He knew how the flow worked and what all the pieces did. Even after six years at Valero, Roy is still learning something every day.

[10:22] Roy says it took a good year or two to feel comfortable "speaking" the business. He got there by listening to executives talk to carriers, by listening to earnings calls, and by listening to businesses asking Valero for things. Roy loves being a learner.

[10:51] That's how Roy has gotten a baseline comfort with the business, and he knows who to ask when there are specific questions.

[11:05] Roy has four people on his team, acting as internal support on top of other things they do for the company. The broad risk management group is around 20 people, including an internal TPA and risk engineers with niche knowledge in fire, water, and protection.

[12:04] Roy says most companies don't do that. It's just how Valero developed over the years.

[12:21] Justin asks what future-proofing a risk program means to Roy. Roy says it's staying on the pulse of what's going on in the business and in the insurance commercial markets, and maintaining a strong network across the board. Use that information. Does this apply to Valero?

[12:58] Roy says you have to look at the workforce. Some people may retire. What does that mean? What will we look like in five years? Roy says we do a five-year team outlook for the knowledge transfer. What's on the horizon?

[13:27] Twenty years ago, cyber was a thing, but it wasn't a real thing. Now, it's a bigger thing. It's something we have to look at. It's been insane. Roy asks, What's this AI going to do to us?

[13:47] Roy says a lot of that is coming from internal questions and resources. People from different departments bring questions. Roy says it's going to RIMS conferences and learning what's going on in the world, in the RIMS space, and in the technology space.

[14:07] Roy says bringing all that together is what helps future-proof us.

[14:39] Roy says he thinks all risk managers inherently do that. We're always trying to stay ahead of the ball. They want to stay at the forefront of what's going on in the world, so they can address it before it becomes a problem. That's the key. You're trying to address it.

[14:59] If it is a business decision, bring to bear your business knowledge in discussions: If we do this, this is what could happen, and this is how we can mitigate it. Do you want to take the cost of that mitigation? Roy says that having those discussions helps a lot, as well.

[15:21] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026. The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and registration is open.

[15:38] Visit RIMSWesternRegional.com and the link in this episode's show notes for more information.

[15:44] Save the dates: October 18th through the 21st. In Quebec City, we will be hosting the 50th Annual RIMS Canada Conference. Booth sales are open, and sponsorship opportunities are still available. Visit RIMSCanadaConference.ca for more information.

[16:01] Also, remember to check out RIMS.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, with a new episode every month.

[16:10] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration is open. Visit RIMS.org/ERM2026.

[16:23] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st! Member-only Registration will open on November 4th, and General Registration will open on December 2nd.

[16:41] Get first access to the hotel block. Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk! The link to registration is in this episode's show notes.

[16:54] Let's Return to Our Interview with Roy Hock of Valero!

[17:01] Justin asks if electric vehicles (EVs) are a risk for Valero. Roy answers that Valero is a supply-and-demand organization. Futurists have predicted we would hit peak oil and we would not need oil. That has not come to pass.

[17:40] Valero's philosophy is to do what is right, what makes profit for shareholders, and what's good for the world as they see it. So far, that's been doing very well for them. Valero is proud of what they've accomplished.

[18:03] Roy says Valero has done things internally that people don't see to bring down its carbon footprint. Some regulatory switches have caused Valero to put those numbers forward. Roy says Valero is proud of those numbers and that their metrics are industry-leading.

[19:06] Roy says Valero has a good story to tell and now they are telling it. It has been interesting. Some things they have been doing; some things have been in their plans for 20 years, as part of trying to run a good business. They've been doing all the right things, all along.

[19:43] Roy says he thinks Valero's culture of humility is helping to future-proof the business. Interns and new hires seem to love Valero. Numbers are good. Retention numbers are really good. If young employees are unhappy with a company's culture, they look for something else.

[20:31] Roy says, not only do we compensate them well, but also the culture keeps them engaged and wanting to work for us. Someone retired from Roy's team after 35-plus years. Roy says that is very common there. People like to work at Valero. It's a good spot.

[20:53] Justin asks how geopolitical risks affect Roy's risk work at Valero. Roy says Valero has been forced to step up and participate in new ways recently. Around the world, regulations have changed. It's hard to plan a business around regulations that are here today and gone tomorrow.

[21:47] Roy says they have to be at the table to try to mitigate that risk. Roy says "100%" there is more volatility on the regulatory side than when Valero started. The regulatory environment across the world swings back and forth. Valero is just trying to run a good business.

[22:26] Roy says one side of the aisle doesn't like it, and the other side of the aisle doesn't like it for a completely different reason.

[22:35] Valero is having to come sit at the table more often than ever to try to make sure their voice is heard and that what they're trying to do is coming across, to try to mitigate that risk as much as possible. It's not an insurance risk but a legal-type risk that Valero has to address.

[23:08] Roy says that Risk has the attention of the C-Suite. In Roy's experience, even at previous companies, insurance is one of the big "spends" of a company. It's the Risk Management Group's role to mitigate risks, process claims, and make sure they stay under control.

[23:43] Roy says that through Legal, or Treasury, or directly to the CFO, there's usually a line of sight to the C-Suite and the Board. Roy says sometimes you're placing insurance for the Board. Roy helps his VP get ready for the annual update to the Board and the big renewal cycles.

[24:15] Roy says, in the renewal cycle, if Risk sees something on the horizon, it's easy for them, because of the networks they've built, to go to the C-Suite and communicate those risks or options to them. It's periodic. It happens all the time.

[24:43] One more Quick Break! RIMS, The Foundation for Risk ManagementTM, is dedicated to shaping the future of the profession. By making a contribution, you are strengthening the global risk management community and investing in the future of the industry.

[25:02] The Foundation also supports the Spencer Educational Foundation but has a different mission. The Foundation focuses on providing opportunities for those professionals who have already decided to enter risk management and are just getting started.

[25:16] You can learn more about the Foundation by visiting www.RIMS.org/FRM.

While you're there, be sure to check out information about the Susan Meltzer Scholarship Fund, which was established to honor Ms. Meltzer, who was RIMS President in 1999 and 2000.

[25:35] Susan Meltzer was a cherished RIMS President and contributed so much to RIMS and the greater risk community. Learn more at RIMS.org/FRM.

[25:44] Let's Return to Our Interview with Roy Hock of Valero!

[25:50] Justin and Roy talk about Roy's membership in the South Texas RIMS Chapter. Roy is the former President of the RIMS Houston Chapter. He says the South Texas RIMS Chapter is fantastic.

[26:18] Roy says there are a lot of businesses coming into Texas, which means a lot of risk functions are moving in. The different chapters are growing. Everybody is doing a good job keeping their members engaged. They keep growing and finding new avenues of engagement.

[26:40] Roy says 32 years ago the South Texas RIMS Chapter led the way and started a shooting event in the Spring. Roy was a traditional golfer in Houston. Roy says the shooting event is awesome. They still do a golf event as well. Valero is a big sponsor of these types of events.

[27:03] Roy says his boss, Jeremy Bergeron, is a former President of the local chapter. Jeremy reports to the Board annually. Everybody on the team is hands-on, periodically touching base with the different groups.

[27:34] Roy says Valero has a long history with and a love of RIMS. Often, the South Texas RIMS Chapter gets invites to play golf with different vendors, and Valero has been very good about supporting that.

[27:52] Instead of chapter members going, they'll bring in students from St. Mary's University to attend these events as the future of the risk management industry. It's important to have them get engaged in these types of events, so the chapter helps support them and brings them in.

[28:12] Roy sits on the St. Mary's Risk Advisory Board. It's been a pleasure. He loves it, and he says these kids are great. He says we have great future people coming into the industry.

[28:30] Roy describes managing a captive for Valero. He has always been interested in how insurance companies function and work. When Valero approached him, it was for risk management and running a captive insurance company. He said, Sign me up!

[28:58] Roy says it's great. Day to day, they're doing everything an insurance company does. They talk to regulators, they have managers, they have investments, and all the different things that accompany an insurance company.

[29:09] Roy says Valero's captive is a company within a company, and an insurance company within a non-insurance-company environment. They insure Valero. Roy has a CPA on staff who is very helpful. She came from Valero's Accounting side, so she knows their needs.

[29:39] Roy says that's one of the unique things about a captive. You need to be able to integrate with your parent company to consolidate everything correctly. The CPA is the bridge that does that for the captive. She has been very helpful to Roy and has helped him learn about it.

[29:55] Roy says he didn't have a strong finance background. He knew basic accounting, but running a company is a little bit different. You need to know a little bit more. The CPA has helped Roy get educated on that. Accounting rules evolve, and regulations change all the time.

[30:21] Roy says he likes policies and insurance. Reading a policy may not be for everybody, but it is for Roy, so it has been great. He gets to generate policies, which is even more fun. He gets to interact with a lot of fun and exciting people at Valero and outside.

[31:08] Roy says they've redomiciled their captive to Texas. It's a growing captive, so there are a lot of moving parts, like a startup. He has to wear many hats. Valero allows Roy the opportunity to engage in helping with the process of pushing legislation. He likes the opportunity.

[32:00] Roy would advise young risk professionals coming out of schools today, already understanding policies and risk registers, to continue their education. Designations are important, including the RIMS-CRMP. Roy got the ARM before the RIMS-CRMP was available.

[33:10] Roy says things are changing constantly. When Roy took the ARM, there was no cyber piece. There is a piece on cyber now. It's a dynamic and ever-changing industry. Always keep your education up. Roy also advises that you need to build your network.

[33:38] Roy says in insurance and risk management, and in your organization, you need to build your network so you can do your job and learn about what other people are doing in your organization and outside your organization.

[33:53] Going to conferences helps in ways you don't even understand. As an industry, risk stands out as being more personable. You have data, systems, and risks, but you layer a personal connection on top of all of it.

[34:23] Roy says a lot of students come out of school without a network. Roy tells his team to introduce these students to as many people as you can. Make sure that they get to all the conferences that they can. In the industry, we have a responsibility to help them with that.

[34:58] As new risk professionals join the workforce, Roy says they should know that the traditional industries are not going anywhere. They are still very valuable and have a lot of career "legs" in them. You can make a great career working at an energy or energy-related company.

[35:14] Roy says new risk professionals should keep an open mind to it and see what they like. As many pieces as there are on the insurance side, there are as many on the energy side. There are all types of energy and all types of places to play.

[35:35] Roy says to move around, learn about these different pieces, and see what speaks to you. If you don't like what you're doing, you're not going to do as good a job. If you like what you're doing, you're always going to push yourself to do the best job.

[35:33] Special thanks again to Roy Hock for joining us here on RIMScast! I've got a link in this episode's show notes to the on-demand video of "Future-Proofing Your Risk Program: Keeping Pace with Scale, Complexity, and Visibility," featuring Roy Hock and presented by Origami Risk.

[36:10] Visit https://www.RIMS.org/Webinars and scroll down the page to find it.

[36:14] Happy Energy Awareness Month!

[36:16] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email [email protected] for more information.

[36:34] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[36:50] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.

[37:03] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at [email protected].

[37:15] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!

Links:

ChicagoLand Risk Forum | Sept. 24, 2026

RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 21‒24 | Complimentary For All

RIMS Western Regional Conference — Oct. 4‒7, 2026 | Seattle, WA | Register Today.

RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | www.rimscanadaconference.ca | Sponsorship Opportunities Available

RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | www.rims.org/ERM2026

RISKWORLD 2027 Registration

RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live — Watch the new video with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau.

The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center

RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management

Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines.

RIMS Now

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan!

RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council

RIMS-CRMP Stories

RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy

RIMScast on YouTube!

RIMS Risk Management Magazine | Contribute | Q2 2026 Issue Now Available

Sponsor RIMScast — [email protected]

"Future-Proofing Your Risk Program: Keeping Pace with Scale, Complexity, and Visibility"

Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops:

Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule

See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops

Upcoming RIMS Webinars:

RIMS.org/Webinars

RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 22‒24 | Complimentary For All

"The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Be Thinking About Now" | Sponsored by Brown & Brown | Oct. 1, 2026

"The 2027 Risk Agenda: 10 Engineering Priorities Risk Leaders Should Act on Now" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants | Oct. 8, 2026

"Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight" | Sponsored by Verisk Maplecroft | Oct. 15, 2026

"Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders" | Sponsored by Zurich | Oct. 22, 2026

"Managing Insurance Programs at Scale: What Complex Risk Portfolios Require" | Sponsored by Origami Risk | Oct. 29, 2026

"Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics" | Sponsored by Riskonnect | Nov. 5, 2026

Related RIMScast Episodes:

"From Wellhead to Burner Tip: Eric Lobser's ERM Journey"

"When Geopolitics Hits the Balance Sheet with Cari Stinebower"

Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:

"48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before A Hurricane Strikes" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company (New!)

"AI-Scale, Risk Ready: Engineering Controls for the New Data Center Boom" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Facing Into Risk: Navigating the New Risk Landscape" (New!) | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Secondary Perils, Major Risks: The New Face of Weather-Related Challenges" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"The ART of Risk: Rethinking Risk Through Insight, Design, and Innovation" | Sponsored by Alliant

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"Cyberrisk: Preparing Beyond 2025" | Sponsored by Alliant

"The New Reality of Risk Engineering: From Code Compliance to Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Change Management: AI's Role in Loss Control and Property Insurance" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Demystifying Multinational Fronting Insurance Programs" | Sponsored by Zurich

"Understanding Third-Party Litigation Funding" | Sponsored by Zurich

"What Risk Managers Can Learn From School Shootings" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Simplifying the Challenges of OSHA Recordkeeping" | Sponsored by Medcor

"How Insurance Builds Resilience Against an Active Assailant Attack" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Third-Party and Cyber Risk Management Tips" | Sponsored by Alliant

RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

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About our guest: Roy C. Hock, Director, Risk Finance & Casualty Insurance, Valero

October is Energy Awareness Month.

Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews Sal Lifrieri, former NYPD detective and director for NYC's Office of Emergency Management during the 9/11 attacks. Sal is the author of the new book, Leading Through Chaos: What Decades in Intelligence, Crisis, and Chaos Taught Me About Leadership. As a security and counterterrorism expert, Sal Lifrieri draws on a 40-year career spanning homicide investigations, hostage negotiations, intelligence operations, emergency management, and corporate security. His experience offers timely lessons on how leaders can anticipate threats, respond decisively, and protect citizens during our most challenging and uncertain moments. Justin and Sal discuss practical, layered security for houses of worship, often involving volunteers, controlling access, and knowing who is entering the building, all while maintaining a spirit of welcome. They discuss what should happen well before a disruption to a service, what responses work if a person disrupts a service, and what roles different respondents, including law enforcement, can play. Sal points out that the best deterrent is intelligence information, and he advises how staff can get information before the service.

Listen for Sal's advice on security teams, pre-planning, and having a well-defined evacuation strategy.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.

[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. Our guest is Sal Lifrieri, a security and terrorism expert. We will discuss tips for how to keep houses of worship safe, especially during the High Holy Days. But first…

[:45] RIMS-CRMP: RIMS Certification Week will be held from September 21st through the 25th. There is a link to the events in this episode's show notes, including three free webinars. The week is a global celebration of the RIMS Certified Risk Management Professional certification.

[1:02] It is a virtual event for you to learn about the certification, how it can strengthen your career and organization, and understand how the RIMS-CRMP is shaping the future of risk management.

[1:13] A link to Certification Week is in this episode's show notes. You can also find it at RIMS.org/Webinars.

[1:19] Webinars: There are lots more RIMS Webinars coming up. On September 17th, AXA XL returns to present "Beyond the Loss Count: What Property Claims Reveal about Frequency, Severity, and Resilience."

[1:32] On October 1st, Brown and Brown make their RIMS Webinars debut by discussing "The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Think about Now."

[1:42] Global Risk Consultants will return on October 8th to present "The 2027 Risk Agenda: 10 Engineering Priorities Risk Leaders Should Act on Now".

[1:52] On Oct. 15, Verisk Maplecroft will lead the session "Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight".

[2:01] On Oct. 22, Zurich returns to tell us all about "Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders".

[2:13] Origami Risk returns on October 29th with a session that will be announced shortly.

[2:19] On Nov. 5th, Riskonnect returns to deliver the session "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics". Visit RIMS.org/Webinars to register.

[2:30] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!

[2:48] On with the Show! Our guest today has 40 years of experience leading through high-pressure situations. He is a former New York Police Department Detective 1st Grade.

[3:00] He served on the department's elite Hostage Negotiation Team and later, the Protective Operations Unit within the Intelligence Division, overseeing Protective Intelligence and Threat Investigations for the Mayor of New York City.

[3:14] He is the author of a new book, Leading Through Chaos: What Decades in Intelligence, Crisis and Chaos Taught Me About Leadership. He is here to discuss safety precautions and preparedness for houses of worship.

[3:30] His name is Sal Lifrieri, and you may know him from his RIMS events appearances and sessions.

[3:37] This is going to be a really great dialog, not just for RIMS members, but also for the public, for those individuals who may not be an official risk manager for your house of worship but have to take the lead on ensuring the security and safety of your congregants. Let's get to it!

[3:58] Interview! Sal Lifrieri, welcome to RIMScast!

[4:19] Sal spent 20 years with the NYPD, from Patrol to Anti-crime to the Hostage Negotiation Team, which he regards as the highlight of his career. He went to the Intelligence Division, in charge of the Russian Organized Crime Project, then moved over to Protection.

[5:03] Sal says the Intelligence Division of the NYPD is modeled after the Secret Service. Half the house does Criminal and half the house does Protection. Sal moved to Protection and took over the Threat operations and Intelligence operations for the elected officials and the Mayor.

[5:23] Sal's final assignment was Mayor Giuliani. He took Emergency Management away from the Police Department and created a Mayoral Agency. About seven went over from the NYPD. [5:43] Sal says they sought to create the city's planning for any crisis or disaster. At the time, that was chemical and biological terrorism. They worked on the different threats that came through the city.

[6:00] In January of '01, Sal retired as a Director of Security and Intelligence Operations out of OEM and started a consulting career. 25 years later, he is still at it.

[6:24] Justin says that we're recording this in Early September, and this episode is being released a week after the 25th Anniversary of the September 11th terror attacks.

[6:39] Sal says this anniversary is going to be different, considering that it is 25 years, and with what's going on in the world, the different issues and the volatilities that exist, and the things that are occurring with synagogues and houses of worship across the country and the world.

[7:10] Sal says also, the fact that Rosh Hashanah starts on 9/11 is significant. That confluence of many things escalates the threat profile.

[7:40] Justin says, as a member of a synagogue, in the last 25 years at his temple, he has seen an armed guard outside during the High Holy Days. Justin is at a Reformed temple. For Hebrew School, a security guard checks parent IDs.

[8:06] Justin says, These are things they didn't have to worry about when he was a kid. Clearly, the risk threat has heightened. Sal agrees.

[8:22] Sal says the threat profile has increased, and something problematic is the availability of social media for children. Parents used to hide children from bad things in the world, but today everything is out there and open for discovery by children. Children are no longer as innocent.

[8:53] Justin asks about protection at houses of worship. Sal says you need concentric circles of perimeters, starting from the outside and working your way in. The protection starts weeks and months before any of these events take place.

[9:44] Start looking at inappropriate correspondence that may be coming in and things that are happening at other facilities around you. Look at the congregation. If your congregation has a high-profile individual, that person may be a target. There are several things you have to look at.

[10:12] That planning has to start very early. As you go from the very wide, you start bringing it down closer and closer. It's always great to be able to have law enforcement in front of you, whether a uniformed officer or even just a vehicle. It's definitely a deterrent.

[11:06] Justin says that most houses of worship do not have a dedicated risk manager. The person with that responsibility could be a facilities director, clergy, or a volunteer. He asks what people in that situation should assess first.

[11:37] Sal says people look at threat assessment as Voodoo. For personnel who don't have the expertise, law enforcement credential, or background, ask the building engineer or the guard, "If you were going to do something bad to this place, how would you do it?"

[12:24] Once you can convince them that you're not accusing them, it's incredible what they can tell you. Ask, "Applying common sense, what are those things that you think are problematic and worry about?" They can start developing ideas of what might work well.

[13:01] One of Sal's clients is a prominent synagogue in Manhattan. They were having planning meetings before the High Holy Days. One of the people on the security committee is a volunteer usher. He asked how we could check people in faster as they come in.

[13:26] Sal says you want that feedback. You want them to tell you how things are operating and what they are thinking about. Apply basic logic to what you think might be wrong and go with it. Justin suggests asking someone on the custodial staff because they know the building.

[14:05] Sal says the custodians are the people who, for the most part, get overlooked. They see what's lying on the desk or in the trash, such as inappropriate correspondence that came in. They're a critical element of who should be talked to in a team approach.

[14:33] Justin asks about doors or windows that don't secure properly, such as the shooting in Uvalde, Texas, where the shooter entered through a closed door that was supposed to be locked.

[15:03] Sal says don't rely on Security to give you the total picture. Go to the people using these things every day that can give you a good heads-up about what may be wrong.

[15:19] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026. The 11th Annual Chicagoland Risk Forum will return to the Old Post Office on Thursday, September 24th, 2026. Visit ChicagolandRiskForum.org for more information.

[15:35] The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit RIMSWesternRegional.com and the link in this episode's show notes for more information.

[15:52] Save the dates: October 18th through the 21st. In Quebec City, we will be hosting the 50th Annual RIMS Canada Conference. Booth sales are open, and sponsorship opportunities are still available. Visit RIMSCanadaConference.ca for more information.

[16:10] Also, remember to check out RIMS.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, with a new episode every month.

[16:18] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration is open. Visit RIMS.org/ERM2026.

[16:31] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st! RISKWORLD 2027 Member-only Registration will open on November 4th, and General Registration will open on December 2nd.

[16:49] Get first access to the hotel block. Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk! The link to registration is in this episode's show notes.

[17:03] Let's Return to Our Interview with Security Expert Sal Lifrieri!

[17:10] Justin asks about the balance of keeping a house of worship secure but also maintaining a spirit of openness, welcoming, and handicap accessibility.

[17:27] Sal says that's the biggest difficulty with any house of worship. You don't want to have the armed camp, yet you want the security. Trying to balance that is difficult. It's a matter of establishing the policies and protocols.

[17:50] Sal says one thing they've done at the synagogue in Manhattan is called the Trusted Traveler Program. If you're a member of the congregation, you have a ticket with a QR code and ID that you are the person on the ticket; you don't have to worry about magnetometers; you're in.

[18:22] If you're unknown, or don't have a ticket, you go to a Will Call window and go through better screening.

[18:32] If someone seems out of place, you can talk with them. Sal does security training programs, teaching that you can walk up to people and engage them in conversation. If they're up to no good, they will move on. If they're really lost, it becomes a great visitor interaction.

[19:38] From the security side, you're able to garner more intelligence information from that interaction to make your decision as to what you want to do. If you're just watching and you're not interacting with them, you have no idea what's going on.

[20:00] You want to make your determinations based on intelligence information you're going to garner. The only way you're going to get it is by interacting with that person.

[20:21] Justin asks about someone becoming disruptive during a service. What should staff and volunteers be trained to recognize in those first, critical moments? Sal says you should already have met with leadership and decided: If this happens, then what?

[21:09] Some rabbis have decided not to be physical. Let them say their piece and get it over with, and then ask them to leave, and hope they leave.

[21:32] Sal has seen situations where multiple people will infiltrate. One will get up and start yelling and protesting, and you get that person out, and another one pops up, and then another one pops up. It continues for five or six people.

[21:57] Sal says, going back to preplanning, was there any inappropriate correspondence that had come through? Was there anything on social media that indicated that there may be a problem?

[22:10] A lot of times, people will see things and say, it's a nut; leave it alone. They'll hit delete, or they'll throw the letter out, never understanding that these things have a natural progression.

[22:24] Sal quotes the U.S. Secret Service: Nobody just snaps. It's the slow progression of time, of failing to do things.

[22:34] Before they become operational, they're going to write an email; they're going to write a letter. There may be a phone call. There may be things that are going to give you an indication that we may have a problem here.

[22:47] Sal shares a case of a recent event where someone stood up, started protesting, and assaulted a congregant and a security officer. The after-action report determined he wasn't a member of the congregation, but it was an open, non-ticketed event, so he was able to get in.

[23:27] Sal thinks more investigation is needed. Did he just happen to show up, or was there some indication that this was going to happen? It comes down to your planning before the event.

[24:02] Sal says it comes down to organization. You can bring in a consultant like Sal, but the consultant is not going to be there all the time. You want to create a team, including IT.

[24:38] If something happens during a streamed service, Sal recommends shutting the stream off so supporters of the protesting individual or group don't get to watch it. You don't want the protest to go viral.

[24:57] Sal says a rabbi at one synagogue didn't want any comments to be posted. Sal wants to see the comments. If someone is posting death threats in the middle of a service, you want that intelligence information. You want to know what's going on in the background.

[25:28] It's dealing with the AV team, IT, the custodians, and the rabbi ahead of time. If we have to evacuate, where's the best place to go? How do we do it most effectively? It's creating that plan. If you're trying to create the response in the middle of a crisis, you're way too late.

[25:55] You have to have a plan ahead of time. You need to know the local law enforcement officers ahead of time. They need to understand you. You need to understand the rules they're under. With demonstrations, it's a very touchy situation. Demonstrators have a right to protest.

[26:18] Sal says, depending on what part of the country you are in, and what cities you are in, there are rules of engagement for law enforcement to follow. Sometimes, that's in direct conflict with what the facility wants.

[26:31] Those things have to be ironed out and discussed ahead of time so there's no mystery about what happens, if it happens.

[26:38] Justin says the protesting can happen outside the location, not inside. Once you're inside, your right to free speech is minimized.

[26:48] Sal says, you go through the process of explaining to them, especially if it's an open event; once they're in, and they've been disruptive, you're advising them they have to leave. If they don't, they violate a trespassing act and can be arrested for trespassing.

[27:16] That turns into a negotiation in the middle of a protest. In NYC, it involves multiple levels of law enforcement hierarchy and then giving the protester 30 minutes to end before effecting an arrest. In the middle of a service, dealing with all of this could become highly problematic.

[28:05] Sal says that what you really need to do is establish policies and protocols ahead of time. Identify what the potential risks are and the issues you may face. Overcome the hurdles of thinking it will never happen here and the budget.

[29:04] What's the risk, and how much money do we have to spend on it? The two have to balance each other.

[29:14] Sal is annoyed when consultants come in and identify outrageous risks with outrageous requirements that the client could never mitigate. It's a defense plan so that if anything went bad, the consultant can say they told you.

[29:45] You have to modify it into a reasonable plan. What are the risks that could seriously potentially happen? What are the things we need to do to mitigate them? How do we apply a budget effectively?

[30:02] Justin says these are great tips. We've got plenty of holidays coming up across all religions. This is an evergreen episode for us.

[30:24] Justin says the security for any house of worship relies heavily on volunteers a lot of the time. Is there a good practice or training sequence to hand off the baton from one volunteer to the next, especially if there's frequent turnover?

[30:40] Sal says, good communication, have volunteers on the security committee, and as they get their feet under them, get some practice, and do reviews after an event or High Holy Day: What did we do right, what did we do wrong, and what are the things we could do better?

[31:13] Pass the baton to the next person and work with them. Sal says his experience with that has been positive. You see them talking to each other in a concerted effort to make things better.

[31:44] Sal says a couple of years ago we used printed tickets, and now we deploy technology to track who's coming in and can marry that data with any inappropriate correspondence or investigations we may be incurring for people who have been identified as potential problems.

[32:17] Sal says being able to marry those two technologies together is something that has been growing in the right direction. As the risks evolve and become more prominent, facilities, especially houses of worship, are starting to take risks a little more seriously.

[32:38] Houses of worship are recognizing they need to step up and do things that could make them safer. At the same time, you develop an incredible sense of community when you have a bunch of people willing to get together, work towards a common goal, and learn something.

[33:00] Sal says unfortunately, these risks occur, but the positive side is that it's bringing the communities together and giving them the opportunity to tighten up their security.

[33:15] One more Quick Break! RIMS, The Foundation for Risk ManagementTM, is dedicated to shaping the future of the profession. By making a contribution, you are strengthening the global risk management community and investing in the future of the industry.

[33:34] The Foundation also supports the Spencer Educational Foundation but has a different mission. The Foundation focuses on providing opportunities for those professionals who have already decided to enter risk management and are just getting started.

[33:49] You can learn more about the Foundation by visiting www.RIMS.org/FRM.

While you're there, be sure to check out information about the Susan Meltzer Scholarship Fund, which was established to honor Ms. Meltzer, who was RIMS President in 1999 and 2000.

[34:07] Susan Meltzer was a cherished RIMS President and contributed so much to RIMS and the greater risk community. Learn more at RIMS.org/FRM.

[34:16] Let's Return to Our Interview with Security Expert Sal Lifrieri!

[34:31] Justin mentions that Sal has been a presence at RISKWORLD and local RIMS chapter events. Sal says he had the privilege to talk to a RIMS conference in Austin. It was a great experience. He also did a couple of talks for a local chapter.

[35:02] Sal says the RIMS organization is picture-perfect for education, training, and leadership for people in risk management. He says, you go to give a talk and inevitably, walk away learning things yourself that you can deploy. He says it's been great and looks forward to doing it again.

[35:35] Sal says when he talks at a RIMS event, the attendees are dealing with the risks; they want to hear about the risks, they want to hear about how we identify those risks, and what we do for mitigation of the risks.

[36:03] Sal says everybody likes the intelligence component behind it. How do you identify that risk? How do you find a needle in a haystack? You're talking to people who are doing this on a daily basis. They have a vested interest in what you're talking about.

[36:48] Justin talks about risk managers needing to hear the bad news so they can prevent it for their own organizations. Sal says they walk into the CEO's or CFO's office and have to tell them, these are the risks; these are the problems.

[36:59] The General Counsel doesn't want to hear it. The CFO doesn't want to pay for it. The COO sees it as another risk to worry about. The risk manager is in an incredibly difficult position. Everybody wants to duck and cover when they see the risk manager coming.

[37:25] Sal says, on the flip side, if they do the proper planning and proper mitigation, and enough resource allocation, and address all of that, then they wind up mitigating a lot of problems that could decimate a company. The message sometimes gets lost in the C-Suite.

[38:00] Justin mentions sports arenas. Sal says for a sports arena, you have 50, 60, or 100,000 people showing up for an event. How do you get them in? How do you get them out? Sal recalls the shooting in Las Vegas from the hotel. What was the planning for evacuating 20,000?

[38:59] Justin asks how to handle a situation that is outside. At the time of recording, they are in the pre-planning for 9/11 security. One of Sal's clients is the developer of the World Trade Center. They have four buildings on site. 100,000 people will attend the memorial service.

[33:33] Sal says they are also looking at the possibility of protests. How do you deal with protests with the potential to go violent? What's the continuity-of-operations plan? One of the benefits is that it's on Friday and there is not a lot of occupancy anticipated in the buildings.

[40:05] If something happens, what do you do with the people? Sal says when he was in OEM, there was a huge blizzard. The mayor decided to close everything down at 3:00 and send everybody home.

[40:27] They called the head of the MTA to come to City Hall. He told him he couldn't do it; they didn't have the staffing to move hundreds of thousands of people out of the city at 3:00 p.m. They would have needed a day's planning. 60,000 people would be left at Grand Central Station.

[41:09] Sal says you can make decisions and recommendations of what you want, but you have to think about secondary impacts. How do you move people? Where do you put them? You don't want a knee-jerk to one crisis to develop a second crisis.

[41:29] If you do it the first time, you'll do it the second time; if you do it the second, you'll do it the third. Then before you know it, you're so far downrange you forgot what started the first crisis, and you're trying to deal with something that should have never occurred.

[42:13] Sal advises on leadership in a crisis. One of the keys in his book, Leading Through Chaos, is, first, to check your ego at the door. You need the ability to stop and think. Sometimes people in leadership positions think that they have to have all the answers. That's not the case.

[42:45] A lot of times, you're dealing with situations that are totally foreign to you, that you've had no experience dealing with. Be willing to stop and take a deep breath. Take a good listen to what is going on.

[43:32] Everybody around you is willing to help. You have to be able to take that advice. That's what makes you a great leader: letting the people around you do what they do best.

[43:27] Sal, it's been an insightful discussion. I want to thank you for joining us here on RIMScast.

[43:36] Special thanks again to Sal Lifriere for joining us here on RIMScast! Remember to check out his book, Leading Through Chaos: What Decades in Intelligence, Crisis, and Chaos Taught Me About Leadership. Hopefully, we see him at another RIMS event in 2027.

[43:52] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email [email protected] for more information.

[44:10] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[44:25] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.

[44:40] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at [email protected].

[44:52] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!

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About our guest: Sal Lifrieri, former NYPD detective and director for NYC's Office of Emergency Management.

Author: Leading Through Chaos: What Decades in Intelligence, Crisis, and Chaos Taught Me About Leadership

"Former NYPD Detective Talks Midtown Security."

Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews Janice Ochenkowski about her leadership, her career path, serving in RIMS External Affairs and later as RIMS President. They discuss the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, the loss of lives, and the impact the attacks had on life in the U.S.

Justin and Janice talk about Janice's role in passing the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act (TRIA).

They also address the financial and housing crisis of 2007-2008. Janice relates her testimony before Congress on various matters over the years, and how her RIMS leadership held her in her employment.

Listen for wisdom on adapting and changing with the times, and using leadership opportunities to help your business as you move your risk career forward.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.

[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. We will be joined by former RIMS President Janice Ochenkowski.

[:35] Janice will discuss how her time on the RIMS Board and as RIMS President helped ensure the passage of TRIA, the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act, in the aftermath of the 9/11 terror attacks.

[:49] There will be plugs later on, and we will learn about Janice's fascinating career, but I wanted to address the fact that this episode is being released on September 8th, 2026, a few days before the 25th anniversary of the 9/11 terror attacks in the U.S.

[1:10] Before we get started, I'd like to welcome back RIMS's Chief Executive Officer, Gary LaBranche, to say a few words.

[1:18] Message from Gary LaBranche: 2026 marks a quarter-century since terrorist attacks on the United States killed nearly 3,000 people, injured many more, and impacted the lives of millions.

[1:30] This RIMScast podcast provides the opportunity to reflect on the lives lost and the lasting impact of this tragedy on survivors, families, friends, first responders, and everyone who witnessed that horrendous day and has borne its burden over the past 25 years.

[1:51] The events of 9/11 also revealed the best in human nature, such as the warm, welcoming affection shown by Canadians when U.S.-bound flights were diverted to Gander, Montreal, Vancouver, Halifax, and other locations in the aftermath of 9/11, as we learn in this podcast.

[2:11] RIMS played a leading role in crafting and passing the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act (TRIA), which established an insurance backstop in the event of a future large-scale terrorist attack on America.

[2:24] RIMS is working right now on bipartisan legislation in both the U.S. House and Senate to reauthorize TRIA. As we commemorate this day, let us rededicate ourselves to the important work that risk management does to make the world safer, more secure, and more sustainable.

[2:46] On with the Show! Here to provide a brief history of RIMS's collaboration with members of Congress and the global insurance and risk management community is Janice Ochenkowski.

[2:59] Janice was RIMS President in 2007, and as we will learn in this episode, she had a colorful career with RIMS and with Jones Lang LaSalle, a commercial real estate property owner.

[3:13] Her RIMS participation prior to her presidency was instrumental in helping her get TRIA passed by Congress, so there's a lot to learn today … Let's get to it!

[3:23] Interview! Janice Ochenkowski, welcome to RIMScast!

[4:04] Janice joined the Chicago Chapter of RIMS, not understanding the larger RIMS organization. She became an active member and an officer. She was President of the Chicago Chapter the year that Chicago member Art Bostwick was RIMS President.

[4:55] Janice says Art was a good mentor for her. He encouraged her to follow in his footsteps to be national president. She laughed, but many years later, she did.

[5:20] Janice started her risk management career in 1980; she joined the RIMS Chicago Chapter in '82 or '83. After moving through the chairs in the Chicago Chapter, she became a delegate to the RIMS Conference, started working in various committees, and moved into leadership.

[5:47] Janice was elected to the Board, took on responsibilities for different chairs, and ended up in charge of Government Affairs.

[6:01] Lance Ewing, the President at the time, asked the Board what roles they wanted to take. Janice said she would do anything except legislative stuff, because she didn't know anything about it. He burst out laughing, and suddenly that was her mandate.

[6:31] Janice says she absolutely loved it. Jim McIntyre, who was RIMS's Washington Counsel, was a phenomenal mentor. He prepared her to testify, prepared her for meetings, and explained who she was going to meet and how it was going to work, and so on.

[6:53] Janice says, from there, I went into a few other responsibilities and ended up as the President.

[7:10] Janice started her career in 1980 at LaSalle Partners in real estate and financial services. There were 150 employees operating in six states. Because of Federal regulations regarding their pension work, they needed a full-time risk manager.

[7:35] The legislation said they needed a risk manager but didn't explain what the risk manager needed to do. Janice had been teaching high school, and she wanted to move into business.

[7:47] Janice interviewed through an employment agency with a variety of companies, and decided LaSalle Partners sounded interesting and it would be a good platform for her to get some experience and then move on.

[8:02] Thirty-eight years later, she was still there, and retiring. When she retired, there were 90,000 employees in 100 countries. Janice had 17 full-time staff, globally, working for her.

[8:20] Janice says LaSalle Partners started as a privately held company. Janice was one of the partners. It became a corporation and, after acquisitions, merged with Jones Lang Wootton, a UK real estate organization, and became Jones Lang LaSalle.

[9:17] Janice says her career was a wild ride. She says she never could have imagined the experiences she had, the friendships she made, and the things that she learned and had opportunities to do, through her company and through RIMS.

[9:36] Janice says she was able to draw links between the benefits of RIMS and the business of her business. When she went to board meetings, they asked how her RIMS work was going. She showed that being in leadership at RIMS helped her company to achieve its goals.

[10:27] Janice says, when she started at RIMS, there were the local chapters, and then there were industry groups. The real estate industry group was extremely active. It was populated by very experienced real estate risk managers. They served as mentors to anyone coming on.

[10:47] The group met not only during RIMS, but also in New York, in the fall, outside of the RIMS conference. Eventually, Jones Lang LaSalle supported the group's meetings and allowed them to use JLL buildings and support from technology to go forward.

[11:07] Janice says, when she was going to a RIMS conference, she asked the JLL Board if there was anything they wanted her to focus on when meeting up with risk managers of their clients and vendors.

[11:33] Over time, she didn't have to ask. They asked her, if you're going to your RIMS meeting, talk to this person. See if you can find out about this issue. There was connectivity between what Janice did at RIMS and supporting JLL.

[12:10] Justin asks what Janice taught in high school. It was English and French. She can still speak un petit peu of French. She enjoys opportunities to speak to people in French and ordering from French menus. As a teacher, she wanted something different and moved into business.

[12:42] Justin says that in over 400 RIMScast episodes, Janice might be the first guest who went from teaching and transitioned over to insurance. Janice says making lesson plans and executing them is good training for business.

[13:07] Janice says she learned how to explain things. She had to translate insurance into real estate speak for JLL. She had to take real estate speak and translate it into insurance speak for underwriters and brokers.

[13:22] Janice was comfortable speaking to groups because she had been speaking to unruly teenagers and getting them under control. Talking to a bunch of business people, who at least pretended to be interested, was a piece of cake. Janice says it was fun, and a good transition.

[13:55] Justin brings up Janice's time as the Director of Government Affairs for RIMS. She became chair of what is now known as the RIMS External Affairs Committee. Lance Ewing nudged her into the role in the late 1990s. Then the September 11 terrorist attacks happened.

[14:40] Janice says that one thing that's missing from most recollections is the immediate impact that the 9/11 terrorist attacks had. Before 9/11, there was the general perception that our borders were safe; there wasn't going to be an attack on U.S. soil.

[15:15] When we saw the towers burning, when the plane went down, when the Pentagon was hit, that illusion was shattered. There was fear. We didn't know if this was the first of an aerial attack. Janice was on the 70th floor of the Aon Building, so it was a real concern for her.

[15:40] Janice says, we didn't know if there was going to be an invasion or similar attacks around the country. To develop good risk management practices, the first thing you have to do is define the risk.

[15:53] Janice says, we couldn't define the risk. The only thing we could do immediately was respond to the situation. She was thinking more with her Jones Lang LaSalle hat than with her RIMS hat. The entire leadership and spouses were on the West Coast doing strategic planning.

[16:20] Janice says most of them operated in the Midwest and the East Coast. They had to get back, but there were no planes, no trains, and no transportation. They tried to get rental cars. So did everyone else in the world.

[16:50] When they couldn't get more rental cars, they went to a used car lot and bought vans, station wagons, and whatever they could find where couples could travel together to similar places. When they got to where they were going, they sold the cars. That's how they got back.

[17:15] Janice says, meanwhile, our technology folks were setting up hotlines: one hotline to figure out where people were. We had people traveling or on vacation. We didn't know where they were, and there was very limited communication. Phone lines and internet were down.

[17:45] We set up a hotline. Every employee was required to call in every day for a couple of weeks, identifying where they were, whether they needed help getting back to their home, and what other resources they might need. The hotline helped them to get those resources.

[18:06] The second hotline was for families. Families called that line if they were unable to reach their loved one. If the employee had called the hotline, JLL could tell the family where the employee was, how things were going, when they might get home, and take note of needs.

[18:26] Janice says that's what was happening on the home front, away from the immediate needs in each of these 9/11 sites. It was only after that that you could settle back and think strategically about what it meant on a broader basis, and that's when she put her RIMS hat on.

[18:49] Justin guesses that at the time, Jones Lang LaSalle had thousands of properties across the U.S., with millions of square feet. So there is the security risk at those buildings, as well. Janice agrees, absolutely.

[19:04] Janice says people focus on New York and D.C., but in Kansas, Nebraska, and all around the country, everyone was in shock and preparing for the worst.

[19:26] Janice says she remembers sitting on the 70th floor of the Aon Building, once they let everyone in, after a few days. There were windows all around, and her window looked out onto Lake Michigan, where all the military patrols were, over the lake.

[19:52] Janice clearly remembers many times over the next several weeks sitting there and suddenly seeing a black helicopter rise into view. She could see the pilot's face, and she waved. Then it would descend. She says it was reassuring but also scary.

[20:30] Justin asks about the hotlines. Janice says Jones Lang LaSalle did things collaboratively. If Technology was working on something, they brought in Risk, Legal, and HR, and they all sat down and figured it out. They were all a part of whatever strategy was needed.

[20:55] Janice was involved. She was an important member of the Security Team and the Safety Team, and was involved even in the aftermath, coming up with ways in which to strengthen and protect their buildings.

[21:08] People were worried about chemicals being thrown into the ventilation. So they came up with ways to protect that while still letting air into the buildings. What to do to allow people back in. All of those things had to be considered, for safety and for the practical effect on operations.

[21:33] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026. The 11th Annual Chicagoland Risk Forum will return to the Old Post Office on Thursday, September 24th, 2026. Visit ChicagolandRiskForum.org for more information.

[21:46] The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit RIMSWesternRegional.com and the link in this episode's show notes for more information.

[22:02] Save the dates: October 18th through the 21st. In Quebec City, we will be hosting the 50th Annual RIMS Canada Conference. Booth sales are open, and sponsorship opportunities are still available. Visit RIMSCanadaConference.ca for more information.

[22:24] Also, remember to check out RIMS.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, with a new episode every month.

[22:32] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration is open. Visit RIMS.org/ERM2026.

[22:46] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st! RISKWORLD 2027 Registration is open to organizational, individual, and associate RIMS members.

[23:04] Get first access to the hotel block. Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk! The link to registration is in this episode's show notes.

[23:17] Let's Return to Our Interview with Former RIMS President Janice Ochenkowski!

[23:41] Janice says she needed to wear her RIMS hat almost immediately. She says everyone realized that there was "innocuous" language in all policies that said terrorist acts were covered.

[23:57] There were no limits, sublimits, or deductibles. It was standard coverage because no one expected it to be a real issue. Then it was. There was an immediate concern as they looked at what their total exposure was.

[24:14] There was the concern about what to do for new policies. There was a moratorium on policies, as there always is after a particular crisis. When they were reissued, that language was removed. That might not seem like a problem for organizations with no real risk.

[24:35] Janice says, in the risk management area, there were covenants in our client contracts, from language pulled from insurance policies, that now we couldn't satisfy that requirement. We were in violation of our contract.

[24:54] Janice says the more critical issues were loan agreements and mortgages. Lenders required terrorism insurance. They weren't going to take that out after 9/11. We were faced with a terrible conundrum. We were in violation of our loan agreements.

[25:16] Janice says nobody moved quickly to foreclose on any of those things, but it was hanging over our heads. Unsuccessful efforts to renegotiate were going on, all across the country. Congress was absolutely unwilling to become the Federal program for terrorism.

[25:39] Janice says Congress refused to consider it being another flood insurance program because that wasn't going too well. Insurers started trying to figure things out and made some limited amounts of coverage available.

[25:55] At one point, globally, there was $10 million of terrorism coverage available. $10 million didn't satisfy anybody's loan requirement. Ultimately, it went up to $25 million, but it was still a problem.

[26:24] Organizations like the Real Estate Round Table, RIMS, and other groups formed coalitions. Jim McIntyre was very helpful. He had contacts in all those groups. He inserted RIMS wherever he could.

[26:49] JLL saw the basic need for what Janice was doing at RIMS, so she had carte blanche to go to Washington whenever she needed to work on these matters. These groups were able to explain to Congressional aides and the business press what things meant, in plain English.

[27:33] Januce says, you tell them, this building goes into foreclosure, and the guy running the coffee shop doesn't have a job anymore. Development and construction totally stop. Nothing was being built. That impacts all the trades and unions, so they joined the coalition.

[27:57] Unions became activists because their members, who thought they had jobs starting over the next several months, were now sitting on their hands with nothing to do. Small businesses set up around the potential sites had nothing happening.

[28:18] Janice says there was a financial impact from that decision by insurers. It wasn't a faulty decision; they had shareholders.

[28:33] Ultimately, after long discussions and negotiations, Janice testified before the President's Working Group on Terrorism, and before Congress, and met with Congressional Aides who were working on various bills, and was able to assist in passing TRIA.

[28:58] TRIA wasn't perfect, but what it did was bring together the three major parties who had the most skin in that game and gave each of them a relative amount of financial responsibility in what happened.

[29:12] These parties were the policyholders, with huge deductibles; insurance companies, with caps and reasonable premium allocations for risks, and the Federal Government, which came in after tens of millions of dollars had been paid out and criteria were met.

[29:45] The Federal Government wasn't being capricious, or taking first-dollar risk, but was a backstop, so that there wouldn't be financial ruin and we wouldn't have a lot of bankruptcies. Imperfect as TRIA was, it solved a problem.

[30:06] Janice says there have been several reauthorizations, and it has been tweaked each time to meet the issues and criteria that had to be met. Justin asks about cyber and forms of terrorism that may not be physical acts of terrorism.

[30:31] Janice mentions the NBCR, for Nuclear, Biological, Chemical, and Radiological threats. It raised the issue, and there were risk management processes that were able to minimize those risks.

[30:49] One more Quick Break! RIMS, The Foundation for Risk ManagementTM, is dedicated to shaping the future of the profession. By making a contribution, you are strengthening the global risk management community and investing in the future of the industry.

[31:09] The Foundation also supports the Spencer Educational Foundation but has a different mission. The Foundation focuses on providing opportunities for those professionals who have already decided to enter risk management and are just getting started.

[31:23] You can learn more about the Foundation by visiting www.RIMS.org/FRM.

While you're there, be sure to check out information about the Susan Meltzer Scholarship Fund, which was established to honor Ms. Meltzer, who was RIMS President in 1999 and 2000.

[31:42] Susan Meltzer was a cherished RIMS President and contributed so much to RIMS and the greater risk community. Learn more at RIMS.org/FRM.

[31:51] Let's Return to Our Interview with Former RIMS President Janice Ochenkowski.

[32:12] Janice says meeting with Congressional Aides and Policymakers on Capitol Hill was intimidating the first hundred times she did it. You're walking into these buildings that you've only seen photographs of. You're going into the offices.

[32:24] Jim McIntyre had explained to her that Congressional aides have a lot of power over the bills and the language in the bills. The Congresspeople they work for look to these aides to be their technical resource.

[32:42] While some people were angry that they couldn't meet with the principal; they were only going to meet with the staff, but you want to meet with the staff.

[32:57] The staff will take the time to sit down with language and work with you on it, and you'll have a better chance of impacting things by developing relationships with them. It worked very well. Some of the work Janice did with Jim before 9/11 really helped.

[33:22] There was some insurance legislation that was going on. Aides did not understand what it meant. Janice ran a lunch program for the aides and taught them the basics of insurance. She bought pizzas for them. Now, you can't do that because you can't buy them lunch.

[33:44] Janice says they were coming to learn. Many of them were thankful because it gave them an understanding of what people were talking about and why certain things mattered. We had built some groundwork before TRIA. It helped because I already knew some of the aides.

[34:00] There were already relationships. They were willing to sit down and talk with us. We were the voice of the insurance buyer. Previously, when insurance matters were discussed on the Hill, insurance companies and brokers were lobbying. This time, it was the voice of the buyer.

[34:29] Janice says, We were constituents. We represented industries and organizations that were in their respective districts. Our voice became an important voice, distinct from the insurance industry. It reinforced RIMS's importance and raised our visibility on the Hill.

[34:58] In 2004, Janice testified before a Senate Government Affairs Subcommittee on Insurance Brokerage Regulation regarding TRIA. Janice says, walking in, she was overcome with a sense of history. The panel was people she had seen on C-SPAN.

[35:26] Janice says she was terrified she would say something wrong, that it would come out backwards, and that she would embarrass RIMS, JLL, and herself. She was used to speaking in public, but this was just different. It all went well in the end.

[35:55] Janice says she had a prepared statement. Then there were five-minute questions and answers. Janice says there is a clock counting down, and when it gets to one minute, it starts flashing. She says it was a little unnerving and she stuttered a few times.

[36:33] Janice says they interrupt your five minutes with questions, so your time is less. You're supposed to summarize what your position is and what you're testifying for. When you're on a panel, it's not the same as when they're conducting a hearing, accusing you of wrongdoing.

[37:02] Janice says the Congress Members are trying to get information and a few sound bites to send home. It's not antagonistic. They're not trying to trip you up on anything. Once you become accustomed to it, the next time is a little easier, because you're relaxed.

[37:29] In 2006, Janice appeared before the House Subcommittee on Financial Services about Insurance Modernization. Janice says it was a topic that she had a lot of comfort in speaking about. She wasn't quite as nervous about getting the facts mixed up or totally blanking.

[38:05] Janice says she was part of a panel of five or six people. It's for an hour or so. They might pause if somebody has to take a call.

[38:36] Janice became RIMS President soon after.

[38:52] In 2012, Janice returned to Capitol Hill for a hearing before the Subcommittee on Insurance, Housing, and Community Opportunity of the Committee on Financial Services in the U.S. House of Representatives.

[39:08] Janice says she always spoke in RIMS's capacity. JLL did not do any lobbying. JLL joins groups, like the Real Estate Round Table, RIMS, and other groups that represent their interests.

[39:36] Janice says that for the 2012 visit she had a greater comfort level. It was on an issue she was comfortable with: broker compensation. It was easier to discuss. She still had the same anxieties about being in Congress, in that room, with all the history, speaking to icons.

[40:23] Justin says that TRIA was eventually passed. It's been reauthorized a couple of times. It has made a difference for companies and for society, at large. Janice says it raised RIMS's profile in the eyes of the others who were participating and testifying.

[40:46] Janice says RIMS got a lot of press. The Wall Street Journal and the business press, in addition to insurance publications, presented information about RIMS. On a corporate level, when Janice's name was printed in association with JLL, clients asked about it.

[41:18] Janice says, with things like TRIA, or general insurance questions, clients would go to their risk managers and ask them to contact me to get information. This delighted JLL because it was a closer client relationship. JLL had an initiative to provide specialist experts for clients.

[42:23] Janice says if you go before Congress, the most important thing is to do your homework. Even if you're comfortable with public speaking, don't expect you can ad-lib to a Committee. Prepare, prepare, prepare, and understand the pros and cons. Practice with potential questions.

[43:06] Janice practices loudly to learn what word combinations she stumbles over. Then she removes them from her presentation. She says when you're more prepared, you're more self-confident. That makes you a better presenter. Justin says, also, rehearse in different places.

[44:29] Janice takes a somewhat formal draft and then "Janicizes" it. She writes it in a way that's more conversational, as she would speak, rather than reading something formally. That makes you more comfortable, so you're a better presenter.

[45:22] Janice says it seems that everybody knows when it's time to pass the baton to the next generation. She loved what she did, and she did it well; she was open to new ideas, but she was standing in the way of the next generation of leaders moving forward. She didn't want to do that.

[45:55] Janice says that people with new ideas, generational ideas, who could relate to what's coming up, need to be allowed to move forward.

[46:12] Janice says, think about what's happening in Washington. People need to move aside to let a new generation of leaders come in. Otherwise, you're missing that energy and enthusiasm of a new group of leaders. That's life. You move away and let the new guy in.

[47:05] Webinars: On September 17th, AXA XL returns to present the session, "Beyond the Loss Count: What Property Claims Reveal About Frequency, Severity, and Resilience."

[47:16] On October 1st, Brown and Brown will make their RIMS Webinar debut with "The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Think About Now."

[47:26] On October 8th, Global Risk Consultants will present "The 2027 Risk Agenda: 10 Engineering Priorities Risk Leaders Should Act on Now."

[47:35] On October 15th, Verisk Maplecroft will lead the session, "Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight."

[47:44] On October 22nd, Zurich will present "Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders."

[47:53] Origami Risk will return on October 29th with a topic that will be announced soon.

[47:58] On November 5th, Riskonnect returns to deliver the session, "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics."

[48:05] RIMS Certification Week will be held from September 21st through the 25th. All three webinars are complimentary for all and are available through the Webinars Page on RIMS.org/Webinars.

[48:21] Let's Conclude Our Interview with Former RIMS President Janice Ochenkowski!

[48:34] Justin says Janice became RIMS President during the housing and mortgage crisis of 2007-2008. Janice says it's something risk managers need to think about. When there is a crisis, you don't step away from it; you step into it. You show leadership.

[49:17] Janice says she was able to help resolve something that was one of the most critical issues at that time. At the beginning, the financial crisis focused on AIG and its vulnerability to bankruptcy, and what that meant to the entire insurance industry.

[49:47] Janice says it was really difficult because AIG was a major insurer for almost every large corporation in the U.S. and globally. Suddenly, senior board members were wondering if their claims in process would be paid. Will AIG go bankrupt, and what will happen to those claims?

[50:15] They wondered if they should cancel their policies mid-term and underwrite with someone else, and if so, who? What will the financial impact of that be? Boards were coming to risk managers with those questions. Janice had those questions herself.

[50:35] Janice says we were totally unprepared to answer them. We didn't have any more information than you were reading in The Wall Street Journal. Janice and the phenomenal RIMS staff put together a series of podcasts, the first of which was in three weeks.

[50:59] Janice says they got sponsors and speakers. They contacted experts in various areas and senior executives at the major insurers, including AIG, and insurance brokerages. They were willing to sit and talk to their clients and to be shown as thought leaders in the area.

[51:20] Janice says at the time there were 1,000 talking heads saying what should be done, but there were very few facts. You can't form a good risk management response to anything until you have facts; until you have data you can rely on and move forward with.

[51:50] Janice says RIMS strove to provide facts. When they did the podcasts, they did not only invite RIMS members. They sent invitations to the C-Suites of major corporations. They told The Wall Street Journal and other business publications they were running these podcasts.

[52:06] There was a series of podcasts. People tuned in. They were interested. RIMS established credibility with the information they provided. RIMS gave them tools and told them what to think about and consider, and what the ramifications could be, and let them decide for themselves.

[52:55] Janice says that it seemed to be a popular series, and it raised RIMS's profile within the general business community and the C-Suite, even in areas that didn't have dedicated risk managers who reported to the C-Suite. It was one of the most important things RIMS did.

[53:25] Janice says, then they went to Congress and talked to them about solvency and more. Also, Janice says they kept in touch with Congressional staff between meetings. The key to relationships on the Hill is meeting with aides. Many move from one Congressperson to another.

[53:49] You keep up the relationships, and that gives your organization credibility. You're there consistently. Once an aide called and asked her to help define risk management for a piece of legislation. They had no real idea. She helped them craft something reasonable but not onerous.

[55:14] Justin brings up the RIMS Annual Legislative Summit. They have a presence on Capitol Hill every year. It's a two-day or two-and-a-half-day event, so members who attend can get onboarded, know their talking points, and know the issues. Janice elaborates on preparation.

[56:15] Janice says the Legislative Summit brought a lot of people from local RIMS chapters into the External Affairs Committee. That was a good pipeline.

[56:31] Justin says his experience in 2018, for the reauthorization of the National Flood Insurance Program, was everything Janice mentioned. There was a small card with talking points, there was a rehearsal, coaching from professional lobbyists, and industry leadership.

[57:10] Justin says it was a great experience. They met with aides, brought maps, and showed flood zones. They had the talking points down, and it was effective. It was one of the best experiences he could have had as a new RIMS staff member. It was excellent.

[57:59] Justin remarks that Janice was the right person for the job. Her experience at Jones Lang LaSalle was terrific. Janice was a lifer. She retired in 2018, after 38 years.

[58:46] Janice says risk management has certain basic things, but you have to evolve with the times. You can't resist change; you have to look at change as an opportunity.

[59:00] If you're a smart risk manager, you're going to lean your company into that opportunity. Janice says, when people were working in her generation of RIMS, it wasn't unusual to spend a career at one or two companies. There was stability. You didn't need to leave to be promoted.

[59:26] Janice became a Partner. When they were incorporated, she became an officer. When she ended her career, she was an Executive Vice President and part of the Global Operating Team, which set strategies for all JLL businesses. They reported directly to the Board.

[59:51] Janice says risk management had a fairly high profile. New risk officers may not have that opportunity because the business world is demanding that you move every three to five years to get promoted.

[1:00:23] Janice says whatever works for you and your organization and helps you move forward is what your personal strategy needs to be. Janice says, not only those who died in the towers, in the Pentagon, and in the field, but those who walked away with scars, visible and invisible.

[1:00:40] Justin takes a moment to address and honor everyone who lost their lives during the 9/11/2001 terrorist attacks, on its 25th anniversary.

[1:01:04] Janice speaks of the first responders and volunteers who rushed in to help and walked away with lifelong consequences from the materials that they inhaled.

[1:01:19] Janice says, We just need to spend a few minutes on 9/12 remembering them and making sure that the relevance and their sacrifices are noted.

[1:01:36] Janice, you've given us so much inspiration, and told us what it took for you to be an effective RIMS President. To anyone thinking about pursuing a leadership role at RIMS, starting out now, what advantages do they have to position them for success as a RIMS leader?

[1:02:06] Janice says, the most important benefit that exists today, that didn't when I was starting, is technology. Today we do Zoom calls. Getting together and communicating was much more onerous.

[1:02:23] It wasn't as easy to get people from across the country together and work collaboratively. We can do that easily now. People are taking advantage of that. They're using social media to spread ideas.

[1:02:41] Janice says her generation struggled with social media. She did it because that's what she had to do. You can't stagnate. You've got to move with the changes as they come and figure out how to use those changes to move yourself forward.

[1:02:58] What will technology and AI mean to risk management? What will they mean to RIMS? How is RIMS going to use AI? How is RIMS leadership going to use AI to promote what the important basics of risk management are and can be? Those are things you have to consider.

[1:03:18] In order to be an effective leader at RIMS, you have to get the absolute support of your organization. You've got to connect those dots. You've got to show how and why your leadership at RIMS is going to benefit your company.

[1:03:42] Telling your leadership you're going to a conference is not going to convince them that there's anything important going on.

[1:03:56] The way to convince them is to tell them there's a conference. These are the sessions that they're going to have. This is the speaker they will have. That speaker is someone I think will tell me information about how to address this issue.

[1:04:13] This session is about an issue that we faced last year. I want to go and see how others are doing with it. The next step is to come back and write a note telling leaders what you learned in that session. Ask, Can I meet with you to talk about these things I think we can implement?

[1:04:42] You're showing that you're taking the information you're learning and using it to improve risk management in your company, and more importantly, the business of the business you are working in.

[1:05:00] When Janice was President, she would visit a chapter and ask everybody who's in the insurance industry to raise their hands. They would raise their hands. Then she told them, no, you use the products of the insurance industry, but you are your company's representative.

[1:05:51] Janice Ochenkowski, thank you so much for all your time and your insight today. It's such a pleasure to meet you face-to-face, and I hope we get to do that in person at a future RIMS event.

[1:06:06] Special thanks again to former RIMS President Janice Ochenkowski for joining us here on RIMScast! This was a lot of fun, and there are plenty of great takeaways about TRIA, RIMS, public speaking, and honoring the victims of the 9/11/2001 terrorist attacks.

[1:05:26] It was a real pleasure to meet Janice Ochenkowski, one of our most revered leaders.

[1:06:30] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email [email protected] for more information.

[1:06:48] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[1:07:04] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.

[1:07:17] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at [email protected].

[1:07:29] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!

Links:

Spencer Educational Foundation's 2026 Funding Their Future Gala | Sept. 17, 2026

ChicagoLand Risk Forum | Sept. 24, 2026

RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 21‒24 | Complimentary For All

RIMS Western Regional Conference — Oct. 4‒7, 2026 | Seattle, WA | Register Today.

RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | www.rimscanadaconference.ca | Sponsorship Opportunities Available

RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | www.rims.org/ERM2026

RISKWORLD 2027 Registration

RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live — Watch the new video with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau.

The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center

RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management

Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines.

RIMS Now

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan!

RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council

RIMS-CRMP Stories

RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy

RIMScast on YouTube!

RIMS Risk Management magazine | Contribute | Q2 2026 Issue Now Available

Sponsor RIMScast — [email protected]

Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops:

Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule

See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops

Upcoming RIMS Webinars:

RIMS.org/Webinars

"RIMS Student Series: Classroom to Career Part 2" | Sept 9 | Complimentary for all

"Beyond the Loss Count: What Property Claims Reveal About Frequency, Severity and Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL | Sept. 17, 2026

"RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 22‒24" | Complimentary for All

"The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Be Thinking About Now" | Sponsored by Brown & Brown | Oct. 1, 2026

"The 2027 Risk Agenda: 10 Engineering Priorities Risk Leaders Should Act on Now" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants | Oct. 8, 2026

"Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight" | Sponsored by Verisk Maplecroft | Oct. 15, 2026

"Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders" | Sponsored by Zurich | Oct. 22, 2026

"Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics" | Sponsored by Riskonnect | Nov. 5, 2026

Related RIMScast Episodes:

"Opening Windows of Tolerance with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau"

"When Geopolitics Hits the Balance Sheet with Cari Stinebower"

"RIMS Advocacy in 2026 with Mark Prysock"

Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:

"48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before A Hurricane Strikes" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company (New!)

"AI-Scale, Risk Ready: Engineering Controls for the New Data Center Boom" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Facing Into Risk: Navigating the New Risk Landscape" (New!) | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Secondary Perils, Major Risks: The New Face of Weather-Related Challenges" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"The ART of Risk: Rethinking Risk Through Insight, Design, and Innovation" | Sponsored by Alliant

"Mastering ERM: Leveraging Internal and External Risk Factors" | Sponsored by Diligent

"Cyberrisk: Preparing Beyond 2025" | Sponsored by Alliant

"The New Reality of Risk Engineering: From Code Compliance to Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Change Management: AI's Role in Loss Control and Property Insurance" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

Demystifying Multinational Fronting Insurance Programs | Sponsored by Zurich

"Understanding Third-Party Litigation Funding" | Sponsored by Zurich

"What Risk Managers Can Learn From School Shootings" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Simplifying the Challenges of OSHA Recordkeeping" | Sponsored by Medcor

"How Insurance Builds Resilience Against an Active Assailant Attack" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Third-Party and Cyber Risk Management Tips" | Sponsored by Alliant

RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community!

RIMS Virtual Workshops

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RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy

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RIMS-CRMP Stories — Featuring RIMS President Manny Padilla!

RIMS Events, Education, and Services:

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Sponsor RIMScast: Contact [email protected] or [email protected] for more information.

Want to Learn More?

Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org, and listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

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Join the Conversation!

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About our guest: Janice Ochenkowski, Former RIMS President

Special introduction by RIMS CEO Gary LaBranche

Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews Lawanda "Elle Michell" Hall about working with Spencer Educational Foundation. They discuss experiences outside the classroom, including mentoring, conferences, and responsible communication with industry professionals. They discuss the importance of participating actively in conferences, not just sitting there. Lawanda shares some of the gaps she sees between students' preparation and the readiness employers will expect from them. She explains how coaching can prepare them for entering the risk management workplace. Lawanda encourages RIMS chapters to give the mic to students so they can understand the importance of their voice.

Listen for wisdom on listening without judgment and communicating responsibly.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.

[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. Our guest is Lawanda "Elle Michell" Hall. She is a risk management student mentor. She is going to talk about how she is helping to guide the next generation of risk management professionals. But first…

[:45] RIMS-CRMP! RIMS Certification Week will be held from September 21st through the 25th. A link to the week's events is on this episode's show notes, including three free webinars. The week is a global celebration of the RIMS Certified Risk Management Professional certification.

[1:02] It is a virtual event for you to learn about the certification, how it can strengthen your career and organization, and understand how the RIMS-CRMP is helping shape the future of risk management. A link to Certification Week is in the show notes, or find it at RIMS.org/Webinars.

[1:20] On September 9th, the Classroom to Career series concludes. Join experienced risk professionals for an engaging discussion about what it's like to build a career in the field of risk management. This session is complimentary for members and nonmembers.

[1:38] Webinars: On September 17th, AXA XL returns to present the session, "Beyond the Loss Count: What Property Claims Reveal About Frequency, Severity, and Resilience."

[1:49] On October 1st, Brown and Brown will make their RIMS Webinar debut with "The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Think About Now."

[2:00] Global Risk Consultants will return on October 8th. Their topic will be announced soon.

[2:06] On October 15th, Verisk Maplecroft will lead the session, "Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight."

[2:15] Origami Risk will return on October 29th with a topic that will be announced soon.

[2:20] On November 5th, Riskonnect returns to deliver the session, "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics." Visit RIMS.org/Webinars to register.

[2:30] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!

[2:48] The Spencer Educational Foundation's Funding Their Future Gala will be held on September 17th at the newly renovated Waldorf Astoria in New York City. Visit SpencerEd.org and the link in this episode's show notes.

[3:05] On with the Show! I mentioned Spencer just now because one of our favorite Risk Managers on Campus is rejoining us here on RIMScast. I'm talking about Lawanda "Elle Michell" Hall. She is the CEO of Intelligent Intentions.

[3:21] We will talk about the habits, mindsets, and professional skills that are consistently distinguishing students who are making lasting impressions on recruiters and hiring managers, from those who need to sharpen their skills.

[3:34] Also, some of the trends she is seeing among risk students, habits that they need to develop, and some that they need to break. We're going to have a lot of fun! Let's get to it!

[3:44] Interview! Lawanda "Elle Michell" Hall, welcome back to RIMScast!

[4:09] Lawanda says students preparing for a risk career need a menu of options. The next step would be aligning their appetite to the options, having the courage to create something that may not be on the menu, and having the courage to ask for off-menu options.

[4:31] Lawanda says, as we navigate this industry, emerging technologies, and emerging risks, wrapping our minds around companies that don't exist yet and may come to exist, students look to the future, understanding that sometimes the options are not yet on the menu.

[4:57] Lawanda encourages them to keep an open mind, keep a creative posture, and have the courage to ask, what are they not seeing on the menu that could also be an option, or how they can co-create an option aligned with their interests but also what the industry needs from them.

[5:45] Lawanda and Justin agree that it is a heavy lift for students. Lawanda says students nowadays have such a broad reference that we didn't have, and that puts them in the position to be more creative and thoughtful about the future.

[5:57] Lawanda says, tech change is happening much more rapidly for students than it did for us. That gives them a different posture for looking into the future. There's new technology every year. Lawanda says, we didn't replace our cell phones every year. We didn't have cell phones.

[6:21] When we got cell phones, we weren't replacing them every year. Now, students are almost expected to update their technology annually. That's indicative of how they feel about the future, changes, and evolution. They have an accelerated understanding of the possibility of change.

[6:40] Lawanda says social media plays into it, where everybody has the latest and the greatest, and they think that they need to have the most updated thing. Lawanda says she gets anxious every time there's an update. Will she have to figure it out all over again? Chances are, yes.

[7:43] Lawanda says students embrace that change. They look forward to it, and they expect it. That gives them a different mindset around forward thinking.

[8:05] For experiential learning, Lawanda recommends coaching, attending conferences, and making sure students understand responsible communication with industry professionals. If you're not responsible and thoughtful about how you communicate, it can backfire.

[8:24] Lawanda says she coaches students before conferences. She helps them understand how to maximize that moment, and not just be sitting there or standing there like a wallflower. She wants them to maximize the moment in whatever way they can.

[8:43] Lawanda does coaching. She makes sure they attend conferences, not just the big ones, but also local events that are hosted by professional organizations, including RIMS. Students need coaching, conferences, and responsible communication with industry professionals.

[9:18] Justin comments that attending a large conference and speaking to people takes a certain degree of confidence. Justin asks if being in school during COVID prevented young people from picking up social cues and networking cues.

[10:00] Lawanda thinks that young people's social connections were declining before COVID due to social media. Students aren't communicating with each other. They text or use social media as armor to make them feel more comfortable and confident in their communication.

[10:22] Face-to-face interaction is awkward because they don't practice it amongst themselves or amongst the community. Lawanda says COVID amplified it, but it wasn't the beginning or the cause of it.

[10:38] Social media continues to create that challenge because students are comfortable on their phones and engaging in that space. When students show up, the confidence and courage don't translate from social media to the real world.

[11:01] Lawanda says students need to understand social etiquette and multi-generational communication and connection, the things we were taught because we didn't have a phone: you have to make eye contact, speak up so people can hear you; things we take for granted.

[12:11] Lawanda says she's very curious. She is intrigued by students, and she listens to them. She wants to hear what they have to say. She doesn't have to agree. She doesn't sit in a place of judgment or offense. If you don't listen to them, they are not willing to listen to you.

[12:46] From listening to students, Lawanda gains an understanding of their language so she can use their language to talk to them. It also shows her where their deficiencies are, so she can fill those gaps and help them understand how to take the next step toward their objectives.

[13:19] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026. The 11th Annual Chicagoland Risk Forum will return to the Old Post Office on Thursday, September 24th, 2026. Visit ChicagolandRiskForum.org for more information.

[13:34] The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit RIMSWesternRegional.com and the link in this episode's show notes for more information.

[13:51] Save the dates: October 18th through the 21st. In Quebec City, we will be hosting the 50th Annual RIMS Canada Conference. Booth sales are open, and sponsorship opportunities are still available. Visit RIMSCanadaConference.ca for more information.

[14:08] Also, remember to check out RIMS.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, hosted by National Conference Committee Chair, Aaron Lukoni.

[14:19] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration is open. Visit RIMS.org/ERM2026.

[14:32] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st!

[14:42] RIMS members can exclusively register by September 4th for the best rate. And get first access to the hotel block. Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk! The link to registration is in this episode's show notes.

[15:02] Let's Return to Our Interview with Lawanda Hall!

[15:19] When Lawanda works with students, she starts with the end in mind. What are their objectives? What are they trying to accomplish? This generation is very focused on getting things done. They're go-getters. Impact and results are what propel them.

[15:37] They may be stopped, like any human being, by not having the confidence or by fear of what people will think. Lawanda starts with the end in mind by focusing on getting it done. She coaches them through the process and gives them the benefit of her perspective.

[15:53] Lawanda reminds them that everybody they talk to are human beings, too. They're imperfect human beings. She tells them, they're here to listen to you because you have a perspective they're interested in. It's going to work out. It's a conversation. You're not on trial.

[16:14] Just think about the objective and keep it in mind to push through.

[16:49] Lawanda says students want immediate impact, as far as the next step or thing, and instant feedback, but not necessarily instant completion. If they have a big goal, or big things to accomplish, it's not going to happen in a moment.

[17:09] They want instant feedback. They don't want to be told they will figure it out later. Do they follow up? They want to know that this step is complete to get ready to go to the next step. Lawanda says that is realistic, and it accelerates what they're trying to accomplish.

[17:36] Justin says that his daughter zones out over context when she asks for help with her homework. She just wants the instant answer. That's the future workforce of the industry.

[18:23] Lawanda says the students don't value context as much as earlier generations. Our responsibility as a generation is to help them learn how to think. Critical thinking is a dying art. Lawanda challenges them on how to think things through.

[18:42] If they ask a question, Lawanda may ask them another question to help them think through it, and walk them through the thinking process, versus just giving them an answer. Also, she may use a reference that they have in their world.

[19:03] Lawanda has godchildren who are young enough to keep her fresh with what's popular. Lawanda likes to use a reference that's familiar to students, to pull them into the thinking game; thinking through a process. Just asking and getting the answer is not transformative.

[19:36] Justin says we don't want them always asking their phones for the answers. Lawanda says that flattens their thinking. It's important that we call them up to be critical thinkers.

[19:50] One More Quick Break! The Spencer Educational Foundation's Funding Their Future Gala 2026 will be held on September 17th in New York City at the Waldorf Astoria. This year's honorees are two of our recent guests, Sierra Signorelli of Zurich and Marya Propis of RT Specialty.

[20:14] A link to the Gala is in this episode's show notes.

[20:18] The Spencer Educational Foundation's Internship Grant applications opened on August 15th and will close on October 15th. A link to the Internship Grants page is in this episode's show notes. Visit SpencerEd.org for more information.

[20:39] Let's Conclude Our Interview with Lawanda Hall!

[21:16] Lawanda says there is a communication gap between generations. That's not new. Every generation has that gap of understanding, based on where they sit. The socio-emotional gap is new and growing, created partly by the helicopter parenting, everybody-gets-a-trophy approach.

[21:42] Lawanda says people who are entering the workforce are looking to work and contribute to make a living. People who are hiring are looking for that, too. They're looking for a good work ethic. The disconnect is in the how. The work they do hasn't changed as much as how they do it.

[22:09] Lawanda has heard of people bringing their parents to work to advocate on their behalf because they don't have the courage to have the conversation with their boss. She has heard of this generation bringing their parents into interviews, because they're not sure what to do.

[22:50] Lawanda leans into her curiosity and asks, How did we get here? Why are students not courageous enough or able to do these things on their own in their early 20s? She has questions of parents and questions of students, and the educational institutions? What are we not doing?

[23:21] Lawanda says we have co-created this. We can't just put it on the students. They didn't raise themselves. They're not in a silo. We have to look at the entire environment and ask, Who contributed, how, and why?

[23:40] Lawanda continues, Why are we here where we don't have adults who have the courage to show up in the way that they have in generations past? Justin displays his shock at the scenario. Lawanda doesn't know if the parents volunteer or if the students ask them to go.

[24:39] Lawanda wants to examine that construct and ask what's going on here. Parents have gone from coaching to coddling. Lawanda says that's a big contributor to students' inability to sit as an adult with other adults, have courageous conversations, and show up with confidence.

[25:08] Lawanda says if she had asked one of her parents to go to an interview with her, they would have laughed and told her she was crazy. They would not have entertained that. Why are parents doing it? These children did not raise themselves.

[25:24] Lawanda says coaching is very important. When she coaches students for an hour, she can see the shift in their understanding. They're getting information, agency, and authority over their being that they didn't have before she talked to them.

[25:40] Lawanda says, for some reason, there are parents who are not handing over agency and authority to students at the time that they need to, so you have 25- and 30-year-old teenagers who don't understand how to adult in the workforce. That is a big disconnect.

[26:05] Lawanda says students are smart and capable of doing the work. How they show up for work, and the socio-emotional disconnect, is one of the biggest challenges for this generation of students and employees. It feels like babysitting. A business is not a day-care.

[26:29] Lawanda says, you want them to come in, do work, and contribute, without having to feel like you need a whole team of Social Workers in HR to make sure that employees are OK. That's counterproductive and antithetical to adulting and what you expect from an adult.

[27:35] Lawanda says judgment and criticism create more distance. Our goal is not to create more distance, but to close the gap, embrace them, bring them forward, and call them up into their power, into their authority, and hand over the agency to them, so that they understand.

[27:48] It's not that they can't do it. They haven't been given permission to do it. They lack social opportunities in their everyday life, the things we took for granted, like going outside and playing kickball and hanging out with other kids.

[28:06] You learn so much in that space. Your confidence grows, your courage grows, your problem-solving skills, and your thinking skills; all these things are taking place. These students aren't getting that.

[28:17] They're in their room on their phones, scrolling, hearing opinions, giving opinions, being judged, judging, and not socializing. Justin says, it's all noise; it's not constructive. There's a difference between controlled chaos and chaos. Justin will not sit in on his kid's job interviews.

[28:40] Lawanda says it starts before job interviews. At some point, you hand over the agency and say, you handle that on your own and then come back and tell me how it worked out. If you need me to come, I will, but you do it first, and let's see how it works out.

[29:27] In restaurants, Justin makes sure that his children deal with the server. They hear and speak, and they know what they want. He doesn't speak for them.

[29:43] Lawanda says that when you speak for your children forever, you never hand them their agency. You teach them that their voice is not valuable, that their voice doesn't matter, and that they don't have to think or speak up for themselves. That's not healthy evolution.

[30:40] Lawanda says Spencer Educational Foundation is amazing. They do more than write checks. They embrace experiences for students. They give them opportunities to engage in industry exposure. They are great at holding folks accountable for how they spend the money.

[31:08] Spencer Educational Foundation makes sure their dollars have wings, that evolution and growth are happening, and whatever the intention is for the money, that it is happening within the organizations and institutions they support.

[31:26] Lawanda says this creates accountability and an environment of respect, generation after generation. Lawanda is happy to be part of the Spencer family. She also encourages others to be part of the Spencer family.

[31:51] Lawanda says Spencer Educational Foundation is a place that operates with amazing integrity; she knows it will be around for a long time, just based on how they do business; not just what they do, but also how they do it.

[32:07] Lawanda says, Spencer Educational Foundation is a beautiful investment of not just dollars, but also understanding, and a beautiful culture of accountability.

[32:24] Lawanda is in Atlanta, Georgia. Justin mentions that RIMS has a very active chapter in Atlanta. Justin asks Lawanda what she would hope every RIMS chapter listening today would do to better support students and strengthen the next generation of risk professionals,

[32:48] Lawanda says, it's simple, but it's a big impact: Give the mic to the students. Lawanda has been in RIMS since she was in college. One thing the Atlanta chapter did was to have a session where students would do a case study on a topic and present it to the professionals.

[33:12] Lawanda says every year, students had an opportunity to present their case study. When Lawanda was in school, they presented on TRIA because it was new. The professionals wanted to know more about it, so the students worked with professors to understand it and prepare it.

[34:01] Lawanda says, We were able to present that to them and add value to their experiences, and also add a tremendous amount of confidence that encouraged the students to know they were valuable to the professionals, and the professionals were valuable to the students.

[34:14] Lawanda says we have to be open to allowing ourselves to learn from the students and value their voice. When we value their voice, it calls them to understand the importance of their voice and having agency over their voice. That's one thing chapters can do to help students.

[34:54] Justin is glad Lawanda brought up the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act (TRIA), because next week's guest is former RIMS President Janice Ochenkowski, who was instrumental in helping Congress understand the importance of TRIA in its earliest stages.

[35:08] Next week we are going to commemorate the 25th anniversary of the September 11th terrorist attacks, here on RIMScast with her.

[35:22] Lawanda says in 25 years, she went from being mentored to being a mentor; Impact does not come in a one-size-fits-all package. You can have impact in a five-minute conversation and give them the opportunity to learn from your missteps or your mistakes in the industry.

[35:50] You can have a longer relationship as a mentor, where you do check-ins and touchpoints, and kind of coach and cultivate, and help someone to understand what their possibilities are in different segments of their career.

[36:08] Lawanda says she has understood that just because things are packaged a certain way doesn't mean that's the only packaging it can exist in. Micromentoring is valuable because not everyone has the capacity to take on a mentor for a year or six months.

[36:34] Lawanda says if you encounter somebody, and spend three to five minutes with them, and give them the benefit of a lesson that you've learned, it can be a seed that will blossom beautifully along the way. Understand that impact exists in a variety of packages.

[36:56] Justin says, It has been such a delight to see you! I hope to see you again at RISKWORLD 2027 in New Orleans. Lawanda says she loves New Orleans and looks forward to being in that space for some good, productive meetings, and some really good food.

[37:24] Lawanda, we appreciate all you do for our next generation of risk professionals. Your affiliation with Spencer is always valued. I look forward to seeing you in April!

[37:50] Special thanks again to Lawanda Hall for joining us here on RIMScast! A link to her prior RIMScast appearance is in this episode's show notes. She is one of our esteemed Risk Managers on Campus through the Spencer Educational Foundation's program.

[38:05] The deadline for the Spencer Educational Foundation's Risk Manager on Campus Grant has passed, but I've put up a link so you can plan for 2027.

[38:13] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email [email protected] for more information.

[38:31] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[38:47] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.

[39:01] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at [email protected].

[39:13] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!

Links:

"RIMS Student Series: Classroom to Career Part 1" | Sept 1 | Complimentary for all

"RIMS Student Series: Classroom to Career Part 2" | Sept 9 | Complimentary for all

Spencer Educational Foundation's 2026 Funding Their Future Gala | Sept. 17, 2026

ChicagoLand Risk Forum | Sept. 24, 2026

RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 21‒24 | Complimentary For All

RIMS Western Regional Conference — Oct. 4‒7, 2026 | Seattle, WA | Register Today.

RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | www.rimscanadaconference.ca | Sponsorship Opportunities Available

RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | www.rims.org/ERM2026 |

RISKWORLD 2027 Registration | RIMS members can lock in 2026 rates now through Sept. 4

RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live — Watch the new video with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau.

The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center

RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management

Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines.

RIMS Now

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan!

RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council

RIMS-CRMP Stories

RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy

RIMScast on YouTube!

RIMS Risk Management Magazine | Contribute | Q2 2026 Issue Now Available

Sponsor RIMScast — [email protected]

Lawanda "Elle Michell" Hall — Intelligent Intentions

Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops:

Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule

See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops

Upcoming RIMS Webinars:

RIMS.org/Webinars

"Beyond the Loss Count: What Property Claims Reveal About Frequency, Severity and Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL | Sept. 17, 2026

RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 22-24 | Complimentary For All

"The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Be Thinking About Now" | Sponsored by Brown & Brown | Oct. 1, 2026

"Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight" | Sponsored by Verisk Maplecroft | Oct. 15, 2026

"Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics" | Sponsored by Riskonnect | Nov. 5, 2026

Related RIMScast Episodes:

"Opening Windows of Tolerance with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau"

"Choosing the Challenge with Johnell Holly"

"A Menu of Risk Options with Elle Michell Hall" (2023)

Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:

"48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before a Hurricane Strikes" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company (New!)

"AI-Scale, Risk Ready: Engineering Controls for the New Data Center Boom" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Facing Into Risk: Navigating the New Risk Landscape" (New!) | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Secondary Perils, Major Risks: The New Face of Weather-Related Challenges" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"The ART of Risk: Rethinking Risk Through Insight, Design, and Innovation" | Sponsored by Alliant

"Mastering ERM: Leveraging Internal and External Risk Factors" | Sponsored by Diligent

"Cyberrisk: Preparing Beyond 2025" | Sponsored by Alliant

"The New Reality of Risk Engineering: From Code Compliance to Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Change Management: AI's Role in Loss Control and Property Insurance" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Demystifying Multinational Fronting Insurance Programs" | Sponsored by Zurich

"Understanding Third-Party Litigation Funding" | Sponsored by Zurich

"What Risk Managers Can Learn From School Shootings" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Simplifying the Challenges of OSHA Recordkeeping" | Sponsored by Medcor

"How Insurance Builds Resilience Against an Active Assailant Attack" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Third-Party and Cyber Risk Management Tips" | Sponsored by Alliant

RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

RIMS Membership — Whether you are a new member or need to transition, be a part of the global risk management community!

RIMS Virtual Workshops

On-Demand Webinars

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP)

RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy

RIMS Strategic & Enterprise Risk Center

RIMS-CRMP Stories — Featuring RIMS President Manny Padilla!

RIMS Events, Education, and Services:

RIMS Risk Maturity Model®

Sponsor RIMScast: Contact [email protected] or [email protected] for more information.

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About our guest: Lawanda "Elle Michell" Hall, CEO, Intelligent Intentions

Risk Manager on Campus

Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews Cari Stinebower about sanctions as an enterprise risk management issue. They discuss the holistic view of the maritime space and enterprise risk. They cover aspects of the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act (TRIA) and how insurance companies, brokers, and reinsurers work with the U.S. Government to mitigate terrorism risk.

Listen for advice on keeping your organization compliant with respect to sanctions and terrorism risk.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.

[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. We will discuss geopolitical risk, sanctions, and TRIA with Cari Stinebower, a partner in the Washington, D.C. office of Steptoe. But first…

[:42] RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops. RIMS will partner with PARIMA for the RIMS-CRMP on September 1st and 2nd for a two-day virtual workshop. Registration links are in this episode's show notes.

[:55] Also on the webinars page, you will see a two-part series hosted by the RIMS Membership Department. The "Classroom to Career" webinar series highlights how RIMS equips students with the knowledge, skills, and connections needed to thrive in risk management careers.

[1:10] Participants will gain insights into industry trends, career pathways, and practical tools that help them confidently step into the evolving world of risk management after graduation. These sessions will be hosted on September 1st and 9th.

[1:24] These sessions are member exclusives and are complimentary for RIMS members, of course. So, if you are interested in becoming a member, this would be the time. Visit RIMS.org/membership.

[1:34] Webinars: On September 17th, AXA XL returns to present the session, "Beyond the Loss Count: What Property Claims Reveal About Frequency, Severity, and Resilience."

[1:46] On October 1st, Brown and Brown will make their RIMS Webinar debut with "The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Think About Now." Visit RIMS.org/Webinars to register.

[1:59] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!

[2:17] On with the Show! Our guest today is Cari Stinebower. She is a partner at Steptoe in Washington, D.C., and a former U.S. Department of the Treasury and Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) Attorney-Adviser.

[2:32] Cari focuses her practice on regulatory risk where U.S. National Security and Foreign Policy objectives intersect with cross-border business.

[2:39] We will talk about fraud, money laundering detection, and cybersecurity, and how this can be connected to the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act (TRIA).

[2:50] We'll also talk about how international sanctions can impact any organization, and why risk managers should be strategizing now, if they haven't already. There is so much to discuss! Let's get to it!

[3:04] Interview! Cari Stinebower, welcome to RIMScast!

[3:24] Cari says she was at OFAC at an interesting time. She came in after a Hill job doing the campaign finance cleanup for the Democrats for three years, from 1996 to 1999.

[3:38] Cari says that OFAC sank their teeth into anti-money laundering and the detection of fraud and corruption. When Cari joined Treasury as an analyst within OFAC, they slotted her into a position focused on counter-narcotics work, and also on the Milošević tribunal.

[4:03] Cari says there was lots of work to do and not enough staff to do it. Everyone ot OFAC had then, and still has, multiple portfolios. Cari was splitting between Milošević and counter-narcotics work.

[4:20] Cari says she spent a lot of time in Colombia working with banks and the Colombian government on anti-money laundering, focused on the cartels. The drug dealers were very sophisticated and were spectacular at establishing front companies and money laundering.

[4:54] Cari says it was a very good lesson for what was to come through the counter-terrorism work. The Colombian narcotics traffickers and their front companies were light-years ahead on money laundering techniques and sanctions evasion.

[5:44] Cari says in Colombia, at that time, the narcotics traffickers were excellent businessmen. It was such a lucrative career that they had to find ways to wash the cash. They were buying agricultural businesses, tourism businesses, pharmacies; anything they could to launder cash.

[6:18] Cari says they could have been fabulous businessmen if they had gone legitimate. She says some of them tried.

[6:32] Cari says 9/11 happened, so the world changed overnight. Cari switched from a counter-narcotics focus to a counter-terrorism focus.

[6:44] They started chasing the money. Who was the source of the funds? Where was it going? Which financial institutions were involved? Were they doing it knowingly? Were they being used by governments? Were they being used by "charities"? How is it flowing?

[7:03] Cari says that became her focus at OFAC for the next five years after 0/11, before she hopped into the private sector.

[7:39] Justin asks about sanctions against nations. Cari says the old way Treasury used to do sanctions was by jurisdiction. A jurisdiction would be identified as prohibited, off-limits for U.S persons, meaning individuals and entities.

[8:01] Any funds, transactions, or contracts that came into the possession or control of the U.S. person or entity would, by operation of law, be blocked or frozen; the title remained with the sanctioned party, but the U.S. person or entity had to freeze it and report it to the Treasury.

[6:26] The original sanctions on Iran were jurisdictional, based on the government, based on persons located within the jurisdiction of Iran. The Department of the Treasury was aggressive in pursuing enforcement actions.

[8:44] Financial institutions were sanctioned with multi-million-dollar penalties. The world started to voluntarily comply. It was U.S. driven initially, but European financial institutions and some of the Emirati financial institutions got on board and complied with the sanctions.

[9:20] The Departments of the Treasury and Justice used a clause within the underlying statute for the Iran sanctions that allowed penalties to be imposed on non-U.S. financial institutions that were causing a U.S. bank to process transactions on behalf of the sanctioned party.

[9:43] That was the line of the European banking cases that came out. Cari says banks were penalized from 2005 through 2015, which pretty much swept in everyone.

[9:56] That was the modern buildout of the compliance program where the U.S. established it was applying its sanctions requirements not only to U.S. persons but to non-US. persons where they could also identify a nexus.

[10:12] The favorite nexus was the use of U.S. dollars through the clearing system. Sanctions exploded. It was identifying ways to reach non-U.S. parties through the use of dollars, servers located in the U.S., call centers, approvals, or whatever they could, as a hook to get U.S. nexus.

[10:51] Justin asks about sanctions against Russia, Iran, and North Korea. Cari says North Korea has sort of fallen off. There's a big focus on North Korea's use of forced labor. They've also been active in cyberspace and ransomware.

[11:20] Cari says we don't see North Korea as often as we see Iran, Russia, and, to a certain degree, Cuba. It depends on the administration. For a while, Venezuela was really hot, from an anti-corruption, anti-money-laundering perspective, rather than a sanctioned invasion.

[11:46] Justin speaks of the latest AML bill, passed in 2023. Cari says the big overhaul was under the Patriot Act, which updated and modernized the Bank Secrecy Act. It also updated and modernized the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA), OPEC's big statute.

[12:09] Cari says there have been updates since. When you hear M&A partners or private equity guys talking, they often refer back to the Patriot Act. The Patriot Act becomes this overarching term for updates to the AML laws and regulations.

[12:48] Cari says there has been a growing evolution of the anti-corruption, anti-bribery statutes, the anti-money-laundering statutes, the sanctions world, and the adjacents like the whistleblower protections and the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act.

[13:09] Cari says all of these components are part of this growing collective focus on upgrading U.S. Government abilities to protect against threats to national security and the economy.

[13:32] Justin says risk managers are accustomed to thinking about operational and financial risks, but sanctions can feel like a legal issue. Part of the problem is you may have a legal officer who is not a risk manager or a risk manager who is not a legal officer.

[13:48] Justin asks, When should sanctions become an Enterprise Risk Management issue? Cari says, looking at OFAC's enforcement actions, sanctions should always be an Enterprise Risk Management focus.

[14:04] It's very easy for the bad guys to take advantage of a business if it's siloed. The easiest way to detect a problem, whether it's financial sanctions evasion or exposure to corruption, is if the enterprise is looking holistically at its business, its counterparties, and its transactions.

[14:26] Cari says, when we're working with clients on building a global compliance policy or procedure, we keep telling them that it's better to have a holistic view of the business, customers, and geography.

[14:43] Not only geographic risk, customer risk, or service risk, but also across the regulatory schemes. If you have sanctions exposure somewhere in your enterprise, you're also likely going to have an anti-money-laundering issue, a corruption issue, and/or an export controls issue.

[15:06] Cari says when you're building out compliance, you want to have a 1,000-foot view of the business units, your customers, your geographies, and the regulatory components, so that you can take advantage of what you may be seeing in one area. It's silos that cause the problems.

[15:26] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026. The 11th Annual Chicagoland Risk Forum will return to the Old Post Office on Thursday, September 24th, 2026. Visit ChicagolandRiskForum.org for more information.

[15:42] The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit RIMSWesternRegional.com and the link in this episode's show notes for more information.

[15:59] Save the dates: October 18th through the 21st. In Quebec City, we will be hosting the 50th Annual RIMS Canada Conference. Booth sales are open, and sponsorship opportunities are still available. Visit RIMSCanadaConference.ca for more information.

[16:16] Also, remember to check out RIMS.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, hosted by National Conference Committee Chair, Aaron Lukoni.

[16:27] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration is open. Visit RIMS.org/ERM2026.

[16:40] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st!

[16:50] RIMS members can exclusively register by September 4th for the best rate. And get first access to the hotel block. Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk! The link to registration is in this episode's show notes.

[17:10] Let's Return to Our Interview with Cari Stinebower!

[17:26] Cari says an example of sanctions risk is Iranian oil or Venezuelan oil. Typically, the pattern is you have a Greek shipment manager under charter to deliver oil and gas to China.

The Bill of Lading says the cargo is of Omani origin or Malaysian blend.

[18:08] It looks clean. They have all the sanctions exclusions language in the Charter Agreement; the insurers, the reinsurers, and the P&I quotes have all established that the vessel cannot carry Iranian cargo. The documents say it's Omani or Malaysian, and off you go.

[18:28] Then you get a call from the U.S. State Department or the Treasury Department saying you've got Iranian cargo on board. The U.S. Government typically knows that because they're using satellite tracking software. They know that the cargo was loaded by ship-to-ship transfer.

[18:58] If you go back through the satellite imagery, you can see that it's happened probably two or three times, and when the vessel called on the Omani port that was supposed to be the source of the cargo, it came in at the same draft as it left. Calling on the port was clearly a ruse.

[19:34] When you get to the financial payments, that's where you have the money laundering side, and you can see that the Omani seller of the cargo is just a front company with a brand new website, secretly run by the Revolutionary Guard.

[19:56] Cari says that when we start talking about the compliance policies and procedures, it's not good enough just to rely on the Bill of Lading. The expectation is that you're going to be doing something a little deeper.

[20:11] In 2019, the Department of Justice started to pursue a lot of ship owners and ship managers for carrying Iranian cargo. Sometimes it was Iranian cargo going to Venezuela or going to China.

[20:32] In a decent batch of those cases, the ship owners or ship managers would be contacted by the U.S. Government and agree that the Government was right and ask what they could do not to get sanctioned.

[20:51] Cari says there were a series of cases where the ships were brought to the U.S. and the cargo was sold by the U.S. Government, with the proceeds going to the Victims of Terrorism Fund, for parties who registered with the Special Master and were entitled to a pro rata share.

[21:20] That was the U.S. Government's solution to what to do with all this cargo that they can seize, and they had been seizing, under the Foreign Terrorist Organization Statute. We're now seeing the same focus on the narcotics trafficking cartels in Mexico, Brazil, and Venezuela.

[21:46] Cari says, You see the evolution of the U.S. Government's thinking over the years, how the Iranian oil cases are now relevant to countering narcotics trafficking caused by the cartels in South America.

[22:00] Justin asks about supply chain risk and sanctions-related risks companies may overlook when they evaluate suppliers. Cari says the supply chain, particularly when you're dealing with raw materials or manufacturers coming out of China, has been an issue for a long time.

[22:29] Cari says it's not difficult for a U.S. importer who's bringing in parts and components for widgets to know that their manufacturer or warehouse in China is who they say they are. That's easy enough.

[22:48] Where we see issues is when the Chinese manufacturer subcontracts to second or third parties, who ostensibly are also compliant, but it becomes difficult in a more opaque jurisdiction like China to do the tracing down to the actual mine or source of the raw materials.

[23:14] That leads up to the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act (UFLPA), which has forced companies to look at supply chains where there's a Chinese component, for several years.

[23:31] Where are the raw materials coming from? Do you know where all of the raw materials are coming from, or do you just know where some are? Under the UFLPA, companies were particularly focused on identifying those risks in China.

[23:50] Cari says, under the first Trump Administration, and under the Biden Administration, you started to see a lot of companies moving away from sole-sourcing goods from China, specifically because of that risk.

[24:02] The National Drug Control Strategy Report that came out in May 2026 is digging deep into supply chain issues.

[24:13] It says two things: first, that the U.S. Government needs to act as a whole. The Departments of Justice, Treasury, and Homeland Security need to work together on tackling supply chain issues and addressing where the gaps are.

[24:35] Supply chains are being exploited, not only by narcotics traffickers, but across the board.

[24:41] The report is also telling businesses that it's not enough to have an OFAC sanctions compliance program where you screen your counterparties against the SDN list.

[24:54] There's an expectation for businesses to go deeper, using analytics and AI, looking at their records, and knowing who the suppliers of their suppliers are. [25:17] The expectation is for businesses to step up their game, but also for the U.S. Government to partner with businesses to figure out how to do that.

[25:35] Cari says we've also been telling other jurisdictions, like those in the Caribbean and South America, that this is a really good opportunity.

[26:44] The first Trump Administration, the Biden Administration, and the second Trump Administration have said to stop sole-sourcing in China. Let's near-shore and friend-shore, and let's bring business and infrastructure back to the Western Hemisphere.

[26:00] Cari says we're starting to see jurisdictions offer tax incentives for setting up manufacturing spaces, or finding ways to invest in the United States to bring back manufacturing.

[26:14] Cari says the big issue of late has been how to bring shipbuilding back to the United States. Is there a way to do it in Latin America without relying on China as the major shipyard? [26:29] Those issues are interesting because they trigger a series of other questions: cost of labor, sourcing raw materials, and more. It's a longer-term problem. If you're building out your supply chain nose-to-tail, it's going to require a more transparent jurisdiction than China.

[26:52] One more Quick Break! RIMS, The Foundation for Risk ManagementTM, is dedicated to shaping the future of the profession. By making a contribution, you are strengthening the global risk management community and investing in the future of the industry.

[27:11] The Foundation also supports the Spencer Educational Foundation but has a different mission. The Foundation focuses on providing opportunities for those professionals who have already decided to enter risk management and are just getting started.

[27:26] You can learn more about the Foundation by visiting www.RIMS.org/FRM.

While you're there, be sure to check out information about the Susan Meltzer Scholarship Fund, which was established to honor Ms. Meltzer, who was RIMS President in 1999 and 2000.

[27:44] Susan Meltzer was a cherished RIMS President and contributed so much to RIMS and the greater risk community. Learn more at RIMS.org/FRM.

[27:53] Let's return to our interview with Cari Stinebower!

[28:14] Justin asks if other countries sanction the United States or U.S. companies. Cari says it has become a new trend. The jurisdictions doing it are China, with the National Security Law; Russia, identifying Hostile Jurisdictions that have imposed sanctions against Russia.

[29:12] Cari says it's a quid pro quo. Ukraine has a sanctions program against entities that do business with Russia. Canada and Europe are well-known for their Blocking Statutes.

[29:48] They have Antidote Sanctions that prohibit their nationals from complying with the U.S.'s Cuba Sanctions. Those jurisdictions see the U.S. sanctions on Cuba as territorial. There is a quid pro quo.

[30:08] Sometimes it triggers conflict-of-law issues, and companies have to decide how and when they're going to comply with which set of sanctions.

[30:46] Cari says, if you don't have a holistic view of which jurisdictions you're operating in, and where your U.S. nationals are located, there's no way to build out a robust, comprehensive sanctions program.

[31:01] If you have a U.S. person located in or in a business position in Canada, you wouldn't want them dealing with the Canadian company's Cuba business. You need to know where they are located in advance so you can protect the U.S. person.

[31:27] Justin notes that RIMS is a global society. Canada is the second-largest RIMS membership base.

[31:40] Justin says there's so much due diligence to be done. You have to vet the company you're going to be doing business with and do your second- and third-tier supply chain risk management deep dive to make sure that everything is above board.

[32:02] Cari says there are many examples where the Canadian Government has aggressively stepped up its sanctions components. The Canadian sanctions on Russian targets may be more aggressive than the U.S. or EU sanctions on Russia.

[32:19] If you have a financial institution or insurance company based in Canada, but operating in the U.S. and the EU, because they're complying with the Canadian sanctions, they're blocking transactions that a U.S. party wouldn't have to block.

[32:44] You want to know what the entire web of sanctions regulations is before you figure out who your business parties are and how you're going to navigate something.

[32:55] Justin surmises that a small company without a dedicated risk professional would need to reach out to a company like Steptoe. Cari agrees; a lot of people will use a law firm and a consultant to build out their compliance programs or to do the risk analysis.

[33:13] Cari says, then they will either find someone in-house or outsource it to a consultant or a specialist to keep costs down.

[33:23] Cari says, we also see this pop up in Mergers & Acquisitions. One of the things that is often difficult is that they will see the compliance function either as redundant or as a cost center, and not as a profit center.

[33:47] The guidance is always: Don't save costs by getting rid of your Compliance function, because it will cost you money in the long run. But often, that is what you will see.

[34:00] Justin brings up the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act (TRIA), a legislative priority for RIMS. RIMS sends an External Affairs Team to Capitol Hill every year to talk about TRIA with their Representatives in Congress.

[34:19] Justin says RIMS helped lead the charge, over 20 years ago, to get TRIA passed into law.

[34:30] The nature of terrorism risk has evolved since TRIA's enactment. Justin asks how risk managers should be thinking about terrorism exposure today, compared to when the program was established.

[34:44] Cari says terrorism, like the narcotics traffickers, evolves. It's cash-intensive. There's more you can do now through technology, AI, cybersecurity, and cryptocurrency.

[35:01] You can sit completely offshore and wreak havoc on the electrical grid or a utilities provider, or a financial institution, through cyberattacks or cybercrimes. It can be crippling if terrorists go after the grid.

[35:28] Cari says we have seen an overlap between what could be a terrorist attack and what is more likely a ransomware grab, when they're going after smaller utilities located somewhere in the Midwest. That seems to be a trend.

[35:45] They're not always sophisticated. You don't always know who the counterparties are. Going back to the Drug Control Strategy report, the Government is saying that there has to be a holistic approach to ransomware and cyberattacks.

[36:03] A couple of years ago, the FBI and Homeland Security set up a task force to work with the utilities or other U.S. businesses that see themselves faced with a ransomware attack that is either just for the money or is something more nefarious.

[36:24] Cari says, if the question is, is it terrorism or is it something else, but the way you would attack it would be the same if you're the utilities manager; it doesn't matter if it's terrorism or cybercrime.

[36:48] You've got to work with law enforcement to protect your infrastructure, to figure out whether you're going to pay the ransom or not, so that you can protect your customers' data.

[37:02] It's up to the Government to figure out who the illicit party was. Is it a hacker group sitting in Russia? Is it a terrorist group? Why were they doing it, and how do you stop it from happening in the future?

[37:18] If you're the Business Manager or the Compliance Officer, you need to build in your risks, your risk mitigation strategies, redundancies, and backup servers that are not connected. The problem for you isn't: Is this a hacker or a terrorist doing this to me?

[37:53] Cari says there are many insurance working groups. We've worked with clients, some of these groups, and the U.S. Government to come up with language that makes sense. We see it in the context of Iran or Russia, or with respect to language for War Risk in the Strait of Hormuz.

[38:32] Cari says, The partnership between the insurers, reinsurers, brokers, and Government is pretty deep.

[38:41] These working groups have been around for a long time because insurers, brokers, and reinsurers need buy-in from the Government to get assurances that the language they're putting out there is enough to get them out of trouble if they're acting in good faith.

[39:00] Generally, everyone is, but you want that nod from the Government that what you've done is sufficient from the Government's perspective.

[39:37] Cari's advice to risk professionals in August 2026: The most important thing is that the risk professionals and the business units know and trust each other.

[39:47] Cari continues: A risk professional isn't going to be able to build out a compliance program that works unless they know what the business units are up to and what the business priorities are, and they have the trust of the business professionals.

[40:05] Some critics warn that you don't want the compliance person to become a captive of the business units, driven by profit rather than compliance. Cari says the business compliance person needs the business unit and the compliance unit to work hand in glove. She explains it.

[40:46] Cari says we've seen this a lot with all of these businesses jumping into the Venezuela market. There's a lot of business upside but also a lot of risk. It may not be that there's a sanctions risk, but the longer-term risks are the money-laundering and corruption risks.

[41:26] Cari asks what happens ten years from now? If you're a compliance officer, you need to understand the upside to the business, which is lots of profit, but when you're drafting contracts and working with the business unit, how are you mitigating the risk that's five or 10 years out?

[41:44] Cari says the only way you do that is if the compliance and business units have a certain amount of trust and respect for each other.

[41:57] Cari says the Compliance Officer is not always the Risk Manager. Some businesses will have it siloed; some will have someone embedded. In some cases, there's no compliance person. They throw it onto a legal officer, and the legal officer can be spread fairly thin.

[42:13] Cari says you can work through trade associations to understand industry risk. You can hire consultants. You can hire law firms. The benchmarking is incredibly important to understand not only the opportunity but also the appropriate risk.

[42:49] Justin says this has been one of the most informative RIMScasts we've had in a while. I'm so glad we got a chance to tackle this topic. Cari, thank you so much for joining us here on RIMScast!

[42:45] Special thanks again to Cari Stinebower of Steptoe for joining us here on RIMScast! A link to her LinkedIn profile is in this episode's show notes.

[42:58] I have links on this episode's show notes to other RIMS coverage on sanctions, geopolitical tensions, and related supply chain risk. Also visit RMMagazine.com.

[43:08] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email [email protected] for more information.

[43:26] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[43:42] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.

[43:56] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at [email protected].

[44:08] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!

Links:

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About our guest: Cari Stinebower, Partner, Steptoe

Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews Sophie Grégoire Trudeau about her closing keynote for the RIMS Canada Conference. Justin asks Sophie about her connection to risk managers or risk professionals. Sophie explains that all decision-makers are risk assessors. Justin and Sophie address leadership in incredibly high-profile environments and the qualities Sophie believes define strong leadership today, when people are facing uncertainty, competing priorities, or significant change. Sophie explores the window of tolerance.

Sophie explains how Canada is often viewed internationally as collaborative and consensus-driven, and the uniquely Canadian approaches to leadership, wellness, or community that she believes have value on the global stage. Sophie touches on her wellness practices, the importance of adaptability, and what adaptability is.

Listen for Sophie's single most important principle she would share with risk professionals.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.

[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. We are delighted to present an interview with one of Canada's national treasures, Sophie Grégoire Trudeau.

[:39] Sophie is an author and mental wellness advocate, and will be the closing keynote speaker at the RIMS Canada Conference on October 21st. There's so much to discuss! But first…

[:49] Plugs: This is the last call for educational content submissions for RISKWORLD 2027, which will be in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st. The deadline for submissions is August 21st, just a few days from the launch of this episode.

[1:07] The submissions link is in this episode's show notes.

[1:10] RIMS-CRMP Workshop. On August 27th and 28th, RIMS President Manny Padilla will be leading the two-day, in-person workshop at St. John's University at 101 Astor Place in New York City. A link to the registration is in this episode's show notes.

[1:30] RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops. RIMS will partner with PARIMA for the RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep on September 1st and 2nd. Registration links are in this episode's show notes.

[1:39] Also on the webinars page, you will see a two-part series hosted by the RIMS Membership Department. The "Classroom to Career" webinar series highlights how RIMS equips students with the knowledge, skills, and connections needed to thrive in risk management careers.

[1:55] Participants will gain insights into industry trends, career pathways, and practical tools that help them confidently step into the evolving world of risk management after graduation. These sessions will be hosted on September 1st and 9th.

[2:08] These sessions are member exclusives and are complimentary for RIMS members, of course. So, if you are interested in becoming a member, this would be the time. Visit RIMS.org/membership.

[2:18] On October 1st, Brown and Brown will make their RIMS Webinar debut with "The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Think About Now." A link is in this episode's show notes.

[2:30] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!

[2:49] On with the Show! I will be joined by a co-host today. She is the RIMS Canada National Conference Committee Chair and RIMScast Canada host, Aaron Lukoni. Aaron and I both wanted to interview our guest today, so we are sharing hosting duties.

[3:08] We are amped up for this interview with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau. The RIMScast Canada video of this interview will be available this week at RIMS.org/Canada.

[3:18] Sophie is the author of Closer Together: Knowing Ourselves, Loving Each Other, a Number 1 bestseller featured in Audible Canada's Best of 2024 list. She is the former wife of Justin Trudeau, former Prime Minister of Canada.

[3:35] We are excited that she will be the closing keynote for the RIMS Canada Conference, which will be held from October 18th through the 21st in Quebec City. Register at RIMSCanadaConference.ca.

[3:46] Today we will get a preview of her keynote and her perspective on risk management. She will open our minds to something called the window of tolerance. Learn more about her at Sophiegregoiretrudeau.com. There's a lot of energy in the RIMScast studio today. Let's get to it!

[4:05] Interview! Sophie Grégoire Trudeau, welcome to RIMScast!

[4:11] Sophie says to everybody listening that she is so, so happy to be here. She comments on the saying that life is not a private affair. She expounds that we have so much to learn from one another. Conversations like these are about business but even more about humanity.

[4:38] Sophie says humanity will never be lost. Whatever we think that AI will do to our world, humanity will reign. We have to make sure we understand humanity to be able to manage it well.

[4:56] Sophie says the etymology of the word risk is uncertain. It comes from the Italian word risco, having to do with navigation dangers. But some historians say it comes from a Greek word meaning root, cliff, or hazard.

[5:47] Sophie says, finance, through history, has changed the word risk to mean not only facing danger, but also the uncertainty surrounding the outcome of a decision.

[6:00] Sophie says she has talked with popes, queens, kings, farmers, teachers, nurses, and others who don't fit the definition of only being in risk assessment.

[5:22] But human beings, whatever they do in life, have been dedicated to countering the true nature of our primal brain, which doesn't like uncertainty.

[6:35] Sophie has a lot of respect and reverence for risk management people, who do this as their daily jobs, because it means that you've got to be seeing the world as it is and not from your perspective. Sophie says she finds that's what the world needs these days.

[7:06] Justin had the chance to listen to Sophie on some other shows, such as the Aspen Institute last year, and a show called Can't Be Sensored. Justin is listening to Sophie's audiobook, and he comments that she does a lot of research.

[7:33] Sophie says she keeps herself grounded, as a teacher and coach, so whenever she gets on a stage, whether she's talking to 50 people or 10,000, she has always done her research and homework. As she ages, she finds the homework is paying off. She never takes it for granted.

[8:24] Sophie says she was on the co-political path for almost 15 years. Assessing risk is all they do every day, and seeing how you can save the most vulnerable in every situation. When people see Sophie at events in high heels and a dress to mingle, that's not what politics is about at all.

[8:47] Sophie says politics is about serving each other, assessing risk, and making decisions with the most discernment, facts, and data, from a regulated state.

[9:00] Sophie says, if you look at the state of the world, so many leaders aren't well-regulated and aren't well-informed. When it comes to risk management, that is of absolute importance.

[9:16] Aaron asks Sophie what qualities define strong leadership in today's workforce and society, when facing uncertainty, competing priorities, and significant changes.

[9:34] Sophie says she is passionate about the answers to that question. Her life's devotion is studying the neuroscience behind personality. That's why she wrote Closer Together, to make it accessible to everybody, whether low-profile or high-profile.

[10:02] Sophie says what is really impressive in a true leader is the human capacity to see the world for what it is and not through who they are. That takes a lot of emotional regulation, emotional maturity, and a lot of work on one's inner world.

[10:17] Sophie introduces the concept of the window of tolerance. AI is coming at an incessant speed. Our brains are not ready for that speed.

[10:40] We're being bombarded with information and new situations at the high rate of efficiency of machines, and we're just trying to adapt. We're all in reaction mode.

[10:54] When we're in reaction mode, and we're not prepared for whatever risk is coming, we are brought back to our own window of tolerance. It's part of being a human being.

[11:17] Sophie says your first childhood bond of attachment, in your pre-verbal years, makes you the leader that you are today. From zero to two years old, you form a bond of attachment called the epistemic bond of trust.

[11:34] The epistemic bond of trust is the first bond of trust you build with another human being, the person who took care of you, and the outside world.

[11:44] It's a dance; a vocal, visual, earful dance, nervous system to nervous system, right brain to right brain, the hemisphere responsible for the emotional development of the human brain. That dance lasts from zero to two years.

[12:08] Sophie says it sets a tone in your nervous system. Did you have a parent who was present? What was the quality, the consistency, the presence, and the playfulness? What is the tone that it set in your nervous system as a child?

[12:27] You carry this in every single adult relationship that you'll ever have, including the ones with your employees or your colleagues.

[12:35] Sponsorships! You can sponsor a RIMScast episode for this, our weekly show, or a dedicated episode. RIMScast is proud of its longstanding relationships with AXA XL, Global Risk Consultants, Alliant, Zurich, and more.

[12:57] Links to many of these episodes are in the show notes. RIMScast sponsorships can be bundled with whitepapers and webinar sponsorships.

[13:05] RIMScast has a global audience of risk and insurance professionals, legal professionals, students, business leaders, C-Suite executives, and more. Let's collaborate and help you reach them!

[13:17] Reach out to Ted Donovan at [email protected] or reach out to Sales at [email protected]. Let's find the best opportunity for you and your organization.

[13:30] Let's Return to Our Dialog about Windows of Tolerance with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau!

[13:38] Sophie says, when you're put in front of a decision where you have to weigh the risk, and when you know that there are risks implicated in the outcome, people in risk management and finance say there will be no revenue without risk, so you have to take risk. How do you assess it?

[14:02] Sophie says it comes back to your nervous system and your capacity to see the world as it is and not as you are.

[14:08] If your first childhood bond of attachment was insecure, anxious, or disorganized, you're not starting with a solid base of being able to adapt to unusual circumstances. Right now, we are living in abnormal circumstances.

[14:28] Sophie says we're pathologizing a lot of our conditions: from ADHD to so many other psychological conditions, but most experts will tell you we're not sick people; we're just trying to adapt the nervous system we were given to abnormal living circumstances.

[14:45] Sitting at a desk for 12 hours a day, not moving, eating poorly, or not sleeping well will affect our capacity to lead.

[14:55] Sophie says our window of tolerance is like a bell curve between an upper and a lower line. Your window of tolerance is within those two lines. Some people's bell curve is halfway between the two lines. Some people are more at the peak; some are more at the flat line.

[15:36] It depends on how you were able to construct your capacity to adapt to change from what you received in early childhood, from your experiences through childhood, and whether you know or not about your own trauma and suffering.

[15:51] Sophie says suffering is a normal part of human life. Trauma is what happens when we don't look efficiently at our suffering and when we don't know how to manage our emotions, whether you're a parent, a student, or a leader in a position where you have to take risks.

[16:15] Sophie says our window of tolerance is a good metaphor for how we assess risk and how we lead teams into risk, and how we can mitigate risk and the outcomes of risk. Sometimes we face bad situations. How do we adapt to that?

[16:37] Aaron mentions it's our emotional regulation. Sophie says, from the beginning to the grave, our capacity to emotionally regulate ourselves, especially in difficult situations, makes us courageous leaders or not.

[16:56] Sophie says, in this window of tolerance, we can insert a more precise marker for capacity to adapt, which is Heart Rate Variability (HRV). This is your capacity to go from a very stressful situation back to homeostasis, a balanced nervous system.

[17:13] Sophie asks, What are you presented with in your company? What are your clients asking for? How much risk are you assessing, and how can you take really difficult situations and come back to a regulated team, a regulated balance sheet, and a regulated vision for your enterprise?

[17:31] Sophie says, as much as we are at risk with technology, it is also an ally because it gives us facts and data, which we cannot push away. Science is on our side when it comes to leadership, because we understand the importance of regulation at every step.

[17:53] One More Quick Break! RIMS, The Foundation for Risk ManagementTM, is dedicated to shaping the future of the profession. By contributing, you are strengthening the global risk management community and investing in the future of the industry.

[18:13] The Foundation also supports the Spencer Educational Foundation but has a different mission. The Foundation focuses on providing opportunities for those professionals who have already decided to enter risk management and are just getting started.

[18:27] You can learn more about the Foundation by visiting www.RIMS.org/FRM.

While you're there, be sure to check out information about the Susan Meltzer Scholarship Fund, which was established to honor Ms. Meltzer, who was RIMS President in 1999 and 2000.

[18:46] Susan Meltzer was a cherished RIMS President and contributed so much to RIMS and the greater risk community. Learn more at RIMS.org/FRM.

[18:54] Let's Return to Our Interview with RIMS Canada Conference Keynote Sophie Grégoire Trudeau!

[19:03] Justin asks Sophie for an example of a person she has met with a broad window of tolerance. Sophie says she is quite discerning when it comes to picking people like that.

[19:29] One man Sophie has been impressed with in his capacity to regulate emotionally, would be Barack Obama in his personality; his capacity to stay regulated in front of the obstacle.

[19:53] Sophie refers to what has been done in Canada in the past 15 years, and people who have sacrificed their families and have been so courageous in the face of uncertainty.

[20:05] Sophie says Chancellor Angela Merkel from Germany is the type of woman who has a very stoic way of dealing with conflict.

[20:17] There are so many. There are a lot of people who have impressed Sophie who are not known to the public. She has also seen it in her home, including her former partner and colleagues. Sophie has a lot of respect for public servants. [20:54] Sophie says, obviously, the Dalai Lama and Buddhist monks she has met and whom she admires.

[21:04] Sophie says discerning spirituality is wisdom from a place where you are in such deep service that every decision you make, even risk decisions, looks to a greater force that can guide us through its humanity, in cohesion and integrity, qualities that make a leader outstanding.

[21:54] Justin views Canada as a collaborative, consensus-driven nation. He asks Sophie if there are uniquely Canadian approaches to leadership, wellness, or community that have value on the global stage.

[22:11] Sophie says, Yes. She has seen it from the inside out. She had such a unique position. She says another great quality of a leader is staying close to people and not building walls between them. You come from a place of non-threat, so differences are not a threat but a plus.

[22:34] Sophie thinks that Canada sits on this basin of such talent and diversity that allows Canadians in their daily lives not to tolerate risk and difference but to accept it as part of their way of living. Sophie speaks of this on shows. Canada is not at risk of extremism.

[23:06] Sophie says Canada has a discerning social hand of wisdom. Canada counts on it. They need to keep feeding that hand. They can't take it for granted.

[23:26] Sophie mentions that Canada has diversity, has more women in the boardroom, and in the past decade, how many women have run in politics has changed, which has changed the landscape as well.

[23:41] Sophie says the data has proven that more women in governance, in the boardroom, and in politics means more empathy, more open leadership, and more inclusivity, and the world needs this now, on all levels. Canada is proud of this. Every day is another day to get better.

[24:03] Sophie says that all the best leaders she has spoken to, whether Olympic athletes or trainers, doctors, or risk assessment specialists, it's about every time you do well, you celebrate the small wins, but you always know you can do better.

[24:22] How is it that we can do better? How is it that we can adapt better and make everyone better at the same time? In co-politics, when we invest in the middle class, it's because we know the data shows that it lifts poverty up.

[24:40] Sophie says in a company, if you celebrate diversity, include people, celebrate the small wins, and elevate in your style of leadership, instead of dominating, you'll give yourself better chances to create a performing, cohesive team that can deal with great troubles.

[25:12] Justin says, Sophie, we are so excited to see you in Quebec on October 21st at 8:30 a.m. Sophie is a morning person.

[25:52] Aaron asks, If you could leave risk leaders around the world with one idea from Closer Together, that would help them build stronger organizations, not just stronger people, what would you hope that they're going to take away from that?

[26:05] Sophie says, Know yourself. Know yourself. Get to the core of who you are. Leave all the titles, accomplishments, and risks aside for a moment and go back to who you are and how you function.

[26:22] Sophie mentions the 7 Cs: Competence, Creativity, Courage, Communication, Coaching, knowing your inner Compass, and Citizenship. It starts by knowing who you are as a human being and becoming the best leader that you can be. Aaron thanks Sophie for that great advice.

[27:22] Special thanks again to Sophie Grégoire Trudeau for joining us here on RIMScast. Catch the video dialog on RIMScast Canada, which you can find at RIMS.org/canada. Of course, remember to register for the RIMS Canada Conference at RIMSCanadaConference.ca.

[27:40] We will see you in Quebec City from October 18th through 21st.

[27:45] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email [email protected] for more information.

[28:02] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[28:19] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.

[28:32] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at [email protected].

[28:44] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!

Links:

RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | www.rimscanadaconference.ca | Sponsorship Opportunities Available

RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live — Watch the full video with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau.

RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | www.rims.org/ERM2026 | RIMS ERM Global Award of Distinction nominations open through Aug. 21!

RISKWORLD 2027 Registration | RIMS members can lock in 2026 rates now through Sept. 4 | Education Content Submission Through Aug. 21.

RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 21‒24 | Complimentary For All

Spencer Educational Foundation's 2026 Funding Their Future Gala | Sept. 17, 2026

ChicagoLand Risk Forum | Sept. 24, 2026

RIMS Western Regional Conference — Oct. 4‒7, 2026 | Seattle, WA | Register Today.

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Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines.

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RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan!

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Related RIMScast Episodes:

"Distilling Risk and Resilience with Manjit K. Minhas"

"On Resilience with Amanda Lindhout"

"Emerging Risks and AMRAE's RMIS Panorama 2026 with François Beaume"

"Energy Efficiency, Mental Health Awareness, and Risk with Nick Quigley"

"Live from Calgary at the RIMS Canada Conference 2025"

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"AI-Scale, Risk Ready: Engineering Controls for the New Data Center Boom" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

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About our guest: Sophie Grégoire Trudeau

Author. Keynote Speaker. Mental Health Advocate.

Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews RIMS SERMC Member Eric Lobser about his career path at Spire Inc. They discuss his start in Budget Analysis at Laclede Gas, which eventually became Spire Inc. He moved into Operations, Treasury, and then Strategic Planning, including Acquisitions. He continued his career as VP of Enterprise Risk Management. Eric shares how he grew into that position, using knowledge he had gained from all the departments he had worked with. He tells about his early presentations to the Board.

Eric explains what ERM means to him, and how ERM helps companies manage risks, including reputation, engage in opportunities, and make the resource allocation decisions that lead to success and mitigate failures.

Listen for Eric's idea to improve the ERM acronym.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.

[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. Our guest is Eric Lobser. He was a practitioner in the natural gas sector for 35 years. We're going to get his ERM philosophies today. But first…

[:42] RIMS-CRMP Workshop. We are delighted to announce that on August 27th and 28th, RIMS President Manny Padilla will be leading the two-day in-person workshop at St. John's University at 101 Astor Place in New York City. A link to the registration is in this episode's show notes.

[1:02] RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops. RIMS will partner with PARIMA for the RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep on September 1st and 2nd. Registration links are in this episode's show notes.

[1:13] Also on the webinars page, you will see a two-part series hosted by the RIMS Membership Department. The "Classroom to Career" webinar series highlights how RIMS equips students with the knowledge, skills, and connections needed to thrive in risk management careers.

[1:28] Participants will gain insights into industry trends, career pathways, and practical tools that help them confidently step into the evolving world of risk management after graduation. These sessions will be hosted on September 1st and 9th.

[1:41] These sessions are member exclusives and are complimentary for RIMS members, of course. So, if you are interested in becoming a member, this would be the time. Visit RIMS.org/membership.

[1:51] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!

[2:10] On with the Show! We will take a deep dive into Enterprise Risk Management with Eric Lobser. Eric recently retired from a 35-year career in the natural gas sector. He remained with one company that eventually became Spire Energy.

[2:26] Eric is also a member of the RIMS Strategic and Enterprise Risk Management Council.

[2:32] We will discuss his career journey, how one role led to the next before settling on Enterprise Risk Management, and his philosophies on what makes ERM truly valuable and why the acronym could use an upgrade. Let's get to it!

[2:52] Interview! Eric Lobser, Welcome to RIMScast!

[3:17] Justin and Eric met last year during a webinar. Eric has a fascinating career. His entire career was at Spire. Originally, it was Laclede Gas Company. Then it became The Laclede Group, and then Spire. Eric's career was 35 years and some months long.

[3:53] Justin says that shows our audience that you can have a risk career at one company. You don't need to jump around. If you're doing well, if you're comfortable, if the company's treating you right, and you're doing a good job.

[4:10] Eric says the risk career came later in his life. It was the culmination of a lot of other things he did. He had a varied set of positions at Spire. Over time, it was multiple types of companies. As you go through CEOs, things change.

[4:31] Eric says he was there for about five CEOs and got to see many different sides of how business operates.

[4:49] Eric says he graduated from Boston College in 1990. It was a tough job market. He wanted a job on the East Coast, but it was an expensive place not to have a job. He went back home.

[5:08] His stepfather had a contact at the Laclede Gas Company. He interviewed, and they offered him a position, which he took. Within two weeks, he thought he would be crazy to stay at that company more than a couple of years. He thought it was odd they had a few computers.

[5:29] Eric came from a school with a library full of computers. You had to sign up to use them. It taught him to use his mind, and it instilled patience. Those elements have been valuable to Eric's career.

[6:06] Eric started as a budget analyst and did that for about a year and a half, in the corporate office in downtown St. Louis.

[6:33] Then he was fortunate to move to Operations to do the same sort of work with all the department heads to help them with their budgeting, to translate things from Operations into financial terms and get better relationships with the people who ran the business.

[6:53] Eric says he got to understand the business better from the view of the boots on the street.

[7:04] Justin asks if risk management and ERM came onto Eric's radar in August 2001, when he became the Managing Director for Strategic Planning and Corporate Development.

[7:18] Eric says that he had also worked with property insurance in Treasury. There's a big commodity risk at a natural gas company. There are also market risks and credit risks.

[7:33] Eric says Strategic Planning was new to The Laclede Group, taking the budget period and extending it out three years, rolling in strategy and planning.

[7:49] Eric helped them to develop software for business planning, custom-made from Access, to help support the Balance Scorecard they rolled out. It included something for Initiatives for making improvements, which were tied to Metrics.

[8:11] There were Action Items. There was a section where you laid out your different risks and what you were doing to mitigate them. The Action Items often required support from other areas. The software would put that into their business plan so they could see it and collaborate.

[8:33] Eric says risk management and collaboration are hand-in-hand.

[9:09] Eric speaks of a change in leadership, where they went from mostly looking at operational excellence and continual improvement to a more external look at other businesses, at ways to diversify within the gas industry: storage, pipeline, E&P, and more.

[9:40] That was the beginning of the thought processes Eric would go through, looking at different businesses; what can go right with them, and what can go wrong.

[9:57] Part of modeling acquisitions is taking a look at those scenarios and looking for the probability of a downside, what that downside looks like, and what will drive it. What has to go right to have the best case? What does the base case look like? What are those probabilities?

[10:20] Eric says that was the beginning of understanding how risk and business go hand-in-hand. They can't have opportunity without risk. There's no reward without risk. Understanding that was an element of that job.

[10:39] Eric was fortunate to have a tremendous boss during that time who helped him gain critical thinking about how things operate.

[10:58] Eric says when they were looking at how other companies operate, they were companies within the gas industry, to stay within their knowledge base, and simplify their business, within the natural gas value chain, from wellhead to burner tip.

[11:30] They were looking at exploration & production, gathering & processing, pipelines, underground storage, down to uses for it, including compressed natural gas for vehicles and local distribution utilities.

[11:58] Justin suggests that the 13-year period when Eric was in Strategic Planning and Corporate Development, holding several positions, was a key time in his career. Eric says yes, and it was his favorite period. He had gone to school for investment banking and acquisitions.

[12:42] Eric says, at the same time, it was a tremendous amount of work. He thought maybe it wasn't the best place to spend his lifetime because of the level of work and stress involved.

[13:04] Eric was married and raising a family, and that had to come into play, as well. He says while his wife was extremely patient with him during all those times, sometimes working around the clock, he felt it wasn't the right long-term opportunity for him.

[13:20] Eric says one of the things he learned when he was doing acquisitions was developing models for how utilities make money. Eric worked with people who did rate cases at the company, to understand what drove cash flow.

[13:47] In doing that, Eric learned how regulations work and how tariffs work. That led to asking himself, if this isn't the right career for me, taking a look at something next to it, which was regulatory and government affairs.

[14:27] Eric had already started to learn about it. Once he was in charge, he based it on Missouri regulations. The first acquisition was a company in Kansas City, Missouri.

[15:05] The second acquisition was Alagasco in Alabama, and that was a completely different type of ratemaking approach that was annual. They had a formal department. Eric was asked to develop something more formal for the entire company.

[15:21] Eric says then they acquired Energy South, which brought them into Mobile and also Mississippi, a third rate jurisdiction. There was a mountain of information to climb. His drive and thirst for knowledge helped him up the curve pretty quickly.

[15:53] Eric says relationships and the stuff between the lines are just as important as what you can read about and study.

[16:12] Eric says, pulling from his enterprise risk career, one of the impacts is not just financial, but reputation. Reputation is a huge element of rate setting. Your reputation precedes you to the commission that oversees rate case litigation and the parties to the case.

[16:47] The parties that are involved include industrials, AARP, low-income groups, an energy efficiency group, and other parties.

[17:01] Understanding where they're coming from, and what they're trying to achieve, and working towards something that gives all parties some of what they want, is a key element.

[17:18] If you were a bad operator; if you had a significant incident that showed you weren't a safe operator, or you weren't treating your customers well, then going into the rate case, people had their minds set that they wanted to give you not a rate increase but a rate reduction.

[17:40] The value of the relationships and the reputation, the stuff that is gray and in between the lines, is not just about what the numbers are but who you are as a business.

[17:56] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026. The 11th Annual Chicagoland Risk Forum will return to the Old Post Office on Thursday, September 24th, 2026. Visit ChicagolandRiskForum.org for more information.

[18:12] The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit RIMSWesternRegional.com and the link in this episode's show notes for more information.

[18:29] Save the dates: October 18th through the 21st. We will be in Quebec City to celebrate the 50th Live RIMS Canada Conference. Booth sales are open, and sponsorship opportunities are still available. Advance registration is open now.

[18:45] Visit RIMSCanadaConference.ca for more information. Also, remember to check out RIMS.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, hosted by National Conference Committee Chair, Aaron Lukoni.

[19:00] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration is now open.

[19:10] Through August 21st, you can nominate a program for the RIMS ERM Global Award of Distinction. If you know of an ERM Program that is award-worthy, we want to hear about it. A link to the nomination form is in this episode's show notes. Visit RIMS.org/ERM2026.

[19:29] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st! The call for session proposals is now live and will stay active through August 21st.

[19:44] RIMS members can exclusively register by September 4th for the best rate. And get first access to the hotel block. Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk! The link to registration is in this episode's show notes.

[20:04] Let's Return to Our Interview with Eric Lobser!

[20:31] Justin asks about compliance at a natural gas company. Eric says his career at a critical infrastructure utility delivering a relatively volatile product to people's homes was very safety-oriented with a lot of rules, regulations, and areas of compliance.

[21:04] The whole industry faced a need to replace some of its aging infrastructure. That started when Eric was in Treasury and trying to think about how they would afford all the replacements they were going through.

[21:22] It came again when Eric was in Regulatory, trying to understand the balance between safety and rates and what's best for the business and what's best for the customer.

[21:53] Compliance is not something you can decide to do a little bit or a lot. You have to meet at least the minimum standards. Spire was always at that point but also found the benefit of going beyond that, to deal with it a little bit more strategically.

[22:14] Spire was generally a group that looked at opportunities to do replacement in a way that overall was more cost-effective, exceeding requirements on their compliance. Compliance was an enterprise risk.

[22:34] Eric says it was not just making sure they were in compliance, but also what the cost of compliance is and what if people change their minds and all of a sudden want us to do this or that? [22:53] Being a regulated utility, your rates are dependent on somebody deciding you deserve to have this.

[23:02] Compliance was more often not physical replacement but putting in another pipe beside the old pipe and terminating the old cast iron pipe that had degraded and become a safety issue.

[23:26] Spire always paid attention to where they were getting leaks or water potentially getting into the system and areas of geography that had similar types of risk.

[23:39] Spire took a strategic approach to look at the information they were getting and figure out where to go and do wholesale changes rather than responding to risks as they popped up.

[23:54] Eric says that was the approach where they took compliance and said if we do more, it probably can be better for us and better for the customer to take a better strategic approach.

[24:19] Eric says it's inconvenient and sometimes problematic for people when there are workers in the street. Part of Eric's career was dealing with claims and issues that can happen with construction. The construction was necessary to make sure the system was safe.

[24:53] Eric says the most prevalent claims were when they were doing excavation and hit something unmapped, like an underground dog fence or sprinkler system. To be cost-effective, they used reliable outside partners to replace these.

[26:44] Eric says that every year, when he was in Strategic Planning, he would help put on a two-day conference for the Board to review company strategy and present new ideas.

[27:01] Any time they found an acquisition opportunity that met the muster of the executives, they presented that to the Board.

[27:!3] Eric says the Board is extremely interested in rate cases, which are the heart and soul of a utility's business.

[27:28] Something Eric found helpful later in his career, doing regulatory work, was to pull together parties without overlapping interests, such as the Board and the Public Service Commission, to help them find agreement on why something was beneficial for the customers.

[28:58] Eric says, for the first time or two, presenting to the Board was frightening. He was fortunate enough not to be leading the presentations. He reported to officers who helped develop the business planning and strategy. They helped Eric work his way into bigger roles.

[29:32] Eric says when he became more involved in doing the modeling, one time he was called by the CEO to speak to the Board while he was on a family vacation. His wife reminds him of this. The Board was very interested in the upside case and downside case of a model scenario.

[30:31] Eric says in that phone call he had to give the Board a rigorous view of why they should spend $1.1 billion on this acquisition. While exciting, Eric says presenting to the Board was a very stressful part of the job. They're relying on things that he's saying to them.

[31:12] Eric says acquisitions have their own timeline and they develop however they want to. It's not like going to the grocery store to pick up something. When something pops, it pops, and it's all hands on deck. You don't stop until the job is done.

[31:35] One more Quick Break! RIMS, The Foundation for Risk ManagementTM, is dedicated to shaping the future of the profession. By making a contribution, you are strengthening the global risk management community and investing in the future of the industry.

[31:55] The Foundation also supports the Spencer Educational Foundation but has a different mission. The Foundation focuses on providing opportunities for those professionals who have already decided to enter risk management and are just getting started.

[32:09] You can learn more about the Foundation by visiting www.RIMS.org/FRM.

While you're there, be sure to check out information about the Susan Meltzer Scholarship Fund, which was established to honor Ms. Meltzer, who was RIMS President in 1999 and 2000.

[32:28] Susan Meltzer was a cherished RIMS President and contributed so much to RIMS and the greater risk community. Learn more at RIMS.org/FRM.

[32:36] Let's Return to Our Interview with Eric Lobser!

[32:52] Eric says that it seems to him that if people viewed Enterprise Risk Management more as Enterprise Value Management, they would better understand that it's more about what you need to do to improve the value of your company.

[33:19] In Eric's Strategic Planning days in Corporate Acquisitions, he learned that Expected Value is about changing probabilities, not just the impact of those probabilities.

[33:32] Eric says Enterprise Risk Management does a great job of addressing both the likelihood and the impact of things going wrong and things going right. What you're building with ERM is value. You're adding to the value of the company.

[33:46] Eric thinks more people would engage. It would resonate with a lot of the corporate cultures to look at ERM as a way to build value for the company.

[34:08] Justin says that for almost eight years, Eric was the Spire VP of ERM. Justin asks if Eric was able to hit the ground running, going from Regulatory and Government Affairs into ERM.

[34:32] Eric says the position started with Insurance, and then Commodity Risk Management, other elements of the business that helped him up the learning curve. From Acquisitions, Regulatory, Operations, and Customer Service, Eric understood a lot about the business.

[34:55] Eric says having a couple of years when he was in charge of Spire's Insurance program, including Captive Management, where you retain risk instead of transferring it, was a great transition to eventually getting Enterprise Risk.

[35:31] Eric says he read every book he could get his hands on in the time he had. He noticed some of the things they were doing were based on ISO 31000. Eric read through ISO and COSO. COSO felt very intricate and detailed.

[36:10] Eric asked himself what the potential was that we were going to adopt something. The culture of the business manages the risk. ERM oversees how the business manages risk. Eric wanted to pick a framework that fit more with Spire's corporate culture.

[36:39] Eric says ISO 31000 is adjustable. He felt like it was a good fit. It was more about strategy and enterprise than Spire's focus had been. It was not just about what could go wrong and what they should be concerned about happening, but what must go right.

[37:22] Eric says that looped in what he learned in Strategy, what they have to do to be successful, and what could derail them from that. Spire transitioned a little bit less away from risks and more to strategic imperatives and what they had to do to achieve their strategic vision.

[38:02] Justin asks about ERM conferences and what makes a great ERM session. Eric says it's a practitioner who has lived through it with real-world experience on what works, what doesn't work, and why it didn't work.

[38:18] Eric says everything's specific to the company, so what works for one may not work for another. An experienced practitioner brings a level of credibility that is important. Eric wants a presenter who focuses on what helps a company be more successful in executing its strategy.

[38:41] Eric says a lot of presentations go into risk registers and software, but in the end, risk management is change management, with very complex systems. The presenter should speak to engaging the business, getting different areas to collaborate, and making better decisions.

[39:31] Eric says those decisions are about how you allocate resources. Resources are limited. You can't do everything, so you prioritize.

[39:41] ERM helps you to prioritize better, using a process of identification and assessment, to help you understand how important a risk is in relation to other risks, how soon it needs to be dealt with, and what level of mitigation and controls you already have in place.

[40:13] Eric says, ERM helps you determine if this risk is extremely well-managed and there are resources you can take away from it to put toward a risk that's less well-mitigated.

[40:22] Eric says a good ERM session presenter talks about how ERM helps a corporation make better decisions and effectuate those resource allocations that then help that company to be more successful. That's what ERM is about, and when somebody talks about that, it resonates.

[41:02] Eric says when he hears a concept that really resonates with him, he tries to pull those concepts together. He has used principles from the Enterprise Risk Oversight Committee.

[41:44] Justin says the Global ERM Award of Distinction call for submissions is open. You can send in those nominations now. RIMS Global ERM Award of Distinction nominations are open through Aug. 21!

[41:57] Justin asks Eric what makes an Enterprise Risk Management program award-worthy. Eric says some of it is going to be based on the eye of the beholder. Enterprise Risk should be customized to the culture. People are going to view what makes a great program differently.

[42:28] Eric says that the SERMC is looking for, with the diverse perspectives of the members, a program that is well-integrated into Strategic Planning, helps the business make decisions, and most importantly, helps it be more successful, with fewer downturns, than their competitors.

[43:09] Eric says the business manages risk. ERM can help oversee what they're looking at and turn its attention to important things, and help determine the best ways to mitigate or treat risk, or support what they are doing, so the strategy prevents threats from derailing the company.

[43:33] Eric says, in the end, a company that is consistently successful is probably the mark of a good Enterprise Risk Management program.

[43:51] Justin says, we're going to see you again on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio at the RIMS ERM Conference. You can get your nominations in now for the RIMS Global ERM Award of Distinction. We'll have a special awards ceremony, like we do every year.

[44:07] Eric, it has been such a pleasure to have you on RIMScast! I look forward to seeing you in Columbus.

[44:19] Special thanks again to Eric Lobser for joining us here on RIMScast. We appreciate him and all the great work he does for the RIMS SERMC. The call for nominations for the RIMS Global ERM Award of Distinction is open; a link is in this episode's show notes.

[44:36] There are specific attributes that will make a nomination truly award-worthy. Submit your nominations today!

[44:42] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email [email protected] for more information.

[45:00] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[45:16] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.

[45:29] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at [email protected].

[45:41] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!

Links:

RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | www.rims.org/ERM2026 | RIMS ERM Global Award of Distinction nominations open through Aug. 21!

RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 21‒24 | Complimentary For All

Spencer Educational Foundation's 2026 Funding Their Future Gala | Sept. 17, 2026

RISKWORLD 2027 Registration | RIMS members can lock in 2026 rates now through Sept. 4 | Education Content Submission Through Aug. 21.

ChicagoLand Risk Forum | Sept. 24, 2026

RIMS Western Regional Conference — Oct. 4‒7, 2026 | Seattle, WA | Register Today.

RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | www.rimscanadaconference.ca | Advance Registration Open | Sponsorship Opportunities Available

The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center

RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management

Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines.

RIMS Now

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan!

RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council

RIMS-CRMP Stories

RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live

RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy

RIMScast on YouTube!

RIMS Risk Management Magazine | Contribute | Q2 2026 Issue Now Available

Sponsor RIMScast — [email protected]

Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops:

RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep Workshop — Live In NY — Aug 27‒28!

RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep with PARIMA | Sept 1‒2

Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule

See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops

Upcoming RIMS Webinars:

RIMS.org/Webinars

"RIMS Student Series: Classroom to Career Part 1" | Sept 1

"RIMS Student Series: Classroom to Career Part 2" | Sept 9

RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 22‒24 | Complimentary For All

Related RIMScast Episodes:

"Board Reporting and ERM in 2026 with Trisha Sqrow and Suzanne Christensen"

"The Future of Strategic Risk Management" with John Button

"Mid-Year Risk Roundup 2026 with Morgan O'Rourke and Hilary Tuttle"

"Emerging Risks and AMRAE's RMIS Panorama 2026 with François Beaume"

"Strategy and Change with Ward Ching and Aaron Olson"

Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:

"48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before A Hurricane Strikes" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company (New!)

"AI-Scale, Risk Ready: Engineering Controls for the New Data Center Boom" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Facing Into Risk: Navigating the New Risk Landscape" (New!) | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Secondary Perils, Major Risks: The New Face of Weather-Related Challenges" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"The ART of Risk: Rethinking Risk Through Insight, Design, and Innovation" | Sponsored by Alliant

"Mastering ERM: Leveraging Internal and External Risk Factors" | Sponsored by Diligent

"Cyberrisk: Preparing Beyond 2025" | Sponsored by Alliant

"The New Reality of Risk Engineering: From Code Compliance to Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Change Management: AI's Role in Loss Control and Property Insurance" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Demystifying Multinational Fronting Insurance Programs" | Sponsored by Zurich

"Understanding Third-Party Litigation Funding" | Sponsored by Zurich

"What Risk Managers Can Learn From School Shootings" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Simplifying the Challenges of OSHA Recordkeeping" | Sponsored by Medcor

"How Insurance Builds Resilience Against an Active Assailant Attack" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Third-Party and Cyber Risk Management Tips" | Sponsored by Alliant

RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

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About our guest: Eric Lobser, SERMC Member

Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews APIW President Dawnmarie Black about her role at Amwins and her journey to get there, starting with clerical work in her father's insurance agency. Dawnmarie speaks about the great training program she received early in her career, being mentored, joining an association board, and growing her career through being mentored, networking, connecting, building relationships, being mentored, and leadership. She emphasizes communication and transparency as the basis of relationships. Justin and Dawnmarie discuss upcoming trends in risk, recruiting talent, and retaining professionals with a culture of trust and development. Dawnmarie speaks of Amwins's innovative outreach to underrepresented children and HBCUs about the insurance industry. Finally, Dawnmarie focuses on her association work and the upcoming APIW 50th Anniversary Gala on November 3rd in NYC.

Listen for themes of communication, connection, and relationship building.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.

[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. We will be joined today by Dawnmarie Black of Amwins. She is also the President of the Association of Professional Insurance Women (APIW). But first…

[:42] RIMS-CRMP Workshop. We are delighted to announce that on August 27th and 28th, RIMS President Manny Padilla will be leading the two-day in-person workshop at St. John's University at 101 Astor Place in New York City. A link to the registration is in this episode's show notes.

[1:02] RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops. RIMS will partner with PARIMA for the RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep on September 1st and 2nd. Registration links are in this episode's show notes.

[1:12] Also on the webinars page, you will see a two-part series hosted by the RIMS Membership Department. The "Classroom to Career" webinar series highlights how RIMS equips students with the knowledge, skills, and connections needed to thrive in risk management careers.

[1:28] Participants will gain insights into industry trends, career pathways, and practical tools that help them confidently step into the evolving world of risk management after graduation. These sessions will be hosted on September 1st and 9th.

[1:41] These sessions are member exclusives and are complimentary for RIMS members, of course. So, if you are interested in becoming a member, this would be the time. Visit RIMS.org/membership.

[1:51] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!

[2:08] On with the Show! Our guest today is Dawnmarie Black. She is the Senior Vice President and Client Relationship Manager at Amwins, and she is the President of the Association of Professional Insurance Women (APIW).

[2:26] We'll talk a bit about her career journey, what she believes it takes to attract and retain talent in insurance and risk management, and the interconnected risks that are on her radar. Let's get to it!

[2:39] Interview! Dawnmarie Black, Welcome to RIMScast!

[2:48] Justin says, you know Dawnmarie Black from Amwins, and she is also the President of the Association of Professional Insurance Women (APIW). Justin is wearing their pin.

[3:21] Dawnmarie is a Client Relationship Manager at Amwins. She builds relationships with retail trading partners. It's a strategic national, corporate relationship across the U.S.

[3:35] Dawnmarie works and collaborates with their market placement teams or carrier strategy teams and Amwins internal brokers.

[3:44] There's a lot of collaboration to ensure that Amwins brokers are finding the opportunities and so the client and Amwins understand how Amwins fits into their strategic priorities, and to grow both businesses.

[4:04] Dawnmarie says she and her team are there to support the retail brokers and also support Amwins's internal brokers in their growth initiatives.

[4:13] Dawnmarie joined Amwins in September of 2025.

[4:32] Dawnmarie's father owned an insurance agency in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. She worked at his agency from age 16. She went to Allegheny College in Meadville and worked at a local agency. She did a lot of mailroom, file room, cold calling, and CSR work.

[4:59] Dawnmarie thought she would ultimately move up in her father's agency and someday be the succession plan. He sold it, and Dawnmarie went to work for Chubb in their training program. It was a phenomenal start into this industry. They had a great training program.

[5:16] Dawnmarie says a lot of her group are still colleagues and friends today, which set the stage for her career.

[5:21] Dawnmarie says she moved through underwriting and brokerage, she built and launched an IT system at Aon, and went back to underwriting for a while. Most recently, Dawnmarie was the head of market development for the Americas at Lloyd's of London.

[5:54] Dawnmarie says it was an incredible role to understand what's happening in the global marketplace, at a 30,000-foot view, working with coders in the U.S. very closely. This is how she got to Amwins. She was promoting the Lloyd's market to the Amwins leadership team.

[6:37] Justin finds it fascinating that Dawnmarie was not the successor to her father but made her own way in the insurance industry. She learned it from the ground up. She has touched every part of the industry except for claims. She has come full circle, working with retailers again.

[7:04] Dawnmarie says it has been a very interesting and fulfilling journey. She feels like it has placed her well to be in a position like this, to be working with Amwins's retailers.

[7:36] Dawnmarie says she establishes trust with people through communication and transparency. She tells it like it is. She also will go the extra mile, out of her way to make sure things get done. At Amwins, there is a service leadership culture.

[8:01] Dawnmarie says she is there to help; to help direct, to help move things, or to help resolve things, at a very strategic, macro level. That fills her cup. She owns up to what she is promising.

[8:19] Dawnmarie says, if she tells you she is going to get something done, she will get it done, to the best of her ability, or there will be a very good reason why it hasn't been done. It's important to communicate that.

[8:39] Dawnmarie says she thinks that the next generation of leaders exhibits these qualities. They are thoughtful and demanding and have high expectations. When Dawnmarie entered the industry, the culture required her to prove herself. There was a way to approach the business.

[9:14] Dawnmarie says the Chubb training program was 12 weeks in their training center in Warren, New Jersey. You learned the policy forms, how to work with insureds, and understand needs. You understood risk. You learned underwriting and pricing.

[9:36] The emphasis was understanding the business. Unfortunately for our young risk professionals, there are not as many programs like that available today.

[9:49] Dawnmarie says you find companies that are putting training programs together. Amwins has an underwriter development program that is outstanding. A lot of the business produced in Amwins comes from those who have come through the UDP or a broker development program.

[10:05] Dawnmarie says our industry has gotten away from the super-formalized training programs, probably to the detriment of our younger professionals, but we're all stepping in and finding ways to fill those gaps.

[10:30] Justin concludes that Dawnmarie had an analog, hands-on, pen-and-paper training program.

[11:06] Dawnmarie joined the APIW early in her career. She would go to two or three monthly luncheons a year. Then she left APIW for a few years.

[11:26] About 10 years ago, while she was at Lloyd's, Dawnmarie was asked to join the board of APIW and get more involved. There, Dawnmarie held the roles of Co-head of Programming, then Treasurer, and ultimately, she was asked to step into the President position.

[11:46] Dawnmarie says she has seen the incredible evolution of APIW, going from 500 members to 3,500 members in 11 chapters across the U.S. with 60 corporate sponsorships. APIW has grown since the first time Dawnmarie was involved.

[12:20] Dawnmarie says that in her early 40s, she went to her first Women's Leadership Conference by the Insurance Industry Charitable Foundation (IICF). There weren't a lot of events like that then. Dawnmarie was struggling to figure out what she wanted in her career.

[12:50] At this Women's Leadership Conference, a woman spoke on the importance of getting involved, joining boards, and growing your network. Dawnmarie had always done that organically, but she hadn't done it thoughtfully. It was client-driven.

[13:08] Dawnmarie went back to management and said that IICF board positions go to sponsor companies. She asked if Lloyd's would sponsor IICF and could she be chosen as the board member? That's where she got her first board experience.

[13:24] Dawnmarie moved up and ended up Co-chair of the Boston Chapter. She learned a lot, and it prepared her for APIW.

[13:41] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026. This is a last call for registration for the Second Annual RIMS Texas Regional Conference, which will be held from August 10th through the 12th at the Grand Hyatt on the San Antonio River Walk.

[13:58] Visit RIMS.org/Events for registration information. The hotel cutoff date was July 10th. Reservations may still be made after the hotel cutoff date, subject to availability; however, the negotiated group rate is no longer guaranteed, so reserve now.

[14:14] The 11th Annual Chicagoland Risk Forum will return to the Old Post Office on Thursday, September 24th, 2026. Visit ChicagolandRiskForum.org for more information.

[14:25] The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit RIMSWesternRegional.com and the link in this episode's show notes for more information.

[14:41] Save the dates: October 18th through the 21st. We will be in Quebec City to celebrate the 50th Live RIMS Canada Conference. Booth sales are open, and sponsorship opportunities are still available. Advance registration is open now.

[14:58] Visit RIMSCanadaConference.ca for more information. Also, remember to check out RIMS.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, hosted by National Conference Committee Chair, Aaron Lukoni.

[15:13] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration is now open.

[15:22] Through August 21st, you can nominate a program for the RIMS ERM Global Award of Distinction. If you know of an ERM Program that is award-worthy, we want to hear about it. A link to the nomination form is in this episode's show notes. Visit RIMS.org/ERM2026.

[15:41] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st! The call for session proposals is now live and will stay active through August 21st.

[15:56] RIMS members can exclusively register by September 4th for the best rate. And get first access to the hotel block. Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk! The link to registration is in this episode's show notes.

[16:16] Let's Return to Our Interview with APIW President Dawnmarie Black!

[16:40] Dawnmarie says that the importance of building relationships with communication and transparency applies to risk managers as well.

[16:49] Dawnmarie says that risk managers getting to know their brokers and underwriters, building relationships, telling their story, building trust, and understanding the insurance and why a specific carrier is being suggested goes a long way if there's a claim or wording issue.

[17:47] Dawnmarie says with the relationships established, with the ability to pick up the phone and say, "We need to have a conversation," you've already set the stage.

[18:11] Dawnmarie says emerging risks the insurance industry needs to pay attention to in the next three to five years include addressing AI. Will AI drive margins down? We need to leverage it to do our jobs better. We can't just decide that we're simply going to depend on it.

[18:37] AI exists. It's there as a tool. We need to prepare our people to be able to assess it, analyze it, understand it, and program the prompts. The best prompt writers are getting the best results.

[18:56] It doesn't mean it's a perfect result, so you need the ability to communicate, analyze, and explain why the output makes sense and how it applies.

[19:20] Another emerging need is for more and more data and the ability to depend on that data, using AI to help understand it and being able to explain the data to the board why they can take a larger retention, or why we need more cover in this area.

[19:54] Dawnmarie talks about weather-related events. Catastrophic events aren't going away; they're getting worse. Illinois has had more convective storms this year than any other state. It's unexpected and unprepared for.

[20:16] The unexpected storm volume creates a shift for the underwriters, clients, and brokers, making sure they have the data to understand what's been exposed and what's been impacted.

[20:30] The models need to address these shifts. We need, as an industry, to be pushing for that: the stronger the models, the more differentiated the models we can have.

[20:42] Maybe that's where AI plays a great role, helping us in the changing and adaptation. These are trends Dawnmarie watches. She is so impressed with the data that Amwins has to work with.

[21:06] When you have that good data, the world opens up to capital and new strategies. It makes a big difference in where an organization will go strategically. That impacts everybody.

[21:23] Sponsorships! You can sponsor a RIMScast episode for this, our weekly show, or a dedicated episode. RIMScast is proud of its longstanding relationships with AXA XL, Global Risk Consultants, Alliant, Zurich, and more.

[21:44] Links to many of these episodes are in the show notes. RIMScast sponsorships can be bundled with whitepapers and webinar sponsorships.

[21:52] RIMScast has a global audience of risk and insurance professionals, legal professionals, students, business leaders, C-Suite executives, and more. Let's collaborate and help you reach them!

[22:05] Reach out to Ted Donovan at [email protected] or reach out to Sales at [email protected]. Let's find the best opportunity for you and your organization.

[22:18] Let's Conclude Our Dialog with APIW President Dawnmarie Black!

[22:54] To help make insurance careers more appealing to young professionals and career changers, Dawnmarie asks you to stop saying, "I just fell into insurance." We have a story to tell.

[23:13] There is a reason someone came into this industry. It probably wasn't planned, but how they got started and why they stayed; we need to talk more about why people stay in insurance. Because they love it! It is a wonderful ecosystem for growth and travel. It's stable.

[23:37] APIW just held Intern Days, one in New York, one in Chicago. This was their first year in Chicago, and about 20 people came. It was their second year in New York. About 50 came.

[23:51] Dawnmarie says we do this out of our budget. There's no charge for it. We bring the interns together for four hours. They do a leadership panel, networking, and answering questions.

[24:04] Dawnmarie says a lot of other associations do this. She mentions RISE Professionals. They had a terrific Leadership Conference and Gala in Florida.

[24:20] That's an opportunity for young professionals to come together with very good programming around leadership. Networking with their peers and colleagues. Dressing up and going to a gala and celebrating. Dawnmarie has heard only positive feedback about that.

[24:38] APIW supports RISE. RISE supports the APIW Mentorship Program. You'll see a lot of interconnectivity among the insurance associations. They partner to share great programs rather than duplicating efforts. It helps both associations.

[25:01] The market in Charlotte rallies around Community Matters. There was a week-long session two weeks ago bringing in young children from under-represented communities to learn and understand about insurance.

[25:20] Dawnmarie says those kinds of programs where we're reaching out to talent, not only through traditional risk management schools, but looking at non-traditional avenues and non-traditional diversity avenues, and the HBCUs. The Black Sisterhood does incredible work.

[26:05] Justin gives a shoutout to the Spencer Educational Foundation. Dawnmarie says they have done such an incredible job in rallying the industry.

[26:22] At the Spencer dinner, when the young professionals get up to speak, they are inspirational in their careers and their appreciation for the opportunities to come into this industry. Justin doesn't know how they found time to sleep, doing all they did while in college.

[26:57] Justin and Dawnmarie discuss some of the speakers. He says, you hear these young people and wonder if they partied at all in college or were they just working on their risk management career? Justin notes there is the monetary incentive of scholarships and grants.

[27:41] Dawnmarie speaks of the incredible amount of work ethic she sees in the students who have come through the Spencer Educational Foundation program. Justin says they inspire him to work a little harder.

[28:08] Justin asks how we can keep the newer professionals engaged and committed to a long career. Dawnmarie says what seems to be important to them is that sense of community.

[28:24] We all come to work to work, but there's also the culture that you create, the culture of trust, and the idea that there are mentorship opportunities, and more senior people in the organization looking out for you, helping propel your career and answering your questions.

[28:48] Dawnmarie says that is key when you've got the younger generation, and you've got an experienced generation. In our industry, we have four or five different generations rolling through, all who come at things slightly differently.

[29:03] Dawnmarie says it's about understanding where people are coming from. She speaks of investing in talent development programs and professional programs, allowing talent the opportunity to become involved in outside associations, and encouraging networking.

[29:40] Dawnmarie closes this thought with the Amwins program, RTTP. They have people on the retirement track, senior brokers with books of business, and they have young people who are coming through the Broker Development Program.

[30:14] Two get matched up. There's a relationship formed. The client is taken care of because there's succession planning and consistency. The two are learning from each other. The books are passed off.

[30:28] There's respect for the experience that the senior broker brings to the table, and there's respect for what that young person is learning. Dawnmarie hasn't seen a lot of that across the industry. One of the things that enticed her about Amwins is that approach to the generations.

[30:54] Justin says kudos to Amwins. He has met some Amwins folks at Riskworld, and they're lovely. A Justin and Dawnmarie have in common is Liz King Kramer, a former APIW President. Liz gave Justin an APIW pin.

[31:18] Dawnmarie says Liz is the best! She has been mentoring Dawnmarie for over four years. Liz was Treasurer before Dawnmarie, and President before Dawnmarie. Liz helped Dawnmarie learn in both roles. She's become a terrific friend and partner.

[31:42] Munich Re just hosted a Golf Day for women. Dawnmarie was on a Panel with Liz King Kramer and Sabrina Hart, and then they did a golf clinic. Liz is an incredible leader for APIW.

[31:59] Dawnmarie says an APIW President's term is two years. Dawnmarie is at two years; however, she is going to extend for one more year. Then Tracey Vasile, who is an Industry Liaison and First Vice President, is going to step in. They will transition together.

[32:27] The APIW is having its 50th Anniversary Gala on Tuesday, Nov. 3, 2026, at the Edison Ballroom in Manhattan on 47th Street. Everyone's gearing up. They are working on a wonderful video. Dawnmarie says it's going to be a night to remember; everybody dress up and celebrate!

[32:56] Dawnmarie says the women who are involved, chapter heads from the various cities, the 2026 Woman of the Year, 14 past Women of the Year, and Cecilia Norad, the Founder of APIW, are all coming for an incredible lineup of programming, a beautiful dinner, and a beautiful event

[33:47] Dawnmarie says it's for making connections and strengthening those connections.

[33:51] Dawnmarie has had the opportunity to sit as a founder on Women In Specialty and Excess (WISE), an amazing emerging organization, and it was simply too much for her between being President of APIW and being part of WISE, so she stepped back.

[34:07] Dawnmarie said what it made her realize is that the professionals in this industry, it could be any of the associations, step up, look outside of their sphere, and create these opportunities for other people to connect in these associations.

[34:26] Dawnmarie says when she thinks about 50 years, she thinks about all the work that has gone into standing up WISE or what Amy Cooper did with RISE, and where she's taking it. Fifty years of doing it really says a lot.

[34:40] Dawnmarie says it's a time to pause and think: where are we going for our next 50? Because we're going to be here and we're going to be delivering the program, the networking, the development, and the leadership.

[34:52] Dawnmarie says that is what we're excited about. We're looking at the past, the current, the future, and bringing in the young professionals; the people who helped build it and the young professionals, bridging that divide.

[35:36] Dawnmarie says she has a level of comfort on stage. During COVID, she learned that she struggles with virtual presentations.

[35:47] Dawnmarie used to get nervous in front of people; now she gets excited because she feels the energy in the room, she's creating the conversation, and engaging people. It is such a different experience. In a way, she's grateful for the virtual experience. It's taken away the fear.

[36:12] Justin says, Dawnmarie, it has been a pleasure to connect with you here on RIMScast. A quick reminder for everyone: The APIW's 50th Anniversary Gala will be on Tuesday, November 3, 2026, at the Edison Ballroom at 47th Street in Manhattan.

[36:28] Justin says, Dawnmarie will be there. If you attend, please let her know that you heard this RIMScast interview, and that's what piqued your interest to get there. I look forward to seeing you at RIMS events and Spencer events, too.

[36:41] Dawnmarie thanks Justin and RIMS and says, 350 of us at the Gala, maybe more. We look forward to seeing you there.

[36:54] Special thanks again to Dawnmarie Black of Amwins and APIW for joining us here on RIMScast. APIW's 50th Anniversary Gala will be on November 3, 2026, at the Edison Ballroom in New York City. Visit APIW.org.

[37:10] The countdown ticker for the Gala is on the page. Check it out and let them know you heard Dawnmarie on RIMSCast!

[27:18] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email [email protected] for more information.

[37:35] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[37:51] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.

[38:05] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at [email protected].

[38:17] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!

Links:

RIMS Texas Regional Conference 2026 | Aug. 10‒12 in San Antonio | Last call for registration!

RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 21‒24 | Complimentary For All

Spencer Educational Foundation's 2026 Funding Their Future Gala | Sept. 17, 2026

RISKWORLD 2027 Registration | RIMS members can lock in 2026 rates now through Sept. 4 | Education Content Submission Through Aug. 21.

ChicagoLand Risk Forum | Sept. 24, 2026

RIMS Western Regional Conference — Oct. 4‒7, 2026 | Seattle, WA | Register Today.

RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | www.rimscanadaconference.ca | Advance Registration Open | Sponsorship Opportunities Available

RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | www.rims.org/ERM2026

RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management

Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines.

RIMS Now

RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan!

The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center

RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council

RIMS-CRMP Stories

RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live

RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy

RIMScast on YouTube!

RIMS Risk Management Magazine | Contribute | Q2 2026 Issue Now Available

Sponsor RIMScast — [email protected]

www.APIW.org — 50th Anniversary Gala on Nov. 3 in NYC

Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops:

RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep Workshop — Live In NY — Aug 27‒28!

RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep with PARIMA | Sept 1‒2

Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule

See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops

Upcoming RIMS Webinars:

RIMS.org/Webinars

"RIMS Student Series: Classroom to Career Part 1" | Sept 1

"RIMS Student Series: Classroom to Career Part 2" | Sept 9

RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 22‒24 | Complimentary For All

Related RIMScast Episodes:

"Taking on Global Leadership in Insurance with Sierra Signorelli, Spencer Funding Their Future Honoree"

"Marya Propis: From Industry Leader to Talent Champion"

"Giving Back with APIW President Liz Kramer" (2024)

Sponsored RIMScast Episodes:

"48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before A Hurricane Strikes" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company (New!)

"AI-Scale, Risk Ready: Engineering Controls for the New Data Center Boom" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Facing Into Risk: Navigating the New Risk Landscape" (New!) | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Secondary Perils, Major Risks: The New Face of Weather-Related Challenges" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"The ART of Risk: Rethinking Risk Through Insight, Design, and Innovation" | Sponsored by Alliant

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"Cyberrisk: Preparing Beyond 2025" | Sponsored by Alliant

"The New Reality of Risk Engineering: From Code Compliance to Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL

"Change Management: AI's Role in Loss Control and Property Insurance" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company

"Demystifying Multinational Fronting Insurance Programs" | Sponsored by Zurich

"Understanding Third-Party Litigation Funding" | Sponsored by Zurich

"What Risk Managers Can Learn From School Shootings" | Sponsored by Merrill Herzog

"Simplifying the Challenges of OSHA Recordkeeping" | Sponsored by Medcor

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RIMS Publications, Content, and Links:

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About our guest: Dawnmarie Black, Senior Vice President and Client Relationship Manager at Amwins

President of the Association of Professional Insurance Women (APIW)

Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.

In this episode, Justin interviews Colette Cummins, Chief Risk Officer of Inland Fisheries Ireland and a RIMS-CRMP Commissioner, on what it's like to be a CRO in an organization whose mission is protecting a national natural resource. Justin invites Colette to share her career journey, and she tells how she developed in credit risk management, audit, and enterprise risk management, and how she landed in the public sector, protecting the environment while guiding Inland Fisheries Ireland toward building a solid risk framework. Colette speaks of the surprises she found in the public sector, and the impressive risk mindset and commitment she finds at IFI.

Listen for principles of building out risk registers and a risk framework, whether in the private sector or a public sector agency.

Key Takeaways:

[:01] About RIMS and RIMScast.

[:16] About this episode of RIMScast. Our guest today is Collete Cummins. She is the Chief Risk Officer for Inland Fisheries Ireland and a RIMS-CRMP Commissioner. We're going to have a great dialog. But first…

[:42] RIMS-CRMP Workshop. We are delighted to announce that on August 27th and 28th, RIMS President Manny Padilla will be leading the two-day in-person workshop at St. John's University at 101 Astor Place in New York City. A link to the registration is in this episode's show notes.

[1:02] RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops. RIMS will partner with PARIMA for the RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep on September 1st and 2nd. Registration links are in this episode's show notes.

[1:12] On the webinars page, you will see a two-part series hosted by the RIMS Membership Department. The "Classroom to Career" webinar series highlights how RIMS equips students with the knowledge, skills, and connections needed to thrive in risk management careers.

[1:28] Participants will gain insights into industry trends, career pathways, and practical tools that help them confidently step into the evolving world of risk management after graduation. These sessions will be hosted on September 1st and 9th.

[1:41] These sessions are member exclusives and are complimentary for RIMS members, of course. So, if you are interested in becoming a member, this would be the time. Visit RIMS.org/membership.

[1:51] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today!

[2:08] On with the Show! Our guest today is Colette Cummins. She is the Chief Risk Officer for Inland Fisheries Ireland. The IFI is the dedicated state agency for protecting, managing, and conserving Ireland's inland fisheries and sea angling resources.

[2:26] Colette is the agency's first CRO, but she's not new to risk management. We're going to hear about her career journey and why she feels that this position was custom-made for her, combining her love for environmental awareness with her risk management knowledge.

[2:42] Colette is also a RIMS-CRMP Commissioner, and on September 24th, you can hear from her directly, along with Elliott Long, another RIMS-CRMP Commissioner, in the informational session, "A Conversation with RIMS-CRMP Commissioners Who Hold the Credential." [2:58] That's a free informational session. Visit RIMS.org/CertificationWeek for more information. A link is in this episode's show notes. But we're here to talk with Colette about her fascinating career and risk philosophies. Let's get to it!

[3:13] Interview! Colette Cummins, Welcome to RIMScast!

[3:28] Colette was told once that she is excessively optimistic. She's very positive. She took it as a compliment.

[4:18] Colette started fresh out of university in credit analysis and credit risk management. She worked in a few financial services organizations. It gave her a taste for risk management at a high level. It was around portfolio analysis and the credit history of customers.

[4:51] The role Colette was in wound down, and she was looking to move into a different area in the company, Hewlett Packard Enterprise, in the financial services subsidiary. An opportunity came up to work in internal audit. She decided to try it for a year. She stayed in it for 15 years.

[5:32] In the middle of those 15 years, Colette had an interim stint in Operational Risk Management for a year and a half, and she loved it.

[5:47] Colette says, in Operational Risk, you're seeing down at a tactical level how to manage and monitor risk. It was very much around risk monitoring.

[6:01] Colette explains why she stayed in internal audit for 15 years. Ten years were spent in various internal audit management roles in the financial services subsidiary. It was a tough time for HPE in terms of meeting the new regulatory challenges in Ireland and Europe for financial services.

[6:41] Colette was asked to take on the Head of Internal Audit role. She did that for five years. She went into Internal Audit for one year in 2008. In 2015, she worked in Operational Risk. In 2017, she was asked to come back to take over as Head of Internal Audit.

[7:11] It was a challenging situation because new EU regulations were coming in for banks and financial services businesses. It was a lot of pressure to meet these. There was a lot of scrutiny from Irish regulators. It was a challenging environment for Internal Audit.

[7:53] When Colette moved in as Head of Internal Audit, it was a pivotal role in terms of steering the organization through that regulatory time. It was a great learning experience and very helpful now that she's in a public sector role.

[8:09] Colette says, the whole time she was Head of Internal Audit, she was thinking, "How do I get back to Risk? How do I get out of here?" She loved Operational Risk.

[8:27] Colette networked heavily within the organization. She got the opportunity to move out of Financial Services up into the global HPE organization as an Enterprise Risk Manager. She got that role through networking. She enjoyed that ERM role and did it for about five years.

[9:26] Colette says it was a strategic role. She was working with the heads of each business unit, reviewing their risks. It had a very heavy emphasis on reporting to the audit committee and the board on what was happening in risk management in the business units.

[9:58] Colette didn't feel as if she was effecting change or driving new strategies within the organization, but she learned a huge amount about negotiating with senior management and a lot about the fundamentals of risk management.

[10:18] For the last year or two of her role, Colette wondered what she was doing there. She had a sense of wanting to stay in risk management but wanting to do something different, maybe something more value-add and less commercially driven.

[10:39] Colette says towards the end of 2025, HPE announced it was cutting resources and implementing cost-cutting initiatives. As part of that, her role was made redundant. At first, it was a big upheaval and quite a shock after 22 years with the organization.

[11:03] Colette says that upheaval turned into a great opportunity. It was the push she needed to ask herself where she wanted to go and what she wanted to do. It was an opportunity to try something completely different.

[11:28] Colette says she didn't know anybody in the public sector. She had no contacts. But in Ireland, you cannot in any way canvass for jobs in the public sector. Everything is heavily regulated with very strict anti-corruption regulations.

[11:54] Colette says she had no knowledge of the organization. She had no intention of applying for a role for at least six months. But she started looking at what was out there. She was going to put some time into development and building out her CV and getting some qualifications.

[12:33] Colette says she had been thinking she would like to do something in the public sector; something more meaningful and less commercially-driven. She wanted to do something with more autonomy, more impact, and more control over risk at the organisation.

[12:54] Colette says, one Wednesday afternoon, she was looking, and she saw this job that had just come up. It's in exactly the right location, it's public sector, and it's IFI, an environmental body. Colette said, "Wow! This is it!" Forgetting her six months off, she had to go for it.

[13:19] Colette interviewed for the job when she hadn't yet finished her old role at HPE. She was hugely busy, trying to wrap up her role and interviewing. The interview process for the public sector in Ireland is extremely rigorous and tough. She was successful in the role.

[13:43] Colette says she just had a couple of weeks off and then went straight into it in March of 2026. She has been CRO at Inland Fisheries Ireland for four months now.

[14:06] Colette says IFI is the state organization that is responsible for protecting the fish stock in Ireland. Ireland is a country with a lot of waterways. IFI is responsible for protecting the fish in 45,000 miles of rivers, 128,000 hectares of lakes, and 3,500 miles of shoreline.

[14:43] It's doing everything to protect and restore the fish stock in those areas. Historically, the organization was very much about protection, preventing fishermen from overfishing and from fishing illegally, especially protected species. IFI has a substantial staff who patrol the rivers.

[15:17] Now IFI is working on pollution, reacting to any pollution episodes and ensuring that they're investigated and stopped. Colette says that prevention measures sit with a different state body. The Environmental Protection Agency works on the prevention of pollution.

[15:41] Colette says because the IFI has staff on the ground, it will see pollution coming in, react to it, and get in touch with the EPA to say, We've seen something coming into this river at this location. We need your team out here to source and stop it.

[16:08] The IFI staff on the ground takes samples of the water and has them ready for when the EPA team comes to look at it. Another huge element of what the IFI does is restoring the habitat and creating the perfect environment for the fish. They research how the stock is developing.

[16:35] The IFI research teams go out and do things like electrofishing, where they stun the fish for a few seconds to take a scale from the fish, test it, and work out the genetic trail of the fish and where they've come from. There's a huge amount of information they take from that.

[16:58] The IFI works on the rivers, as well. Salmon, in particular, always go back to where they spawned. You need to keep that route open for them. If a barrier, like a dam, has been built, the IFI team works with construction companies to remove those.

[17:19] The IFI has a wide series of activities: patrolling, protection, pollution, habitat restoration, and research. Colette is sure risk professionals hearing this are saying, That's a lot of risks!

[17:37] Justin points out that the IFI covers thousands of miles. It's not just the particulars of the job but also the volume and area it has to cover.

[18:03] Colette says the other element is that fishing or angling is part of Ireland's tourist industry. The IFI promotes fishing, without overfishing, obviously, and supports and partners with the local fishing organizations.

[18:28] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026. You can register now for the Second Annual RIMS Texas Regional Conference, which will be held from August 10th through the 12th at the Grand Hyatt on the San Antonio River Walk.

[18:44] Visit RIMS.org/Events for registration information. The hotel cutoff date was July 10th. Reservations may still be made after the hotel cutoff date, subject to availability; however, the negotiated group rate is no longer guaranteed, so reserve now.

[19:00] The 11th Annual Chicagoland Risk Forum will return to the Old Post Office on Thursday, September 24th, 2026. Visit ChicagolandRiskForum.org for more information.

[19:11] The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit RIMSWesternRegional.com and the link in this episode's show notes for more information.

[19:28] Save the dates: October 18th through the 21st. We will be in Quebec City to celebrate the 50th Live RIMS Canada Conference. Booth sales are open, and sponsorship opportunities are still available. Advance registration is open now.

[19:44] Visit RIMSCanadaConference.ca for more information. Also, remember to check out RIMS.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, hosted by National Conference Committee Chair, Aaron Lukoni.

[19:59] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration is now open.

[20:08] An announcement seeking nominations for the RIMS Global ERM Award of Distinction will be made public in July. Visit RIMS.org/ERM2026.

[20:19] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st! The call for session proposals is now live and will stay active through August 21st.

[20:34] RIMS members can exclusively register by September 4th for the best rate. And get first access to the hotel block. Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk! The link to registration is in this episode's show notes.

[20:54] Let's Return to Our Interview with Inland Fisheries CRO and RIMS-CRMP Commissioner Colette Cummins!

[21:05] Justin comments that fish is a critical food source, so IFI has to make sure that they're clean, healthy, and they keep repopulating. Colette agrees but says that it's less about food and more about environmental protection.

[21:23] Colette says some species have been reduced a huge amount in the last number of years because of things like pollution, habitat destruction, etc. It's really about environmental protection, restoring that stock, and bringing it back to where it should be for a natural balance.

[21:42] Colette says her CRO role is new at IFI. That's what made it even more exciting for her. She says, when she came in, it was basically a blank sheet. IFI had dealt with risk by using a third party to give them a risk management model and some training.

[22:10] Colette says the IFI was trying to work with that in-house, without any risk management expertise. It brought in a bit of a risk mindset, but essentially, Colette had a clean sheet to start with. She came in in March, and now she's building out the risk register.

[22:36] Colette's first task was to design the risk framework. Colette loves risk management and has done lots of various elements of it, but she's never had complete autonomy, where she was driving change in the organization.

[22:55] By full autonomy, Colette means she owns everything. Anything that happens to do with risk comes to her.

[23:01] Up until now, Colette's role has been designing the framework: establishing how the organization is going to manage risk, building that out, getting people on board with that framework. It's split into six departments within the organization.

[23:29] Each head of that department, or ELT member, will own their risk register, or their list of risks. Colette is working closely with them to ensure they have all their risks listed within that register and that they fully understand them.

[23:48] Colette is looking at their controls and helping them devise new controls, looking at how the risk matches the risk appetite of the organization, and working with the next level of management beneath them to help them develop their risk registers to report up to the ELT.

[24:40] Colette says IFI had been trying to recruit a CRO for some time. She wishes she had known! She would have applied last year. She just happened to see it. The existing model wasn't working. There was a real need.

[25:00] The audit committee and board were saying they weren't happy. They said they needed to see risk management alive in the organization. Colette had to dive straight in, hit the ground running, and start building it out straightaway. It was exactly the challenge she was looking for.

[25:18] Colette says it's so good to have that autonomy and responsibility, but also accountability. She is completely accountable for everything that happens with risk. Colette gets each member of the ELT to develop their risk register and report that up to the audit committee.

[25:45] If anybody is doing anything where they want to think about risk, they talk to Colette. It's not complicated. They don't go to somebody else. Everybody knows, if it's got the word "risk," they come to Colette. Colette says the full visibility of everything is great.

[26:19] Colette says she's starting with a very simplistic model to build the registers. She says it's drawn more from ISO, but it's a very simplistic model to get the organization started. Colette moved from a private-sector global IT company to the public sector.

[26:56] The one thing that is challenging is that things move much slower in government. It moves much slower, and that's probably even more so in Ireland than in Europe and maybe than in the U.S.

[27:16] You could come in and see this is the change that is needed, and think you could go ahead and effect that change within a couple of weeks? Oh, no you don't! You need to take everything slowly and get the right approvals and authorizations, etc.

[27:29] Colette says she is starting with a really simplistic model: set out your risks, set out your controls, set out your mitigating actions, and then, we're going to get the organization working on that with that framework.

[27:43] Colette hopes to do it within six months, but knowing the public sector, it could be a year. Then start building in other elements to it to make it a more mature and sophisticated framework.

[28:19] Every change has to be approved by the Audit and Risk Committee (ARC). If Colette wants to make a small tweak in the existing framework, it goes back to the Audit and Risk Committee, which meets every three months.

[28:51] Colette presented to the ARC in June. She presented how she wanted to move forward. There was no question. She knew they were going to approve it. She couldn't just go ahead and put the framework in place.

[29:08] It needs to go through the protocols and have the conversation with the ARC and just take it nice and slow to effect any change. That is one challenge that's different for Colette. But otherwise, she can bring all of her experience from different areas and use every bit of it.

[29:37] One More Quick Break! RIMS has launched RIMS, The Foundation for Risk ManagementTM. The Foundation is dedicated to shaping the future of the profession. Contribute to strengthen the global risk management community and invest in the future of the industry.

[29:57] The Foundation also supports the Spencer Educational Foundation but has a different mission. The Foundation focuses on providing opportunities for those professionals who have already decided to enter risk management and are just getting started.

[30:11] You can learn more about the Foundation by visiting RIMS.org/FRM.

While you're there, be sure to check out information about the Susan Meltzer Scholarship Fund, which was established to honor Ms. Meltzer, who was RIMS President in 1999 and 2000.

[30:30] Susan Meltzer was a cherished RIMS President and contributed so much to RIMS and the greater risk community. Learn more at RIMS.org/FRM.

[30:39] Let's Return to Our Interview with Colette Cummins!

[30:53] Colette Cummins is speaking with us today from County Kildare, about 30 miles outside Dublin, Ireland. The IFI offices are on the edge of Dublin, the capital of Ireland. Colette says the land is actually greener and more beautiful than the travel brochures could describe.

[31:30] Colette says Ireland is full of rich waterways, which keeps her in a job. She lives near Dublin but is originally from the Southwest of Ireland, which is by far the most beautiful. The coastline is stunning. It's where most Irish go on holidays. It's gorgeous.

[32:00] Colette says the accent in the Southwest of Ireland is different. Colette's husband from the middle of Ireland requests subtitles when he visits her family in the Southwest. Colette describes the difference between the accents in the South and North of Ireland.

[33:05] Colette says the IFI Corporate Risk Register has generic risks around AI, cyber, training, and resources.

[33:33] One of their biggest risks is health and safety. Staff are going out and patrolling rivers. They will sometimes come across fishermen who are happily overfishing and not keen to meet a patrolling officer who tells them they shouldn't be taking all this fish and depleting the stocks.

[34:08] There is a health and safety risk with the patrolling officer being out on a river on boats. There is a health and safety risk in meeting an acrimonious and adversarial fisherman.

[34:28] Because IFI does research, they have staff in labs, using high-tech equipment, with a health and safety risk. They have engineers looking at the rivers and habitats and maybe some constructions in the rivers that need to be removed. They have a health and safety risk.

[34:37] These are new risks and things for Colette to get her head around. How do we do this? How do we manage that? And the other side is regulation. There are a lot of different regulations that impact IFI.

[35:22] Colette says, In the public sector, your reputation is critically important, because you're the face of the state. Reputation is an impact factor you need to build into every risk. If IFI does something wrong, it could end up in the national media the day after. IFI uses taxpayers' money.

[36:15] Colette says another huge category of risk for IFI is procurement, ensuring they are using taxpayers' money in the right way and not misusing it.

[36:50] Colette says that prioritizing risks comes back to the goals. In procurement, there is the risk of spending money in a way that's not compliant. There is also the risk that there are too many procurement controls and the business can't move fast enough or do what it needs to do.

[37:24] Colette says it comes to the organizational goals. What is the impact on the organizational goals? Which risk is going to have a greater detrimental impact on the organization's mission? One caveat: the health and well-being of the staff override everything.

[37:55] Health and safety risk trumps everything. IFI would be completely averse to any risk that will impact the health and safety of the staff. Health and safety trumps every other risk.

[38:16] Justin says he and Colette met recently for the RIMS-CRMP series where everyone can see her on September 24th. Justin says Colette is very positive and upbeat and speaks about her role with a lot of enthusiasm and joviality.

[38:39] Colette says there are 330 people in IFI. It's not commercially driven, so a lot of people are at IFI because they love the work. For some people Colette works with, it's a vocation. They would nearly do the same job without being paid because they have such passion for it.

[39:11] Colette met with the research team on site at the rivers to get a better understanding and just to see the passion they have for the job. Using her risk knowledge to help them do their jobs better and to help them protect themselves from risks was rewarding and enjoyable to Colette.

[39:45] Colette says being able to use her experience across the organization is just fantastic. Colette has a lot of different experience, and to bring it all together and use it every day when she is challenged with a new task is fantastic and very rewarding.

[40:27] Colette says this is the field staff's very busy time because this is when all the fishing is happening, this is when pollution is more likely to happen, and when the temperatures go up, the fish are under pressure, so you have to try and protect the waters.

[40:42] Colette says the research staff was delighted to hear that someone was coming down from the head office to go out and make the time to really understand the organization. They were very anxious to show her everything. There is such pride in the organization.

[41:!5] Justin says a lot of the risk professionals listening are in the private sector, and he asks Colette what would most surprise them about risk management in a public environmental organization.

[41:40] Colette says a lot of the differences in the public sector are what you would expect: things move slower, and the protocols.

[41:49] What surprised Colette the most is what a strong risk mindset they have. There's a good understanding of risk already, even through the layers of management. They can look at what's going on, the processes, and the activities and ask, "What are the risks here?"

[42:16] There is also a commitment to risk that Colette was not expecting. She was expecting to meet a research manager who wanted to research and leave risks to Colette. She hasn't had that anywhere. They all ask her to talk with them about their risks. "Am I managing them right?"

[42:39] Colette says there is knowledge and commitment, and that has been the biggest surprise for her. It obviously makes her job a lot easier.

[42:48] Justin says this is excellent. It has been such a pleasure to meet you these last couple of days. We're going to see you during RIMS Certification week on September 24th.

[42:57] Justin says, You will be co-hosting the informational session, "A Conversation with RIMS-CRMP Commissioners Who Hold the Credential." You're such a breath of fresh air. We really appreciate your contributions, and I learned a lot speaking with you today and yesterday.

[41:12] Justin says, You have a fascinating job, and I hope that you have a chance to attend a RIMS event, maybe lead a session, and connect with our live audiences, as well. Colette says she would love to at some stage in the future.

[43:32] Special thanks again to Colette Cummins of Inland Fisheries Ireland for joining us here on RIMScast.

[43:38] You can hear Colette again on September 24th during RIMS Certification Week for the special informational session, "A Conversation with RIMS-CRMP Commissioners Who Hold the Credential."

[43:49] That session will be held at 10:00 a.m. Eastern. Visit RIMS.org/CertificationWeek. The link is also in this episode's show notes. We've got sessions on the 22nd, 23rd, and 24th of September. We look forward to seeing you there.

[44:05] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email [email protected] for more information.

[44:22] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more.

[44:39] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management.

[44:52] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at [email protected].

[43:05] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!

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About our guest: Colette Cummins, Chief Risk Officer, Inland Fisheries Ireland

RIMS-CRMP Commissioner

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