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Welcome to another exciting live episode from the IAAI-ITC 2025 conference in Atlantic City! Hosts Scott Kuhlman and Chasity Owens bring you their final live recording from the conference, featuring an incredible interview with renowned fire fatality expert Elayne Pope. 

If you've ever wondered what happens to the human body during a fire, this episode is essential listening. Elayne Pope, one of the foremost experts in fire fatalities, shares her fascinating journey from art major to forensic anthropologist specializing in fire death investigation. Her groundbreaking research has debunked long-standing myths in the fire investigation community, including misconceptions about exploding skulls and spontaneous human combustion.

Key highlights from the interview:

• How Elayne transitioned from studying art to becoming a pioneer in fire fatality research
• The shocking truth behind fire investigation myths that were taught industry-wide for decades
• Why pig testing doesn't accurately replicate human fire fatalities
• The critical importance of proper scene preservation and body handling
• How bodies actually move and change position during fires - something most investigators don't realize
• Essential do's and don'ts when working fire fatality scenes

Personal Updates & Big News

Chasity shares exciting news about becoming a co-owner of her own fire investigation company, marking a major career milestone at just 30 years old. Meanwhile, Scott discusses their agency's successful FI-210 wildland fire investigation class, which included an impressive 26 live wildland burns with support from IAAI's Rick Jones.

Training Opportunities & Upcoming Events

The hosts provide a comprehensive roundup of upcoming training opportunities, including:

• Hawaii's annual fire investigation training (August 5-8)
• Indiana Fire Investigation Conference (August 10-13)
• Tennessee Chapter ATC (August 18-22)
• Special webinar on Wildland Fire Investigation (August 7th) featuring Scott and Shaun Miller
• Nebraska, North Dakota, and California conferences throughout September and October

Technical Discussion: Fire Patterns & Terminology

The episode continues their educational series on fire patterns with a deep dive into "full room involvement generated patterns." Scott and Chasity explain why they prefer using "full room involvement" over "flashover" in their reports, sharing insights on how terminology choices can protect investigators during legal proceedings.

Sponsor Spotlight

Clean Space Technology's Tim Costa joins the show to discuss respiratory protection innovations specifically designed for fire investigators, addressing the common complaint that traditional respirators "suck" and how their technology makes protection more comfortable and effective.

This episode perfectly balances technical education with real-world practical advice, making it valuable for both new and experienced fire investigators. Whether you're interested in the science behind fire fatalities or looking to improve your investigation techniques, this conversation with Elayne Pope offers insights you won't find anywhere else.

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