Mike sits down with the philosopher Samuel Loncar to discuss falling in love with wisdom, even if that leads us to wrestle wisdom out of our biggest fears, suffering and losses as our wounds lead to our wonderings. We cover everything from why ancient philosophy might be better understood as science and magic—and Socrates and Jesus might have been magicians—to why Wizards are so popular right now, and why the greatest secret to being fully alive might just learning to die before you die.

Samuel Loncar PhD practices the ancient art of philosophy, linked to the origins of science, Western spirituality and contemplative practice, that promotes the perpetual evolution of human potential. He is the Editor of the Marginalia Review of Books, the Director of the Institute for the Meanings of Science, and the founder of the Becoming Human Project. His Becoming Human Podcast is one of Mikes all time favs.