Saving Elephants | Millennials defending & expressing conservative values

In response to America's rapidly polarizing political divide a number of organizations have developed to try and turn down the heat. Braver Angels is the nation's largest movement dedicated to bridging the partisan gap. Their website boasts that they are "equally balanced between conservatives and progressives at every level of leadership". Back in episode 118, Mónica Guzmán with Braver Angels joined Josh to discuss how we might develop our sense of curiosity to bridge the partisanships. Mónica comes from the Left. In this episode Josh welcomes Elizabeth Doll with Braver Angels who hails from the Right. They discuss how an older and younger Millennial might differ in their political memories, whether conservatives ought to be reactionaries, what the Left and Right frequently misunderstand about the "other side", and a surprisingly unexpected dive into the vernacular of progressive America.

About Elizabeth Doll

From Braver Angels:

Elizabeth Doll joined Braver Angels in March 2022 as the Director of Braver Politics after four years of volunteering with the organization and many years working in politics in the Pacific Northwest. She began political work as a teen, when, while interning on a Congressional campaign, she became passionate about improving her community through civic engagement. Since then, Elizabeth has consulted for and worked on many state and local campaigns. She and her husband live on Bainbridge Island and when not engaged in politics, she enjoys photography, hiking, and horseback riding. You can follow Elizabeth on Twitter @doll_elizabeth

Populism is on the rise today—or so we're told. But what is populism? Is it something to be feared or should it only be concerning to those dastardly elites? Is populism a political movement of the Left or the Right? Is it only a phenomenon of the politics of today, or has populism existed in some form throughout our nation's history? Does populism protect the individual from powerful interests or endanger our liberties? How does populism fit into the conservative tradition?

Josh is joined by Shikha Dalmia of the Mercatus Center at George Mason University to delve into these very questions. While the first half of this atypically long episode explores populism, the latter end of the conversation covers the various factions of the New Right. Factions Shikha has dubbed the Flight 93ers, the Integralists, the National Conservatives, and the Red-Pilled Anarcho Bros. While traditional conservatives can find some value in all four groups, ultimately they represent a departure from the conservative view.

About Shikha Dalmia

From Shikha's bio at the Mercatus Center:

Shikha Dalmia is a visiting fellow with the Mercatus Center's Program on Pluralism and Civil Exchange whose work focuses on populist authoritarianism. Previously, Dalmia was a writer at Reason Magazine and a senior analyst at Reason Foundation, a nonprofit think tank. She is a columnist at The Week, and writes regularly for Bloomberg View, The New York Times, USA Today, and numerous other publications. From 1996-2004, Dalmia was an editorial writer at Detroit News.

Dalmia has an M.A. in Mass Communication from Louisiana State University and a B.S. in Chemistry and Biology from the University of Delhi. You can subscribe to Dalmia's substack, The UnPopulist, dedicated to defending open liberal societies from populist authoritarian attacks. And can follow Shikha on Twitter @shikhadalmia

1st Baron Acton, 13th Marquess of Groppoli, John Emerich Edward Dalberg-Acton who, for obvious reasons, is more commonly referred to as simply Lord Acton, was a 19th century writer, historian, and member of the British parliament whose contributions to history, faith, and politics are largely forgotten beyond his most famous quote: "Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely". Joining Josh to explore just why Acton was important and why he's worth studying today is Dan Hugger from the apply named Acton Institute.

About Dan Hugger

From Dan's bio: Dan Hugger is librarian and research associate at the Acton Institute for the Study of Religion & Liberty. He writes and speaks on questions of education, history, political economy, and religion, and is the editor of two books: Lord Acton: Historical and Moral Essays and The Humane Economist: A Wilhelm Röpke Reader.

About the Acton Institute

From Acton's website: The Acton Institute was founded in 1990 in Grand Rapids, Michigan as a think-tank whose mission is to promote a free and virtuous society characterized by individual liberty and sustained by religious principles. This direction recognizes the benefits of a limited government, but also the beneficent consequences of a free market. It embraces an objective framework of moral values, but also recognizes and appreciates the subjective nature of economic value. It views justice as a duty of all to give the one his due but, more importantly, as an individual obligation to serve the common good and not just his own needs and wants. In order to promote a more profound understanding of the coming together of faith and liberty, Acton involves members of religious, business, and academic spheres in its various seminars, publications, and academic activities.

Links to resources mentioned in the conversation:

Russell Kirk's last public address—at the Acton Institute—offering his critiques of Lord Acton

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCz023vKs98

Lord Acton: A Study in Conscience and Politics

https://shop.acton.org/products/lord-acton-a-study-in-conscience-and-politics?_pos=3&_sid=937cdddbd&_ss=r

Lord Acton: Historical and Moral Essays

https://shop.acton.org/products/lord-acton-historical-and-moral-essays?_pos=2&_sid=937cdddbd&_ss=r

Selected Writings of Lord Acton

https://www.libertyfund.org/books/selected-writings-of-lord-acton/

Lord Acton: Historian and Moralist

https://shop.acton.org/products/lord-acton-historian-and-moralist?_pos=1&_sid=937cdddbd&_ss=r

Lord Acton

https://www.amazon.com/Lord-Acton-Roland-Hill/dp/0300181272/ref=sr_1_8?crid=V218N459WQDX&keywords=lord+acton&qid=1673632551&qu=eyJxc2MiOiI0LjAzIiwicXNhIjoiMy45MCIsInFzcCI6IjMuNzkifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=lord+acton%2Caps%2C166&sr=8-8&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.006c50ae-5d4c-4777-9bc0-4513d670b6bc

Bradley Birzer's piece on Seven Conservative Minds

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/seven-conservative-minds/

Late last year Jonathan Cole had Saving Elephants host Josh Lewis on his podcast, The Political Animals, to talk about the quirkiness of American conservatism, the rise of the NatCons, and whether there's any hope for Josh's brand of fusionist conservatism in the future. The conversation was simply too good not to share, so here is a re-podcast of Jonathan's original episode.

About Jonathan Cole

From Jonathan Cole's website:

Dr Jonathan Cole is a scholar, writer, translator and lecturer specializing in political theology—the intersection between religion and politics.

He is currently Assistant Director of Research at the Australian Centre for Christianity and Culture at Charles Sturt University, Canberra, Australia, and host of The Political Animals Podcast: "Honest conversations about the political, theological and cultural ideas that shape who we are in the 21st century."

He has a PhD in political theology from CSU, an MA in Islamic theology and Middle Eastern politics from the Australian National University and a BA Hons in Modern Greek language and history from La Trobe University. He speaks Greek.

He spent 13 years working in a number of Australian federal government departments and agencies in Canberra, including seven years in intelligence, most recently as a Senior Terrorism Analyst at the Office of National Assessments (2010–2014).

Follow Jonathan on Facebook, Twitter, or Academia for his latest content.

CenterClip

Saving Elephants host Josh Lewis is honored to share he's joined the small but growing team of contributors at CenterClip, an exciting, new audio content platform featuring elevated political discourse. CenterClip is a free app with short audio clips from established political pundits, journalists, commentators, and politicians from across the political spectrum. All content is created and heard within the CenterClip app, including contributors interacting with each other's posts covering political commentary in real time. Download the app today and enjoy its elevated discourse.

While Saving Elephants is targeted to younger Americans, more and more Millennials cannot be counted among "the kids these days". Today's college students belong to Gen Z, and they are coming of age in one of the most turbulent political shifts and ideological realignments over the past half century. What are conservatives to make of this next generation? What challenges and opportunities do they present? Joining Josh to delve into this and more is Scott Howard, Gen Z representative and student at the University of Florida who possesses a remarkably Reaganite approach to politics in spite of his young age.

Josh and Scott discuss whether Gen Z is truly more woke than older generations, what's it like being a conservative on campus, the challenges "conservative" organizations like TPUSA and spokespeople like Charlie Kirk present to those who believe conservatism is about more than spreading liberal tears, the influence of nationalist populism among the young, and whether DeSantis is a viable alternative for the Trump-skeptical Republican.

About Scott Howard

Originally hailing from South Dakota, Scott Howard is a political science major at the University of Florida. He's a contributor to Lone Conservative, guest contributor to National Review, and writes his own newsletter The Conservative Muse.

You can follow Scott on Twitter @ConservaMuse

In 1953 sociologist Robert Nisbet published his most famous work The Quest for Community, arguing for the necessity of association to the human experience and the harm inflicted upon communities when they are deprived of their function. Traditional conservatism has long upheld Nisbet's teachings as a reminder that we are not purely material beings with strictly economic interests. Josh welcomes Luke Sheahan to this episode to discuss his efforts to pick up where Nisbet left off in fighting for the viability and flourishing of human associations, how the courts have gotten off-kilter in rulings regarding our freedom to associate, and why associations matter to each and every one of us.

About Luke Sheahan

From Luke's website: Luke Sheahan is Assistant Professor in the Department of Political Science at Duquesne University and a Non-Resident Scholar at the Program for Research on Religion and Urban Civil Society (PRRUCS) at the University of Pennsylvania. He researches the intersection of First Amendment rights and political theory. Sheahan's scholarly articles and reviews have appeared in The Political Science Reviewer, Humanitas, Anamnesis, and The Journal of Value Inquiry and he has lectured widely on religious liberty, freedom of speech, and freedom of association. He is author of Why Associations Matter: The Case for First Amendment Pluralism. He is writing a second book tentatively titled "Pluralism and Toleration: Difference, Justice, and the Social Group."

From 2018-2019, Sheahan was Associate Director and Post-Doctoral Research Fellow at the Freedom Project at Wellesley College and from 2016-2018, Sheahan was a Postdoctoral Associate and Research Fellow in the Department of Political Science at Duke University. He received a PhD and MA in political theory from the Catholic University of America and a B.S. in political science from the Honors College at Oregon State University. He is a five-time recipient of the Humane Studies Fellowship from the Institute for Humane Studies, a 2014 recipient of the Richard M. Weaver Fellowship from the Intercollegiate Studies Institute (ISI), and a 2018 recipient of the Leonard P. Liggio Memorial Fellowship.

In July of this year the Russell Kirk Center announced the appointment of Dr. Luke C. Sheahan as the fifth editor in the history of The University Bookman, originally established by none other than Russell Kirk, seeking to redeem the time by identifying and discussing those books that diagnose the modern age and support the renewal of culture and the common good.

You can follow Luke on Twitter @lsheahan

What is the great economic challenge of our times? Is it inflation? Rising inequality? Artificially low interest rates? Economist David Bahnsen joins Josh to discuss why excessive government debt and our slow-growth or no-growth economy risks the Japanification of the United States. While some warn of a financial apocalypse, David argues that a more realistic threat is continued lack of productive output and increasing discontents if we don't reverse course. Also discussed are how supply side economists can respond to the Left's critiques of the free market in the wake of the Great Recession and how Edmund Burke best represents American conservatism.

About David Bahnsen

From David's website:

David L. Bahnsen is the founder, Managing Partner, and Chief Investment Officer of The Bahnsen Group, a bi-coastal private wealth management firm with offices in Newport Beach, CA, New York City, Minneapolis, and Nashville managing over $3.5 billion in client assets. David is consistently named as one of the top financial advisors in America by Barron's, Forbes, and the Financial Times. He is a frequent guest on CNBC, Bloomberg, and Fox Business and is a regular contributor to National Review and Forbes. He has written his own political viewpoint blog for over a decade.

David serves on the Board of Directors for the National Review Institute and was the Vice-President of the Lincoln Club of Orange County for eight years. He is a committed donor and activist across all spectrums of national, state, and local politics, and views the cause of Buckley and Reagan as the need of the hour.

David is passionate about opposition to crony capitalism, and has lectured and written for years about the need for pro-growth economic policy. Every part of his political worldview stems from a desire to see greater freedom as a catalyst to greater human flourishing.

He is the author of the book, Crisis of Responsibility: Our Cultural Addiction to Blame and How You Can Cure It and his most recent book, There's No Free Lunch: 250 Economic Truths.

His ultimate passions are his lovely wife of 18+ years, Joleen, their gorgeous and brilliant children, sons Mitchell and Graham, and daughter Sadie, and the life they've created together in Newport Beach, California.

Listener Mail

At the end of the episode, Josh responds to a listener's question about book recommendations for those interested in conservatism. Below are the books included in his response:

The Conservative Mind: From Burke to Eliot by Russell Kirk

How to be a Conservative by Roger Scruton

What Is Conservatism? by Frank Meyer

Neo-conservatism: The Autobiography of an Idea by Irving Kristol

The Conservative Intellectual Movement in America Since 1945 by George Nash

The Right: The Hundred-Year War for American Conservatism by Matthew Continetti

Reflections on the Revolution in France by Edmund Burke

The Great Debate by Yuval Levin

Edmund Burke: A Genius Reconsidered by Russell Kirk

Basic Economics by Thomas Sowell

The Fatal Conceit by F.A. Hayek

I, Pencil by Leonard Read

Suicide of the West by Jonah Goldberg

Black Rednecks and White Liberals by Thomas Sowell

A Conflict of Vision by Thomas Sowell

Fools, Frauds and Firebrands: Thinkers of the New Left by Roger Scruton

Them by Ben Sasse

A Time to Build by Yuval Levin

Mónica Guzmán joins Saving Elephants host Josh Lewis as they reach across the political divide to explore how the Left and Right might better engage one another in respectful debate. Mónica shares her experiences as a liberal living in deep, blue Seattle yet grappling with her immigrant parent's support for Trump. They also discuss the limitations of reason to resolve our differences, why viewing people as complex and not merely complicated helps us bridge divides, and why Mónica has hope for a brighter future.

About Mónica Guzmán

Per her website, Mónica Guzmán is Senior Fellow for Public Practice at Braver Angels, a nonprofit working to depolarize America, host of Crosscut's interview series Civic Cocktail, and author of I Never Thought Of It That Way: How to Have Fearlessly Curious Conversations in Dangerously Divided Times.

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Moni was a 2019 fellow at the Henry M. Jackson Foundation, where she studied social and political division, and a 2016 fellow at the Nieman Foundation for Journalism at Harvard University, where she studied how journalists can better meet the needs of a participatory public.

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Before committing to the project of helping people understand each other across the political divide, Mónica cofounded the award-winning Seattle newsletter The Evergrey and led a national network of groundbreaking local newsletters as VP of Local for WhereBy.Us.

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She was named one of the 50 most influential women in Seattle, served twice as a juror for the Pulitzer Prizes, and plays a barbarian named Shadrack in her besties' Dungeons & Dragons campaign.

American conservatism has long struggled to reconcile the American Revolution with a worldview that defers to the slow accretion of cultural and historical development over generations. Yet some nations followed this more "conservative" path. How might American conservatism appear to them? Joining Josh in this episode is bona fide conservative and Australian Jonathan Cole to discuss how Australian conservatism differs from both the American and British models and what each of us might learn from the other. Also discussed are how Jonathan defines conservatism, whether it's an ideology or the negation of ideology, why conservatives are over-focused on power dynamics and have lost sight of the whole-life perspective of conservatism, how Australians view the politics of America, how American political culture impacts Australia, and the implications of the rise of China.

About Jonathan Cole

From Jonathan Cole's website:

Dr Jonathan Cole is a scholar, writer, translator and lecturer specializing in political theology—the intersection between religion and politics.

He is currently Assistant Director of Research at the Australian Centre for Christianity and Culture at Charles Sturt University, Canberra, Australia, and host of The Political Animals Podcast: "Honest conversations about the political, theological and cultural ideas that shape who we are in the 21st century."

He has a PhD in political theology from CSU, an MA in Islamic theology and Middle Eastern politics from the Australian National University and a BA Hons in Modern Greek language and history from La Trobe University. He speaks Greek.

He spent 13 years working in a number of Australian federal government departments and agencies in Canberra, including seven years in intelligence, most recently as a Senior Terrorism Analyst at the Office of National Assessments (2010–2014).

Follow Jonathan on Facebook, Twitter, or Academia for his latest content.

In an age where what passes for the archetype conservative are the likes of Candace Owens, Bill Mitchell, Sean Hannity, Matt Gaetz, Tomi Lahren, and Donald Trump, it can be discouraging for those of us who take pride in the rich legacy and colorful history of thinkers on the Right to be associated with such grifters, demagogues, and charlatans.

Trying to define conservatism is challenging and trying to compile a list of individuals who best exemplify conservatism is problematic. Yet this is becoming increasingly important in a world where "conservatism" is quickly being coopted by reactionary nationalist populists who have little to nothing in common with the namesake.

In this episode Saving Elephants host Josh Lewis offers his list of conservative thinkers well worthy of your time and attention.

Disclaimer

This list is imperfect and incomplete. If I were to revisit the list next year or possibly even next week, I'm sure there are plenty of names I'd believe should supplant the names here. Some of these individuals may even be uncomfortable with the label "conservative", though they all share aspects of the broader conservative worldview. The names below are not listed in order of preference or importance, but they are all insightful and noteworthy.

The fifty individuals discussed in this episode are noted below. If you'd like to learn more about each one you can check out the original blog post of Fifty Conservative Thinkers for a brief bio and links.

Josh's (Incomplete) List of Fifty Conservative Thinkers Worth Your Time

Edmund Burke

Milton Friedman

Wilhelm Röpke

David Bahnsen

F.A. Hayek

John Adams

Frederick Douglass

Thomas Sowell

James Madison

Barry Goldwater

Ronald Reagan

Bradley J. Birzer

Russell Kirk

Matthew Continetti

David French

Gertrude Himmelfarb

George Nash

Stephen J. Tonsor

Roger Scruton

Jacques Ellul

Whittaker Chambers

Michael Oakeshott

Eric Voegelin

Timothy Carney

C.S. Lewis

G.K. Chesterton

Jonah Goldberg

Wendell Berry

T.S. Eliot

Ross Douthat

Mary Eberstadt

1. Stanton Evans

Irving Kristol

George Will

William F. Buckley

Kristen Soltis Anderson

Robert Nisbet

Carly Fiorina

Arthur Brooks

Marian Tupy

Charles Marohn

Patrick Deneen

Harry Jaffa

Walter Williams

Frank S. Meyer

Alexis de Tocqueville

Lord Acton

Leo Stauss

Willmoore Kendall

Yuval Levin